Other Negatively impacted Pokemon PrePokebank OU

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Bedlington

This thread is made to talk about pokemon who are negatively impacted by losing access (until December) to move sets available in previous generations and alternative sets they can run. Additionally, we can also discuss the effects on the pokemons usage. Some examples are Tyranitar's loss of superpower, Scizor's Loss of superpower, Garchomp's loss of Stealth Rocks, and Rotom-W's loss of pain split.

An example of an alternate move set for T-tar is instead of a CB Crunch, Pursuit, Stone Edge, and Superpower/Low Kick set, running an altered CB set with Crunch, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Earthquake
 
-Nitro-

-Nitro-

Well, most of us play on showdown! Which, I believe, has access to bw2 sets. So while an interesting discussion, I don't feel its the most important

However, the biggest difference is the muuuch smaller Stealth rock distribution. That, I feel, is the biggest current cart-play game changer.
 
SalTheThief

SalTheThief

Gastrodon loses out on Earth Power. His next best option is Mud Bomb, but if you really wanted to you could go mixed and use Earthquake?

Ludicolo loses out on Giga Drain but with the buff to Energy Ball I don't think he misses it too much.
 
Mr. Degradation

Mr. Degradation

Honestly- I'm of the other mind, that the transfer program should have never been announced or considered. At some juncture, reduction is important and being able to use mons with Emerald and Platinum tutor moves in a Gen VI game is outright silly. I was hoping with the release of BW and again with the announcement of XY that GF would finally make another cutoff, but oversentimentality has just added to the further bloat of the new games (peripheral 3DS titles- like bank itself and WiFi gifts could cover the missing mons.) The XY cart meta is better with Stealth Rocks and Drain Punch being restricted by breeding and the general lack of Dream World everything. I'm going to miss this weird hodgepodge slugfest.
 

Captain MDS

Well, I do believe that, considering that building a team right on the game cartridge has become a concrete possibility on this gen thanks to IV breeding and EV training, a lot of people would be interested in making their own team on their own console.

And, as opposed to playing online on a simulator, even with PokeBank release, there's always some moves that are tricky to get, mostly former gens move tutors, since they're most of the time not available as egg moves too. If you want to breed your own SR Garchomp for instance, you'll be forced to do it in B/W2 since you cannot have a baby Garchomp with SR in X/Y. Not only it is a pain in the ass to switch between two games, but you'll be ignoring the new breeding mechanics AND it forces you to own your own B/W2 copy. You could always go online and find someone to do that for you but that's not really a viable solution.

I agree that this thread is mostly irrelevant for online simulator playing, but for all those who'll play on their 3DS (and they will be a lot), it is damn important.
 
lopsided

lopsided

Mario With Lasers said:
More importantly, why is the simulator already allowing pre-XY moves and pokémon? We never allowed Genesect before its official release, what's different now?
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That's only on pokebank ou

Mr. Degradation said:
Honestly- I'm of the other mind, that the transfer program should have never been announced or considered. At some juncture, reduction is important and being able to useing mons with Emerald and Platinum tutor moves in a Gen VI game is outright silly. I was hoping with the release of BW and again with the announcement of XY that GF would finally make another cutoff, but oversentimentality has just added to the further bloat of the new games (peripheral 3DS titles- like bank itself and WiFi gifts could cover the missing mons.) The XY cart meta is better with Stealth Rocks and Drain Punch being restricted by breeding and the general lack of Dream World everything. I'm going to miss this weird hodgepodge slugfest.
Click to expand...
Also meeans greater access to defog, I haven't bothered to read the ut forum debating it because quite frankly, I see most of this as needless theorymonin, after extensive laddering, currently making my way up 2000s on bankou, I've found defog Gliscor to be very effective and removes the need for a spinner that wouldn't work on my team.
Edit for my damn broken laptop acting up
 
T-Bolt

T-Bolt

Mario With Lasers said:
More importantly, why is the simulator already allowing pre-XY moves and pokémon? We never allowed Genesect before its official release, what's different now?
Click to expand...
Because if PS didn't allow them, we'd have to play a radically different Meta for just around one month. Why not use every Mon to it's full potential right now?

