Resource Monotype SM Viability Rankings

[Tyke]

In what world is Keldeo uncommon? Its on basically every single fighting team and gets its far share on water as well. The fighting sample team we have features keldeo as well. It is not uncommon. Thundurus is less common, but still popular on the ladder and it is still a good threat. In fact, the normal sample team gets dumpstered by it, so even well constructed teams can fall to it.

It is not just those two as well. It's a better check to Breloom than Staraptor as they fall to Rock Tomb. Breloom is very common on both Grass and Fighting. Hydro Pump Mega Sharpedo is dangerous to both Staraptor and Bewear, although it can be dealt with Pory2 as long as it has thunderbolt and Knock Off Gliscor (even with Ice Beam, pory2 is still losing eviolite and Raptor does nothing back) come to mind,

Here is recent replay of it doing work against your average fighting team: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-562160040

No, I mean Fighting itself is a pretty uncommon type, so there's not much value in c-teaming it.

Also the replay posted was pretty bad considering how game-changing Mega-Medicham's High Jump Kick miss was and how unwise it was of the Fighting Player to sack Terrakion when he had bullet punch Mega-Medicham on hand to check it. He should've just sacked Kommo-O.

Also regarding the other threats mentioned:

• Breloom is not checked reliably by Mega-Audino, since after a swords dance you are almost OHKOd by Bullet Seed (assuming 3 hits), especially if it's on Grass and is benefitting from the Grassy Terrain. Conversely, Mega-Audino cannot OHKO Breloom without SpA investment. Oh yeah, and Spore.
  
  +2 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 369-435 (90.2 - 106.3%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
  +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 321-378 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  0 SpA Audino-Mega Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Breloom: 216-254 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• Gliscor is definitely not checked at all by Mega-Audino since it either runs Taunt, Toxic, or Swords Dance, all of which will beat Mega-Audino 1v1.
  
  
• "Hydro Pump Mega-Sharpedo" is checked by Porygon2 regardless of whether it has Thunderbolt or not. You only lose if that Sharpedo gets several clutch defense drops. And also a healthy Staraptor checks, so Mega-Audino definitely isn't necessary to manage this threat.
  
  -1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 136-160 (36.4 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  0 SpA Sharpedo-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Staraptor: 192-226 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  252 Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 108-127 (28.9 - 34%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO
  0 SpA Sharpedo-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 90-106 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO
  
  
• Keldeo still 2HKOs Mega-Audino with Hydro Pump. Sure, you can then go to Chansey, but at that point M-Audino is at <=50% health and can no longer switch into Secret Sword and can be easily taken out by teammates on Fighting anyways.
  
  252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Audino-Mega: 219-258 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  0 SpA Audino-Mega Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 156-186 (48.2 - 57.5%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO

So yes, Mega-Audino is an inconsistent and broadly mediocre response to spare handful of threats and does not deserve any higher than C-ranking on Normal at this time.

 

[Shouting]

Fighting is probably one of the most common types on ladder. It may not be the most viable, but the release of Mega-Medi has a lot of players using fighting.

The High Jump Kick miss isn't as important as it looks. Dgleam would have killed without recoil, and the the roll from Heracross was high.
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 237-280 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 118-139 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO

The KO chance really isn't that high.


Breloom that carrying Rock Tomb do not carry SD, therefore Audino can switch in pretty comfortably. Audino also gets Surf / Ice Beam so it can definitely take most Gliscor sets without suffering a Knock Off.

The most common Keldeo set is scarf, I have not seen Specs Keldeo too often, and literally nothing on normal can possibly counter Specs Keldeo, it doesn't mean Audino is bad.

 

[Funbot28]

UR -> B-Rank

So I have been using Mega Audino quite extensively on my balance Normal teams and it its extremely effective at its role as either a bulk wincon or cleric. The additional Fairy-typing really helps Normal out due to it being an additional addition to Fighting types (since relying solely on Staraptor can be overbearing at times, especially since it can avoid the 2HKo from Specs Secret Sword Keldeo) and also helps Normal beat out Mega Sableye (which was one the most annoying mons for balance teams pre Mega Audino and Pidgeot's release). It also compliments the Eviolite core immensely, acting as a great Knock Off sponge. Its offensive CM sets are also quite useful in luring out Steels and can help with the Rock matchup as well. Overall, while Mega Pidgeot might be the better option for more offensive teams, I still feel Mega Audino possesses enough positive traits to warrant it a rank in B.

