From what I've seen, boom burst does not hit through protect. I've tried multiple times in battle, and I always get "-insert pokemons name here- is protecting itself"
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
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Pokémon Noivern
- Thread starter Molk
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I'm thinking of running a support/lead Noivern. Obviously Super Fang/Taunt/Roost is a good base, but I'm stuck on what attacking move it should run. Boom Burst hits through sub and has a lot of power, but then ghost-types wall the heck out of it. Shadow Ball hits ghosts, which gives good coverage with Super Fang, but I dunno if it's Shadow Ball is really all that powerful. Dragon Pulse would be a good STAB move, as would Air Slash, which also has a good chance to flinch the opponent. I'm just really indecisive on this point.
I'm leaning towards Dragon Pulse for the best coverage and power, but Air Slash is also appealing. Anyone have a preference?
I'm leaning towards Dragon Pulse for the best coverage and power, but Air Slash is also appealing. Anyone have a preference?
I doubt it actually hits through protect, honestly. Infiltrator might let it, though. I dunno. Or Serebii just made a mistake.
Boomburst is for Fairies and for reliability. The problem with Draco is that after that allmighty blow you get -2, something that doesn't happen with Boomburst.
Not only can it hit behind subs (remember you are not hitting full health enemies behind subs in the first place), but it is way more reliable. It has great PP too, maxing at 16, just like Dragon Pulse. Plus you can use it twice in a row, or you could throw in a Boomburst and follow with a Draco as long as you're not choice locked. Boombursting a switch in to finish with a Draco (or with another Boomburst all by itself) is pretty good.
Not only can it hit behind subs (remember you are not hitting full health enemies behind subs in the first place), but it is way more reliable. It has great PP too, maxing at 16, just like Dragon Pulse. Plus you can use it twice in a row, or you could throw in a Boomburst and follow with a Draco as long as you're not choice locked. Boombursting a switch in to finish with a Draco (or with another Boomburst all by itself) is pretty good.
I just tried this, sadly Noibat does not get Defog.
Frisk. Infiltrator would give it more offensive coverage, but Frisk fits my team better.
Infiltrator is the thing that bypasses subs and such. Boomburst gets blocked if you're frisk.
EDIT: meant for SacredEcho
Ah sad, why you apart flying if you no get Defog! It seems like a good anti-lead with Frisk though, Infiltrator seems necessary for Boombursting subs.
Otherwise, there's always Crobat who may show more usage with Fairies now.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Actually all sound-based moves now hit through substitute, without the need for Infiltrator. So a Frisk set would still be able to hit through subs with Boomburst, but not with say, Flamethrower.
And without permaweather now, it's not so cringeworthy to risk that 1/4 heal vs. a 50% or 66% under sun recovery move. With plenty of fire out there right now, people may just walk straight into giving you that Sunny Day superheal anyway.
This thing gets Switcheroo via Chain Breeding,
Noivern @ Choice Specs or Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
-scoutingintensifies-
Frisk I think would generally be the more useful of the two abilities for this set, but with Infiltrator you should be able to choice lock them through a sub, which I can see the merit of.
Noivern @ Choice Specs or Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
-scoutingintensifies-
Frisk I think would generally be the more useful of the two abilities for this set, but with Infiltrator you should be able to choice lock them through a sub, which I can see the merit of.
Aye, it does have infiltrator. Though you did make me double check.
oh wow. well he was talking about protect, but i just looked it up and according to bulbapedia:
Generation V
Infiltrator ignores Reflect, Light Screen, Safeguard, and Mist under effect on the target.
Generation VI
Infiltrator now allows Pokémon to bypass Substitute.
so, boomburst bypasses sub no matter the ability, infiltrator ability makes everything bypass sub, but neither bypasses protect i guess (kinda a bummer, but protect is somewhat limited to doubles, wish mons, maybe speed boost pokes, and idk poison heal gliscors that are afraid of spore? lol)
in related news, i tried my timid/31 iv/252 spatk ev noivern out at the battle maison. fought the second stage evo of goomy. choice specs boomburst was only a 3hko on that thing. JESUS.
sup guys, i'm matt.
