Other ORAS OU Research Thread

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Approved by AM
Original slacked off by nova


still in need for a good banner,,,,,

This is the OU Research Thread for ORAS! Welcome and this thread is aimed to find the potential of Pokemon and analyzing them! For each slate of Pokemon, we will have 2 stages: sign-up and ladder, then analysis stage. You have around a week to work through your chosen Pokemon, and then I will declare the analysis stage. After most people have posted what they believe about a Pokemon, then we will start a new slate! Just keep the following in mind:

Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!

- Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
- Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
- Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

Remember to use raw evidence during analysis stage, and don't tell us, show us!

A Hall of Fame has been implemented for quality posts, and post(s) will be chosen each slate!

This week's Pokemon!

Slowking

Thundurus-T

Mega Alakazam

How useful are these Pokemon in ORAS OU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please sign up and during analysis period, discuss them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning.

Research Subject(s):
Ladder Account:

Have Fun!

You may discuss during sign-ups, but don't theorymon too much. Wait until analysis period to provide good information.

 

[Vert]

reserved

 

[-altercation-]

Research Creature(s): Volcarona, Mega Gyarados
Ladder Account: solar overpowered

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Research Subject(s): volcarona
Ladder Account: view from nowhere

from past experiences, volcarona is scary if you don't have the proper tools to scare it off (birdspam, chansey). it didn't see much use in xy ou (even though defog made it easy as balls to remove hazards) thanks to the prevalence of its checks / counters (see: smogonbird, m-pinsir, heatran, dragonite), but oras changed that thanks to the addition of mega diancie, which deals w/ most of volcarona's problems and reflects sr, and the decline of many of its top counters (e.g. av azu, the aforementioned checks / counters). adding further to this, volcarona is one of the few ou pokemon that scarf keldeo and landoge (two of ou's most prominent revenge killers) cannot reliably revenge kill. with passho berry, keldeo gives volc one more turn to set up a quiver dance before going to town, and volcarona's natural speed ensures that landoge cannot outrun it after getting one quiver dance off. yea, the 4x sr weak sucks, but m-diancie and other teammates make this weakness more bearable. i'll post more on volc later.

 

[AM]

Research subject: Volcarona, M-Gyarados
Ladder account: Er, I don't ladder much I usually just play against people :s. I'll edit this later if I do put a ladder account.

I'm just posting some thoughts here for reference point that I want to try out and have been thinking about. Volcarona I'm going to try out a Tailwind / 3 attacks set with Life Orb or a berry resist as I've been meaning to see if it has any merits with the luxury of doubling the speed and perhaps can provide some added team utility instead of being a stand alone threat. Will-O-Wisp Volcarona I'm going to try as well. I guess the question becomes the more optimal coverage moves dependent on the team.

I feel like M-Gyarados doesn't necessarily have too much variations but I feel like its role as a sweeper can be explored more towards facets as a stall-breaker or wall-breaker. Perhaps a bulkier variant of 3 attacks / Taunt is something I'll be trying out soon.

Oh and I'll probably provide teams to see what partners are useful for the way the Pokemon is being utilize

 

[Sun King]

Research subjects: Volcarona, Serperior (nobody else is doing this, so I figured I might)
Ladder account: Idk here. I don't really ladder much, so I usually just use a keyboard spam alt for like 2 hours. I'll edit in whatever I use unless you need me to be on a designated alt…

Volcarona has an interesting move pool and an interesting stat distribution. I want to see if I can make a bulky WoW set work with Roost. Fiery Dance helps you boost and hit harder as an added bonus. It's not going to be a sweeper. Either I come up with something extremely gimmicky, or it's a set that is seriously overlooked in our meta. Should be fun. I'll also be collecting replays and information on the Quiver Dance sets, because I'll need a reference to what people normally expect from this thing.

Serperior…well it's starting to gain some traction now, but it's a seriously understated threat in the metagame. Depending on the set, you can dismantle pretty much any play style that's not prepared. I'm thinking I'll be using Glare on mine, because spreading Paralysis pretty much has no drawbacks, and I like messing with the low-ladder Gliscors (the ones that DON'T run Hyper Cutter).

