My Re-1k RMT Thread

[Bam]

Wait?, you ask - how can this possibly be my re-1k thread? Well, somebody apparently deleted a lot of the old "Look at What I Bred" threads, causing my post count to plummet from around 1200 to 980ish, and that brings me to where I am now - 999 posts. A friend of mine was telling me how he'd decided to post a RMT 1k thread, and I decided that it would be a great idea, especially since I'd missed out on my first chance to do so. Here we go ^_^

Changes will be in Bold, jsyk..

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Modest, Trace
248 HP / 184 Def / 76 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Magic Coat
- Recover

I tried this lead out a couple times, and it's a really awesome lead. Gengar/Crobat don't dare Hypnosis you in fear of Magic Coat, and if they don't know the set, they get slept first, allowing me to start the bombage. Ice Beam allows me to take care of Salamence leads (that is if they don't switch due to the Traced Intimidate). Charge Beam is being used over Discharge as Pory2 would much rather have a SpA boost and the ability to switch in on Blissey than the ability to paralyze an opponent with such a slow team anyways. Recover helps keep Pory2 alive for what seems like an eternal period of time.

The EVs are changed from those in the analysis because of IV differences (this is an actual WiFi team, you know!), but still basically allow the same thing - I'll survive a +2 Earthquake from non-Life Orbed Jolly Garchomp, a Draco Meteor from SpecsMence, and will OHKO both back with Ice Beam.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly, Hyper Cutter
108 HP / 100 Atk / 90 Def / 212 Spe
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Ice Fang
- Roost / Aerial Ace / Stealth Rock

It takes less than 48% from CBHera's Stone Edge, and can then outspeed Banded versions so I can switch to a counter depending on the move he uses. Jolly Gliscor is amazing, outspeeding the likes of Mix/SpecsMence, HP Ice Lucario, all Breloom, PorygonZ, etc, while still being able to take resisted hits like a champ. Earthquake OHKOs Heatran, Ice Fang does a minimum of 80% to Salamence, guaranteeing an OHKO with Stealth Rock. U-turn does a minimum of 25% to 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar, letting me scout out those TyraniBoah and see what their moveset is. U-turn also deals a number on Celebi, which is helpful on this team. My concerns with Gliscor are that I pretty much need U-turn, Earthquake, and Ice Fang, leaving me with one slot to do something. Roost is really important to Gliscor, but Stealth Rock is much more important in terms of the entire team. If I can get help fitting this somewhere else, that'd be great.

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Jolly, Arena Trap
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace

So I finally got Shoddy to work on the other computer we have, and I started testing this thing with a team I made off the top of my head. Imo, Dugtrio is the best thing since sliced bread. This gets rid of Blissey, most Tyranitar (I have Gliscor to deal with Boah), Infernape, some Azelf, some Gengar, and the list just goes on and on and on.

What, that's all I have to say about Dugtrio? Well, it is pretty self-explanatory, but I guess I can continue. The combination of Dugtrio and CBLax basically gets rid of most trouble Pokemon for this team, allowing me to stall away like there's no tomorrow. It's kind of hard to break through your opponent's team when you have no offense left.

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Sassy, Thick Fat
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
- Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast

CBLax is a really awesome Pokemon and is basically a 100% counter to Azelf, Gengar (after it's slept something, McGar screw me over though, but how often do you see those?), Starmie, and most other special-based Psychic/Ghost Pokemon (I can counter 'Zam but Trick sucks for CBLax). Fire Blast 2HKOs Skarm and OHKOs Forry/Scizor with SR out, while Return provides great STAB and power. Earthquake is pretty much for Heatran, since I can switch in and take little damage from any of its attacks.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant, Intimidate
252 HP / 96 Atk / 80 Def / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance / Roar
- Rest

This a really fun set to use, and it complements the team well by allowing me to stop Mamoswine and Weavile without as much trouble. Stone Edge has been dropped in favor of Dragon Dance, as Pory2 counters other Gyarados like it's nobody's business. Due to the nature of this team, Starmie is taken out early by Snorlax, allowing Gyarados prance around the game with no worry at all. At this moment I am utterly stalling my opponent's team with this Gyarados, but I will probably lose due to not enough PP (and he got a very well-placed crit on Pory2 with Heatran's Earth Power @_@). My concern about Gyarados now is that I have no way to get rid of something like CurseSwine - I can outspeed it but won't do nearly enough damage before I'm 2HKOd. Roar was really nice on it. Without Roar, I will have a lot of trouble with Roar/CM/Surf/Rest Suicune, who may trick me into thinking he's a STalker while I CM alongside him with Jirachi, and then Roar me away and pwn my team.

