Other OU Type Analysis Project: Week 4: Flying-type

[trc]

APPROVED BY HAUNTER AND SUBJECT 18

Hey guys, this is OU's Type Analysis Project! The aim of this project is to discuss and evaluate information regarding metagame trends, categorised into 18 weeks for the corresponding 18 types. After 18 weeks are over, we'll look back at the previous week of the upcoming type and compare the Pokemon of that type in terms of how they play in the metagame, what new trends have arisen, and what new sets they're commonly seen running.

Things I'd like people to discuss (and I'd like to see at least one, preferably more of these ideas featured in each post) are:

• What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
• What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
• What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
• What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
• What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?
• What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?
• What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
• How do these Pokemon compare to each other in their respective roles?
• How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?

Note that I prefer for emphasis to be put on comparisons, not only between Pokemon but also between the stages of a metagame in which a Pokemon was used. How is it used now? What changed?

Week 4's type is the Flying-type:
no sprites :((( talonflame, pinsir, thundurus, landorus, charizard y, gyarados, dragonite, landorus-t, mandibuzz, gliscor, skarmory, zapdos, tornadus-t, aerodactyl, staraptor, togekiss, thundurus-t, salamence, hawlucha, mantine, moltres.

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon).

Things to to talk about:

• Current popularity of BirdSpam
• What does Mantine wall?
• Why are people running Specially Defensive Gliscor now?
• What answers to Landorus are there on stall?
• What can Mega Aerodactyl setup on and can it sweep common metagame threats?
• What stops Hawlucha from being effective?
• Are there any uses of Thundurus-T over Thundurus?

 

[Alter]

Overloading on Flying-type attacks ("bird spam") has been a pretty interesting concept this gen. As we could see with Tornadus-T's Hurricane in BW2, Flying is a surprisingly good offensive typing. The only types that resist it are generally easily dealt with by supplementing moves such as Earthquake and Superpower. Particularly potent examples of good Pokemon that are seen on bird spam teams are Mega Pinsir (which can be a massive problem when it gets to +2 and its checks/counters are weakened) and Talonflame (packing priority brave bird). Even if these Pokemon don't accomplish an all-out sweep, they will still massively harm crucial defensive Pokemon so that the other ones can. This can very much be seen through Staraptor's use in the OU metagame. At first glance, this Pokemon seems like a poor man's Talonflame. However, it actually performs a very consistent role as an enabler; that is, staraptor harms talonflame's checks and counters to the extent of which the latter can clean up with much more ease. Additionally, staraptor can lure in and remove checks to Talonflame such as Heatran, Rotom-W, and Tyranitar thanks to its slightly differing movepool (+double edge, +close combat).

 

[Ajwf]

Flying types generally have two jobs on a stall team: Take pinsir mega or take landorus. These two are both incredibly powerful so a flying type is absolutely pivotal in that respects. The checks outside of flying types for either are also very limited (aggro for pinsir, lati/chansey shaky for lando). Because of this, stall can have difficulty using mandibuzz (at least the PDefensive set) and Zapdos... Even though zapdos can theoretically do either, it is just so close to faltering on both.

Skarmory this gen is not only "nice" in the skarmbliss core but pivotal because of the terrible pinsir-mega. With Aerodactyl-mega and to a very less extent, Zapdos, he is part of a very elite group that can counter Pinsir and live.

AV Tornadus and RestTalk Mantine/Gyara find themselves as the most common Landorus counters. I guess CBBNite is considered a decent check to Landorus but there is potential for HP Ice. These three, then, are the most solid counters outside levitating psychics, which are beaten by knock off.

Mantine/Gyara, CBBNite, Moltres, and Aero-mega are regarded as pretty good ZardY counters (although Moltres should check without rocks and Aero kinda should check as well). While dragons are more regarded for this job, these flying types are generally not a bad substitute and can even be considered more 'solid' by the premise of Dragon Pulse.

Lastly, Gliscor gets individual mention as one of two mons to flat out counter mixed mega chomp (p2 being the other). Gliscor also is hell for many balanced teams and has a nasty SpDef set while also countering HeraMega and checking ZardX. He's a versatile mon this gen, but I've yet to figure out exactly what he does best... Most success with the taunt spdef set so far.


So... I guess you need a flying type to counter a flying type, eh?

 

[diablolo]

I have 2 questions that may or may not worth discussion.

