Oracles on the Delphi Express [OU 'BulkyBalanced' RMT]

Awesome Thought Process
Thinking helps!

First off, I'd like to say this teams goal was to murder stall. With that in mind: I started with one pokemon that I knew I wanted: LO Heatran. He hits like a god damn nuke and without leftovers he can bluff scarf set before attacking, allowing him to force switches. His awesome typing makes it easy to build a team around him, synergy wise. From here I knew I wanted Toxic Spikes. The best Toxic Spikers in OU are Roserade and Forretress. In my experience, forretress leads always get slept, taunted or ohko'd, and I don't want to go down the stall route anyway, and stall is forrey's niche. So, though I dislike Sleep Powder's unreliable accuracy, I went with Lead Roserade. It's worth mentioning that Roserade and Heatran resist each other's weaknesses, although this usually ends up being irrelevant as Roserade is usually dead or crippled to the point of worthlessness by midgame. Following up my first entry hazard pokemon is Swampet, who lays down the rocks. I use an SR Mixpert with Roar, which is extremely helpful against stat-uppers and baton pass teams, as well as for scouting purposes. Laying down Rocks and spamming Roar to accumulate damage and scout it always fun. Swampert also resists the only type that Heatran and Roserade do not resist: Rock. Overall, I wanted a check to CBTar - all my teams are weak to this - and I needed Stealth Rock, so I went with the 100% CBTar counter, Swampert. Now, I had a core, the formidable Fire + Water + Grass combination. However, these three pokemon left me open to a lot of threats, especially Taunting DD Gyarados, SD Lucario, CB Mamoswine, etc. I needed a pokemon that could check all these threats, and more, without losing coverage and still remaining within the whole 'ruin stall' idea. I went with one of the metagame's best revenge killers, Choice Scarf Rotom. Using the bulky 252 HP set brought to popularity by KG and August, my Rotom can take unboosted bulky dos waterfalls, survive lucario's unboosted crunch, never be 2HKO'd by Mamoswine, all while maintaining enough offensive power due to the excellent coverage offered by Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Overheat. It also has Trick, which renders Bliss switches useless, which is always good fun. Finally, SD Lucario came into play. Most of his checks are handled by Heatran (or the rest of the team) in one way or another. Gliscor, hoping to switch in on Earth Power, often receives a molten burp in his pigly face. CS Rotom Shadow Balls barely scratch Tran, Overheat literally does nothing, and Thunderbolt doesn't due much, while Heatran does massive damage back. And if they trick me their scarf - thanks for the extra revenge killer. Gyarados/Salamence takes a lot from Fire Blast + SR. All in all, Heatran is effective at weakening Lucario's checks, making it easier for him to sweep. Looking over these five pokemon, I noticed one last gaping weakeness: MixApe. And to this, I replied, Three Attack LO Latias.

From Afar:





tl;dr- every type is resisted twice or more.

Upon further inspection:

Ms. Leading
|
Focus Sash
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpAtk / 4 HP
Ability: Natural Cure
  • Sleep Power
  • Toxic Spikes
  • Leaf Storm
  • Hidden Power Fire

Set Analysis:
Standard leading Roserade. Though most people just sleep any pokemon that is slower than them, I tend to Leaf Storm slower pokemon and save Sleep Powder for strategic use. Swampert is OHKO'd, Hippwdon is OHKO'd, Forretress is almost OHKO'd and outsped. Some leads just cause immediate switches. Metagross, for example. Any sensible player carries Lum Berry on their lead Metagross these days, and Rose is 2HKO'd by EQ + Bullet Punch. In this case, I switch to Swampert as they EQ or SR. If they EQ'd they'll likely set up Rocks and switch, so I'll set up rocks and Roar the switch in. If they SR'd, I go to Rotom to take the explosion.