The EVs allow me to outspeed AgiliGross before it has gotten an Agility, give me max HP, and general bulkiness overall.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Modest, Serene Grace
252 HP / 56 Def / 20 SpDef / 180 Spe
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Calm Mind
- Wish / Thunderbolt

Jirachi was changed from defensive Sassy Jirachi to CM Jirachi to help speed up and end the stalling process once all my opponent's threats have been taken care of. Reflect will still be used because it benefits the team greatly. Wish will still be used, but if I end up needing the extra type coverage, then it may change to Thunderbolt. Substitute isn't really needed because I can 2HKO Blissey with Dugtrio (or beat it out with Gyarados as long as it doesn't have Thunderbolt), but may end up being used in the final product. The team really misses Jirachi being more defensive and having U-turn, but I can live with it (U-turn is my favorite move, and one of the most useful in the metagame imo). In the end I may end up going back to what I had, but that leaves me with nothing to CM along with CM Cune/Cressy/Blissey.



Threats List:

: Abomasnow can't really do much to this team - Jirachi resists both STAB moves and can set up a Reflect, and then U-turn to Snorlax. Porygon2 can Ice Beam it and break a sub I'm sure, and Dugtrio can finish it off with Aerial Ace or Stone Edge.

: With Azelf, I'll generally switch in Snorlax and either Pursuit or Return, depending on how far I am into the game and what I know about my opponent. Both Return and Pursuit are OHKOs, the latter only if Azelf switches out, however. Dugtrio can Sucker Punch choice versions, and Gyara isn't OHKOd by any move barring Thunderbolt, and can then Watefall or Roar it away.

: I can Magic Coat back the Spore with Pory2, Intimidate with Gyarados, wall with Gliscor (note: Gliscor's U-turn breaks Breloom's Substitutes), and OHKO with Duggy's Aerial Ace. Pretty simple to beat.

: Pory2 can switch in and Trace Natural Cure, Magic Coat Leech Seed (question: does Magic Coat reflect Leech Seed back onto Grass types, too?), and then fire off Ice Beams while Recovering in the process. Gyara is only 4HKOd by Grass Knot, allowing me to Roar it away. Snorlax can hurt it with Return, and Duggy can finish it off with Aerial Ace when it's under 25% health. U-turn from either Jirachi or Gliscor will hurt it a lot, doing a minimum of around 45%.

: Jirachi can switch in on this guy forever, set up a Reflect, and then U-turn out to Pory2 or Dugtrio, depending if it's an all-attacking set or not.

: Dragonite may pose a small problem for this team depending on its set. If it's the standard DD set, Pory2 can switch in and OHKO with Ice Beam (assuming Dragonite switched in on SR). Jirachi and Gliscor can take on the Choice sets when paired together, and Snorlax can take on the special sets with Focus Punch.

: Ah, 'Vire, possibly this generation's most overhyped Pokemon. The Mixed set works wonders for it, though...but not against this team. Gliscor outspeeds any non +Speed variants and OHKOs with Earthquake. Porygon2 can switch in on an electric move as long as a Reflect is up and deal decent damage to it with Ice Beam, while making its main STAB move useless. Dugtrio can revenge kill easily.

: Gliscor, Jirachi, and Dugtrio handle this together. If its the band set, I will outspeed it with Gliscor and U-turn to something that resists the attack. Jirachi takes Ice Punch/Psycho Cut and sets up Reflect, and Dugtrio can do a good amount of damage to it with Earthquake.

