It's true that nobody was forcing anybody to use Mega Sableye, but opportunity cost is a factor here. Mega Sableye beat more things outright than any other Dark Mega, and thus the opportunity cost for not using it could almost never have been justified; while the other Dark Megas had matchups they were good in that Mega Sableye wasn't, they came with more situations where they'd lose when Mega Sableye wouldn't. Competitively, the other Megas weren't bad, they were just too inferior to see significant use.Uh, why would Mega Sableye being banned change your opinion and what does that have to do with Hoopa-U? When Mega Sableye was around no one was forcing it into dark users and other Mega Evolutions could be used, so that doesn't change anything. Also how is Hoopa-U comparable to Genesect? Genesect has a better defensive typing, better coverage, U-turn, download and more speed.
Everyone but a few seem to be dodging around the real issue of Hoopa U being crazy good on Psy as wellIt's true that nobody was forcing anybody to use Mega Sableye, but opportunity cost is a factor here. Mega Sableye beat more things outright than any other Dark Mega, and thus the opportunity cost for not using it could almost never have been justified; while the other Dark Megas had matchups they were good in that Mega Sableye wasn't, they came with more situations where they'd lose when Mega Sableye wouldn't. Competitively, the other Megas weren't bad, they were just too inferior to see significant use.
While I haven't played any Monotype as Dark, based on what The-Vale is arguing, Dark type teams built around Mega Sableye needed Hoopa-U to deal with particular threats and, because of Mega Sableye's ubiquity, it seemed like Dark in general needed Hoopa-U to address those threats. Now that Mega Sableye is gone, the opportunity cost of not using it is gone too, and thus other Megas (along with standard Sableye) have risen to prominence. This means that Dark teams are now inherently weak to different threats than they used to be, and Hoopa-U's necessity to those teams could have changed. In theory, this would mean that Hoopa-U was never as necessary to Dark as it seemed but, because Mega Sablyeye was so much better than its alternatives, the metagame standard Dark teams never reflected the alternatives that would have showed that Hoopa-U was less necessary.
Its role on Psychic hasn't changed much since the previous suspect. You still tailor it to your weaknesses and/or wallbreak. Voters didn't think it was so unhealthy for the metagame as to ban it then.Everyone but a few seem to be dodging around the real issue of Hoopa U being crazy good on Psy as well
I think one of the viable reasons why Hoopa-U re-suspect could be a possibility would be the community’s mindset when it was banned. If some of you guys don’t remember, during Hoopa-U suspect Monotype Council decided to ban Aegislash and leave the Type-Ban policy behind. If you go to the Hoopa-U suspect discussion thread (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-hoopa-unbound-suspect.3566368/) you will see most of the people saying “Is it worth it to ban it since it will cripple dark. Why can’t we just ban it on Psychic”. Like in the Mega-Sableye situation the discussion shouldn’t really be like that if we are going to follow the new policies.
Sableye will very clearly change everyone's view on the Hoopa ban because now a precident has bee set. The arguments may not have changed but the way this meta thinks has changed greatly. Before you could argue that banning Hoopa would hurt dark. Now you cannot because that is no longer relevant. Your post above saying it helps dark is irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is that it is broken and/or subtracts from the mets by being on either dark or psychic.
And for a mon suspected so soon before this concept before this argument was introduced, and having its arguments on how it would kill dark no longer being valid, it deserves a suspect.
I think those posts touch the gist of the matter. That, and coupled with the overwhelming power which now psychics have with the triumvirate Hoopa-U/Mega medicham/Victini, could be the main reasons why a Hoopa-U resuspect could be in order.Now that i have read this quite often in recent posts here is a
friendly reminder that keeping a Pokemon because it would hurt the type when you ban it is not the banning philosophy we use and therefore not a valid argument!