Roserade v. Forretress, Nidoqueen, Smeargle:
Nidoqueen is plaqued by mediocrity. It's defensive stats are okay. It's typing is okay. But it lacks three things that make Roserade a more consistent spiker: a sleep move, better speed, and natural cure. Sleep moves let me use my sash to absorb any attack, put the foe to sleep, and set up as they snooze. Better speed allows me to come in and set up on a wider range of pokemon, and natural cure allows me to set up T-Spikes later on, even if I get statused. Forretress is in a similar boat. First off, as I mentioned earlier, Forretress takes my team down the stall road, which is kinda somewhere I'd like to avoid. Also, Forretress is easily slept, taunted, or OHKO'd by common leads, cannot absorb enemy Toxic Spikes (which can end up being vital if I have stall an enemy out with Swampert), and has hard time fitting itself anywhere else in the team if not in the lead slot. Smeargle is like a combination of all three, being unable to absorb opposing T-Spikes, being very frail, being very slow, etc. 100% accuracy sleep move is very nice though, although roserade's benefits outweight its negatives to me.

Smiling Swine
|
Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
EV's: 252 HP / 212 Def / 56 SpA
Ability: Torrent
  • Stealth Rock
  • Earthquake
  • Ice Beam
  • Roar

Set Analysis:
Every team loves Stealth Rock, and this team is no exception. Lucario teams love Stealth Rock especially, as it OHKO's really helps him turn 2HKO's into OHKO's. Anyway, Stealth Rock is everyone's favorite Mence and Gyara pseudo-check, and it also keeps stall from fucking around with too much switching, to an extent. Earthquake provides Swampert a 100 BP STAB move and turns him into my Tyranitar check. Ice Beam is for coverage; this combination hits the entire metagame for neutral or better damage, minus Bronzong. The 56 SpAtk EV's guarantee a KO on Salamence even without SR, which is cool. I'm another person who likes to parrot the statement "Swampert is the best Stealth Rocker in the game". With excellent typing and resistances, paired with his respectable defensive stats and resistance to Stealth Rock, Swampert not only has the ability to set up rocks both early and mid game, but he can also do it without suiciding or suffering from four moveslot syndrome. I'm considering Avalanche over Ice Beam to his Latias on her weaker stat, but I'm not sure if it's worth it due to Salamenace's intimidate. Overall, Swampert is great. Sadly, however, he does not fit well in the "murder stall" idea, but functionality is my first concern.


Other Stealth Rockers
The main pokemon I'm considering over Swampert is Bronzong. Specifically, I'm considering a SpD Bronzong with Payback / Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Explosion. First off, this gives me a Gengar counter, a pokemon who this team finds extremely annoying. Bronzong also still manages to check Salamenace and Tyranitar to an extent, although not as well. I do also lose my PHazer, and I really enjoy having a PHazer on this team to scout, rack up SR damage, and Roar stat-ups away. Need help on this one, guys.

Red Hands
|
Life Orb
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Ability: Levitate
  • Draco Meteor
  • Surf
  • Thunderbolt
  • Recover

Set Analysis:
Three attack Life Orb Latias. Draco Meteor is here to rape people and Surf and Thunderbolt can remove anybody who thinks otherwise. Latias was the last pokemon added to this team, as I was desperately weak to Infernape. Draco Meteor hurts everybody pretty bad, even Blissey, who takes a notable ~22%. She also has good defensive and offensive synergy with Lucario, resisting all of his weaknesses where he resists all her weaknesses. Offensively, Latias draws Pursuit like no other, which Lucario happily sets up on. Dragon + Water + Electric is irresistible, which is cool. Latias is also my all purpose Heatran check. She takes every on of his sets. She doesn't like facing Torment or SubToxic Trans, but she does beat them. She must be weary of Explosion, however.