I'll collect some good replays, and hopefully have something worth reading afterwords.

 

[Celticpride]

Research Subject(s): Serperior
Ladder Account: Regal is Better

I've been very interested in Serperior lately. I'm not sure exactly which direction I'll take it yet, but a Sub + Glare set or a Knock Off set could be interesting starting points. Might try out some of the more niche Hidden Powers as well, HP Ground and HP Rock might have some use to lure Tran and Talon respectively. It still has a "new car smell" so to speak, so this should be pretty fun.

 

[Vert]

GGamer AM Trinitrotoluene Celticpride Sun King

Discussion has begun!

People who have not signed up may join the discussion, but they may not start new topics for people to talk about - only people who signed up can.

 

[Sun King]

Okay, I think I've posted this like 3 times on Smogon but here goes. This is what I managed to come up with after about 2 hours on the ladder...

Meet Volcarona, the burn factory. This set plays a lot like a SubSeed set, only it has a much larger impact on the game (think Chesnaught, but with a long lasting impact and a more exploitable weakness)

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Timid Nature
EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/ 104 SpDef/20 Spe
-Fiery Dance
-Substitute
-Roost
-Will-o-Wisp

While entirely walled by Heatran, Fiery Dance is the only attack you really NEED. It has the really nice bonus of boosting your own power, and helping you overpower resists late game. The combination of Flame Body and Will-o-Wisp is really, REALLY effective in spreading burns. Flame Body is essentially a free Scald effect on any contact move, and WoW is great for crippling physical attackers. The real belle of the ball on this set, though, is Substitute. By Subbing on switches, you provide yourself an excellent opportunity to draw in the things that scare Volcarona out. This gives you an opportunity to burn cripple them via WoW. In my replays below, you'll see that Substitute is a large factor in the success I've had with this set.

Note: This set does not alleviate Volcarona's issues with Stealth Rocks. You are STILL going to need a Defogger in order to get the most out of this set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-213006778
So this first replay is actually the most recent one, but it's probably the best replay despite ending in a forfeit. Basically, Volcarona was able to spread a burn on Scizor via Flame Body and then lure and burn the opposing Terrakion (thanks to that nasty Sub WoW combo I talked about).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212965035
This replay shows how Volcarona can really wear down opposing Rotom-W with a little fortune and Fiery Dance. While it's not entirely reliable, you can pretty easily PP stall Hydro Pump with Substitute and Roost (iirc, Hydro does about 68% max). At turn 25, you see the aforementioned Sub WoW on a lured Landorus-Therian.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212969203
Basically just more of the above. Early on, I tried to Sub on the Raikou, but I couldn't get the move change before the turn happened. All that would have done was allowed me to WoW the Medicham rather than burn it with Flame Body. You can also see how Volcarona lures in the BD Azu and neuters it. Not the BEST replay, but it works in the context of this post.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-213586952
This set seriously gives Azumarill the middle finger; I love it. You can see in this game how easily you can switch in on Ferrothorns and set up a Substitute. This game, I happened to fall on the wrong side of the Fiery Dance coin flip against that Whimsicott and Talonflame, but that game could have gone really south for my opponent if I had managed to get +2 before the Talonflame got in. I had tried to save Volcarona for a last-ditch attempt to burn M-Lop, but fortunately for me, it was in Bullet Punch range. This is a bit higher on the suspect ladder than my other replays.

I'm aware that these three replays are low ladder replays; I haven't touched the suspect ladder, so I tried to save the replays that were against legitimate teams. I think that the EV spread could possibly be optimized to tank as much of the relevant metagame as possible, but so far this one works for me.

20 Spe and Timid Nature lets you outspeed base max Speed base 70.

 

[AM]

Disclaimer I don't have any replays cause I'm 1. a moron who forgot to save any relevant ones that were decent 2. Didn't have too much free time on top of everything I was doing. Hopefully my reasoning will give you an idea of what I felt worked and what didn't.