Also, pre-Gen 6, migrating pokemon was available when the games released.
 
Sephorai

Sephorai

Hey I'm kinda new, but metagross misses out on stealth rock now due to lack of move tutors, heavily hurting his ability to lead
 
Sazoon

Sazoon

Mario With Lasers said:
More importantly, why is the simulator already allowing pre-XY moves and pokémon? We never allowed Genesect before its official release, what's different now?
Click to expand...
It's a bit of a different situation. It'll take quite a while for the metagame settle down after the introduction of pokebank, so I think they're just trying to give everyone a feel of what it'll be like come December. Only thing is some mons may get changed type and bst wise. So inessence it's to speed up the creation of the meta which otherwise be established around February.
 
FlyThai

FlyThai

One that hurt me most recently is Bisharp inability to get Knock Off.

But the absolute biggest nerf a pokemon recieved pre Pokebank OU is Conkeldurr without a doubt. You cant catch Hitmonchan in X and Y so you cant breed it with any elemental punches.
 
The Shadow Knight

The Shadow Knight

FlyThai said:
One that hurt me most recently is Bisharp inability to get Knock Off.

But the absolute biggest nerf a pokemon recieved pre Pokebank OU is Conkeldurr without a doubt. You cant catch Hitmonchan in X and Y so you cant breed it with any elemental punches.
Click to expand...
You can catch tyrogue in the friend safari.
 
Neab

Neab

Mandibuzz and many other dark types can't get Foul Play, which is a tutor move in BW2. Umbreon, Spiritomb, Weavile, Liepard and even Amoonguss (to some lesser extent) are other "potential" users.
 
Siggu

Siggu

Alice in Pyroland said:
Unless I'm misremembering, wasn't there a similar Dream World meta for Black & White featuring unreleased abilities?
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Unreleased abilities, pokémon and move combinations. Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect were available from the get-go in the DW metagame. Same with, for example, Salamence with DD + Outrage + Moxie

Of course, the most significant difference between "454" and the full XY metagame is that the viable SR setters that can actually get SR outside of BW2 can be counted with, at worst, two hands. Also much lower distribution on moves like Superpower, Outrage, Iron Head, elemental punches, Heat Wave and Sleep Talk, among others
 
Othesemo

Othesemo

As I discovered ingame, Excadrill loses access to Iron Head, leaving his next best Steel type attack as Metal Claw. A shame, since a Steel STAB is more useful than ever before, offensively speaking.
 

Bedlington

-Nitro- said:
Well, most of us play on showdown! Which, I believe, has access to bw2 sets. So while an interesting discussion, I don't feel its the most important

However, the biggest difference is the muuuch smaller Stealth rock distribution. That, I feel, is the biggest current cart-play game changer.
Click to expand...
Actually, Pokemon Showdown currently has two metagames for OU. They are Pokebank OU and regular OU. In regular OU you only have access to in game sets.

Lets please try to keep the thread on topic. to keep the thread on topic.

Another example of a pokemon negatively impacted is Dragonite. He retains Extremespeed as an egg move but there aren't any parents that can pass it on currently. The lack of Extremespeed really hinders Dragonite's sweeping ability as without it, he has no priority and is not more vulnerable to all other priority users. For example, in the past he could use Extremespeed to beat a weakened ice shard Mamoswine, thanks to extremespeed's +2 priority. Now not only does Dragonite need to play around Mamoswine (unless multi scale is still intact when Mamoswine switches in) but it also needs a fourth move for its typical Dragon Dace Set. Dragonite now however has the opportunity to forgo fire punch to use two moves that offer better coverage. (maybe using Earthquake to hit all steels and another coverage move) What are everyone's thoughts on this?
 
Grey Knight

Grey Knight

Well scizor lost Super power , so people actually use the acrobatics or the roost variation of SD a lot more than they should, which ofc is only good news for magnezones out there.
 
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