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np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
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LolFroslass with lolSnowCloak
snow cloak (try para-cloak frosslass if you don't believe me), and ok, kyurem can abuse 100 acc blizzards, but outside of it tell me other abusers that use more than blizzard, if using blizzard is all, then nidoking is an abuser, and so is mew, snow cloack and ice body are thing you can use on hail other than that which means is not worth banning it (hail, not Kyurem, he is a BL bastard)
CB U-Turn vs Neutral Natured Houndoom: 56.7% - 67%
CB U-Turn vs -Def Natured Houndoom: 63.2% - 74.6%
Any decent player isn't going to throw out V-Create from the start, they U-Turn around. Team preview also makes it harder for Houndoom to counter it.
Honestly, Drought offense is really good. I would like to say that Charizard is probably the best abuser, tied with Victini.
Solar Powerzard is amazing. The standard set is as follows:
Charizard @ Choice Specs, Solar Power
Timid, 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 SPe
-Fire Blast
-Focus Blast, but you don't use it
-Air...Slash?
-SolarBeam, lol?
With Solar Power, Specs, and Sunlight, you getSTAB Double STAB Triple STAB quadruple motherfucking STAB on a really strong Fire Blast. That's not good, it's OHKO physically defensive Slowbro with a not very effective move good.
Calcs:
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Slowbro: 88.3%-104.3% (OHKO w/Rocks holy shit)
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Suicune 63.6%-75%, (2KO, OHKO with a fuckton of entry hazards)
RapeZard Solarbeam vs. 252/0 Suicune: 113.4% - 133.7% (OHKO)
RapeZard Air Slash vs. 0/0 Houndoom: 100.3% - 118.6% (OHKO)
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/176+ Eviolite Dusclops: 85.9% - 101.4% (Probable OHKO with SR)
This thing is stopped by Kingdra, kind of. I bet a coverage move is a clean 2KO. This thing is basically unstoppable, as it pretty much 2KOs the metagame without prediction unless the opponent has a Flash Fire mon or something. Move over Band Victini, SpecsZard probably OHKOs you with a not very effective attack.
Solar Powerzard is amazing. The standard set is as follows:
Charizard @ Choice Specs, Solar Power
Timid, 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 SPe
-Fire Blast
-Focus Blast, but you don't use it
-Air...Slash?
-SolarBeam, lol?
With Solar Power, Specs, and Sunlight, you get
Calcs:
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Slowbro: 88.3%-104.3% (OHKO w/Rocks holy shit)
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Suicune 63.6%-75%, (2KO, OHKO with a fuckton of entry hazards)
RapeZard Solarbeam vs. 252/0 Suicune: 113.4% - 133.7% (OHKO)
RapeZard Air Slash vs. 0/0 Houndoom: 100.3% - 118.6% (OHKO)
RapeZard Fire Blast vs. 252/176+ Eviolite Dusclops: 85.9% - 101.4% (Probable OHKO with SR)
This thing is stopped by Kingdra, kind of. I bet a coverage move is a clean 2KO. This thing is basically unstoppable, as it pretty much 2KOs the metagame without prediction unless the opponent has a Flash Fire mon or something. Move over Band Victini, SpecsZard probably OHKOs you with a not very effective attack.
If Victini is throwing around U-Turns then it isnt tearing through your team. moot point.
EDIT: @above, the biggest issu with Zard is survivability. With a crap speed its taking big damage to go with the Solar Power damage, and with the Scarf blitx on teams many things outspeed it.
EDIT: @above, the biggest issu with Zard is survivability. With a crap speed its taking big damage to go with the Solar Power damage, and with the Scarf blitx on teams many things outspeed it.
Since when is Base 100 Speed noted as "crap"?
crap in terms of a sweeper intending to kill the entire opposing team. With the numerous pokemon residing in the 105-130 base speed tiers (i.e. Mismagius, Raikou, Aero, Jolteon, Azelf etc) and the numeruous Scarfers populating the tier, as well as things like SB Sharpedo, 100 bas speed is indeed crap for a sweeper that loses health every turn and is thus vulnerable to such speed, and priority.