Ok so I guess I'll start off with.....

M-Gyarados

I explored a Taunt / 3 attacks set and the purpose was more or less to see if it could function as a balance / stall-breaker. Overall I wasn't too impressed not that it wasn't effective but more so of the fact that losing that utility of Dragon Dance became really annoying as offense was able to handle this set better. Most of the success came from the partners more so than the M-Gyarados set itself. For example SD Pass Celebi to break Unaware Clefable, wall-break, basically take advantage of the boosts. In the end I think Dragon Dances superiority against all archetypes makes up for its excellence against Balanced and Stall, which I was trying to see with the set, while losing out against more offensive teams. I think this was a failed experiment on my part however I do believe there's more concepts to be explored on M-Gyarados that if time permits I'll try out someday.

Volcarona

Ok so my experiment was basically Tailwind + 3 attacks Volcarona. Sample team for you guys although it's no masterpiece it worked well for the purpose of testing and we all know how you guys love using my garbage builds hehe.

Team Used

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Rash Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Polish

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

Volcarona (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 152 HP / 248 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Tailwind

Garchomp (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Tailwind

Concept was pretty basic. Take 1 turn instead of 2 to gain double the speed and go from there. Speed is enough on Volcarona for 2 things primarily which is outpacing base 70s and below along with outpacing Scarf Keldeo via Tailwind. I viewed the aspect of Tailwind Volcarona as more of a team player than just your stand alone thing. In practice it did ok however I think it only did ok due to the lack of relevancy the set has and that because of its inferiority to its standard set, which I'll address in a bit, you really don't have to prepare for it on the level of its Quiver Dance variant. The benefits it did have was to provide some support to team-mates to threaten scarfers and general offense, also due to Tailwind it made Diancies lower speed compensated so that it can mega evolve with twice the speed instead of getting hit with a move by the likes of Charizard-Y or Mega Gardevoir.

However this idea is in a similar vein to the M-Gyarados experiment, except this time it doesn't capitilize on Volcarona's effectiveness as a threat but only displays one minor support utility that in essence can be compensated for better through better team-building or utilizing its more effective Quiver Dance set that increases not only its speed but levels of power as well. More productive than the M-Gyarados experiment, however Tailwind Volcarona I truly believe doesn't have legitimate merits to warrant usage.

 

[Celticpride]

So between ladder resets and school I couldn't get high-up level replays (sorry about that). I did manage to snag 2 OK ones last night amid the mess of Vaporeon, Fire Blast Gyarados, and mono-Poison teams that make up the lower ladder. I chose Serperior as my research subject this week. When looking at Serperior, I looked towards its expansive support movepool. I had seen Glare utilized in the lower tiers before, so I figure I'd start there. Obviously Leaf Storm is a given, and HP Fire provides good coverage for Steel types. Lastly, I figured Substitute could give me more breathing room when Serperior forces switches (and it forces a fair amount of them). So the final product looks like this:

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
- Substitute

It actually played fairly effectively. It does a good job luring in and paralyzing Talonflame, Char-Y, Heatran and Latios. In addition to that, it can also clean very well towards the end of games. Serp takes advantage of Rotom-W similar to the way Sceptile does, meaning it has a ton of opportunities to come in. As far as good teammates, I thought various DDers would be a good idea, because they can take advantage of paralyzed opponents without even having to set-up. A second faster, cleaning type can assist Serp against offensive teams. BirdSpam support is also needed, because a paralyzed Talonflame is still a threat to Serp (found this out the hard way when I changed some teammates around and ran into a real BirdSpam team). Overall this went pretty well. I might add another replay or two later if I have more time to ladder.