 

[Vid]

Here's VR Update

VR Update

Normal

Mega Pidgeot Unranked---->B

Mega Audino Unranked--->C
Fighting

Mega Medicham Unranked--->S
Psychic

Mega Medicham Unranked---->S

Alakazam C--->A

Mega Alakazam S---->A
Ground

Mega Steelix Unranked--->D

Mega Garchomp A--->B
Steel

Empoleon Unranked---->C
Poison

Mega Beedrill D--->C
Grass

Whimsicott A--->B
Water

Mega Slowbro S--->A
Electric

Alolan Golem A--->S
Dark

Mega Sharpedo S--->A
Fairy

Whimsicott B--->C

Comfey D--->Unranked

Please note the next VR Update will be after Mega Medicham suspect test

 

[smub]

I've wanted to make some of these nominations for some time:

Alolan Ninetales: A=>S (Ice)

Alolan Ninetales offers irreplaceable support for Ice teams with Aurora Veil. This greatly helps teammates such as Avalugg and Piloswine survive hits better, as well as giving Cloyster better setup opportunities. Its part Fairy typing along with great Fairy STAB in Moonblast allows it to deal with some very threatening Pokemon for Ice, such as Mega Sableye, Keldeo, and Mega Medicham. It also sports an amazing speed tier of 109, outspeeding the previously mentioned Keldeo and Mega Medicham, while also outspeeding Terrakion and Kyurem-Black. With Encore, it can disrupt hazard leads and setup sweepers, giving Cloyster yet another great setup opportunity, or bringing in a wallbreaker safely to remove the Encored Pokemon. All of these amazing benefits that Alolan Ninetales provides make it a definite staple on any Ice team. For these reasons, I nominate Alolan Ninetales for S rank on Ice.

Cloyster: B=>A (Ice)

Cloyster is without a doubt Ice's most threatening setup sweeper. With access to great coverage in Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, Hydro Pump, and even Hidden Power Fire if you're looking to sweep Steel easier, Cloyster is almost entirely unresisted. Its most devastating set in my opinion is definitely the Waterium Z set(posted by Tyke in the Creative/Underrated Sets Thread). With this item, Cloyster is capable of breaking through some of Ice's very troublesome threats like Celesteela, Mega Scizor, and Magearna. A Naive nature will allow you to outspeed every relevant Scarfer on Fire, Flying, and Fighting after +2, and if you choose to run a Rash nature to further increase the power of your Hydro Vortex, it'll become a far more devastating force for types such as Psychic and the aforementioned Steel. While it does have certain flaws holding it back, such as being outsped by base 110 Scarfers after +2 and having subpar Special Defense even behind an Aurora Veil, it is still fully deserving of A rank on Ice.

Mandibuzz: A=>S (Dark)

Mandibuzz carries many amazing roles for Dark: a hazard remover, the second best switch in to Fighting type attacks, and being an amazing check for some very threatening setup sweepers such as Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Gyarados, and Azumarill. Even on offensive Dark teams, all 3 of the roles previously listed greatly help these builds, while also being able to offer U-Turn momentum for wallbreakers like Hydreigon and Tyranitar, or cleaners like Mega Sharpedo and Greninja. Mandibuzz filling all of these incredible roles make it a staple on any Dark build, and for that reason, Mandibuzz is entirely deserving of S rank on Dark.

Cobalion: A=>S (Fighting)

Cobalion is incredibly important to Fighting, due to being an amazing Stealth Rocker(which gives Infernape the freedom of being a cleaner/wallbreaker) and being an all-around fantastic lead in general. Its part Steel typing grants it very important Flying, Psychic, and Fairy neutralities. Access to Taunt can somewhat make up for Fighting's next to non-existent hazard control, which is near essential vs Bug and Rock, preventing Sticky Web and allowing Fighting to maintain its decent speed control. Thunder Wave is an awesome support option, being able to slow down threats like Mega Pinsir, Latios, and Gengar, and is another great way for Fighting to maintain its speed control. Volt Switch is another great option for providing momentum to your sweepers/wallbreakers such as Mega Medicham, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape. Cobalion is an essential pick on any Fighting team, which makes it all the more deserving of its S rank on Fighting.

Nidoking: B=>A (Ground)

While Landorus I is the better special wallbreaker for Ground, Nidoking is still very deserving of A rank. It possesses a few traits that separate it from Landorus I, such as being able to guarantee an OHKO on any variant of Ferrothorn, as well as being able to remove Toxic Spikes thanks to its Poison typing, which greatly helps Hippowdon and Gastrodon's survivability. But one of the greatest parts of Nidoking as a special wallbreaker is that it allows you to utilize one of Ground's most devastating wincons in Double Dance Landorus T. While it does have a somewhat mediocre Speed tier holding it back, as well as having a lot of its fantastic matchups done better by Landorus I, such as Grass, Fairy, and arguably Steel, it's still a great wallbreaker that deserves the A ranking on Ground.

Scyther: D=>Unranked (Bug)

There is virtually no reason to ever use Scyther on Bug. It's outclassed as a setup sweeper by Mega Pinsir, who has the same speed tier, but with more power and better coverage. And on Bug builds without Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor is the superior setup sweeper due to having a better defensive typing, more power, and more powerful coverage options such as Superpower. It's a waste of a teamslot, and it shouldn't be seen as if it has something redeemable to offer when it doesn't.

