Project ORAS NU Discussion / Speculation

[soulgazer]

ORAS NU DISCUSSION / SPECULATION

Only discuss about NU Pokemon. I will delete and maybe infract bad posts / one liners or posts about Pokemon that aren't NU.​

Move Tutor/TMs: http://pastebin.com/zwG6puPT

Tutor Moves by Tutor: http://pastebin.com/zAtEmXZk

Tutor Moves by Pokemon: http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp

Level Up Moves: http://pastebin.com/16baa7Yk - Demo has altered learnsets for obtainables.

Egg Moves: http://pastebin.com/hzFmncB6

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Mega Evolutions that I think have a chance to be NU:

Mega Audino

Confirmed ability: Healer

Stats: 103/60/126/80/126/50

Typing: Normal/Fairy

Mega Camerupt

Confirmed ability: Sheer Force

Stats: 70/120/100/145/105/20

Typing: Fire/Ground

Mega Glalie

Confirmed ability: Refrigerate

Stats: 80/120/80/120/80/100

Typing: Ice

Mega Beedrill

Confirmed ability: Adaptability

Stats: 65/150/40/15/80/145

Typing: Bug/Poison

Mega Steelix

Confirmed ability: Sand Force

Stats: 75/125/230/55/95/30

Typing: Steel/Ground

Mega Pidgeot

Confirmed ability: No Guard

Stats: 83/80/80/135/80/121

Typing: Normal/Flying

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I will make this thread more pretty when I have more time.

You can post, but I am going to say it again: If you guys shitpost or post one liners I am going to delete and maybe even infract you.

Don't discuss about Pokemon that aren't NU or Mega Evolutions that weren't mentionned in the OP: There's no way Mega Altaria / Sceptile / Lopunny will stay in NU. If you are mad because I think those Mega Evolutions will stay in NU, this thread isn't the place to complain either.

 

[Disjunction]

Initial thoughts on some stuff I've been skimming through

Knock Off/Gunk Shot/Superpower Pangoro is a champ with 0 switch-ins. Band and Scarf sets instantly got a million times better.
Knock Off Malamar provides usable Dark STAB finally
Giga Drain Vivillon for auto-healing while cleaning up those Rhydons and Seismitoads

Thoughts on megas:
Steelix still sucks. Might see a rise but it loses out on lefties for some ok special bulk.
M-Pidgeot will probably rise cause it's at a really good speed tier for current NU. We'll see what power creep brings, I guess?
Don't need to worry about M-Beedrill, UU will ban that for us
Mega Camel is going to be very difficult to OHKO without a banded/set up ground type or water type attack. Which means it's going to be doing a bunch of damage before it goes down.
Mega Audino is stupid bulky. A great mega choice because it has a great HP stat before Mega evolving. Definitely could see a rise.
People keep saying Mega Glalie sucks, but Refrigerate is an incredible ability. It has a usable speed stat and decent attack so we'll see.

 

[ryan]

Building Mega Beedrill teams soon so that I'll be ready to use it before we ban the shit out of it. It's going to be very good. Even with shitty STABs, it's super powerful, and it has Swords Dance, Drill Run, and Knock Off. I think Drill Run will be nearly necessary for Mega Steelix, and you'll definitely want to run stuff like Samurott and other offensive Water-types to help break stuff like Rhydon and Mega Steelix. Rhydon is probably a pretty good partner too because it can switch into Kangaskhan really well.

Adamant Mega Beedrill outspeed Adamant Scarf Mesprit by one point. kekekeke

oh and DRAIN PUNCH SLURPUFF LOL

 

[Ares]

So pretty sure Beedrill is going UU at the very least solely for how good of a pivot its going to be. Adaptability U-turn coming off of a base 150 Atk is going to be ridiculous. Here are some calcs that illustrate THE POWWWAAAA!!!!

252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 162-192 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 96-114 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Uxie: 248-292 (70 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Vileplume: 154-182 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery


So not only will it take away at least a third of their health, you get to switch into an appropriate check / counter.

 

[skies]

May I just totally go on a love spree for Pangoro o_o. Pangoro with Knock Off, Drain Punch, elemental punches, this thing will be fantastic! Knock Off / Drain Punch / Parting Shot / Taunt sounds like a great set with Iron Fist boosting Drain Punch and such. What do you guys think of Slurpuff now? It'll be insane with Play Rough / Drain Punch going to work by removing Probopass from potential counters. Poison-types still suck, but it can manage. A neat combination I think will be good i mega Beedrill + Slurpuff. U-turn from anything with such power and then go into Slurpuff, plus neat synergy. Shaping up to be a great metagame with these changes!!

