Peer Edit: RBY Jynx

Jackal

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http://www.smogon.com:81/rb/pokemon/jynx

This article has recently been redone. The problem here is the article may be too in-depth. The information is all there, but maybe it could be delivered more effectively.

This is where you come in. This is a thread to nitpick at this article with suggested changes to make it read easier and be more effective. We are looking for an outside perspective on someone reading the article for the first time, and trying to make this the best it can be.

So post away changes to make this read easier!
 

Vineon

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Not commenting on the read but the article itself,

I really hate mimic on almost anything in the main proposed set. Jynx included.

if you want jynx to stall non-surfing starmies, alakazams & chanseys, it could rest, it doesnt need to rely on Mimic to get recover, which wont even help it beat them anyway.

If you want to have a chance to paralyse, you are much better off with bslam, rather than try to mimic twave.

and Tbolt will not grant it the ability to beat zam or chansey.

I'd definitely prefer body slam on the main set, with mimic in the other options.
 
Nitpick:

"You do want to use Psychic if you are trying to get an opponent's special to fall, since Psychic has a 30% chance to make this happen."

To me, this doesn't sound right. I think that it should be changed to:

"You might consider using Psychic when aiming to lower your opponent's special stat, since Psychic has a 30% chance to allow this to happen."

Something along the lines of that.
 

chaos

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Jynx is the fastest pokemon with at least a 75% accurate sleep move in the game. It also has the defenses of a package of frozen fish sticks--that is to say, not much at all. Unfortunately for Jynx, she is also slower than Tauros and Persian. However, Jynx makes a reliable starter, especially since so many people lead with Exeggutor, which takes over 60% damage from Blizzard. You also ought to remember that Blizzard is 90% in RBY, and a frozen pokemon never thaws in RBY, so this makes Blizzard very powerful.

This paragraph starts off strong, but I feel like the sentences could be rearranged a little bit. "Unfortunately for Jynx, she is also slower than Tauros and Persian" seems a bit out of place... like someone had an idea, and then interjected this sentence in the middle of it. Perhaps join the part at the end which talks about Jynx's ability as a starter with the idea at the beginning of this sentence? IE, Jynx is the fastest pokemon with sleep blah blah because of this it makes a great starter since it can sleep and is faster than Eggy and eggy is weak to blizzard etc. From there you can discuss Jynx's defensive problems and its inability to take hits from Tauros and Persian who are faster than it.

You do not necessarily want to use Lovely Kiss on their starter, because they might switch to something that is less useful to put to sleep, but if you are not comfortable making that prediction, then just use it on the first turn. A likely switch in after this is Starmie, and you can make great use of three of Starmie's four likely attacks if you use Mimic - Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave and Recover.

To me, this reads as if we should NEVER use Lovely Kiss on the starter... needs to be reworded a tad to be a bit more neutral and explain what can happen in both situations. The Starmie bit is helpful.

Psychic from Jynx prevents, among other things, a pokemon like Gengar from safely switching in and putting Jynx to sleep. However, remember that if you keep Jynx in against a starter Gengar, there is a 60% probability your Jynx will be put to sleep. The only way you will kill Gengar is with a CH, although Jynx has a high enough speed to have a fairly good chance for a CH in RBY. Jynx will, in most situations, do the most damage with Blizzard, so there is not often a good reason to use Psychic. It has slightly better accuracy, but after taking STAB into account, Jynx will average 162 power from Blizzard and 135 power from Psychic. You do want to use Psychic if you are trying to get an opponent's special to fall, since Psychic has a 30% chance to make this happen.

Pokemon should be capitalized and with the e accent, but I can mass fix that with a bot so don't worry about it. This paragraph seems to start off talking about Gengar, so maybe introduce Gengar first and then mention how Psychic can keep it from switching in and etc? I think it's unnecessary to mention the 30% chance on Psychic.

P.S. I agree with Body Slam over Mimic... Mimic sucks.
 

chaos

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Nitpick:

"You do want to use Psychic if you are trying to get an opponent's special to fall, since Psychic has a 30% chance to make this happen."

To me, this doesn't sound right. I think that it should be changed to:

"You might consider using Psychic when aiming to lower your opponent's special stat, since Psychic has a 30% chance to allow this to happen."

Something along the lines of that.
I feel like this shouldn't be mentioned at all. If you want to discuss how a Special fall can work to your advantage in a sticky situation, sure, whatever. However, the Psychic page will say that it lowers Special with a 30% chance. No need to be redundant.
 
