Offensive Weezing

[gabriel]

Despite the thread title, my goal here is to discuss if a defensive Weezing made to physical walling can afford the loss of WoW and STAB for a better coverage, here what I suggest:

Weezing @leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp.Atk
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Pain Split

Now there's nothing to complain about. You can take steel types and Heracross with Flamethrower, Gyarados with TBolt, and Chomp/Mence/Nite with HP Ice.

Pain Split is a need, otherwise you won't be able to take many hits, so maybe it's better to give up STAB for threat coverage and I'm still in doubt about WoW. Can the floating balls afford the loss of the burning inducer move? Discuss.

 

[forbidden]

There's already a set for Special attacking, rather..mix with Explosion for Blissey.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/weezing

 

[Blue Harvest]

I used a Life Orb Weezing, with Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp. Bold with 252 HP and defense EVs.

It works ok. The extra damage is nice, but Leftovers kept it around much longer.


What item does your set have?

 

[Little Green Yoda]

There's already a set for Special attacking, rather..mix with Explosion for Blissey.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/weezing

I run that. Lack of WoW has only hurt me in rare cases. Most opponents are going to either switch out in fear of WoW or Taunt it anyway.

 

[gabriel]

@forbidden: I know that, don't you think I wouldn't at least read the analysis before posting about a pokemon moveset? The Weezing I want is a physical wall, so please consider the first set. This is the one I'm suggesting a moveset change.

@Blue Harvest: That's kinda the Weezing I want, but I still prefer leftovers over LO because, after all, this is a wall, not a sweeper.

I'll post EVs and hold item, to clear any doubts about what kind of set I'm focusing.

 

[forbidden]

Problems I see with this already. First, max sp.atk positive nature hp ice will do 96% on 0/0 garchomp while OHKOing Standard Gyarados.

But since you want a defensive set. You'd have to split the evs between hp/def or drop the sp.atk. With weezing crappy hp, you'd most likely go mainly hp which but then it wouldn't have as much defensive capabilities. With Bold or Relaxed, you miss having a chance to OHKO gyarados with thunderbolt also missing the chance to nearly OHKO garchomp with Stealth rock, also OHKOing Dragonite is no longer garrenteed and any kinda hp investment on the dragons will make them survive.

There's also the issue of running weezing without a stab. Sludge Bomb is more useful than Flamethrower imo since it still hits grass types its a stab.

So either you run near max sp.atk and cripple weezing's walling capbilities or have good defenses and low offence. The Analysis has already covered both. You can however aim for OHKO with thunder and fire blast so you don't need to spend that much EV.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Bugs take neutral damage from Sludge Bomb.

 

[forbidden]

Ooops, was thinking of breloom then heracross and got messed up. Will fix. Still I think Weezing should use a stab. Bolt beam doesn't cover everything. =\

Heracross wouldn't stay in on weezing anyways.

 

[Fenikkusu]

Many grass pokemon take neutral from sludge bomb too.

 

[Arzamo]

Bolt-beam doesn't cover everything, but Poison STAB is horrible. The only thing that resists Bolt-beam (Magnezone) is also immune to Poison, too. Weezing does not need STAB because it is designed to counter specific Pokémon with coverage rather than to hit hard.

 

[Aldaron]

I used the defensive Weezing's Evs with that moveset, except I had Will-o-wisp in place of Pain Split. Meaning I used 252 HP / 252 Def Bold, and Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, HP Ice and Will-o-wisp.

My reasoning for this was that I wasn't guaranteed a OHKO anyway, and for Weezing, stability is extraordinarily important.

Also, I hate Pain Split as a recovery move, because it is so unreliable. I had Wish support in the form of Vaporeon on that team, and this Weezing set was good enough.

Hey, anything that helps me beat dragons / Gyarados / Heracross / Lucario simultaneously is worth consideration, right?

 

[Karrot]

You shouldn't even be trying to get the OHKO with this; a 2HKO is just as good as you do not have to sacrifice so much of your defensive capabilities. Probably the only reason you are using Weezing in the first place is for its defensive capabilities.

EDIT: Heh, I got beaten to the punch by Aldaron.