: Oh wait there are no Garchomp where I'll be using this team - a pity :P. On Smogon however, that's different, but I can still handle it. Gliscor outspeeds Adamant versions and does a lot with Ice Fang. Dugtrio outspeeds both Jolly and Adamant versions and hits hard with Earthquake. CB Sucker Punch does 30% minimum, allowing me to finish off SubSalac versions with ease. Pory2 can take a +2 Earthquake and OHKO back with Ice Beam, all the while Tracing Sand Veil so that I might make use of some of its amazing hax abilities (Pulse mentioned how fun Tracing Sand Veil with Bright Powder would be :P).

: Hypnosis/WoW is reflected back at it by Pory2. CBLax switches in after it has slept something and can OHKO with Pursuit, whether it switches or not.

: Gyara is walled 100% by PoryZ, no doubt about it. My own Gyarados can Intimidate it and Roar it around, Jirachi can set up Reflect, and SR takes its toll on non ResTalk variants. Snorlax can take a boosted Waterfall and do around 45% with Return.

: In a similar matter to Gyarados, Heatran is walled by PoryZ. Snorlax can also switch in on Heatran and Earthquake, although it doesn't like the Lava Plume ResTalk variants at all. Gyara can switch into non HP Electric versions and Waterfall, and it doesn't mind WoW/burn from Lava Plume because of Rest. Duggy OHKOs any non-scarf versions with Earthquake, and can switch in on Hidden Power Electric.

: Gliscor takes less than 45% from CBHera's Stone Edge, and can U-turn to a resist should Heracross not use a move Gliscor resists. Reflect helps counter this, and Dugtrio traps and OHKOs non-Scarf Heracross. Gyarados can switch into either STAB move and Intimidate it.

: Gyarados is a decent counter as it isn't OHKOd by Nasty Plotted Grass Knot. Dugtrio can trap and OHKO with Earthquake.

: Gyarados can switch in and Roar it away, gaining a Rain-boosted Waterfall in the process. If Reflect is up, Snorlax can hit it for lots of damage with Return. Dugtrio can trap and finish off weakened non-Rain Dance variants.

: SD Luke is completely countered by Gliscor, as it outspeeds even +Speed versions and OHKOs with Earthquake. Gyarados can switch in on SpecsLuke and tank away with its good HP/SpDef, and Dugtrio can OHKO with Earthquake (I'm not sure if it survives a +2 LO Extremespeed, probably not though).

: Machamp doesn't have too many counters, but Gliscor can switch in hope it's not confused for too long. Dugtrio can kill weakened Machamp with Earthquake, Gyarados can Intimidate and then Roar/Waterfall it, and Jirachi sets up Reflect which helps keep this guy at bay.

: Gyarados switches in and Intimidates, and can then Roar it away (if its the Curse version) or Waterfall. Jirachi sets up Reflect and takes Ice moves, and Dugtrio can revenge-kill if it doesn't have/isn't stuck on Ice Shard.

: Gliscor can switch in on anything but Ice Punch and fire off a STAB Earthquake. AgiliGross without Ice Punch are also stopped cold by Gliscor, and Jirachi can take Meteor Mash/Ice Punch if it has to, and then set up Reflect. Duggy can revenge kill it with Earthquake.

: Salamence is intimidated by Pory2, outsped and OHKOd (with SR out) by Gliscor, walled by Jirachi (with good prediction), and can be baited by Snorlax, which can't be 2HKOd by Specs Draco Meteor (although it's very close, so they should stay in and DM again, in which case they will then be OHKOd with Return).

: Reflect really helps me get rid of this little bugger. He will constantly be taking damage from Life Orb/Stealth Rock, and Gyarados resists both STAB attacks and Brick Break, all of which are included in its movesets. I can either Roar it away for another day or do decent damage to it and possibly flinch it with Waterfall.

: CurseLax is Roared away by Gyarados and is hit hard by Dugtrio's Earthquake. Pory2 can tank against it for a while, and Jirachi can set up Reflect to stop its slow but steady sweep.

