Murkrow

anubite


Base Stats:
60 HP
42 Def
85 Atk
85 SpA
42 SpD
91 Spe

Abilities:
Super Luck
Insomnia
Prankster

Notable Moves (DW compatible only):
Bravebird (egg)
Drillpeck (egg)
Confuse Ray (egg)
Featherdance (egg)
Mirror Move (egg)
Psycho Shift (egg)
Perish Song (egg)
Roost (egg)
Screech (egg)
Foul Play (level)
Quash (level)
Haze (level)
Mean Look (level)
Night Shade (level)
Sucker Punch (level)
Tailwind (level)
Calm Mind (TM)
Embargo (TM)
Swagger (TM)
Psych Up (TM)
Psychic (TM)
Taunt (TM)
Thunder Wave (TM)
Torment (TM)
Substitute (TM)
Toxic (TM)


This thread is dedicated to an awesome vintage pokemon that has received a huge boost in notability since Honchkrow was introduced last gen.

Now, you might ask, why use Murkrow? There's Whimsicott and soon to be other more utile Prankster users! What makes him so special?

Focusing just on Whimsicott - the stat difference between an Eviolite Murkrow and a Leftovers (or some other item) Whimsicott is minor. They share the same base HP and comparable defensive stats -- where Murkrow shines is in his massive move pool. Whimsicott has some moves Murkrow does not have access to, such as Leech Seed, Encore and Cotton Guard - but Murkrow shines in the tricky things he can do.

Murkrow makes a great choice for any 2v2 or 3v3 team. He also may be of some notable use in normal one on one match ups. Allow me to suggest some possibilities:

Murkrow @Eviolite, Bold
252 HP 252 Def 4 Spe

Calm Mind
Psychic
Foul Play
Roost

Because Murkrow will generally get the first move against most pokemon, with Eviolite and a +1 to Special Defense, Murkrow without any investment in special defense will have 270 SpD after one turn (from 180 w/ just Eviolite). He gets 300 defense with max investment in defense, making him all around bulky against most pokemon.

A priority roost (that should out speed even a Scizor's bullet punch) also guarantees a free heal for Murkrow that will temporarily negate his flying weaknesses, making him even harder to shut down. Furthermore, he gets access to a nice counter to fighting types with Psychic and can injure special walls with Foul Play, though he should still be wary of walls like Blissey and foes like Houndoom or Tyranitar. A stab Foul Play against a Garchomp though, can lay on some serious hurt. Even bulky targets like Dusknoir should be wary of Foul Play (I've seen it do over half of a Dusknoir's HP).

*sadly, dark pulse is gen4 only for Murkrow

Other sets to consider that should be obvious:

Eviolite, 252 HP 128 Def 128 SpD, Calm

Tailwind
Roost
Night Shade
Taunt / Confuse Ray / Psycho Shift / Haze

This set could make a useful priority lead, where Murkrow has the ability to stop certain things your team might be worried about, like Baton Pass or Status leads. Murkrow may still go first even if paralyzed.

Or even a priority Mean Look + Perish Song

Perish Song
Mean Look
Roost
Foul Play / Mirror Move / Protect / Substitute

This set should be a no brainer. Trap a wall. Perish Song it. Stall it out. You could even try this kind of set with Toxic if you don't like Perish Song. Mirror Move is also to be considered. I'm really serious. It's considered by prankster to be a support move so Murkrow goes first when he uses it, and with Murkrows decent base stats, I've seen him Mirror Move Draco Meteors and Ice Beams to great effect. Mirror Move is even more deadly when combined with some SpA stat and/or Calm Mind. Mirror Move is even more useful in multibattles, when Murkrow can Calm Mind and reflect special attacks right back at the enemy team.

I'd also like to say that a priority Quash is quite simply AMAZING in multibattles. No more scarfed Water Spout / Eruption / Rock Slide problems ever again.

I don't think Murkrow is better or worse than any current Prankster user right now. He's got some nice niche use that I haven't seen too many people take advantage of yet. There are a lot of potential sets with this pokemon, a lot of them surprisingly offensive and varied.
 

anubite

Zacchaeus said:
This is the only set it should run:
Eviolite - 252 HP 252 SpD 4 Def
FeatherDance
Perish Song
Mean Look
Roost
Click to expand...
You shouldn't knock foul play until you've tried it. Or the calm mind set. I've had some success with them. I mean, do you have any idea what a foul play does to a Salamence who just DD'd that turn? It's not pretty, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's a OHKO for many EV investments. And you can easily live an outrage/dragon claw with some defensive investment. And sure, there are other foul play users, but few quite as bulky as Murkrow.
 