 

[shadydentist]

Weezing never needs stab. Thunderbolt is for weezing, hp ice is for dragons, and fire is for bugs and steels mostly. Typically, most grass types are special attacking, and Weezing won't like staying in.

 

[forbidden]

You shouldn't even be trying to get the OHKO with this; a 2HKO is just as good as you do not have to sacrifice so much of your defensive capabilities. Probably the only reason you are using Weezing in the first place is for its defensive capabilities.

EDIT: Heh, I got beaten to the punch by Aldaron.

With the standard set, it already 2HKOs those stuff so I assume Gabriel wants something different which is why I mentioned the possibility of OHKOing. =\

 

[Magmortified]

The only thing that resists Bolt-beam (Magnezone) is also immune to Poison, too. Weezing does not need STAB because it is designed to counter specific Pokémon with coverage rather than to hit hard.

Dost thou forgetting Lanturn?

And Magnezone (Maggy, or whatever nicknames make use of only the first three letters is reserved for Magmortar. Which I consider much awesomer... if that's a word.) doesn't really take Flamethrower.

 

[Toothache]

Shedinja also resists Bolt-beam (well it's immune to both). Not gonna like Fire moves either, so Lanturn is probably the better counter.

 

[gabriel]

You're right forbidden, but in fact, I prefer a defensive set and 2KOing threats over power. Something worthy to consider is that Gyarados will probably be OHKOed with no Sp.Atk investment if it was damaged by SR, am I right?

I think using Sludge Bomb is out of question. Flamethrower > SB. What is still unsure is if HP Ice worths WoW. I mean, Chomp/Mence/Nite will probably have setup on the switch, or even cause CB Damage. Weezing probably won't have time to afford a 2KO on those situations, so it looks better to burn them and hopefully take a 3rd move to stall with Pain Split. Even if you don't, they're still crippled for the rest of the match.

Little Green Yoda said WoW isn't really necessary for him, could you please explain why?

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Well, I run a fairly offensive based team, so my Weezing needs and your Weezing needs probably don't match perfectly. I might give WoW a try over HP Ice sometime but my main issue is WoW's less than stellar accuracy.

There really haven't been many instances where I feel one would be superior than the other (except for SubChomp and lategame SD Lucario respectively). HP Ice isn't really as unexpected than WoW so most things that fear one or the other will switch out if possible usually.

 

[animenagai]

i like this little change of roles. i played this guy on shoddy with a purely offensive team. his offensive dusknoir gave me HEAPS of problems.

 

[Draco Meteor]

I ran a set like that before, but used hidden power (Ground) or Ice, since usually Heatran would switch in hoping for a Flash Fire boost.

 

[jujuomi]

Bolt-beam doesn't cover everything, but Poison STAB is horrible. The only thing that resists Bolt-beam (Magnezone) is also immune to Poison, too. Weezing does not need STAB because it is designed to counter specific Pokémon with coverage rather than to hit hard.

Tsk tsk lanturn is p/o.

 

[Anti]

196 HP / 252 Defense / 60 SpA is preffered due to reasons broken down here.

 

[Gandalf the blue]

Weezing cant drop WoW as Pokemon like Tyranitar, which would normally run away from him, can stay in and take laughable damage.
I thought about HP Ground aswell, but Heatran isnt worth losing one important attack. You could just add Dugtrio to solve the problem.
Further Weezing has already small defenses compared to Skarmory, Hippo etc, so it wont be the best idea to reduce it even more

 

[cim]

I'd drop Pain Split for WoW because Weezing is best when he sets things on fire and Pain Split is rather situational and/or blows dick. He needs wish support anyway so why not give him a good crippler?

 

[Arzamo]

Weezing cant drop WoW as Pokemon like Tyranitar, which would normally run away from him, can stay in and take laughable damage.
I thought about HP Ground aswell, but Heatran isnt worth losing one important attack. You could just add Dugtrio to solve the problem.
Further Weezing has already small defenses compared to Skarmory, Hippo etc, so it wont be the best idea to reduce it even more

Dugtrio does not solve the Heatran problem unless it's a revenge-kill on a non-ScarfTran. Heatran always special attacks, anyways, so Weezing isn't going to be staying in on something faster that can OHKO it. HP Ground is not worth a moveslot.