Hi, welcome to Monotype and Smogon! I hope you are enjoying the metagame. I'll try to address all of your concerns one at a time to give them the attention they deserve.I'll hop into the forum mix. Hey everyone, Frinckles here. As a Ghost-Monotype player, I'm relatively new to the scene having started playing after the latest Mega-Sableye ban. (Which totally wasn't posted on the "Important Monotype Tiering Events")
So, I'd like to ask -- uh, yeah what the hell is up with Ghost types?
It feels like Ghost-monotype is has the most limited options when it comes to team building aside from maybe Ice. Yeah, sure it's fun talking in the SD chatroom about the quality of life the lower tier teams such as Ghost have -- but it's beginning to feel like apathy. Like, one day Mimikyu is going to descent from the heavens and maybe, just maybe fix Ghost types but until then just hold on! It can't get much worse anyway right?
I'm not positing that Mega-Gengar should get out on good behaviour, but if a type is at a minimal usage, there is probably a reason for that.
Looking at this list of banned Pokemon would make it seem like Ghost originally had some absurd usage and needed to be smacked by the ban hammer. I highly doubt that was the case.
And since it'll come up anyway, yeah -- type bans should be a thing. It gives people more control and balance over a metagame literally focused on typing. It's only a complicated ban if you can't read a small color coded list.
I'd really like to hear more about the current state of not only Ghost, but the rest of the <4.0% crew and how this metagame plans to move forward.
We don't have a specific set of rules for what should/shouldn't be suspected. Moreover, I'm not a fan of creating a concrete set of rules for it because every case is different. Sometimes we want to react to a growing metagame trend because we think it is unhealthy (e.g. mega-sab), while other times we want to really see how the metagame adapts (e.g. Shadow Tag). In general, I don't think we have made (nor will make) a decision in haste. However, if other members of the council want to introduce a concrete set of rules about when/what we can/can't suspect, then it is definitely an option.3rd hoopa u suspect so it can get banned when
jokes aside im p much expecting a rise of hoopa u yeams especially in low ladder sinceit gets ez winssince relative to other teams its a lot easier to use, which leads me to ask this question, when is something (like a type) considered overcentralizing? ive seen quite a few people saying psychic is used too much and it needs a nerf and it came up a little bit during the recent suspect. while i personally dont see a problem in a type getting a lot of usage (over 10% or more) and find it pointless to nerf top types to increase usage of lower types (im pretty sure a majority of those people using the nerfed type will just switch to the next strongest type and now that has inane usage) its made me wonder at what point is something "used too much"? also how is it decided if something should be suspected at all? i know the council votes but is there a place explaining how you decide if something is suspect worthy (like an ou tiering policy except instead of whether it should be banned its whether it should be suspected)? i feel like right now its basically whichever a lot of people are complaining about at the moment (and while im not trying to bring down the council and think theyve done a wonderful job of balancing the meta i feel like the hoopa resuspect was too soon. basically someone found really good sets and they started getting used but there wasnt much type for the meta to counter adapt.)
a set of defining rules about who to suspect and when would be pretty nice for sumo instead of just trying to be the most heard so that the council notices you. either way the council has done a good job of balancong oras and will hopefully keep sumo balanced :p
Even though i would also love to see a significant rise in poison and fire usage i don’t think neither of those things are realistic. Some types can be underrated and actually decent in tournament use but bad when it comes to ladder. I think Poison at the moment is one of those types. If you look at the high ladder stats the top 3 of most used stats are Psychic, Flying and Ground. Poison has a bad match-up against all 3 of these. Nothing has changed in the meta recently and i doubt anything will before sumo. Same applies to Poison, since as long as Psychic, Flying and Ground get so much usage i can’t see it getting more usage than it already gets at the moment.I was pretty scared to see the decision, but I gotta say I'm ecstatic! I'm so happy that it wasn't banned, despite the fact it was suspected a 2nd time (which, given trends, almost every mon gets banned, it's rly cool to see that we broke that notorious string of events). My prediction for the late ORAS Metagame would be a flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated. Now that Sun and Moon are just around the corner, people will probably want to test stuff before the metagame ends and moves into transition. I also think, funny enough, Poison will see a significant rise in usage, it really is an underrated type, and its very anti-meta! Granted it is a bit of a challenge to initially pick up, but once you do figure out how things work, it's rather fun. Lastly, I'm expecting a rise with Fire's usage. Since I'm expecting a flourish of Offense, Fire's a type that excels at HO, I can see more people picking that up to abuse the archetype.