: Stealth Rock helps wear this thing down, and Dugtrio outspeeds and does quite a bit of damage to it with Stone Edge. Pory2 can Trace Serene Grace and fire off Charge Beams with a now-90% chance of getting a SpA boost (because of accuracy).

: Gliscor switches in and U-turns out if it subs, or just plain stays in and Earthquakes if it doesn't. Dugtrio OHKOs almost any Tyranitar as long as it's been weakened a little bit. Jirachi with a Reflect set up walls it, but can't do much back.

: Gyarados helps wall this, and can Roar it away or just Waterfall. Dugtrio can finish off weakened ones with Sucker Punch. Jirachi with Reflect set up can U-turn out for around 50%. Pory2 can take a hit and..do not much back, just Charge Beam :(.

: Yanmega is stopped cold by Snorlax and is then OHKOd by Return or Fire Blast. Porygon2 can Magic Coat a Hypnosis back at it, or just plain take a hit and Ice Beam back. Gyarados can Roar it out, especially if Stealth Rock is on the field, because it definately takes its toll on the little Dragonfly of Death.

Possible Changes:
- Pory2 may still recieve Discharge over Charge Beam, depending on how useful it is in the next few battles
- I'm thinking of replacing Roar on Gyara with Taunt, but so far Roar has proven exceedingly useful
- ResTalk Gyara may be switched with BulkyGyara, or even just max atk/spe Gyara with Life Orb - I'm not sure if that takes out any extra threats that BulkyGyara wouldn't, so I'd have to look that up first
- The whole team may end up being revised

Potential Problems:
- I just had a battle with my trade partner (he created his team specifically to counter mine) and I've found that Kristy Floatzel can cause me a lot of trouble once Pory2 is down. Other than that, it's not that big of a problem.
- CurseSwine may pose a problem if it runs Stone Edge. Fortunately, Reflect softens that up quite a bit and if it runs Avalanche over Stone Edge, I can Roar it out forever. I've also seen 0 CurseSwine on WiFi in all my battles.

That's it, thanks for reading and hopefully rating!

 

[Tangerine]

Is the goal of your team to do absolutely nothing?

Half of your team is just there - it can't stat up, it doesn't set up Poison Spikes or Spikes or anything. Nothing in your team really hits hard enough to do anything. Maybe you'll get a few kills with Dugtrio and that's it.

What's honestly the point of being able to counter everything if you get walled by everything? You don't even have rapid spin to beat the stall teams... You'll just slowly get stalled away since... nothing in your team is going to make a dent to any major defensive threats. Cresselia/Mesprit/Uxie and Swampert wall your entire team 100% without running into a single issue. You don't have secondary Damage to slowly chip them away as you stall either. Not even sandstream.

If your goal is to just "counter" things - then you're not going to win games. I'm going to assume that's what happened here - that you were so preoccupied in covering everything that you forgot that you actually needed to do something else other than counter to win the game.

I really want to help "fix" your team but I'm not going to be able to without you telling us which way you want the team to go. I'm really against "rating" teams without an actual fix, but I don't think I can do much with this.

Or I could just be completely wrong and missing something

 

[orez]

I agree with Tangerine. Trying to counter every single thing is pointless. You just need to have a solid defensive backing that can deal with a majority of the threats. What you can't deal with, you can simply use a revenge killer for (Uh, for the most part).

I love the Porygon2 lead, but there's the fact a smart Gengar lead will usually Focus Blast you, and Bronzong will just use Stealth Rock. If you can get access to it, HP Fire works on it instead of Recover (which I personally didn't find much time to use). Since you'll be switching in on Heatrans you can put it to good use. Magnezone just hates taking HP Fires from it (this would work well with U-Turning Jirachi). Oh, and definitely use Discharge. Tracing Serene Grace is awesome.

I would run Aerial Ace over U-Turn or Ice Fang on Gliscor to take better care of Hera and Loom. Probably U-Turn, though as IceQuake is always good.

I hate Dugtrio. Its a waste of a team spot most of the time. That's all I have to say about it.