Replays

Not the best replays in the world, but they were the ones that showed Serperior in action the best in my opinion. Short descriptions below:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-214106597

This one shows a few things. First, Serperior cripples a faster threat in Gengar. It really didn't matter because it was taken out by slower aswers, however, the potential was there for Mega Altaria to take out a crippled Gengar, for example. The importance of Heatran and Talonflame lures is also useful, for example Weavile crippling Heatran was worth the sack because it allowed Serprior to go to work quicker. Serperior also cleans the opposing team due to its speed and decent coverage.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-214237570

This one showcases how Serperior paralyzes and cripples would be checks and counters like Char-Y. It also shows how Serperior takes advantage of Rotom-W repeatedly throughout the match. While this Serperior is mostly a support Pokemon, it also is threatening enough offensively and quick enough to close out a match as well.

 

[Vert]

Thank you for all people who participated this round of the OU Research Thread! We are looking for more participants this round, as last time was kind of lacking.

We have a new slate for you, and the OP has been updated!

These are probably the top 3 underrated pokemon that got the most popularity in the past month, so it makes sense to have them all in one slate!

 

[bludz]

Research Subject: Slowking
Ladder Account: to be determined

I've heard a lot of good stuff about how AV Slowking is an awesome defensive pivot in the current metagame so I want to try it out. I suppose I may experiment with another set or two as well.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Research Subject: Mega Alakazam
Ladder Account: to be determined too, will post when i make

Mega Alakazam is really underrated as of lately. Boasting a fantastic base speed tier allowing it revenge kill a plethora of threats including, but not limited to, mega metagross, mega beedrill and mega lopunny, not to mention Trace can allow it to revenge kill weather sweepers such as excadrill.

 

[bb skarm]

alakazam
this game suks

 

[Croven]

m-alakazam
slowking

purple snow

 

[Force Majeure]

Research subject: Thundurus-Therian
Ladder Account: Viz Major

I find it really difficult to build teams where I need Thundy-T as opposed to its Incarnate forme, mostly because the latter gets to abuse priority Thunder Wave, Rain Dance, Nasty Plot &c. However, I've heard that a Scarf set can be useful because of Therian's better Speed and monstrous Special Attack. Volt Absorb is an OK ability to benefit from choice-locked Electric-typed moves, like Raikou's Volt Switch, although a Scarf set would face the same problem and would thus be difficult to use effectively until Ground types are gone. Double Dance is also an option but tbf I rarely use double dance sets. Should be interesting.

EDIT: I'm dumb; speed tiers.

 

[bludz]

So I forgot to make a new account and ladder up from that but I played several games using a Slowking on some alts and had some fun with that.

Report on Slowking:
Okay so I wasn't expecting to get blown away by this pokemon since it's slow and has a weakness to the ever present Knock Off and U-turn while not having the physical bulk to tank either like its less sophisticated brother. I only used an Assault Vest set so far but I found it to be pretty nice. I mean not many things can take only 50% from a LO Latios Draco Meteor that aren't Steel types so that's actually a pretty nice boon for teambuilding especially since so many Latios can run EQ or HP Fire for the common steel type switch-ins. Also a great switch-in to the threat that is Landorus-I as long as it doesn't have Knock Off (just pray man) and it takes attacks from Specs Keldeo like a freaking champ. GREAT partner with Hippowdon (besides the grass weakness, but that's easily covered by a Torn-T or Spdef Talon) since they basically wall opposite ends of the spectrum and Slowking takes on Starmies and whatnot while Hippo can handle electric types and Bisharp. Not gonna lie I had my own shitty little team for a while but I ended up using Tesung's team from the Team Study thread since I was too lazy to make mine better and that team is legit. Dragon Tail is one of those insanely spammable moves that I just couldn't take off of Slowking, especially after it pretty much singlehandedly helped me destroy a baton pass team. So yeah great special tank with the nice utility of Regenerator my only issue was that it's sort of meant to be a switch-in to Scalds but the burns really hurt its effectiveness. I think that a non-AV set could actually be pretty decent but the ability to run some offensive investment thanks to the extra bulk afforded by the Assault Vest makes this set probably better IMO. Definitely a fun mon especially with all the coverage options so opponents aren't always sure what's a good switch-in which is pretty nice for a defensive pivot.

 

[bludz]

I like this thread and I don't want to see it fall into obscurity :(

DarkNostalgia Mysteria Croven Force Majeure I'd be interested to hear about your guys' findings.