 

[Punchshroom]

Tutor Moves http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp:

Aurorus gets Earth Power and Hyper Voice. WOOHOO

Leavanny reaccesses Knock Off. Step the fuck aside Tune.

Gourgeist gets Synthesis. As if we need more reasons to piss on the Dusks.

Knock Off Malamar awwww yeah

Pangoro received ALL the buffs ever. Better STAB, more (and arguably better) anti-Fairy attacks, Iron Fist boosted elemental punches, HHNNNGGGGG

Drain Punch Slurpuff. Goodbye Probopass / Steelix, looks like Poison-types will be all the rage again.

We have a grand total of two new Stealth Rock users in Barbaracle and Aurorus, which will pretty much never bother with the move anyway. At the very least both can wreck Seismitoad and fend off most spinners @3@

 

[Punchshroom]

Aurorus might actually be intriguing with a set of Stealth Rock / Hyper Voice / Freeze-Dry / Earth Power because of its nice matchup versus Seismitoad and providing a lot of power and the ability to beat Flying-type Defoggers is obvious enough. It might be a nice offensive Stealth Rock setter, the Speed and bulk is killer though :[.

True, but if Rampardos was able to make such an effective anti-lead despite its bad speed, then Aurorus doesn't look too shabby for the role, now that I look at it.

Not to mention that delicious neutral coverage.

 

[Quite Quiet]

Kecleon: Low Kick, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Magic Coat, Foul Play, Last Resort, Icy Wind, Aqua Tail, Iron Tail, Bind, Snore, Knock Off, Role Play, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, Water Pulse, After You, Trick, Wonder Room, Recycle, Snatch, Stealth Rock, Endure, Skill Swap

Welcome to the literal cancer mon. Everything illegal that could be fun with Protean is now legal, even the very important Drain Punch. Hopefully now it can make something other than a slow prio-spammer that's sorta outdone by Khan.

 

[ryan]

Tutor Moves http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp:

Leavanny reaccesses Knock Off. Step the fuck aside Tune.

Still doesn't have Taunt.

RIP

also Nature Power is better than Hyper Voice.

 

[soulgazer]

Please don't post about quick banning Mega Beedrill. This is a thread to discuss about ORAS, not potential quick bans or suspect tests.

Hollywood Swords Dance 3 Atk Beedrill does look nice on paper, but remember that it will have base 75 Speed before Mega Evolving and keep its shitty 65/40/80 bulk lol. Sure it will have 5 teammates, but the Beedrill checks will have 5 teammates too so yea.. If you run Protect, you will have a bunch of 50/50s (ex: Beedrill vs Lilligant, you Protect as Lilligant just predicts and Quiver Dance etc.. and if you dont have protect well iirc Beedrill can die to LO HP Fire with SR (if it doesnt kill, with Spikes it should), etc.). There's also the fact that Beedrill wants U-Turn, Poison Jab, Knock Off, Drill Run, X-Scissor, Swords Dance, and Protect. Really nice 4MSS :'). There's so much more I want to say, but I am going to stop there.

What do you guys think of Mega Glalie as a wallbreaker? With 120/120/100 offensive stats and Refrigirate Return/Double-Edge/Explosion + Earthquake and access to Spikes and Taunt, Glalie looks like it could become a threat. I guess you could use it as a Lead with like Spikes / Taunt / Explosion / Earthquake, but to be honest I could see Double-Edge / Explosion / Earthquake / Taunt | Spikes to be superior. Just punch holes in the opponent's team, Taunt to prevent potential set up or walls trying to heal or Spikes predicting a switch to a Glalie counter (if that even exist lol), and use Explosion when Glalie is low on health, not needed anymore, or to remove something from the opponent's team to support a teammate :)

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Thought dump:
Mega Camerupt I'm going to love abusing the fuck out of if it manages to stay. While it's slow and loses to every Water-type every it possesses a good STAB combo and good power backing it up along with Sheer Force. Maybe it will be NU's Mega Abomasnow but I dunno yet. Outside of Trick Room teams it'll be best as an offensive Stealth Rock setter. (Just make sure to have a Gatr/Rott counter around before setting up Rocks though)

Mega Glalie has now stolen the title from Lickilicky of having the stronger Explosion in the game, and it looks to be a very good Pokemon as it can wallbreak through pretty much every wall not named Steelix or Bastiodon in the meta and has good Power and decent speed to back it up. IMO Spikes Wallbreaker will be better as it can set up spikes because it can force switches. Though IMO they should've boosted his speed more instead of giving him a Special Attack boost but whatever. (Though ironically it can potentially OHKO walls from higher tiers; Notable Skarmory and Registeel)

I'll also love abusing the newly buffed Kecleon, and maybe now Assault Vest will be viable on it. (Just maybe..........)