Fire Punch would be better than Fire Blast. Especially on a Choice Band set, wouldn't it? Anyway, I'm not good with Snorlax sets, so I've got nothing more on that.

I've heard about a Gyarados set like that a while ago. My friend mentioned getting 6-0d by a RestTalk Gyara. Anyway, really, couldn't Suicune do that job more effectively?

Jirachi is fine I believe. Having HP Fire on Porygon2 along with U-Turn would stop Magnezone from killing Jirachi, while almost guaranteeing you take it out it with Porygon2.

Breloom: I can Magic Coat back the Spore with Pory2, Intimidate with Gyarados, wall with Gliscor (note: Gliscor's U-turn breaks Breloom's Substitutes), and OHKO with Duggy's Aerial Ace. Pretty simple to beat.

You neglect the fact you can't status a Poisoned Pokemon. With Aerial Ace on Gliscor you're better off. You're wasting Dugtrio there.



But, yeah. The team as a whole needs to be changed. You don't have effective means of... winning. No effective stalling, no hard hitting sweepers... just tons of counters. I figured I could just give some advice on what the team was was right now, though.

 

[Bam]

...I really want to help "fix" your team but I'm not going to be able to without you telling us which way you want the team to go. I'm really against "rating" teams without an actual fix, but I don't think I can do much with this.

Thanks for the replies, and the team has actually been going decently for me thus far, as I've found when I can get rid of some of the larger threats, I can effectively sit there and do nothing. I do see your point however, especially against stall teams, and just "sitting there" gets me nowhere really. Truth be told I was kind of caught up in trying to cover as much as I could, which is really stupid of me as I agreed with that bit in your post about getting over countering 100%.

Anyways, I really like the Jirachi/Gliscor/Gyarados defensive combo - if my opponent has any trouble Pokemon, I can just switch around until I eventually ge a Reflect in, easing the strain on my team. I also like Dugtrio and Snorlax, as they get rid of Infernape and Starmie, two Pokemon that [among others] would be trouble for my team. Pory2 hasn't proved too useful so far, but that's only because my last four battles with the team have been against a friend of mine who's tried to design teams specifically against it, so I haven't been able to Magic Coat anything back, but I can imagine how useful it would be against people who don't know what Pory2 can do. That doesn't really leave me anywhere to go...I will remove or change anything though if it ends up being necessary, and I still want to hear any and all suggestions you have.

Perhaps I could run the standard BulkyGyara set rather than ResTalk Gyara, as Pory2 could absorb sleep and then switch into Blissey or something similar later to trace Natural Cure. Since I generally have no problem getting rid of Gyarados' counters, it would grant me a chance at a sweep as long as I play my cards right. Another possibility I was thinking about was replacing Jirachi with a defensive Deoxys-S, probably Spiker version (which would most likely be modded to suit my needs).

I really want to help "fix" your team but I'm not going to be able to without you telling us which way you want the team to go. I'm really against "rating" teams without an actual fix, but I don't think I can do much with this.

Since I've already dug myself into a whole here with my team, it may need a drastic do-over to get things right. I want the team to go in an offensive direction, being able to get rid of the larger threats (and counters to that which I want to set up), scout around for a bit, and then sweep.

@ Orez: I love how this is your first post. First off, putting HP Fire on Porygon2 is just a bit useless and overcentralizing imo. That leaves me with only Ice Beam to take on Gyarados/Heatran, and Jirachi doesn't take more than 30% from Thunderbolt after Leftovers. If I can get in with Dugtrio or Gliscor and he doesn't have Magnet Rise, he's dead. However, Snorlax doesn't take too much from his Thunderbolts, and even my Return would break his Sub - no doubt that Fire Blast would do much more.

I hate Dugtrio. Its a waste of a team spot most of the time. That's all I have to say about it.

Lol, what's so bad about getting rid of Magnezone, Breloom, Heracross, Heatran, Blissey, Tyranitar, and their Pokefriends all with one Pokemon? Nothing. Duggy is most definitely not a waste of a team slot.