I feel like this shouldn't be mentioned at all. If you want to discuss how a Special fall can work to your advantage in a sticky situation, sure, whatever. However, the Psychic page will say that it lowers Special with a 30% chance. No need to be redundant.
Well the part I was fixing was the grammar ("You do want..." sounded strange), but I guess it does make sense to exclude the sentence altogether.
 

evan

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Jynx is the fastest pokemon with at least a 75% accurate sleep move in the game. It also has the defenses of a package of frozen fish stick — that is to say, not much at all. Unfortunately for Jynx, she is also slower than Tauros and Persian. However, Jynx makes a reliable starter, especially since so many people lead with Exeggutor, which takes over 60% damage from Blizzard. You also ought to remember that Blizzard is 90% in RBY, and a frozen pokemon never thaws in RBY, so this makes Blizzard very powerful.

I agree with chaos here and wish I had been smart enough to make this change on my own. Saying something like "Jynx is best used as a lead. It/she is the fastest Pokemon at least a 75% accurate sleep move and scares off the most common sleep lead, Exeggutor, who is slower than Jynx and weak to Blizzard. Unfortunately for Jynx, it/she has very weak defenses (I suppose you could do frozen fish if you like) and is slower than Pokemon like Tauros and Persian who are also common leads." The "Blizzard is powerful in RBY!" can be excised completely as it should be common knowledge and, if not, I'm sure there's going to be some other place where they can look if they want to know why Blizzard is on these sets.

You do not necessarily want to use Lovely Kiss on their starter because they might switch to something that is less useful to put to sleep, but if you are not comfortable making that prediction, then just use it on the first turn. A likely switch in after this is Starmie, and you can make great use of three of Starmie's four likely attacks if you use Mimic — Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave and Recover.

I don't think this is saying not to use Lovely Kiss first move at all. Though I suppose it could be more balanced. "You do not necessarily want to use Lovely Kiss on their starter because they are likely to switch to something less useful to absorb sleep; however, if you can make a good prediction, you can end up with a potential threat immobilized right from the start, and, even if you get it wrong, it's always better to have one pokemon asleep than none in almost all cases."

With regards to Mimic, I don't know near enough about RBY to know just how useful it is. It's honestly quite baffling seeing it popping up over and over again. In terms of readability I would just clarify that Starmie is a likely switch-in after sleep because right now it's kinda vague.


Psychic from Jynx prevents, among other things, a pokemon like Gengar from safely switching in and putting Jynx to sleep. However, remember that if you keep Jynx in against a starter Gengar, there is a 60% probability your Jynx will be put to sleep. The only way you will kill Gengar is with a CH, although Jynx has a high enough speed to have a fairly good chance for a CH in RBY. In most situations, however, Jynx will do the most damage with Blizzard, so there are only a few reasons to use Psychic. It has slightly better accuracy, but, after taking STAB into account, Jynx will average 162 power from Blizzard and 135 power from Psychic. So probably the only times you'll want to use Psychic are when you are trying to force an opponent's special to fall.

I made a few changes to this paragraph already. I mostly just edited the second half of the paragraph. The first part seems to be okay. The CH sentence seems kind of awkward. Maybe something like, "The only way Jynx will kill Gengar, however, is if it/she gets lucky with a CH, which is not out of the question given its/her CH rate. If Jynx does not pull this off, then it/she is at risk of being put to sleep by Gengar's Hypnosis." Kinda melds two of those sentences together. Or actually, I think I just misread this and it's talking about a straight up Jynx v. Gengar lead battle. At which point it would have to worded differently.

[Other Options]
Body Slam can catch Starmie on the switch with Paralysis; however, do not expect to do ANY damage with it. Counter is an underrated option on Jynx, and it certainly can be useful. Counter can kill Tauros when he does not Critical Hit, as a Countered Body Slam will deal 93% minimum to Tauros, but do not expect to live through a Hyper Beam. If Snorlax is going to Body Slam Jynx, and it has already switched into a Blizzard for 30-33% damage, then Counter is most likely going to KO it. Of course, if either Tauros or Snorlax were to CH, they would KO you, and if you were to be paralyzed, you run the risk of losing Jynx without doing any damage, or leaving her crippled for another pokémon to come in and finish her off.

Did some minor grammar/readability stuff here. Most notably in the Snorlax section. It still sounds kinda awkward to me, though. Oh I also threw in a semi-colon. Moved how "counter is underrated" to the start of the section on Counter. I do have some questions about the inclusion of Counter, though. Why even mention Body Slam calcs when Tauros can KO with Hyper Beam? Why wouldn't it use Hyper Beam? Then it's weird because Tauros shows up again. So i moved that to the main section of Tauros countering. Also messed with some stuff in the end of the paragraph.