Latias v. Starmie

|
Life Orb
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Honestly, this has been hardest decision for this team. I simply cannot decide which is better. First, their similarities: they are both running three attack sets. They are both pretty bulky. They both attract Pursuit, though Starmie to a lesser extent. The three attacks give good neutral coverage. They both have a form of instant recovery. Now the differences: Starmie is faster, but has a lower SpAtk. It is still a very good infernape check, but cannot switch in to Grass Knot, whereas Latias can take an HP Ice. Starmie does better against TTar and Scizor, but thats not necessarily a good thing since I want to attract Pursuits. Etc.



Black Sandy Beaches
|
Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpAtk
Ability: Levitate
  • Thunderbolt
  • Shadow Ball
  • Overheat
  • Trick

Set Analysis:
252 HP EV's are awesome. Rotom now takes random Dragon Pulses, Flamethrowers, etc. much more easily. Rotom-H doesn't really need the extra offensive power anyway, as he still OHKO's Gyarados and friends with Thunderbolt and Lucario, Mamoswine and friends with Overheat. It's worth noting that 252 HP EV's prevent Rotom from being 2HKO'd by Mamoswine, which is a godsend for my team. All in all I needed a revenge killer for certain threats and I was a T-Spike team lacking a spin blocker, so I killed two birds with one stone, by selecting a pokemon that covers most of the threats that I'm weak to, while also happening to be OU's best spin blocker. His typing, bulk, resistances, and respectable Special Attack and Speed make him an excellent utility for this team. Trick allows him to fit into the 'ruin stall' theme, as Blissey / Swampert etc. is useless with Choice Scarf.

City Escape
|
Life Orb
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Inner Focus
  • Close Combat
  • Swords Dance
  • Extremespeed
  • Crunch

Set Analysis:
Swords Dance Lucario, DPPt's premiere finisher, finds its way onto yet another team. All he needs is one mistake from a choiced pokemon to come in on a resisted move and then double his attack stat with Swords Dance and smack faces with his 120 Base Power STAB'd Close Combat and priority Extremespeed to make up for his below average speed. Crunch hits Ghost-type pokemon for super effective pokemon, who are immune to Close Combat and Extremespeed. Only one pokemon truly counters Lucario after a Swords Dance. The first and more common one is Gliscor, who has the ability to outspeed all variants of Lucario, resist Close Combat and take pittance from Extremespeed and OHKO it with STAB'd Earthquake. There are several other checks to Lucario, including Scarf Rotom, who OHKO's with Overheat, Scarf / Expert Belt Jirachi, the first of which KO's with Fire Punch after a Close Combat defense drop, and the latter of which KO's either way, Scarf Heatran, who is handled with little issue by Latias and her awesome base 130 SpD, Gyarados, who is handled by Rotom and Latias, and Salamence, who is taken care of by Latias, who comes in on Earthquake or Fire Blast. As for the murdering stall component, Lucario OHKO's every common member of stall besides Gyarados after a Swords Dance, and as mentioned before, I'm packing a Gyara counter in Rotom and a Gyara check in Latias.

Considering replacements:

Though Swords Dance Lucario has never really let me down, this team may benefit more from a better steal resist. As Heatran is already taking constand Stealth Rock and potentially Spike Damage, I cannot rely on him to wall powerful Outrages and Draco Meteors from the likes of Salamence and Latias. Though Lucario does also resist Dragon and takes only 3% from Stealth Rock damage, he simply isn't bulky enough to wall Dragon attacks, especially not repeatedly. I'm also questioning whether or not Swords Dance is the best variant of Lucario. Here is what I'm considering:

Special Bulky Metagross:
Similar to the one seen in Taylor's archived Losing is an Incapability, this Metagross would give me a much needed answer to Gengar and a way more reliable dragon resist. With Shuca Berry, he could also patch up my weakness to DD Salamence.

Choice Band Scizor:
In the same boat as metagross, Scizor gives me an answer to Gengar and a bulkier dragon resist, as well checking DD Salamence with Bullet Punch.