1. Should we separate the real flying (use flying attack as main way to damage) and pseudo-flying (flying type with no real flying stab e.g. Gyarado, dragonite, etc) for further analysis ?

2. Could we call flying the best secondary type of all time? As we know that up until now there is only 2 pure flying pokemon (Tornadus and "wait-for-it" tornadus-t (meh)). However, for some reason, I think that almost anything+flying is guarantee to be good combination (except may be bug and ice - -")

Anyway, I think for the defensive side, I think flying is very underrated. Sure, stealth rock (and other rock move) hurt their defensive capability. The immune to ground and fighting resistance is very nice though. Skarm and mandibuzz is very potent wall for me.

 

[StairFall]

Flying's an extremely under rated offensive type that is now becoming much more widely used thanks to the emergence of pokemon like Mpinsir and Talonflame. Last generation the main abuser of the type was Tornadus, with powerful life orb or specs hurricanes.

Flying's best qualities last gen came from the fact that the dominance of dragons and rain meant that most cores were occupied with having at least 2 steels, usually ferrothorn, and rock types were almost unheard of save for tyranitar and terrakion (who is neutral to flying anyway). Hakf the steel types (ferrothorn, forretress, scizor, and lucario) were neutral to flying, and really left skarmory and Jirachi as the only steels to take flying attacks (lol metagross). Rotom-W and Tyranitar were the only other really popular defensive resists, as Thundurus-T certainly wasn't going to be walling hurricanes. I would see teams on the ladder fifth gen without a single flying resist, but also not a single flying weakness.

6th gen we got even more powerful abusers as mentioned above. It's only natural that it became an even stronger move type. Especially since either ground or fighting pairs beautifully with it. Defensively it's a double edged sword, its valuable ground and fighting resists counteracted by its rock weakness, and its not a great coverage option, really only being good with stab power backing it.

 

[Magis4Life]

One very underrated flying spammer in OU is Staraptor. Although mostly overshadowed by Talonflame(priority brave bird is just too good), one of Staraptor's niches in the metagame lies in forming a dual flying spam core with Talonflame, as Staraptor has enough power and coverage to actually weaken Talonflame's checks/counters. With the appropiate move, Staraptor can actually severely weaken, if not OHKO, Zapdos, Rotom-W, Raikou, Heatran, Tyranitar, etc. This is due to the fact that Staraptor is much more powerful than Talonflame possessing a massive base 120 attack stat, a solid ability in reckless that further boosts brave bird among other moves, and access to an excellent coverage move in close combat. However, Staraptor isn't all that fast, possesses horrific frailty that prevents it from switching into practically anything and is easily picked off by priority, and is very one-dimensional in nature and generally spams brave bird and dies. Still, it is one pokemon that represents the brute power flying spam can achieve.

Some damage calcs against flying spam checks( from CB Jolly Staraptor) :
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 216 Def Rotom-W: 259-306 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 267-315 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 158-186 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 352-416 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 117-138 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 500-592 (123.7 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 172-204 (45 - 53.4%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 173-204 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Staraptor is best used as a wallbreaker for Talonflame (and even Mega Pinsir, forming a triple flying spam offensive core) to weaken each other's checks. Talonflame, or Mega Pinsir, can then be used as a cleaner late game. Another interesting niche Staraptor has is in final gambit, which can be used to soften Skarmory for Talonflame and/or Pinsir. Choice scarf Staraptor can also be used to function as a late game cleaner (with cb Talonflame partnering as late game cleaners against offensive teams as well and even wallbreaking instead), as one thing scarf Staraptor has over Talonflame is surprise factor and more brute power as well as coverage against offensive teams that can usually take on Talonflame's assault. Scarf Staraptor is not as good as cb Staraptor, but has a niche as a late game cleaner alongside Talonflame nonetheless.

 

[ssjjynx]

"What answers to Landorus are there on stall?"
Landorus-T: Gliscor handles this lando fairly well. Protect will allow the toxic orb to activate before it gets knocked off, and as long as the stone edge from lando doesn't crit, gliscor will be able to toxic it, and then stall it out (assuming it is a physically defensive Gliscor).

Landorus-I: Blissey, Chansey, Alomola, Heatran (if lando doesn't have focus blast), M-Venusaur (if lando doesn't have psychic), Slowking/bro, Zapdos, and specially defensive hippo.

Did I cover everything?

 

[Ajwf]

• What does Mantine wall?