We are going to have another thread later on to discuss such matter, they are a couple stuff that the council want to iron out and the community should give their opinion in such matter.i want to ask the council whats going to happen when we are going to go from ORAS to SuMo.
Are you guys gonna use UU's Kokoloko strategy or just let everything in. Is the BL what was crafted in ORAS going to transfer to SuMo or are you guys going to unban stuff like Aegislash, M-Sab and etc to see if they would actually be healthy in the new meta?
I mean this could happen and it would be in all honesty much more healthy for the meta to see a bit of variety, however what's more likely to happen is people will now spam psychic even more because Hoopa-U wasn't banned which will leave psychic still with one of its best mons. Most likely water and flying will be alongside psychic as the most used types still, as has been for most of Oras, because in the last two months I honestly can't see the meta changing. Fairy may increase in usage because people may want to try different builds in preparation for the plethora of new fairy types coming in gen 7 but then again that probably won't happen.I was pretty scared to see the decision, but I gotta say I'm ecstatic! I'm so happy that it wasn't banned, despite the fact it was suspected a 2nd time (which, given trends, almost every mon gets banned, it's rly cool to see that we broke that notorious string of events). My prediction for the late ORAS Metagame would be a flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated. Now that Sun and Moon are just around the corner, people will probably want to test stuff before the metagame ends and moves into transition. I also think, funny enough, Poison will see a significant rise in usage, it really is an underrated type, and its very anti-meta! Granted it is a bit of a challenge to initially pick up, but once you do figure out how things work, it's rather fun. Lastly, I'm expecting a rise with Fire's usage. Since I'm expecting a flourish of Offense, Fire's a type that excels at HO, I can see more people picking that up to abuse the archetype.
I would say this is maybe the best mega for psychic and fighting now, far outclassing mega gallade (and to think mega gallade was banned once lol) on fighting, and on psychic definitely outclassing mega garde as mega sableye is now banned so mega garde isn't needed to bypass mega sabs. Both of these types appreciate the sheer wall breaking power mega medi brings as well as its good coverage and dual priority as well as the ability to maintain momentum and break a ton of defensive cores on its own.Ok so now that Hoopa-U is officially staying in the metagame (again lol) I thought it would be a great idea to grab this opportunity and talk about the next big threat, the one and only, Mega-Medicham! Note this isn't a request for a suspect but an attempt to start a metagame discussion :^)
Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt / Thunder Punch
- Bullet Punch
This is arguably the best wallbreaker right now together with Hoopa-U and guess what, you can use them both in the same team! With help from Hoopa-U it can break down any defensive core in the game with its insane power and is probably the most used mega right now (waiting for August stats :J).
It can run good coverage with double priority knocking out frail mons and Ice Punch / Thunder Punch to hit flying types as well as Garchomp and Slowbro respectively.
So I would like to know, what's everyones opinion about this monster?
I seem to say this every time either of the two get discussed, but neither Medi nor Gallade outclass the other - they do different jobs. Mega Medicham is a wallbreaker, and extremely good at it, while Mega Gallade is a sweeper, and also good at it. It's just that the metagame right now favours a wallbreaker over a sweeper, whereas before Mega Gallade was preferred for its ability to sweep once teams had been weakened.I would say this is maybe the best mega for psychic and fighting now, far outclassing mega gallade (and to think mega gallade was banned once lol) on fighting, and on psychic definitely outclassing mega garde as mega sableye is now banned so mega garde isn't needed to bypass mega sabs. Both of these types appreciate the sheer wall breaking power mega medi brings as well as its good coverage and dual priority as well as the ability to maintain momentum and break a ton of defensive cores on its own.