Choice Specs Lucario
I'm considering him the least, as he does not really patch up any of my weaknesses. I consider him though because he really hurts bulky offense with his strongth STAB'd Aura Sphere, which has perfect coverage with Shadow Ball. STAB Priority Vacuum Wave is also cool, and gives me a secondary check to opposing Lucario. Specs Luke also isn't walled as easily by Blissey with Toxic Spikes down.

The Tank
|
Life Orb
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Ability: Flash Fire
  • Fire Blast
  • Earth Power
  • Hidden Power Grass
  • Taunt

    Set Analysis:
    Finally, Life Orb Heatran. The amount of damage that even resistant pokemon take from Life Orb Fire Blast is astounding. Indeed, according to Vashta, who wrote the analysis on Heatran, and featured this very variant of it in his awesome Welcome Home is quoted as saying that "People often question the ability Heatran has to destroy opponents because of its slow Speed stat, but the fact of the matter is that there is no Pokémon, bar Blissey, that can switch-in on Heatran without getting 2HKOed from its Fire Blast which is remarkable, and one would think that it is of 'Uber proportions' – its STAB Fire Blast is certainly a danger to most." Earth Power and Hidden Power Grass round off this set, with Earth Power hitting opposing Heatran and other Fire-types where as Hidden Power Grass maims bulky Water-types. This set reaches it's peak potential, however, with two layers of Toxic Spikes down, because even Seismic Toss variants of Blissey are eventually beaten by Fire Blasts and Toxic Spikes, Lady Luck willing that Fire Blast hits repeatedly. Taunt completes this set, shutting down Rest-Talkers, stopping status moves, and preventing any form of healing except for Leftovers, which is what allows me to beat Blissey 1v1. I'll let damage calculations day the rest. Also quoting Vashta:

    For those who are picky about damage calculations that can attest for Heatran’s strong attacking power, here are the top ten calculations that are currently relevant to Heatran’s common switch-ins.

    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey: 27.73% - 32.77%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 0 HP / 0 SpD Adamant Gyarados: 38.37% - 45.32%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 0 HP / 0 SpD Naive Salamence: 51.66% - 60.73%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 4 HP / 0 SpD Jolly/Adamant Flygon: 50.66% - 59.60%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 0 HP / 4 SpD Timid Starmie: 55.17% - 65.52%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 136 HP / 0 SpD Timid Starmie: 49.49% - 58.31%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 136 SpD Bold Rotom-A: 69.41% - 82.24%
    Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Rotom-A: 87.27% - 102.91%
    Life Orb Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Vaporeon: 44.83% - 53.02%
    Life Orb Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Suicune: 44.06% - 51.98%
    And there you have it. The nicknames are derived from songs by a band named The Dear Hunter. Links to these songs, for those interested:

    Dear Ms. Leading - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhFEzuODEYs
    Smiling Swine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAjB3Hw248
    Red Hands - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc6fxV_vX5I
    Black Sandy Beaches - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xlCIGZr1g
    City Escape - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqQ7kRj-vqY
    The Tank - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFVcEy-b41Y

    GO GO SMOGON, RMT!!!!!!

 
Forretres in your thought process is spelled wrong. Edit: Actually, Forretres is spelled wrong throughout your rate, and Swampert is spelled wrong in your thought process.

Take Latias over Starmie, as Latias is more powerful, has plenty enough speed, and has better overall coverage (along with a ton more power) with Draco Meteor. Starmie's main high point is a STAB with Surf, but Draco Meteor is more important.
 
I use avalanche on my pert and it works pretty well, don't worry about intimidate because you can still ohko mence if he attacks you. And if he tries to set up instead you can just roar. I'd keep it instead of changing to Bronzong too
 
Rotom doesn't need that spread.