Keldeo, Landorus, CharizardY... However, outside of landorus, it can be hard pressed to kill them. Defensively, it can stop quagsire if it runs the toxic/resttalk set (which I believe is the most common). It is a very specialized special wall but unfortunately will lose to the two most common SpA (Aegi and Thundy). Physically, I wouldn't want it to try and take much as it's basically worse than Slowking physically.

• Why are people running Specially Defensive Gliscor now?

Because honestly, I'm not sure physically defensive gliscor is that good. SpDef runs taunt and is more for balance/stall teams which it can absolutely destroy. Also remember that most stall teams choose from a pool of special attackers... (Just think about it: MVenu, Slowbro/Quag, Heatran, Amoongus, Zapdos....) and skarmory always hardwalled the original glisc set anyways.

• What answers to Landorus are there on stall?

Bird mons with high spdef and levitating psychics as long as you don't take on a knock off landorus. Other than that, a speedy revenge killer isn't necessarily a bad option.

 

[Clone]

"What answers to Landorus are there on stall?"
Landorus-T: Gliscor handles this lando fairly well. Protect will allow the toxic orb to activate before it gets knocked off, and as long as the stone edge from lando doesn't crit, gliscor will be able to toxic it, and then stall it out (assuming it is a physically defensive Gliscor).

Landorus-I: Blissey, Chansey, Alomola, Heatran (if lando doesn't have focus blast), M-Venusaur (if lando doesn't have psychic), Slowking/bro, Zapdos, and specially defensive hippo.

Did I cover everything?

Heatran is murdered by Lando-Is Earth Power :I

 

[ssjjynx]

Heatran is murdered by Lando-Is Earth Power :I

I meant air balloon Heatran, forgot to mention that. I suppose the balloon could be popped, but until then Heatran becomes a 1-time check to both landos.

 

[Sidnv]

Landorus can also carry Knock Off to cripple Chansey, so you might want to mention that as a caveat in your post.

Also, Earth Power 2HKO's (99.6 percent after Leftovers without Stealth Rock, and a decent chance even after Protect is accounted for) 252 HP/ 252 SpDef Slowbro so unless the Slowbro carries an Assault Vest (unlikely because Bro loves toxic and recovery), it can't switch into Landorus. Same for Alomomola and Hippodown (although strangely, Sand doesn't seem to affect Showdown's calculator.)

SpDef Zapdos with HP Ice is a counter. Def Zapdos requires Special Attack investment to get the OHKO, otherwise Sludge Wave 3HKO's with a small chance of 2HKO (although you could Roost off damage and PP Stall.)

SpDef Gliscor can stall out Landorus.

Landorus could also run Calm Mind to make it even harder to take on for Stall.

Of course, with some prediction, all the pokemon you mentioned could hypothetically deal with Landorus but they do it with difficulty. It hurts that Earth Power is guaranteed to do more than 50% damage and hence you can't just PP stall it out with recovery.

 

[ssjjynx]

If landorus has Knock Off, CM, or the occasional SR, it means 1 (or more) less coverage move for it, allowing it to be dealt with by: latias if lando doesnt have HP ice, Blissey if lando doesnt have focus blast (although focus blast wouldnt do much anyway), and M-Venusaur if lamdo doesnt have Psychic.

Also if landorus (both of them) doesnt have Knock off it gets completely walled by Bronzong, which was a key part of stall in gen 5 but hasnt made much of an appearance this gen.

Oh, and Aegislash has been starting to appear on stall occasionally, so presuming that lando doesnt have knock off Air Balloon Aegi deals with it fairly well.

 

[Karxrida]

If landorus has Knock Off, CM, or the occasional SR, it means 1 (or more) less coverage move for it, allowing it to be dealt with by: latias if lando doesnt have HP ice, Blissey if lando doesnt have focus blast (although focus blast wouldnt do much anyway), and M-Venusaur if lamdo doesnt have Psychic.

Also if landorus (both of them) doesnt have Knock off it gets completely walled by Bronzong, which was a key part of stall in gen 5 but hasnt made much of an appearance this gen.

Oh, and Aegislash has been starting to appear on stall occasionally, so presuming that lando doesnt have knock off Air Balloon Aegi deals with it fairly well.

Lando-I has been known to run U-turn, which still fucks over Chansey by letting you bring in your Bisharp/Keldeo/whatever while also letting you switch to a Pursuit Trapper for the Latis, break any Air Balloons, and alleviating prediction since you force a fuck ton of switches anyway.