You neglect the fact you can't status a Poisoned Pokemon

That is irrellevent due to the fact that both would be leading. I wouldn't switch Pory2 in on Breloom later in game when he has a sub up and can Focus Punch me. My first reaction would probably be to switch in Gyarados before he can get a sub so I can Intimidate him, let him sleep me, and then go to Gliscor, break his sub with Ice Fang, then U-turn out to counter whatever he then brings in.

But, yeah. The team as a whole needs to be changed. You don't have effective means of... winning. No effective stalling, no hard hitting sweepers... just tons of counters. I figured I could just give some advice on what the team was was right now, though.

Strange as it sounds, this team has actually been doing decently for me. I do get Tangerine's point though, as something as retarded as Cradily in Sandstorm could give me loads of trouble. I'd appreciate any more feedback guys ;), and thanks for that that you've already given.

 

[travisurfer]

Porygon2@Lum Berry
240 HP/168 Def/26 SpAtk/116 SpDef
Modest-Trace
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Thunderwave
-Recover
I've found that P2 is able to counter many of the common leads in the OU environment. The EV's provided are there to OHKO Salamence, Gyarados, and Garchomp while still being able to take some hits on the physical side. Most notably, this survives Specsmence Dracometeor and Gengar Focus Blast. Lum Berry is there because many like to run fast Hypnosis leads giving you the chance to either paralyze Scarfgar or OHKO some of the others.

On a side note, I still remember way back when you had Pory2 on one of your NSider teams. XD You had inspired me to use it so long ago and I have since optimized the poke to it's greatest potential imo.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly, Hyper Cutter
108 HP / 100 Atk / 90 Def / 212 Spe
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Aerial Ace
- Ice Fang
- Roost
Aerial Ace is really a great choice to prevent Heracross from setting up on you. You can also use Stealth Rock to free up a slot on Jirachi or Swords Dance to pseudosweep.

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Jolly, Arena Trap
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Sassy, Thick Fat
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
- Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant, Intimidate
252 HP / 96 Atk / 80 Def / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Dragon Dance is the standard restalk set for Gyara iirc and it allows you another offensive point although it is still walled completely by Vaporeon.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Sassy, Serene Grace
252 HP / 20 Def / 238 SpD
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Wish
I really just don't understand this use of Jirachi. Wish support is great but I think you would do much better with either a more physical oriented set or a Calm Mind set due to the fact that Gyara and Snorlax are already sponging some of the bigger special hits. I would definitely opt to make this more offensive imo.

I did my best to try to make this a bit more offensive while still keeping the general core. Let me know what you think.

 

[Bam]

I was talking to Pulse just a while ago about this and I'm considering using CM Jirachi. It helps even out the special/physical move distribution, as when Pory2 is dead I can't really hurt stuff like Skarm, but it's the same for them.

Jirachi as of right now serves a very important purpose on the team - that is, getting Stealth Rock on the field, nabbing me some key OHKO/2HKOs, and setting up Reflect, which helps stop Pokemon like CurseSwine from rampaging through my team. Due to the fact that I have Dugtrio to take care of Blissey, 101 HP Subs may not even be necessary on Jirachi. I may in fact run Reflect/Wish/CM/Psychic, as it allows me to support the rest of the team in the same way while still remaining offensive. It would also serve to fool my opponent into thinking that I'm running an all support set, meaning he's less concerned about Blissey dying, possibly opening up a sweep.

I like U-turn on Gliscor for a couple of reasons; it allows me to scout out Heracross, to see if it's banded or scarfed (or worse, SD). If I outspeed it, then I know in the future that Dugtrio can easily kill it. If it outspeeds me, then I just go to a pokemon that resists the move he used (Gyarados obviously with Close Combat/Megahorn, Jirachi with Stone Edge so I can set up Reflect). Speedy Gliscor really is cool.

I guess all in all I was too ambitious when I created this team - right now it feels as if there's just not enought moveslots for everything I want to do, which is pretty much true. I really really like Roar on Gyarados - once Starmie/anything with Electric move is gone, Gyarados can tank away continuously. I figure if I can fit Toxic Spikes somewhere on this team (along with Stealth Rock) then I would be able to stall my opponent to death.