Nothing wrong with those options, probably the best with limited sand and with team preview you should be able to tell if your about to face a hail team..and if you are facing a hail team, there probably wouldnt be any other reason to use any other move than fireblast
People have known that Charizard is potentially the hardest hitter in the game for a while now. Why don't people use it? Simply put, it switches into SR, uses an attack, and is forced out. Now it's death fodder :( There's a point where such severe overkill is just not worth it.
@ above few posts.
Same deal with Victini, except without the Solar Power dilemma. Victini has the same "crap speed" (which is far from crap. If playing against a pretty defensive team then you WILL be killing stuff...), a SR weakness, even worse defensive typing, and has to switch after hitting because of v-create's drops.
Same deal with Victini, except without the Solar Power dilemma. Victini has the same "crap speed" (which is far from crap. If playing against a pretty defensive team then you WILL be killing stuff...), a SR weakness, even worse defensive typing, and has to switch after hitting because of v-create's drops.
Azure Demon
Guest
Can solar power zard get roost? If so it might be able to hang around longer, especially with some dual screen love.
Come on guys, crap speed? Really? 100 is the speed tier in UU: Zapdos, Victini, Charizard, Celebi, Shaymin, Flygon, Staraptor, Mew; the only reason the 100 base Speed tier doesn't matter anymore in OU is because of Trollchomp and the fact that all of the fuckers that have it are now UU.
Charizard's only real enemy in UU is Stealth Rock, which I admit is a huge nemesis, but more than worth it for KOing the entire tier in two or less hits. Kingdra's not even a counter, btw; it gets 2HKOed by Fire Blast or Air Slash switching in, OHKOed by Dragon Pulse if you're not running Specs, etc. The best it can do is come in on the revenge and cancel out the Rain.
Charizard's only real enemy in UU is Stealth Rock, which I admit is a huge nemesis, but more than worth it for KOing the entire tier in two or less hits. Kingdra's not even a counter, btw; it gets 2HKOed by Fire Blast or Air Slash switching in, OHKOed by Dragon Pulse if you're not running Specs, etc. The best it can do is come in on the revenge and cancel out the Rain.
No.
That is true, since charizard speed tie with victini, and while SR hurts like hell, any good drought team has a spinner (mostly donphan or Hipmontop) to get rid of rocks, with the right spreed zard can swich once and kill, if lucky and if no rocks then he can come and rape more things than victini, Drought is just to much for UU considering that:
- Makes Fire types really powerfull (Victini and Charizard are a prove)
- Growth + Chlorophyll is basically a shell smash without defense drop (and many grass types have both)
- Water type becomes almost useless unless overprepared to drought
- Moonlight and Morning Sun heal 66% (now se CM cresselia sweep a team and espeon says hello, you know Magic Bounce espeon, the gut that says f*** u to rocks)
- A well built drought team can easily kill any other weather (vulpix or other fire pokes kill aboma and any grass kills hipo)
Vulpix, even if is just a waste of a teamslot helps the team in a way to powerful way (something not sand nor hail do)
And don't tell me that those weathers are broken, they are powerfull, and I HATE perma-weather, but sand nor hail has given me any reason why it should be banned while drought has big enough supporting powers and powering stuff to overkill everything neutral to fire/grass (so only fire and dragon types are safe, that measn, stuff overpowered on sun and brokyurem, kindra and flygon are neutral and you better not joke about altaria or the other dragon)
- Makes Fire types really powerfull (Victini and Charizard are a prove)
- Growth + Chlorophyll is basically a shell smash without defense drop (and many grass types have both)
- Water type becomes almost useless unless overprepared to drought
- Moonlight and Morning Sun heal 66% (now se CM cresselia sweep a team and espeon says hello, you know Magic Bounce espeon, the gut that says f*** u to rocks)
- A well built drought team can easily kill any other weather (vulpix or other fire pokes kill aboma and any grass kills hipo)
Vulpix, even if is just a waste of a teamslot helps the team in a way to powerful way (something not sand nor hail do)
And don't tell me that those weathers are broken, they are powerfull, and I HATE perma-weather, but sand nor hail has given me any reason why it should be banned while drought has big enough supporting powers and powering stuff to overkill everything neutral to fire/grass (so only fire and dragon types are safe, that measn, stuff overpowered on sun and brokyurem, kindra and flygon are neutral and you better not joke about altaria or the other dragon)
I think that's the problem. Maybe it's just me, but I've always been much more comfortable using Charizard as a wall-breaker role similar to how someone would use LO Hydreigon in OU (complete with even worse speed than Charizard and everything): come in on something that's slower, spam Fire Blast, poke holes in opposing teams, and let something faster like Victreebel or Sawsbuck clean up.