 

[ssjjynx]

As i said, running anything over the standard earth power, psychic, focus blast, Hp ice set opens a hole in landos coverage depending on which move you replace, forcing you to have other answers in your team for the pokemon that will wall lando as a result.

 

[Clone]

I meant air balloon Heatran, forgot to mention that. I suppose the balloon could be popped, but until then Heatran becomes a 1-time check to both landos.

Air Balloon Heatran isnt used on stall.

Anyways, havent seen much talk of Gyarados. I know Mega Gyarados isnt a flying type, but he still stems from it so technically speaking hes part-way flying. Anyways, DD MegaDos is a monster with Mold Breaker and Ice Fang and Earthquake as coverage moves. After a boost, they get the OHKOes on DNite and Scrotom-W respectively, thanks to the nullification of their abilities. Quags Unaware is completely ignored by Megados, and hes able to get a 2HKO after a boost. Not even Xard can get that without resorting to Outrage. So enough of that. Lets get into the base form of Gyarados.

First off, he has an excellent ability in Intimidate. This can act as a safety measure to a physical set up sweeper, or it can just outright neuter physical attackers entirely, which can force switches. Because of this, Gyarados gets many set up opportunities that other set up sweepers dream of. Additionally, outside of HP Electric Keldeo and Thundurus, very few special attackers can OHKO him thanks to an above average SpDef stat. I mentioned Keldeo and Thundurus specifically because it brings up the crippling weakness Gyarados has in the form of a 4x hit from electric attacks. This is thanks to the secondary flying typing that Gyarados sports. Outside of rock attacks, nothing hits Gyarados super effectively. This comes with key resistances to Steel and Bug (hai Scizor), as well as an immunity to ground attacks. This, stacked with Intimidate, allows lots of set up opportunities.

Many people say that regular Gyarados is shit and shouldnt be used without his Mega Stone. That may be true to a certain extent, but the drastic type change can play mind games with the opponent, similarly to Xard, that can allow an additional Dragon Dance, or allow you to wall non HP electric Keldeo. I mention Keldeo a lot because while hes a major threat to MegaDos when near full health, as the only thing he can do to Gyaras normal form is to fish for a burn with Scald, lest they mispredict with Secret Sword and are locked into a 3HKO at best. This goes for basically all Fighting and Bug (and Grass somewhat) types that threaten his Mega form, but cant touch his Normal form. The only drawback to this is that the 4x Electric weakness remains, as well as a Rock weakness, which correlates to Stealth Rock, which strips you of 25% of your health every time you switch in.

But yeah, thats pretty much it. Gyarados may not always keep his Flying type when battling, but hes still a top tier Flying type for sure.

 

[Karxrida]

As i said, running anything over the standard earth power, psychic, focus blast, Hp ice set opens a hole in landos coverage depending on which move you replace, forcing you to have other answers in your team for the pokemon that will wall lando as a result.

U-turn is meant to replace HP Ice and screws over all of your counters, many of which are checkmated by a Scarf Tyranitar (gotta love Pursuit).

 

[trc]

Landorus-I: Blissey, Chansey, Alomola, Heatran (if lando doesn't have focus blast), M-Venusaur (if lando doesn't have psychic), Slowking/bro, Zapdos, and specially defensive hippo.

Landorus = Landorus-I

Now for these checks / counters, assuming the most common set of Earth Power / Psychic / Focus Blast / Knock Off:

• Blissey loses its Leftovers and dies to two Focus Blasts next time it switches in.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 199-235 (30.5 - 36%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 286-338 (43.8 - 51.8%)
• Chansey loses its Eviolite and dies to two Focus Blasts next time it switches in.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 147-173 (22.8 - 26.9%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 341-403 (53.1 - 62.7%)
• Alomomola gets 2HKOed on the switch-in by Earth Power.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 312-368 (65 - 76.6%)
• Heatran gets OHKOed by Earth Power and OHKOed after Stealth Rock by Focus Blast if it is Air Balloon.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 707-842 (183.6 - 218.7%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 317-374 (82.3 - 97.1%)
    • 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• Mega Venusaur (both defensive and offensive) have a chance to be OHKOed by Psychic after Stealth Rock, and since neither outspeeds, they can't win if they have to switch-in on any other move.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 286-338 (78.5 - 92.8%)
    • 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 286-338 (79.6 - 94.1%)
    • 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• Slowbro can't switch in on any move or it will get KOed by Earth Power the following turn.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 300-355 (76.1 - 90.1%)
• Slowking can't switch into Landorus's STAB move without being KOed by Knock Off the following turn.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 265-315 (67.4 - 80.1%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 129-152 (32.8 - 38.6%)
• Zapdos is 2HKOed by Psychic after Stealth Rock.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos: 182-214 (47.3 - 55.7%)
• Hippowdon is 2HKOed by Landorus's STAB move.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Hippowdon: 261-308 (62.1 - 73.3%)

Yeah. Not really "counters".