Rotom-H @ Choice scarf
Modest (+ Sp atk, - Atk)
156 HP / 124 spA / 228 spe
Levitate
Overheat
Shadow ball
Trick
Thunderbolt

Speed evs allow rotom to beat all base 130's including jolly max speed breloom and adamant max spe mamoswine after tricking them a scarf. Maximum lefties point after getting a leftovers through tricking the scarf which is one of the most common items in todays metagame and 128 Sp atk is a jump point and is able to OHKO standard mamo with overheat IIRC. Rotom doesn't need timid as he is scarfed with specific speed evs that allow him to outspeed what needs to be outsped, and modest gives him an extra kick attack-wise. Tbolt is the main STAB on the set as well as shadow ball. They have almost unresisted coverage and overheat covers almost everything else.

Does just fine and still takes the attacks you need with 156 HP.
 
this is a pretty solid team, a few comments

do not put avalanche on swampert, since ice beam also allows you to hit gliscor better

about latias vs starmie:
id personally go with latias, but not that latias, try this one:
Latias@Life Orb
Levitate
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Recover

Latias is bulkier than starmie, so thats the biggest reason. The reason i recommend HP fire over surf is because a STAB draco meteor hits harder than a SE surf anyways. HP fire allows you to KO scizor who want to pursuit you. latias dies to tyranitar either way so meh =/.
Latias is bulkier than starmie, but it also has the bigger surprise element (well until you attack of course). its got a lot more resistances than starmie, including many that heatran and lucario want.

BUT

id change rotom to:
Rotom@Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
Bold
-Will-o-Wisp/Reflect
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
and then change latias to your scarfer

why? because rotom needs to stay alive if its your spin blocker. being locked onto 1 move makes it very susceptible to being revenge killed, and then boom, no tspikes.
 
id change rotom to:
Rotom@Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
Bold
-Will-o-Wisp/Reflect
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
and then change latias to your scarfer

why? because rotom needs to stay alive if its your spin blocker. being locked onto 1 move makes it very susceptible to being revenge killed, and then boom, no tspikes.
No. Scarfrotom can still function well as a spin blocker with good prediction. But if he would also rather a defensive spread then i suggest using this one;

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Sp Atk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-o-wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Overheat/Scarf are the downfall to rotom being a spin blocker as he then becomes massive pursuit bait when he's supposed to be a check to scizor. Will-O-Wisp and Thunderbolt were essential to be an effective check to Scizor and Metagross. By utilizing Resttalk, it can absorb status and outstall Blissey if need be. Even though it cannot be hit with Thunderbolt. WoW works well for still dealing with scizor and TTar.

As for the Ev's, 252 were placed in Hp because Rotom needs all the Hp he can get. At 304, this is Leftovers number, but also a Sandstorm number. Since Stealth Rock will not be on the field too often, the extra damage that would result from it is not a concern. A Bold nature and 160 Ev's were used so that Scizor and others can be dealt with more efficiently before the WoW. It also gives a bonus point with the nature. The rest was placed into SAtk for more power (enough to OHKO 4 Hp Starmie from full health with Thunderbolt) and a confident 2HKO on Vaporeon. You can consider placing the extra Ev's in special defense to absorb water attacks better, but the Ev's currently had to spare along with the physical defense needed for Rotom to perform his duty made this an impractical goal.

Credit to this set goes to Kingdrom.
 
Rotom doesn't need that spread.

Rotom-H @ Choice scarf
Modest (+ Sp atk, - Atk)
156 HP / 124 spA / 228 spe
Levitate
Overheat
Shadow ball
Trick
Thunderbolt

Speed evs allow rotom to beat all base 130's including jolly max speed breloom and adamant max spe mamoswine after tricking them a scarf. Maximum lefties point after getting a leftovers through tricking the scarf which is one of the most common items in todays metagame and 128 Sp atk is a jump point and is able to OHKO standard mamo with overheat IIRC. Rotom doesn't need timid as he is scarfed with specific speed evs that allow him to outspeed what needs to be outsped, and modest gives him an extra kick attack-wise. Tbolt is the main STAB on the set as well as shadow ball. They have almost unresisted coverage and overheat covers almost everything else.