i'm a new user to smogon & its forums, but i've been aware of it and utilizing it for a long time and finally joined, so firstly, hi everyone and thanks for all the help you've given me over the years in the form of this site/forum.
to the point, i finally bred a 31 speed/sp Atk IV timid noibat and have been training it, but do you think i'm making a mistake going with infiltrator over frisk? i realized a bit too late after i had it rated in kiloude city and shrugged it off and didn't care too much to change it.
i'm a new user to smogon & its forums, but i've been aware of it and utilizing it for a long time and finally joined, so firstly, hi everyone and thanks for all the help you've given me over the years in the form of this site/forum.
to the point, i finally bred a 31 speed/sp Atk IV timid noibat and have been training it, but do you think i'm making a mistake going with infiltrator over frisk? i realized a bit too late after i had it rated in kiloude city and shrugged it off and didn't care too much to change it.
i personally think they're both viable and have different applications within the metagame. frisk may be better if you're running u-turn or you're getting blown up by scarf dragons or something. but i like specs noivern a lot, and infiltrator is superior on that set imo, so people don't just set up subs into specs locked meteor or whatever.
cool thanks, i was worried i'd been too quick to brush frisk off. it's definitely what i had preferred originally, but i'm gonna run the specs set too, so that's comforting.
I finally bred a Noivern out and, so far, its been working great. Its flying/dragon stabs, along with that speed, has been working as a great cleaning sweeper for me in the Battle Masion. I've been running Dragon Pulse/Hurricane so one stab has better accuracy and the other has more raw power. Wrap that up with Bomburst and Roost for recovery, though, I am thinking of dropping Roost for U-turn now.
Could always get the Ability Capsule and change Infiltrator to Frisk if you change your mind.
This is what I've been using:
Noivern @ Life Orb or Yache Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Boomburst/Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
- Air Slash/Hurricane
- Flamethrower/Focus Blast
- U-turn/Super Fang/Dark Pulse
This set goes for all-out-special-attacker with Frisk+U-turn for scouting. I'd otherwise have gone with an Infiltrator set, but it pays off to know what the other guy (or girl) is packing. Were talking about mega-evo stones and other held items here, of course.
Boomburst is 140bp, 10pp, 100% accuracy and is one of Noivern's best options, especially when not running infiltrator. It allows Noivern to bypass substitutes, reflect, light screen, etc., while hitting most types for neutral damage. Noivern doesn't have a response to pure fairies, so Boomburst or STAB Hurricane is really your best option for raw power. I also have Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse for alternative options, the former giving you more power, the latter more reliability. Draco Meteor is Noivern's strongest attack with a STAB-boosted 195bp. Draco Meteor's main drawback is the -2 stages on Sp.A, though if you're using u-turn properly, you could hit hard with Draco Metoer, then U-turn out to reset the stat decrease. I don't recommend using Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse with Boomburst, the coverage is too redundant and it wastes a valuable slot in the moveset.
With Noivern, the two main questions most trainers deal with is Infiltrator vs. Frisk and power vs. reliability. When it comes to Air Slash vs. Hurricane, especially with the nerf to perma-weather, I give the nod to Air Slash, though both moves are definitely viable. Air Slash still hits moderately hard with a STAB-boosted 112.5 bp, and has a nifty 30% chance to make the opponent flinch, it's 95% accurate, and a good, reliable STAB move for Noivern, especially if you opted for the less accurate, more powerful Draco Meteor in the first slot. Hurricane is a great move, with whopping 165 STAB-boosted bp and a 30% chance for confusion, but a shaky 70% accuracy turns a lot of trainers away. If you've got a teammate running Rain Dance, this is definitely viable, otherwise I'd rely on Air Slash.
Flamethrower and Focus blast is another power vs. reliability match. Air Slash/Hurricane already takes care of bugs and grass types, leaving flamethrower to cover Ice and the thorn-in-Noivern's-tush steel types. Focus Blast covers these types as well, while also letting Noivern hit Normal, Dark, and Rock types hard. Focus Blast offers better coverage and 120 bp, but with only 70% accuracy. Flamethrower is 100% accurate and Game Freak even throws in a 10% chance to burn (nice!). I always go with reliability vs. power, so I usually go with Flamethrower here, though Focus Blast is a great option.