Rest is also a good option. Jynx can pull off a Rest against an unsuspecting Chansey, which cannot do any significant damage besides Seismic Toss, or Exeggutor, which cannot do much more than Psychic or Double-Edge Jynx, and cannot stay in against Jynx upon awakening. It is highly unlikely that Exeggutor would use Explosion on Jynx, but it is also unlikely that it will stay in and let you Blizzard it.

I think this paragraph is pretty fixed up. Not sure what the second half of the last sentence is going for. It feels like it's making a bridge to some conclusion that never appears.

[Opinion]
Jynx is a quick pokemon that can surprise people if played properly but is ultimately fairly fragile. Her STAB Blizzard coming from her decent special is a powerful tool. You'll probably want to lead with Jynx, as you can't switch her into much of anything except Psychic, Ice Beam, or Blizzard. If you can keep your Jynx far away from Normal pokémon and Starmie/Slowbro, you will probably be alright. This is a pokemon where practice and experience are needed more than other standards to properly execute.

The STAB Blizzard sentence bothers me a lot. Maybe merging it into the first sentence? "Jynx is a quick Pokemon that can surprise people with a powerful STAB Blizzard if played properly..." Tried to make the practice sentence clearer.

[Counters]
Starmie can paralyze Jynx, take not very effective damage from Blizzard and Psychic, and do neutral damage to Jynx with Thunderbolt. However, if your opponent's Jynx manages to Mimic Thunder Wave or Thunderbolt when Starmie switches in, you might reconsider staying in. Alakazam, likewise can paralyze Jynx, and resists Psychic if it manages to switch in on that. It does take somewhat significant damage from Blizzard, but it can still give Jynx problems. Slowbro can switch in, get Amnesia up, and take not very effective damage from both Blizzard and Psychic. Even if Jynx manages to Mimic Amnesia, Slowbro completely destroys it. Chansey, although it hates the chance of being frozen, takes almost no damage from Jynx's moves, while doing plenty of damage to any Jynx without Rest. Tauros and Snorlax, although potentially getting greatly damaged against a full health Jynx that uses Counter, will destroy any Jynx without it or if the attack scores a Critical Hit. Tauros and Snorlax can both also use Earthquake to test for Counter.

Didn't mess too much with this. Personal preference, in the counters section they always look kinda wall of texty. But I understand separating by Pokemon leaves it looking kinda sad and too spread out. Any ideas? I know at least the Snorlax/Tauros part can be separated intoa new paragraph and look okay.
 
The frozen fish sticks was just leftover from the past article, and I did not edit it out because I always feel kind of bad about undoing someone else's past work, so that could certainly go.

I agree that Starmie being a common switch in after sleep is common, because as is it sounds as if Starmie might just switch turn one.

The end of the Exeggutor not exploding sentence, I probably should have just said 'so expect Exeggutor to always switch out, if something on your team is already asleep.'

As far as counters go, I completely forgot about Persian! So grouping Persian and Tauros and Snorlax together is probably a great idea.
 
Apart from gender inconsistency in most part of the article, there was a couple of minor issues I wanted to point out in the Counters section:

Even if Jynx manages to Mimic Amnesia, Slowbro completely destroys it.
This part seemed as though it could use some more explanation. But if the consensus is in favor of dropping Mimic over Body Slam, then this can be ignored.

Tauros and Snorlax can both also use Earthquake to test for Counter.
The tone makes this part seem a bit out of place in the counters section for Jynx. The Counters section usually lists all those pokemon that can pose a threat to the pokemon in question, so it seems somewhat odd to see a description of how Snorlax and Tauros could prevent getting near-KOed by counter.
 

chaos

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Agreeing with ryubahamut on the Counter issue. In my opinion, all that should be said about Tauros is that Hyper Beam KOs Jynx. Anything else is out of place since Tauros isn't actually a tried and true _counter_ to Jynx; I wouldn't switch it in on any of Jynx's moves. Persian shouldn't be listed at all.
 

JMC

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if you are going to talk about Tauros' KO'ing Jynx, you may want to be certain that it's only a slight possibility, since max damage from Hyper Beam is only 337, and Jynx does have 333 HP at 100%. Minimum damage hits at around 85.8% damage, so Jynx stands a decent chance of surviving Tauros.

Unless, of course, you are against Undone and his tauros ch body slams you =[.
 
Alright, I am editing in a lot of the changes, especially the ones you and BM suggested. If Jackal wants to take a look at it again after that, then of course he can do so!

EDIT: I edited every section of the analysis, and the only one that probably still needs work is 'Other Options,' which is where I was unsure of what to take out (although I did add what Jackal just stated about Hyper Beam)
 

Hipmonlee

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I dunno what the standard set is now, but bodyslam sucks. Counter really does stand out as being significantly more useful than the other possibilities (take a normal hit, lovely kiss, then counter on the switch).

Have a nice day.
 

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