Does just fine and still takes the attacks you need with 156 HP.
Thanks, cool spread. As long it isn't 2HKO'd by Mamoswine in any way. I'll definitely be using that spread on all my Scarf Rotom from now on.

this is a pretty solid team, a few comments

do not put avalanche on swampert, since ice beam also allows you to hit gliscor better

about latias vs starmie:
id personally go with latias, but not that latias, try this one:
Latias@Life Orb
Levitate
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Recover

Latias is bulkier than starmie, so thats the biggest reason. The reason i recommend HP fire over surf is because a STAB draco meteor hits harder than a SE surf anyways. HP fire allows you to KO scizor who want to pursuit you. latias dies to tyranitar either way so meh =/.
Latias is bulkier than starmie, but it also has the bigger surprise element (well until you attack of course). its got a lot more resistances than starmie, including many that heatran and lucario want.

I'm reluctant to remove Surf because then Latias doesn't counter Heatran and I also don't want to resort to Draco Meteor to take out Infernape.

BUT

id change rotom to:
Rotom@Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
Bold
-Will-o-Wisp/Reflect
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
and then change latias to your scarfer

why? because rotom needs to stay alive if its your spin blocker. being locked onto 1 move makes it very susceptible to being revenge killed, and then boom, no tspikes.

Not necessary, really. I've never had any problems using Scarf Rotom as a spin blocker at all.
 
I got your PM, so let's take a look. Pretty solid, just a few tweaks.

First off, I think Starmie is a better fit for your team. It's a better check to Heatran, and it doesn't auto lose to trappers after firing off it's best attack. I would also suggest using that Metagross over Lucario, to help patch up your issues with hard hitting Dragons.

Other than that, I'd be playing with the synergy too much, so that's all for now. I might edit in some more later, but for now, Good Luck!
 
Im sorry if this is completely obvious, but a lead LumGross completely owns roserade. The fact that you can't put it to sleep first turn, and that it can Meteor Mash followed by Bullet Punch means that you'll be set back, and won't have any Toxic Spikes up. Knowing that, your response would probably be to HP fire, it, but we both know many Meta's carry Occa berry's (Or whatever berry reduces fire) and that HP fire won't KO in one shot. Believe me i know from experience. I have but Two suggestions to solve this problem.
First I would say start with swampert instead, but then you would be doing so only to counter Metagross, and lose to Roserade leads,(which would outspeed your roserade anyway, if they where HP ground varients, putting you to sleep).
My second seggestion isn't so much a team changing suggestion, more of a playstyle suggestion, Basically what I'm saying is that, when you're faced with a metagross lead switch to Pert right away, and go from there.
Overall good typing and synergy. And I laughed at how heatran looks like it's taking a dump.... sorry had to say it....
 
Oh and just another nitpick, roserade should be running hp ground to beat leadtran after you put it to sleep as well as ape/and other rare UU leads like nidoqueen. It also beats occa berry metagross as lum berry is pretty uncommon.
 
OK really nice team and thanks for the PM ill see what i can do.

The first thing that stands out in this team is your complete inability to switch into any Dragon attacks or revenging any dragons and in this metagame that is not a good situatation to be in.

The solution is changing your Lucario into a Swords Dance Scizor with the support (Zapdos and Gyarados get destroyed by Heatran and Latias) you currently provide for Lucario it should be easy enough to sweep with Scizor.

Im simply going to suggest the set from the analysis but you could use a more Sp.Def spread if you wish:

Scizor @ Leftovers/Iron Plate
Adamant
248hp / 200atk / 56spe or 252 Atk / 160 Hp / 88 SpD / 12 Spe

Swords Dance
Superpower
Bullet Punch
Roost

Iron Plate helps a lot with revenging Mence on higher Hp not only that it also bluffs a Band. Leftovers allow you to more easily set up against bulky waters and switch into Latias.

Of course you lose out on power with this suggestion but it can easily set up against both Latias and Bulky Waters something which Lucario dreams of and as long as you can avoid a Will o Wisp this set destroy stall especially coupled with Taunt Heatran.
 