Mega Audino will hate losing Regenator, but in return becomes one of the best Knock Off sponges in the tier.

 

[TSM ryan]

AquajetBreloom wouldn't have been bodied by Sceptile in Open if he had M-Pidgeot. :[

But yea, it creeping on Sceptile's speed by 1 point is pretty cool.

Mega Steelix is cool because it can run a Rock Polish set more viably due to special bulk, but as already stated, it will miss it's only form of recovery in Leftovers.

Kecleon is AIDS.

 

[CanadianWifier]

Kecleon is your new lord.
Seriously, it has such a varied movepool: access to rocks, recover, elemental punches, Drain punch, two forms of priority, and everything is STAB. Also has usable bulk. Has the potential to be a tier-defining mon.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Kecleon is your new lord.
Seriously, it has such a varied movepool: access to rocks, recover, elemental punches, Drain punch, two forms of priority, and everything is STAB. Also has usable bulk. Has the potential to be a tier-defining mon.

Psh... You forgot knock off.
In all seriousness, now that kecleon will have tons of tutor moves legal with protean I agree that it will be a huge threat and very unpredictable.

 

[viol and bass]

Nature Power is better than Hyper Voice.

Nah, Hyper Voice just has more advantages than Nature Power. It has higher power, it goes through subs, but more importantly, You don't lose your primary STAB move to fucking Taunt.

Yes, Nature Power avoids Sucker Punch. Big deal. Use Sub or whatever.

 

[ryan]

No, Nature Power is good for the status chance. Hyper Voice isn't much stronger. Hitting through Subs is a nice perk I forgot about though. I suppose they both have their advantages, but I think outside of Scarf, I'd use Nature Power.

Oh, and Taunt isn't that common anyways.

 

[Evan.]

Drain Punch Slurpuff lol rip meta

Kecleon no longer has to use Hollywood's garbage CB set and can finally run Sub Punch like a lord

Mega Pidgeot HYPE who needs boomburst swellow when you have BASED MEGA BURD JESUS

Mega Cro-Dino is gonna be a hella good win condition on defensive teams

GIGA DRAIN PARTY GOAT YES OML no but srsly zen headbutt gogoat is gg to vile

GF choked again on making furfrou good smh

thats it for now

 

[Disjunction]

What do you guys think of Mega Glalie as a wallbreaker? With 120/120/100 offensive stats and Refrigirate Return/Double-Edge/Explosion + Earthquake and access to Spikes and Taunt, Glalie looks like it could become a threat. I guess you could use it as a Lead with like Spikes / Taunt / Explosion / Earthquake, but to be honest I could see Double-Edge / Explosion / Earthquake / Taunt | Spikes to be superior. Just punch holes in the opponent's team, Taunt to prevent potential set up or walls trying to heal or Spikes predicting a switch to a Glalie counter (if that even exist lol), and use Explosion when Glalie is low on health, not needed anymore, or to remove something from the opponent's team to support a teammate :)

Another Mega Glalie set could be a nice, suicide rain Rain setter. Spikes, counter taunting, obv Rain, and momentum grabbing with the most powerful Explosion in the game is reaaaally cool. Base 100 is not bad for NU standards either. I definitely wouldn't say it's a reliable lead because of how many suicide lead Rock types we have, but it can come in mid-game, threaten some of the bulkier answers to rain monsters kabu/ludi (Cryo, Drag, Ferroseed (252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 255-301 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO), Seismitoad, etc are all pressured by Meglalie) and set up more Rain, or some Spikes or whatever. Definitely one of the most interesting threats on the list, imo.

 

[Mistrals]

Waterfall Kingler finally lol, and Waterfall Swanna. (No seis or barb still)

 

[Dalbriddge]

Pangoro May turn into more of a scrafty, Knock Off, Drain Punch, Ice Punch and Swords Dance will most likely be the main set.

Zen Headbutt Slurpuff?

 

[TSM ryan]

Zen Headbutt Slurpuff? and No megas should be in NU lowest tier RU.