 

[StairFall]

As i said, running anything over the standard earth power, psychic, focus blast, Hp ice set opens a hole in landos coverage depending on which move you replace, forcing you to have other answers in your team for the pokemon that will wall lando as a result.

Gravity-Lando's earth power hits Latias far harder than hp ice and also tears right through Skarmory, as well as causing them potentially double or more residual damage if you have spikes down. It also makes focus blast entirely accurate.

All this gravity thinking has for me brought to light how powerful ground is as an offensive type and how absolutely crucial ground immunity is to resisting powerful combinations of ground and other attacks. The two ground resists besides flying's ground immunity are grass and bug, which heavily overlap in terms of type match ups.

For instance, under gravity? ground and flying has absolutely perfect coverage, as does ground and fire. Ground and steel has nearly perfect coverage save for the ludicolo line and surskit, while ground and normal has perfect coverage save for treveneant, gourgheist, and shedinja. Flying's type immunity to ground is absolutely key to the defensive capabilities of most pokemon and keeping ground types in check. Yet ironically its weakness to rock, and by proxy stealth rock, often make levitating pokemon the superior choice to flying types in terms of defense.

 

[ssjjynx]

Never said they were counters, just that they would be able to deal with it, although from the looks of those calcs i was very much mistaken, my bad.

 

[Clone]

Landorus = Landorus-I

Now for these checks / counters, assuming the most common set of Earth Power / Psychic / Focus Blast / Knock Off:

• Blissey loses its Leftovers and dies to two Focus Blasts next time it switches in.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 199-235 (30.5 - 36%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 286-338 (43.8 - 51.8%)
• Chansey loses its Eviolite and dies to two Focus Blasts next time it switches in.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 147-173 (22.8 - 26.9%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 341-403 (53.1 - 62.7%)
• Alomomola gets 2HKOed on the switch-in by Earth Power.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 312-368 (65 - 76.6%)
• Heatran gets OHKOed by Earth Power and OHKOed after Stealth Rock by Focus Blast if it is Air Balloon.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 707-842 (183.6 - 218.7%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 317-374 (82.3 - 97.1%)
    • 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• Mega Venusaur (both defensive and offensive) have a chance to be OHKOed by Psychic after Stealth Rock, and since neither outspeeds, they can't win if they have to switch-in on any other move.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 286-338 (78.5 - 92.8%)
    • 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 286-338 (79.6 - 94.1%)
    • 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• Slowbro can't switch in on any move or it will get KOed by Earth Power the following turn.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 300-355 (76.1 - 90.1%)
• Slowking can't switch into Landorus's STAB move without being KOed by Knock Off the following turn.
  • 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 265-315 (67.4 - 80.1%)
    
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 129-152 (32.8 - 38.6%)
• Zapdos is 2HKOed by Psychic after Stealth Rock.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos: 182-214 (47.3 - 55.7%)
• Hippowdon is 2HKOed by Landorus's STAB move.
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Hippowdon: 261-308 (62.1 - 73.3%)

Yeah. Not really "counters".

Not sure if it was intentional or not, but those calcs are with a SpAtk boosting nature. Most Landos (as far as I know) are Timid to outspeed base 100s and tie with opposing Landos.

Disclaimer: I still get the point youre making and I agree with it.

 

[trc]

Oops, I meant to give it Naive but I gave it Rash =/

There shouldn't be much difference, and in the few cases where it may matter like Chansey, prior damage is almost a given, I just gave the foes the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, they still pan out the same in most situations.

 

[Sidnv]

So here's a question. Does Stall have viable hard counters to Landorus with the given set? It seems to be almost impossible to deal with.

 

[ssjjynx]

Specially Defensive Skarmory?

 

[Clone]

Specially Defensive Skarmory?

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 183-216 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Nope.

 

[ssjjynx]

Dayum. Guess that explains why landorus-I was banned to Ubers last Gen, it completely destroys stall.