Virizion

Virizion

anubite said:
You shouldn't knock foul play until you've tried it. Or the calm mind set. I've had some success with them. I mean, do you have any idea what a foul play does to a Salamence who just DD'd that turn? It's not pretty, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's a OHKO for many EV investments. And you can easily live an outrage/dragon claw with some defensive investment. And sure, there are other foul play users, but few quite as bulky as Murkrow.
Click to expand...
I mean, do you have any idea what a Draco Meteor does to a frail Murkrow before it can even try to use a 'weak' attack because of a wild guess?
 

anubite

Virizion said:
I mean, do you have any idea what a Draco Meteor does to a frail Murkrow before it can even try to use a 'weak' attack because of a wild guess?
Click to expand...
A wild guess? There's no wild guess though. Murkrow always goes first. So you always use the move you want to use. Unless this Draco Meteor user is using Prankster too... So he uses Draco Meteor, and you mirror move it back next turn. Maybe Mirror Move seems a little gimmicky, but it's not nearly as much when you know what you're mirroring back. Just as a reminder, I've already said - Mirror Move works with Prankster, it gets +1 priority.

And I've yet to have a Murkrow die from a single non-critting Draco Meteor. Well, I'm not using Murkrow in ubers yet, but he's usable in OU. Not OU material, but he's usable and fairly flexible against whoever switches into him.
 
Virizion

Virizion

anubite said:
A wild guess? There's no wild guess though. Murkrow always goes first. So you always use the move you want to use. Unless this Draco Meteor user is using Prankster too... So he uses Draco Meteor, and you mirror move it back next turn. Maybe Mirror Move seems a little gimmicky, but it's not nearly as much when you know what you're mirroring back. Just as a reminder, I've already said - Mirror Move works with Prankster, it gets +1 priority.

And I've yet to have a Murkrow die from a single non-critting Draco Meteor. Well, I'm not using Murkrow in ubers yet, but he's usable in OU. Not OU material, but he's usable and fairly flexible against whoever switches into him.
Click to expand...
Prankster only affects status moves, not Foul Play/Draco Meteor.
 

ensoriki

He's saying that Prankster gives Mirror move priority, so if Draco meteor was used, Murkrow can mirror move it to use a priority draco meteor on the dragon.
 
Virizion

Virizion

ensoriki said:
He's saying that Prankster gives Mirror move priority, so if Draco meteor was used, Murkrow can mirror move it to use a priority draco meteor on the dragon.
Click to expand...
No, no, no - he was originally saying that you can Foul Play on the Dragon Dance, but if the Mence hasn't been on the field before then, it just becomes a guessing game - you could guess it'd use DD so you'd go for Foul Play after you guess wrong and it DM's you

And Mirror Move is a joke, honestly.
 

133k

Virizion said:
No, no, no - he was originally saying that you can Foul Play on the Dragon Dance, but if the Mence hasn't been on the field before then, it just becomes a guessing game - you could guess it'd use DD so you'd go for Foul Play after you guess wrong and it DM's you

And Mirror Move is a joke, honestly.
Click to expand...
Max spA Timid Mence D-Meteor vs. Max HP/Max spD Eviolite Mukrow:

49.4% - 58.3%

Murkrow's Mirror Move retaliation:

63.9% - 75.3%

You could *easily* roost that off and live another/feather dance.

I'd do my research before assuming to be correct if I were you.
 
Virizion

Virizion

133k said:
Max spA Timid Mence D-Meteor vs. Max HP/Max spD Eviolite Mukrow:

49.4% - 58.3%

Murkrow's Mirror Move retaliation:

63.9% - 75.3%

You could *easily* roost that off and live another/feather dance.

I'd do my research before assuming to be correct if I were you.
Click to expand...
Why use Calm 252 SpD? I'd assume physical hits are a bigger problem if you aren't dedicating a moveslot to Featherdance.

And are you certain that Mirror Move works that way?
 