The fourth slot can be a bit tricky and depends on how you want Noivern to function. U-turn makes Noivern a great scout, Frisking opponents for their items or any other illegal contraband they might be holding while doing some damage to bugs and psychic types and offering Noivern a safe switch-out, especially if you're using Draco Meteor and looking to reset Noivern's SpA decreases. Super Fang takes a nice chunk (half, to be exact) of bulky tanks, and Noivern's speed lets it come right back and finish the job with any of its other attacks. A solid option, but at the expense of U-turn's scouting ability. Finally, I included Dark Pulse in here. It widens Noivern's coverage to hit Psychic and Ghost types, and also includes the fun 30% flinch rate.
It's a bit gimmicky, but if you're running Air Slash and Dark Pulse, you could have Noivern hold a King's Rock or Razor Fang to boost the flinch rate up to 37% for each move. That means that Noivern is making the opponent flinch more than 1 out of every 3 times. Not too shabby. This is only recommended if Life Orb is taken by someone else and you opt against the Yache Berry, as Life Orb's +30% damage is too sexy to pass up.
The EVs are pretty self-explanatory - this set aims to maximize power and speed. I wouldn't do any other spread for this set.
Remember, there's a lot of viable moves in Noivern's pool, and most of these can be taught with a TM or relearned for the price of a lowly heart scale (see luvdisc extinction), so test the waters. Try it all out and see what you like, and remember: don't trust a Fairy you can't burn, blast away, or burst with high-frequency sound waves.
Noivern @ Life Orb or Yache Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Boomburst/Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
- Air Slash/Hurricane
- Flamethrower/Focus Blast
- U-turn/Super Fang/Dark Pulse
This set goes for all-out-special-attacker with Frisk+U-turn for scouting. I'd otherwise have gone with an Infiltrator set, but it pays off to know what the other guy (or girl) is packing. Were talking about mega-evo stones and other held items here, of course.
Boomburst is 140bp, 10pp, 100% accuracy and is one of Noivern's best options, especially when not running infiltrator. It allows Noivern to bypass substitutes, reflect, light screen, etc., while hitting most types for neutral damage. Noivern doesn't have a response to pure fairies, so Boomburst or STAB Hurricane is really your best option for raw power. I also have Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse for alternative options, the former giving you more power, the latter more reliability. Draco Meteor is Noivern's strongest attack with a STAB-boosted 195bp. Draco Meteor's main drawback is the -2 stages on Sp.A, though if you're using u-turn properly, you could hit hard with Draco Metoer, then U-turn out to reset the stat decrease. I don't recommend using Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse with Boomburst, the coverage is too redundant and it wastes a valuable slot in the moveset.
With Noivern, the two main questions most trainers deal with is Infiltrator vs. Frisk and power vs. reliability. When it comes to Air Slash vs. Hurricane, especially with the nerf to perma-weather, I give the nod to Air Slash, though both moves are definitely viable. Air Slash still hits moderately hard with a STAB-boosted 112.5 bp, and has a nifty 30% chance to make the opponent flinch, it's 95% accurate, and a good, reliable STAB move for Noivern, especially if you opted for the less accurate, more powerful Draco Meteor in the first slot. Hurricane is a great move, with whopping 165 STAB-boosted bp and a 30% chance for confusion, but a shaky 70% accuracy turns a lot of trainers away. If you've got a teammate running Rain Dance, this is definitely viable, otherwise I'd rely on Air Slash.
Flamethrower and Focus blast is another power vs. reliability match. Air Slash/Hurricane already takes care of bugs and grass types, leaving flamethrower to cover Ice and the thorn-in-Noivern's-tush steel types. Focus Blast covers these types as well, while also letting Noivern hit Normal, Dark, and Rock types hard. Focus Blast offers better coverage and 120 bp, but with only 70% accuracy. Flamethrower is 100% accurate and Game Freak even throws in a 10% chance to burn (nice!). I always go with reliability vs. power, so I usually go with Flamethrower here, though Focus Blast is a great option.