That leaves me with two options - fit Spikes/T-Spikes on the team and don't change much else, or change a lot of stuff to try to make it more offensive. Any more imput would be appreciated.

Man, NSider was such a long time ago...it's funny looking back then and seeing how much everything's changed (in real life and battling-wise).

 

[travisurfer]

lol, yeah, a lot has changed in pokemon, both good and bad. XD

Anyway, I really like the looks of the newer Jirachi. It looks like a nice fit for your team although you'll have to make sure Dugtrio has taken out Tyranitar first.

Why U-Turn away from Heracross when you could simply Aerial Ace it for the OHKO? While you do get some "free switches" the pokes you are switching in can't really do much damage in return. You really have to put some effort into making your own offensive strike to keep the opponent in check because that counter game simply will not last.

Once again, Dragon Dance just really seems invaluable on that Gyarados. Sure you can Roar stuff away, or you could just setup for the potential win. Right now it really seems like you are in a passive, defensive mindset and that, ime, just doesn't work in D/P. You have Gyarados, Salamence, Heracross, Breloom, Lucario, Tyranitar, and most of the frail sweepers covered just between Dugtrio, Gliscor, and Porygon2 which is fine imo. The other pokes don't really need to be as bulky so I really suggest that you try to go for your own sweep. Honestly, this just doesn't really pack the punch that your other teams normally have. It looks like you are in a bit of a slump as far as team building goes so I suggest that you try some new thigns. I couldn't make a successful team for months and then, yesterday, I finall broke through and made a team with a current 5-0 win streak just by trying new things. To each his own though. XD

 

[Bam]

Roar has been replaced with Dragon Dance on Gyarados, and the new Jirachi set is up. I'm concerned about Roar/CM/Rest/Surf Suicune - although it wouldn't do much against Gyarados, it can stop any attempts of mine to DD up and scare it away, and it could Roar away Jirachi and its attempt to CM up alongside it.

I'm also concerned about not having Stealth Rock anywhere. Do you think it would be wise to replace Dugtrio with Deoxys-S? It would allow me to set up Stealth Rock or Spikes, Taunt Suicune/Blissey/etc. before they get too powerful, and would help me take care of Infernape still. If I end up replacing Dugtrio, I'll have more Tyranitar problems, which is a big issue, but it would also free up Gliscor and Gyarados' movepool issues.

Bentendo wonders what your nick on NS used to be.

 

[travisurfer]

Even with Crocune in mind, I still think that Dragon Dance on Gyarados will still be more effective. You could always put Selfdestruct on Snorlax or change it to some kind of Lickilicky to KO Suicune before it becomes a problem. I actually have a Crocune in some haphazardly made team so you can see how the team deals with it if you'd like.

Deoxys-S could be a wise choice. Don't forget that you do have access to Superpower which is probably a OHKO on T-Tar(I'd have to run some calcs). Maybe something like Superpower/Taunt/Stealth Rock/Psychic or similar could be of benefit as it still takes out T-Tar, Stat-uppers, Heracross/Breloom, and provides Stealth Rock support. CB Dugtrio locked into anything but Earthquake is Pursuit bait for CB Tar anyway. EDIT: Dang, the Deoxys event is today! I have to go get mine ;)

lol, my nick on NS was "gamesurfer91" iirc

 

[Tangerine]

....Air Slash? What?

There are no reasons why you should ever not run Stealth Rock. Run Stealth Rock on Gliscor - it'll be helpful in the long run.

If you're not worried about Garchomp, then drop Ice Fang on Gliscor, because that's pretty much the only real reason you'd ever use it. Use U Turn (or Aerial Ace...)/EQ/Roost/Stealth Rock. I honestly don't see the point of running that much speed on Gliscor. I'd just hit 270 speed just to outspeed Band Hera, so you can still do what you wanted to do and invest more on defenses. Don't see the point of speed on Gliscor anything past that at all.