Well unfortunately for your opinion, that won't be the case. Quite a few of the new megas simply won't be good enough to make it out of NU.
In fact, megas can give the tier the much needed revamp it's been needing to avoid becoming stale.

 

[soulgazer]

Pangoro May turn into more of a scrafty, Knock Off, Drain Punch, Ice Punch and Swords Dance will most likely be the main set.

Zen Headbutt Slurpuff? and No megas should be in NU lowest tier RU.

Slurpuff gets Drain Punch, not Zen Headbutt lol. If it really does give me proof because I can't find it.

@ the Aurorus stuff: Hyper Voice / Tri Attack / Freeze-Dry / Earth Power seems good enough if you were to use a Choice Scarf lol, what else would it need?

 

[Magcargo]

Definitely interested in trying out Mega Pidgeot (Before it possibly gets banned / moves up to a higher tier). 100% accurate STAB Hurricanes off of base 135 Special Attack is extremely frightening for offensive teams to face, as very few Pokemon avoid being 2HKOed by it (even resist like Kabutops are 2HKOed after Stealth Rock). I'm pretty sure that its standard set will be something like Hurricane | Heat Wave | HP Grass | U-Turn / Roost. Heat Wave is obvious since it hits certain Steel-types like Ferroseed and Klingklang for super effective damage while HP Grass is mainly used to KO Seismitoad and Rhydon after a bit of prior damage. U-turn allows Pidgeot to escape things that wall it, namely Audino, and maintain momentum, while Roost is for Healing. Defog could also be used, but Pidgeot honestly seems like a shitty Defogger since it loses to a crapton of SR setters and is SR weak.

I think that Kabutops and Magnet Pull Probopass will most likely be standard partners for Pidgeot. Kabutops can switch into Scarf Pyroar and typhlosin attempting to revenge kill Pidgeot and remove SR while Probopass traps Steel-types such as opposing Probopass and Mega Steelix that keep Pidgeot in check. Dragalge also seems like a decent partner since it counters Mega Audino (which sets up on Pidgeot easily due to its ridiculous bulk) while also keeping Rotom-N in check.

 

[Brawlfest]

BAN PANGORO 2K14 OML @_@

Tank MegaRupt could be pretty cool.

 

[Mistrals]

Mega Beedrill doesn't sound like NU material at all.

Steelix is the most likely candidate for NU. Got some decent buffs, but loses more useful abilities and it's item slot for things like lefties. It still keeps BD Puff in check as drain punch doesn't even OHKO normal steelix.
+3 252+ SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 236-282 (66.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 224-266 (63.2 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 307-361 (86.7 - 101.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

As you can see, this thing is absurdly bulky. Should be cool to play around with.

Audino sounds absurd at first, but..

0 Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 254-302 (61.9 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 228-270 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 256-303 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 276-326 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 207-244 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 226-268 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 192-226 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO

Of course, there is potential for a physically defensive set(with CM maybe?). That set happens be be decently harder to kill.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Audino: 265-313 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Victreebel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Audino: 204-240 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Audino: 204-242 (49.7 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

If it gets one cm up though how do you kill it?

As for what stops a cm set, M-steelix, Roselia, and Probopass come to mind. It's sounding a bit centralizing rn, but we'll see. Can't say I'd mind if RU took this one.

Glalie is cool af and has decent power behind it with STAB Double-edge and explosion, and has eq, ice shard, and iron head to play around with too offensively. Explosion gets a kill or heavy damage off against almost everything in the tier.
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 289-342 (75.2 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 250-295 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's always Poliwrath to stop it cold I suppose, though explosion 3HKOes a max physical bulk poliwrath.

Avalugg freezes it in it's tracks with only a 4hko, but avalugg is trash, so..

Getting stuff like taunt and spikes is cool(the new Delibird right here?)

Maybe it stays, maybe it gives NU the cold shoulder.


Pidgeot gets a solid speed tier, stab hurricane that doesn't miss, and heat wave coverage. Don't think this one stays NU for long either.


Camerupt looks incredibly powerful.

252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Uxie: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragalge: 284-336 (85 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Nothing really wants to be switching into this. Only way it'll end up in NU is that water weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it leave us.


Kecleon also sounds absurd because of all the new tricks it just picked up. Jack of all trades physically and gets rocks and recover.

Malamar is now slightly less shit. Probably will still see more usage than it deserves.

Gourgeist sounds even more annoying to deal with now that it has reliable recovery. Also makes Dusclops even more shit.

Also Boomburst Vibrava hype!!!