Stealth Rock does put a bit of a hamper on that, but any good Drought team should have keeping Rocks off the field as a primary goal anyways, with or without Charizard.
Trust me, I'm not trying to downplay the fact that Stealth Rock is just the absolute bane of Charizard's existence. But if you're running a Drought team and you're not well equipped to at least attempt to deal with Stealth Rock (due to anywhere from 1-2, maybe even 3 fire sweepers on your team), you're not running a good Drought team imo.
Azure Demon
Guest
This was actually about to be my go to point. It seems many people here are forgetting just last gen about a certain bird named moltres who despite it's 4x rock weakness managed to be a potent threat in UU and it only has a base speed of 90.
Everywhere you saw moltres you saw 2 things a spinner and a lanturn (this one may only apply to me though.lol). I don't expect it to be any different with zard especially since if a person is running zard on a drought team they are guaranteed to have at least 2 fire types on their team. As long as zard has someone who can keep rocks off the field I don't see why he wouldn't be able to blow stuff up.
Why use that instead of.. Hipmonlee?Gerard said:
trollface.jpg
ANYWAYS, to make this post serious, I'd like to add that I use a Charizard in my Drought team - I use this set:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Timid
Solar Power
252Spe/252SpA/4HP
HP-Electric
Air Slash
Flamethrower
Solarbeam
It's good and all, and OHKO's nearly everything I use it against, but.. may I ask how you get Dragon Pulse on it? It doesn't learn it via level-up IIRC.
Azure Demon
Guest
Egg move in this gen
isn't the dreamworld charmander male?
if it is then its illegal to have solar power plus dragon pulse.
if it is then its illegal to have solar power plus dragon pulse.
Which makes it illegal with Solar Power.
(DW Charizard is male only as of now and male DW cannot pass down their abilities through breeding, only females can)
Oh hai everyone. I started playing again now that school is over, and I figured I'd share some initial impressions of the metagame so far.
Sun: I admit that I ran a team tailored to deal with sun after reading all the hoopla about it, so that might have some influence over my opinion, but I found them very very easy to deal with. There are a couple of Pokemon that outright counter almost the entire playstyle (I used defensive DD altaria with cloud nine...yeah), and in general infinite sun isn't that difficult to deal with simply because it's either going to give a power boost (to the fire members) or a speed boost (to the grass members), not both. You might say "but charizard!", but seriously, just get your fucking rocks down and charizard ceases to be an issue because it can no longer come in on anything without immediately dying to residual damage and solar power.
Sun was difficult to deal with at times, particularly when I let a grass-type member set up, but I can honestly say that I had more difficulty dealing with 4th gen rain at the height of its power than I do with sun right now.
Hail: Hail in 5th gen is almost exactly the same as 4th gen hail, except instead of a dead weight pokemon they now have a mediocre pokemon to set up hail. Oh and I guess they have access to a 660 BST dragon...uh....okay so maybe it's a little different. But seriously, Kyurem was the only difficult part of dealing with hail teams, and it wasn't THAT bad - I had Cobalion on my team, a reliable stealth rock user, and priority, so I was able to deal with it sufficiently well. I'd be open to suggestions that it is broken though, simply because that Draco Meteor is just absurd if you don't have any steel types.
Victini: I didn't run into this little thing outside sun very much, but its sheer power both inside and outside sun is concerning. I actually switched Arcanine's ability to Flash Fire just for Victini, because even with Intimidate it was 2hkoing me after rocks -___- It also has excellent stats to abuse with its signature move, and decent coverage options. At least we probably don't have to worry about this since it's going to OU anyway.
Jynx: Jynx sucks ;__; Wait, actually it could be really good in hail! Why aren't you guys using jynx!