PokéMontage

But if Mirror Move has priority, won't it fail the first time Salamence uses Draco Meteor? You can't Mirror Move a move that hasn't been used against you yet.
 

133k

Well, if you aren't, then what are you? 252 HP/4 spD with a CM up and D-Meteor still only maxes as 66%

And how else would it work? It copies the last move used by the opponent. Assuming it has priority; either way, MM isn't needed for taking hits.

And I meant the turn after it uses D-Meteor; probably not a smart choice, but still.
 

Bruteboii

PokéMontage said:
But if Mirror Move has priority, won't it fail the first time Salamence uses Draco Meteor? You can't Mirror Move a move that hasn't been used against you yet.
Click to expand...
If Murkrow is hit first and lives, it can then use Mirror Move with priority next turn to use Draco Meteor... but has anybody run calcs to see how much damage the Draco on Mence would do?
 

Bruteboii

133k said:
Well, if you aren't, then what are you? 252 HP/4 spD with a CM up and D-Meteor still only maxes as 66%

And how else would it work? It copies the last move used by the opponent. Assuming it has priority; either way, MM isn't needed for taking hits.

And I meant the turn after it uses D-Meteor; probably not a smart choice, but still.
Click to expand...
And because ya didn't roost off the damage, Mence will go for the kill. So Murkrow isn't really doing aswell at the job we wanted it to... right?
 
Virizion

Virizion

RaRaRabbit said:
You run max SpD and Calm BECAUSE you can cover physical hits with feather dance.
Click to expand...
Not entirely. One of my many Whimsicotts is Bold with 252HP/252Def and Cotton Guard; it still takes quite a lot from certain physical attacks even at +3 (which is the same boost Murkrow has after FD and Eviolite, but Whimsi has higher HP and nearly the same Defense IIRC).
 

133k

Bruteboii said:
And because ya didn't roost off the damage, Mence will go for the kill. So Murkrow isn't really doing aswell at the job we wanted it to... right?
Click to expand...
It's not like you can't roost instead of MM'ing...

Besides, it can't KO with another DM, and FeatherDance would be useless (The mence in the calc has max-neutral spA)

EDIT: @above

ADAMANT max atk mence outrage(at -2) vs. 252/4 Murkrow:

44.4% - 52.8%

I'm sorry, but your argument is fairly lol worthy...
 

Bruteboii

133k said:
It's not like you can't roost instead of MM'ing...
Click to expand...
I know but in that sense Mence will hit again (not with Draco Metoer since it'll be weaker) and your stuck just taking the new hit, and Roosting that again next turn if I followed that correctly

However I guess you would use FeatherDance then, and possibly force the switch. It goes either or to be honest

edit: It's still just Lolsome to imagine Murkrow up against the previously Uber Mence
 

133k

Bruteboii said:
I know but in that sense Mence will hit again (not with Draco Metoer since it'll be weaker) and your stuck just taking the new hit, and Roosting that again next turn if I followed that correctly

However I guess you would use FeatherDance then, and possibly force the switch. It goes either or to be honest

edit: It's still just Lolsome to imagine Murkrow up against the previously Uber Mence
Click to expand...
If it's mixed it'll be doing even less damage. Either way Murkrow can "wall/stall" an un-boosted Salamence fairly easily, since it's two strongest moves can be stalled out fairly with ease.
 

Bruteboii

133k said:
ADAMANT max atk mence outrage(at -2) vs. 252/4 Murkrow:

44.4% - 52.8%

I'm sorry, but your argument is fairly lol worthy...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the calcs. That put you'd just up another FD and Mence is really running low on choices but to switch.
edit: yeah I see now. I didn't really think it'd be very effective but I was proven wrong. Is Foul Play affected by the base ATK of the opponent? So if Mence was FeathDance'd is Foul Play weaker?
 

133k

Bruteboii said:
Thanks for the calcs. That put you'd just up another FD and Mence is really running low on choices but to switch.
edit: yeah I see now. I didn't really think it'd be very effective but I was proven wrong. Is Foul Play affected by the base ATK of the opponent? So if Mence was FeathDance'd is Foul Play weaker?
Click to expand...
No problem.

And yeah, sadly if you FD'd, Foul Play would only do 1/2 damage...
 
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