Im sorry if this is completely obvious, but a lead LumGross completely owns roserade. The fact that you can't put it to sleep first turn, and that it can Meteor Mash followed by Bullet Punch means that you'll be set back, and won't have any Toxic Spikes up. Knowing that, your response would probably be to HP fire, it, but we both know many Meta's carry Occa berry's (Or whatever berry reduces fire) and that HP fire won't KO in one shot. Believe me i know from experience. I have but Two suggestions to solve this problem.
First I would say start with swampert instead, but then you would be doing so only to counter Metagross, and lose to Roserade leads,(which would outspeed your roserade anyway, if they where HP ground varients, putting you to sleep).
My second seggestion isn't so much a team changing suggestion, more of a playstyle suggestion, Basically what I'm saying is that, when you're faced with a metagross lead switch to Pert right away, and go from there.
If you bothered to read the description under Roserade: "Any sensible player carries Lum Berry on their lead Metagross these days, and Rose is 2HKO'd by EQ + Bullet Punch. In this case, I switch to Swampert as they EQ or SR. If they EQ'd they'll likely set up Rocks and switch, so I'll set up rocks and Roar. If they SR'd, I go to Rotom to take the explosion."

Oh and just another nitpick, roserade should be running hp ground to beat leadtran after you put it to sleep as well as ape/and other rare UU leads like nidoqueen. It also beats occa berry metagross as lum berry is pretty uncommon.
I'll try HP Ground, but then I sort of lose the ability to set up on Forry because he will just Spin when he wakes up.

OK really nice team and thanks for the PM ill see what i can do.

The first thing that stands out in this team is your complete inability to switch into any Dragon attacks or revenging any dragons and in this metagame that is not a good situatation to be in.

The solution is changing your Lucario into a Swords Dance Scizor with the support (Zapdos and Gyarados get destroyed by Heatran and Latias) you currently provide for Lucario it should be easy enough to sweep with Scizor.

Im simply going to suggest the set from the analysis but you could use a more Sp.Def spread if you wish:

Scizor @ Leftovers/Iron Plate
Adamant
248hp / 200atk / 56spe or 252 Atk / 160 Hp / 88 SpD / 12 Spe

Swords Dance
Superpower
Bullet Punch
Roost

Iron Plate helps a lot with revenging Mence on higher Hp not only that it also bluffs a Band. Leftovers allow you to more easily set up against bulky waters and switch into Latias.

Of course you lose out on power with this suggestion but it can easily set up against both Latias and Bulky Waters something which Lucario dreams of and as long as you can avoid a Will o Wisp this set destroy stall especially coupled with Taunt Heatran.
I'm reluctant to use SD Scizor because of past experience with it sucking the big one. I'll give it another chance though, but I don't see what this has over CB Scizor, or over Special Bulky Metagross for my teams needs.
 
cool team, I only see a few tweaks it could use here and there to help you beat the annoying dragons (which imo can't really take you on anyways because they lose too much health trying to switch into shit like lo fire blasts). the first thing I want you to do is switch hp fire for hp ice on roserade, for a few reasons. firstly, it lets you get the leg up on other roserades by using a 31 speed iv rather than 30. secondly, if you've slept something, chances are a dragon is going to come in (people try and switch them in every chance they get for some reason), meaning you can sash live against things like mixmence and take them out right off the bat. In my experience, I've found dragons and enemy roserades to be much more common switchins to roserade than forretresses (and they only have enough time to sleep and then spin if they lead, which is even rarer), and you can set up then go to heatran and 2hko something with fire blast (or pound latias coming in).