 

[DracoNinja]

report on thundurus-t

agility+3 attacks thundurus-t is such a fucking monster atm that slices through offense like a pair of scissors cutting through paper. if anything, i think thundurus-t is even more threatening vs offense than RP landorus-i because thundurus-t doesn't have 4mss which is huge while landorus-i struggles with 4mss because it wants to have epower/focus blast/psychic/rock slide/hp ice/sludge wave but it only has 3 moveslots whereas thundurus-t can slap thunderbolt/hp ice/focus blast and cover pretty much the entire metagame. yes it makes thundurus-t a very predictable pokemon but who gives a fuck about being predictable when it hits pretty much the entire metagame for SE damage regardless bar fairies (altho they still take a massive truckton w/ LO tbolt) the metagame is currently leaning towards balanced/bulky offense teams and almost every balance team i played against is having this cookie-cutter bulky ground+bulky water and its against this type of teams where thundurus-t really shines against as thundurus-t is able to 1hko all of them bar hippowdon the respective move, although even hippo gets 2hko'd. the increase in usage of sdef talonflame and av tornadus-t is also favorable to thundurus-t because it now stands as one of the best offensive checks to them and is able to set-up an agility freely. base 101 speed is also really good in a metagame dominated by balance teams and manaphy skyrocketting in usage.

just look at how well it matches up vs the top 10 mons in usage currently:

| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 26.651% | - loses to hp ice
| 2 | Heatran | 19.844% | - takes a massive shitton from focus blast
| 3 | Keldeo | 18.219% | - loses to tbolt
| 4 | Talonflame | 18.023% | - loses to tbolt
| 5 | Scizor | 17.722% | - only sdef can really beat it, other sets take a massive chunk from tbolt
| 6 | Ferrothorn | 16.917% | - takes a massive shitton from focus blast
| 7 | Garchomp | 16.736% | - loses to hp ice
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 16.717% | - tbolt blows, hpump in return doesn't do nearly enough
| 9 | Latios | 15.396% | - needs some chip damage to guarantee hp ice ko
| 10 | Bisharp | 15.223% | - sucker punch dents thundurus-t p severely but nonetheless focus blast koes

and landorus-i can't even cover all of them even if it had 4 slots, yet thundurus-t can do it in 3

however, despite the above paragraph painting a rosy picture for thundurus-t, it does have its own fare share of flaws which prevent it from becoming a top tier threat. thundurus-t is relatively frail, and this is further worsened by a crippling sr weakness which cuts away its bulk. agility+3 attacks mean that thundurus-t also can't touch stall at all and is worn down by its own LO recoil, which means it usually ends up deadweight vs stall and is really only good in pivoting in and scaring off bulky waters on the opponent's stall team. that's why it's best to pair thundurus-t with another special powerhouse that can break stall such as MGardevoir. thundurus-t also appreciates having hazards on the opponent's side and none on your side because thundurus-t only needs a tiny bit of chip to guarentee koes on stuff like heatran and ferrothorn, which just goes to show of how strong thundurus-t's power is.

that being said agility thundurus-t>rp landorus-i anyday :]

 

[Analytic]

Research Subject:M-Alakazam
Ladder Alt:Ana1ytic

Thoughts:

I've used M-Alakazam recently and it has a pretty good matchup against the more offensive minded teams.With M-Loppuny,Gengar,Landorus-I,Thundurus-I being a staple on these teams,it's nice to have a revenge killer that doesn't need to be choice locked.Alakazam has a good speed tier pre MEvo as well,out speeding the likes of Gengar,Thundurus-I, Landorus-I, Azelf and Keldeo.

It hates any form of priority bar Mach Punch though.This is why it's paired with pokemon like Keldeo,handles priority like Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch, while being a good check to the likes of (M)Scizor and Bisharp too.I've used a SubCM variant in the past to some great extent of success.

Looking forward to the analysis stage :D

 

[Aragorn the King]

Stay tuned for the revamp of this thread, which will be done by Recreant and Vertex! Locking this one now.