Metagame in general: I am really enjoying myself with this metagame. It's really interesting to see previously top OU threats mixing it up with old UU veterans and all these new faces. I've taken a particular liking to Suicune and Cobalion especially, and I have feeling that UU will be oriented around bulky, resistance-based offense once again.
Oh, in case anyone was wondering, my team is Celebi (offensive SR lead)/Cobalion (bulky SD)/Suicune (crocune)/Hitmontop (techtop)/Arcanine (CB Arcanine)/Altaria (bulky DD)
Sun: I admit that I ran a team tailored to deal with sun after reading all the hoopla about it, so that might have some influence over my opinion, but I found them very very easy to deal with. There are a couple of Pokemon that outright counter almost the entire playstyle (I used defensive DD altaria with cloud nine...yeah), and in general infinite sun isn't that difficult to deal with simply because it's either going to give a power boost (to the fire members) or a speed boost (to the grass members), not both. You might say "but charizard!", but seriously, just get your fucking rocks down and charizard ceases to be an issue because it can no longer come in on anything without immediately dying to residual damage and solar power.
Sun was difficult to deal with at times, particularly when I let a grass-type member set up, but I can honestly say that I had more difficulty dealing with 4th gen rain at the height of its power than I do with sun right now.
Hail: Hail in 5th gen is almost exactly the same as 4th gen hail, except instead of a dead weight pokemon they now have a mediocre pokemon to set up hail. Oh and I guess they have access to a 660 BST dragon...uh....okay so maybe it's a little different. But seriously, Kyurem was the only difficult part of dealing with hail teams, and it wasn't THAT bad - I had Cobalion on my team, a reliable stealth rock user, and priority, so I was able to deal with it sufficiently well. I'd be open to suggestions that it is broken though, simply because that Draco Meteor is just absurd if you don't have any steel types.
Victini: I didn't run into this little thing outside sun very much, but its sheer power both inside and outside sun is concerning. I actually switched Arcanine's ability to Flash Fire just for Victini, because even with Intimidate it was 2hkoing me after rocks -___- It also has excellent stats to abuse with its signature move, and decent coverage options. At least we probably don't have to worry about this since it's going to OU anyway.
Jynx: Jynx sucks ;__; Wait, actually it could be really good in hail! Why aren't you guys using jynx!
Metagame in general: I am really enjoying myself with this metagame. It's really interesting to see previously top OU threats mixing it up with old UU veterans and all these new faces. I've taken a particular liking to Suicune and Cobalion especially, and I have feeling that UU will be oriented around bulky, resistance-based offense once again.
Oh, in case anyone was wondering, my team is Celebi (offensive SR lead)/Cobalion (bulky SD)/Suicune (crocune)/Hitmontop (techtop)/Arcanine (CB Arcanine)/Altaria (bulky DD)
Hmm. Yeah, now that you guys mention it, I'm starting to have second thoughts about Drought. The Chlorophyll sweepers, while obviously really good, have a lot of issues to work around. It's easier said than done to outright overpower a well-prepared team, since Grass is still a shitty offensive type and requires a lot of overcompensation coverage-wise to make up for that. Also, it's hard to get any sweeping done with priority in full effect on every fucking team, which includes powerful STAB Sucker Punches from Bisharp or Ice Shard from Weavile and Mamoswine.
I'm not sure if I want to pull a 180 and say "Drought isn't broken", but the cookie-cutter Sun team is definitely not cutting it anymore. Too many people have learned to adapt. I'm looking to find a different approach to Sun to see if there's any hidden potential I haven't yet unlocked. The results of my testing thusfar are actually pretty inconsistent with what we've assumed to be true from the start.
If you're anywhere high on the ladder with a Sun team, shoot me some tips. lol
I'm not sure if I want to pull a 180 and say "Drought isn't broken", but the cookie-cutter Sun team is definitely not cutting it anymore. Too many people have learned to adapt. I'm looking to find a different approach to Sun to see if there's any hidden potential I haven't yet unlocked. The results of my testing thusfar are actually pretty inconsistent with what we've assumed to be true from the start.
If you're anywhere high on the ladder with a Sun team, shoot me some tips. lol
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