Run Dragon Dance on Gyarados. I would consider replacing Snorlax with Heatran - does very similar things as Snorlax (like they both get owned by Gengar Focus Blast) but Heatran has more useful resistances (Steel is just fantastic and can take a Specsmence Draco Meteor, for once) in the long run and it isn't so slow (I'd expect you to run Scarf). You lose the option on Pursuit Trapping, but Jirachi is a surprisingly a decent way to deal with Gengar. (And if you go with my next suggestion, it doesnt matter!) Heatran can explode on Suicune so you can use something else to finish it off afterwards. Another EQ weak is "meh" but Gliscor handles most EQ users very well so it's not much to worry about.

With Heatran around, I really would consider replacing Dugtrio with something like Heracross so you're not utterly walled by Cresselia. It does very similar things (Pursuit Trapping, and forcing switches and giving you a chance to gain an advantage is amazing!) Heracross also beats Suicune if it switches in on a Calm Mind.

Wish support is only necessary if you plan on stalling the game out - so CM Jirachi is a good choice I feel.

 

[Bam]

a_a, sorry, that was meant to be Aerial Ace. Thanks for giving more feedback, Tangerine. I like the idea of Heatran and Heracross, but there's multiple directions I can go with that. I could run the Lava Plume/STalk Heatran and pair that up with ScarfHera, I could run Scarf or CB Megahorn/Stone Edge/Close Combat/STalk Hera (which a good friend of mine has used to great success against me in the past) and bulky Heatran, freeing up Gyarados to run the standard BulkGyara or all-out attack set, or I could just do what you suggested. Do you think that freeing up Gyarados' moveset by using STalk Hera would be worth the loss of Pursuit?

Finally, on Jirachi, what moveset would you reccomend? Gozgon's fortunately has a 31 HP IV, allowing me to create 101 Subs, which would probably be necessary due to the less reliable way of taking out Blissey. I'm thinking Sub/CM/Psychic/Thunderbolt or Reflect, but I'd be happy to hear any other suggestions you have.

I'll be lowering Gliscor's speed to 280 to beat out neutral base 90s (getting the jump on SD Luke with EQ is worth it) and putting Stealth Rock over Ice Fang (Ice Fang is mainly being run for Salamence btw, as I have troubles with it otherwise). Thanks for the help ;).

 

[orez]

@ Orez: I love how this is your first post. First off, putting HP Fire on Porygon2 is just a bit useless and overcentralizing imo. That leaves me with only Ice Beam to take on Gyarados/Heatran, and Jirachi doesn't take more than 30% from Thunderbolt after Leftovers. If I can get in with Dugtrio or Gliscor and he doesn't have Magnet Rise, he's dead. However, Snorlax doesn't take too much from his Thunderbolts, and even my Return would break his Sub - no doubt that Fire Blast would do much more.

I was saying HP Fire > Recover. I just had found Recover to be dead weight on my Porygon2. HP Fire is good for trapping Zone. It can simply Magnet Rise as you switch to Duggy via U-Turn. HP Fire lets you put Flash Fire from Heatran to use, and has its merit in taking out things like Bronzong.

Lol, what's so bad about getting rid of Magnezone, Breloom, Heracross, Heatran, Blissey, Tyranitar, and their Pokefriends all with one Pokemon? Nothing. Duggy is most definitely not a waste of a team slot.

Dugtrio is rather hit and miss. It might work really well with all of the U-Turners you have, but Duggy is still easily revenge killed by anything with Pursuit. It might just be me, but things like Weavile and Heracross are more effective since they can do their job more than once. Hera would fit very nicely if you replace Lax with Tran.

That is irrellevent due to the fact that both would be leading. I wouldn't switch Pory2 in on Breloom later in game when he has a sub up and can Focus Punch me. My first reaction would probably be to switch in Gyarados before he can get a sub so I can Intimidate him, let him sleep me, and then go to Gliscor, break his sub with Ice Fang, then U-turn out to counter whatever he then brings in.

A Loom lead would just Sub to get its Poison Heal going, since Porygon2 isn't going to be faster. But, other than that you're right on Loom.


Personally, I like CBHera but ScarfCross would give you some much needed speed. Lava Plume/SleepTalk Tran seems like a good idea.