Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking: Sets (Discussing B Ranks)

[boltsandbombers]

Have anyone consider the possible role of serperior as a stall breaker with Taunt and Synthesis/Giga Drain plus Leaf Storm and Your hidden power of choice

I feel like Serp would rather have 4 attacks over taunt and synthesis, or even 3 attacks and glare. It's much better as a hole puncher with its leaf storms than trying to break stall.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Since the discussion is mostly centered on B rank mons, does anyone have any experience with CritDra/ any opinion on where it should be ranked? It sounds like a viable and really cool idea, but I cant really say anything concerning its effectiveness since I'm yet to try it out myself. The only kingdra set that has a ranking was mixed rain wallbreaker, I think.

 

[quagback2qc]

In my opinion, Scizor's CB set should be ranked much higher. With the ascent of fairies in the meta, it becomes way too valuable to leave aside. CB U-turn is almost a 2HKO on Mega Slowbro!
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Anyway, scizor's CB set offers all sorts of advantages, such as being able to fire off priority nukes with technician that as priority attacks, are second to talonflame in power. On top of that, for predicting switches, it gets Superpower to stop Mag from trapping it by killing it on the switch (first turn only obv) and can also kill heatran on the switch.
It also gets really good coverage in pursuit and knock off, with pursuit being the best way to kill annoying psychics.

Scizor also has a great matchup against many common leads, like Garchomp (2HKOed), Terrakion (OHKOed), Mamo (OHKOed) and is the most reliable stop to mega diancie.

 

[blinkie]

In my opinion, Scizor's CB set should be ranked much higher. With the ascent of fairies in the meta, it becomes way too valuable to leave aside. CB U-turn is almost a 2HKO on Mega Slowbro!
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Anyway, scizor's CB set offers all sorts of advantages, such as being able to fire off priority nukes with technician that as priority attacks, are second to talonflame in power. On top of that, for predicting switches, it gets Superpower to stop Mag from trapping it by killing it on the switch (first turn only obv) and can also kill heatran on the switch.
It also gets really good coverage in pursuit and knock off, with pursuit being the best way to kill annoying psychics.

Scizor also has a great matchup against many common leads, like Garchomp (2HKOed), Terrakion (OHKOed), Mamo (OHKOed) and is the most reliable stop to mega diancie.

Just saying but most of the leads you mentioned aren't exactly that popular due to Mega Sableye, Azelf is the suicide lead I see most of the time.
Also being Choice Locked into the wrong move is a really bad thing, like Superpower is just a horrible move to be locked into in general, also Bullet Punch can make you fodder for stuff like Megagross

 

[firehusky]

Just want to say that bullet punch isn't exactly megagross fodder since mega gross is still walled by you. It takes about 2-4 hits for mega metagross to faint scizor, and if mega metagross switched in on the bullet punch, it'll have to take 3 or 4 bullet punches.
Each bullet punch ranges from 19.9-22.2%, meaning that if megagross took 3 hits, it would do 59.7-66.6%, which is a lot.
so yeah tldr bullet punch isn't exactly fodder for mega gross.

 

[MANNAT]

For metagross, can you add the zen headbutt/meteor mash/hammer arm/grass knot set as one of the S-rank sets because it is the most versatile threat and it can OHKO or 2HKO some of the most common sets in the tier.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

For metagross, can you add the zen headbutt/meteor mash/hammer arm/grass knot set as one of the S-rank sets because it is the most versatile threat and it can OHKO or 2HKO some of the most common sets in the tier.

While the coverage is awesome, I feel like the speed drop of hammer arm is too significant to ignore in that it prevents you from sweeping like the other sets can. That's just my opinion though- I don't have personal experience with using it.

Obviously the intent is more of a wallbreaker, but other sets can do that too.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

While the coverage is awesome, I feel like the speed drop of hammer arm is too significant to ignore in that it prevents you from sweeping like the other sets can. That's just my opinion though- I don't have personal experience with using it.

Obviously the intent is more of a wallbreaker, but other sets can do that too.

Hammer Arm actually lets Metagross beat Skarmory and Mandibuzz by outslowing them and nailing them for SE damage when they roost, at least in theory.

 

[firehusky]

Hammer Arm actually lets Metagross beat Skarmory and Mandibuzz by outslowing them and nailing them for SE damage when they roost, at least in theory.

Only works if Skarmory is not carrying counter. Also, mandibuzz's foul play does a lot.

 

[bludz]

While the coverage is awesome, I feel like the speed drop of hammer arm is too significant to ignore in that it prevents you from sweeping like the other sets can. That's just my opinion though- I don't have personal experience with using it.

Obviously the intent is more of a wallbreaker, but other sets can do that too.

Metagross is bulky enough that it's not too much of a problem to switch out after a Hammer Arm since you should be at enough HP to resume a sweep later. It's one of the things that many people consider OP about Metagross: it can wallbreak for itself and clean up later.

Also Hammer Arm gets a Tough Claws boost making it significantly stronger than Earthquake, and although it's less accurate, fewer things are immune to it and can switch in for free.

BTW also agreeing with firehusky -- you don't usually want to stay in on Mandibuzz.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

BTW also agreeing with firehusky -- you don't usually want to stay in on Mandibuzz.

Yeah, I did the calcs for a different thread (and my own use) and foul play at least 2hkos all variants that people run and ohko's hasty ones, while Megagross can't 2hko standard Mandi in return with ice punch, iirc.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Yeah, I did the calcs for a different thread (and my own use) and foul play at least 2hkos all variants that people run and ohko's hasty ones, while Megagross can't 2hko standard Mandi in return with ice punch, iirc.

No one runs hasty Metagross and Ice Punch 2HKOs after rocks, but yeah Foul Play does a hell of a lot so unless you can kill Mandi with Ice Punch you shouldn't stay in on it.

 

[firehusky]

No one runs hasty Metagross and Ice Punch 2HKOs after rocks, but yeah Foul Play does a hell of a lot so unless you can kill Mandi with Ice Punch you shouldn't stay in on it.

Hasty Metagross is so that you can run Grass Knot on it, without weakening it's power with jolly.

 

[Karxrida]

Hasty Metagross is so that you can run Grass Knot on it, without weakening it's power with jolly.

You run Naive, not Hasty. Giving itemless Bisharp a chance to OHKO you is not worth it.

Not that it matters since you still get the 2HKOs/OHKOs you need to with Jolly.

 

[boltsandbombers]

You run Naive, not Hasty. Giving itemless Bisharp a chance to OHKO you is not worth it.

Not that it matters since you still get the 2HKOs/OHKOs you need to with Jolly.

I beg to differ.

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Both Hasty and Naive have merits, Hasty means you take less from attacks from the likes of Lati@s, Mega Gardevoir, Clefable, etc, while Naive has the Negative that you stated.

Edit: @ below max max spdef hippo isnt a thing but that helps prove the point.

 

[firehusky]

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 192-226 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 212-250 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I don't think it's wise to stay in against bisharp, regardless if you can catch it and hammer arm on the switch, that's cool, but if you mispredict you have to deal with the speed drop, which is lame.

Hammer Arm actually lets Metagross beat Skarmory and Mandibuzz by outslowing them and nailing them for SE damage when they roost, at least in theory.

I didn't notice this before, but it's an interesting point. I still don't love hammer arm, despite its pluses, but I guess that is just one more thing that makes it worth while. I'd say it's enough to justify s rank though, if it wasn't already added.

Also I'm on mobile, so sorry if im missing something.

 

[heritage]

I'll be taking this over with Valmanway's permission. Will have new thread up soon. You can lock this AM