The fourth slot can be a bit tricky and depends on how you want Noivern to function. U-turn makes Noivern a great scout, Frisking opponents for their items or any other illegal contraband they might be holding while doing some damage to bugs and psychic types and offering Noivern a safe switch-out, especially if you're using Draco Meteor and looking to reset Noivern's SpA decreases. Super Fang takes a nice chunk (half, to be exact) of bulky tanks, and Noivern's speed lets it come right back and finish the job with any of its other attacks. A solid option, but at the expense of U-turn's scouting ability. Finally, I included Dark Pulse in here. It widens Noivern's coverage to hit Psychic and Ghost types, and also includes the fun 30% flinch rate.
It's a bit gimmicky, but if you're running Air Slash and Dark Pulse, you could have Noivern hold a King's Rock or Razor Fang to boost the flinch rate up to 37% for each move. That means that Noivern is making the opponent flinch more than 1 out of every 3 times. Not too shabby. This is only recommended if Life Orb is taken by someone else and you opt against the Yache Berry, as Life Orb's +30% damage is too sexy to pass up.
The EVs are pretty self-explanatory - this set aims to maximize power and speed. I wouldn't do any other spread for this set.
Remember, there's a lot of viable moves in Noivern's pool, and most of these can be taught with a TM or relearned for the price of a lowly heart scale (see luvdisc extinction), so test the waters. Try it all out and see what you like, and remember: don't trust a Fairy you can't burn, blast away, or burst with high-frequency sound waves.
This guy could make for an excellent scout. Its great base 123 speed makes it the fastest dragon type of all, and a good deal faster than a lot of other OU pokemon. Frisk pretty much ensures that you will always be able to tell what set your opponent is using. U-turn is just plain great as it allows it to keep offensive momentum going.
Boomburst having no drawbacks is great, even if the typing is kinda lackluster. It is still covered by Focus Blast/Flamethrower though.
Boomburst having no drawbacks is great, even if the typing is kinda lackluster. It is still covered by Focus Blast/Flamethrower though.
Hey guys, I signed up just now. Been lurking a bit but noivern is really troubling me. I really love the pokemon and really want to use him for my pokemon battling debut (never really multiplayer battled before).
So my biggest question is, if I run U-Turn, should I go Hasty/Naive instead of Timid, and go for 6ivs to maximize that U-Turn damage? Or is that completely irrelevant? Also, if I run Roost instead, how would I utilize it? Noivern is really squishy, and I feel that Roost doesn't really help when he gets OHKO or 2HKO more often than not. This is from a bit of simulated testing I did on show down and I don't really know how to battle properly yet so I might be just missing something completely obvious.
So my biggest question is, if I run U-Turn, should I go Hasty/Naive instead of Timid, and go for 6ivs to maximize that U-Turn damage? Or is that completely irrelevant? Also, if I run Roost instead, how would I utilize it? Noivern is really squishy, and I feel that Roost doesn't really help when he gets OHKO or 2HKO more often than not. This is from a bit of simulated testing I did on show down and I don't really know how to battle properly yet so I might be just missing something completely obvious.
Hello Xialouis, welcome to Smogon!
Anyways, in my personal opinion i probably wouldn't be running Hasty or Naive on U-turn Noivern over a Timid nature. Sure, it maximizes the possible U-turn damage, but Noivern's base attack is pretty mediocre regardless, especially without any investment, so those U-turns will still end up being pretty weak regardless of nature :x. Not to mention that Noivern ends up sacrificing some bulk by running either hasty or naive, which could end up really messing you up if Timid Noivern would be able to survive a certain hit otherwise, definitely not worth the marginally stronger scouting move imo.
Also, as for roost, i feel like it could be useful simply for healing off Stealth Rock/possible Life Orb damage if you get a free turn if nothing else, so i'd definitely give it consideration. A good time to try using Roost with Noivern is on some sort of forced switch. Noivern's great Speed stat and possible high BP attacks are bound to scare the opponent out quite a bit, giving you the perfect opportunity to use Roost to recover off some of that residual damage. Of course, there are definitely times where simply attacking would be a better idea, so you have to be careful, especially if the opponent doesn't absolutely need the Pokemon you're attempting to force out.
Hope i helped :x.
Btw kinda late on this but i finally remembered to edit in the exact base stats for Noivern into the OP! it seems like Noivern's exact base stats are 85/70/80/97/80/123, for reference.
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