I also think you should go with lo starmie over latias. not only is it faster, but its stab move doesn't force it to switch out, allowing you to sweep much more easily, and with lotran already weakening waters, starmie has a very easy time sweeping, meaning you have more options when you're making your lategame plan. in addition, you can ohko scizor with a tiny amount of residual damage, meaning it has nowhere to come in, making it fairly useless against you (this isn't a huge thing, but being pretty much up 6-5 just because the opponent chose to use scizor is a nice thing). You said yourself that latias was just slapped on for the mixape weak, which starmie can help you fix anyways (not switching into grass knot is sad, but you also have rotom to switch into that, as rotom can also ko ape after it's taken some residual damage). what starmie does that latias can't, however, is sweep. when you've got lotran on the team (and his sole purpose in life is to weaken waters), why the hell not? you lose out a little bit on pursuit bait, but you lose out on it by.... beating the pursuiters, which isn't exactly a bad thing lol.

I'm not sure what else to tell you, because this team is solid and I don't want to make changes for the sake of making changes. I think you should test out starmie (in your thread you say you're contemplating it anyways), because it seems a very good fit for the team.

cheers!
 
Bearing in mind that a Sleep Powder miss can screw Roserade up i think it would be worth looking into some alternative ev spreads that allow it to survive 2 bullet punches from Metagross.

The HP option is: 96HP/0Def

or

the def option: 0HP/52Def

I would go with the def option as you lose less out on sp.atk and hp isnt really that useful especially when you have a sash.

Did you try out Scizor if so how is it going?
 
Bearing in mind that a Sleep Powder miss can screw Roserade up i think it would be worth looking into some alternative ev spreads that allow it to survive 2 bullet punches from Metagross.

The HP option is: 96HP/0Def

or

the def option: 0HP/52Def

I would go with the def option as you lose less out on sp.atk and hp isnt really that useful especially when you have a sash.

Did you try out Scizor if so how is it going?
I haven't tried it out yet. So far I've tested Special Defensive CB Scizor and Special Defensive Metagross. I'll try SD Scizor today.
 
Hey thanks for the PM request. Sorry about the tardiness--let's just say I've had maybe 7 hours of sleep over the course of 3 days.

Aaaaanyway, the team. Looks pretty good. I'll start with the small stuff.

First off, Roserade. A commonly overlooked fact is that Metagross can easily 2HKO with Bullet Punch, while absorbing a potential Sleep Powder due to Lum, which I am seeing more and more of. An easy fix for this is to make Roserade's EV Spread 80 HP, 176 SpA, 252 Spe, which guarantee's that you won't be 2hkoed by even max attack Bullet Punch from Metagross. I never noticed the loss of power as an issue, but I know I've been frustrated by Lum Berry or a Sleep Powder miss as Metagross B-punchs. HP Ground is also a viable option over Fire for opposing Heatran, who you probably want to get out of the picture quickly.

Swampert, standard and good. You mention that Swampert doesn't really "fit in" with the whole murder stall idea. While you would lose your phazing capabilities, an option over Roar that I have found effective is Hydro Pump. This way, Swampert isn't just a free switch for Skarmory to come in and set up some spikes. Definitely something to try in my opinion. I would run some damage calcs for the EV spread though.

As for Latias v Starmie, I would definitely go with Latias in this case. While both counter Infernape and Starmie can heavily damage Tyranitar and Scizor with Hydro Pump, you rightly notice that Heatran can be a big problem without Latias.

Given your issues with Gengar, and the fact that Luke doesn't really contribute a whole lot to the team's bulk, I would definitely go with the masses and consider Scizor. It goes without saying that Scizor is a really great pair with Heatran, and with a Specially Defensive CBScizor you can pursuit common counters like Starmie and Latias. My personal spread for this kind of Scizor is 160 HP, 176 Atk, 168 SpDef, 4 Spe. With this spread you can take on the same stuff as heavily special defensive Scizors, only better because you retain most of the power of max attack CB, which helps against Salamence.

As a general caution, you need to watch out for Lucario. CSRotom is extremely easy to pursuit, and without it you are looking at a no questions asked Luke sweep. There's not much you can do about this without making some drastic changes which I don't believe are necessary as long as you are always wary of the threat.

Well, I hope I helped a little. Good luck!
 

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