Glaceon: D to Unranked

There is no real purpose to Glaceon on Ice. As a wallbreaker, Lapras, Walrein, and Rotom Fridge do the job better due to having helpful secondary typings, better abilities, and more useful coverage. Ice isn't in desperate need of a cleric role, and even if it were, Articuno would still do that job better. While having a very crippling Stealth Rock weakness, it at least offers a helpful Fighting neutrality, better sustain, and better overall bulk. So in sumation, Glaceon is outclassed at everything it tries to do, and it doesn't deserve a spot on the VR at all.

Edit: Because I'm blind and unattentive, I didn't realize that Comfey was already dropped in the recent VR update, so I removed that nomination.

 

[mushamu]

c

I've wanted to make some of these nominations for some time:

Alolan Ninetales: A=>S (Ice)

Alolan Ninetales offers irreplaceable support for Ice teams with Aurora Veil. This greatly helps teammates such as Avalugg and Piloswine survive hits better, as well as giving Cloyster better setup opportunities. Its part Fairy typing along with great Fairy STAB in Moonblast allows it to deal with some very threatening Pokemon for Ice, such as Mega Sableye, Keldeo, and Mega Medicham. It also sports an amazing speed tier of 109, outspeeding the previously mentioned Keldeo and Mega Medicham, while also outspeeding Terrakion and Kyurem-Black. With Encore, it can disrupt hazard leads and setup sweepers, giving Cloyster yet another great setup opportunity, or bringing in a wallbreaker safely to remove the Encored Pokemon. All of these amazing benefits that Alolan Ninetales provides make it a definite staple on any Ice team. For these reasons, I nominate Alolan Ninetales for S rank on Ice.

Cloyster: B=>A (Ice)

Cloyster is without a doubt Ice's most threatening setup sweeper. With access to great coverage in Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, Hydro Pump, and even Hidden Power Fire if you're looking to sweep Steel easier, Cloyster is almost entirely unresisted. Its most devastating set in my opinion is definitely the Waterium Z set(posted by Tyke in the Creative/Underrated Sets Thread). With this item, Cloyster is capable of breaking through some of Ice's very troublesome threats like Celesteela, Mega Scizor, and Magearna. A Naive nature will allow you to outspeed every relevant Scarfer on Fire, Flying, and Fighting after +2, and if you choose to run a Rash nature to further increase the power of your Hydro Vortex, it'll become a far more devastating force for types such as Psychic and the aforementioned Steel. While it does have certain flaws holding it back, such as being outsped by base 110 Scarfers and having subpar Special Defense even behind an Aurora Veil, it is still fully deserving of A rank on Ice.

Mandibuzz: A=>S (Dark)

Mandibuzz carries many amazing roles for Dark: a hazard remover, the second best switch in to Fighting type attacks, and being an amazing check for some very threatening setup sweepers such as Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Gyarados, and Azumarill. Even on offensive Dark teams, all 3 of the roles previously listed greatly help these builds, while also being able to offer U-Turn momentum for wallbreakers like Hydreigon and Tyranitar, or cleaners like Mega Sharpedo and Greninja. Mandibuzz filling all of these incredible roles make it a staple on any Dark build, and for that reason, Mandibuzz is entirely deserving of S rank on Dark.

Cobalion: A=>S (Fighting)

Cobalion is incredibly important to Fighting, due to being an amazing Stealth Rocker(which gives Infernape the freedom of being a cleaner/wallbreaker) and being an all-around fantastic lead in general. Its part Steel typing grants it very important Flying, Psychic, and Fairy neutralities. Access to Taunt can somewhat make up for Fighting's next to non-existent hazard control, which is near essential vs Bug and Rock, preventing Sticky Web and allowing Fighting to maintain its decent speed control. Thunder Wave is an awesome support option, being able to slow down threats like Mega Pinsir, Latios, and Gengar, and is another great way for Fighting to maintain its speed control. Volt Switch is another great option for providing momentum to your sweepers/wallbreakers such as Mega Medicham, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape. Cobalion is an essential pick on any Fighting team, which makes it all the more deserving of its S rank on Fighting.


Here are some Pokemon that I think should be dropped:

Scyther: D=>Unranked (Bug)

There is virtually no reason to ever use Scyther on Bug. It's outclassed as a setup sweeper by Mega Pinsir, who has the same speed tier, but with more power and better coverage. And on Bug builds without Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor is the superior setup sweeper due to having a better defensive typing, more power, and more powerful coverage options such as Superpower. It's a waste of a teamslot, and it shouldn't be seen as if it has something redeemable to offer when it doesn't.

Comfey: D to Unranked

This is a similar situation to Scyther, in that Comfey is outclassed at just about everything it tries to do. Tapu Fini is already an available option to prevent hazards, so Comfey's cleric role isnt needed at all. Tapu Fini also does this while offering an extremely useful Fire resistance. The CM wincon set doesn't perform very well when Comfey's pure Fairy typing doesn't offer any extra resistances, and it only enhances matchups that the type should be winning anyway. Whimsicott even offers Leech Seed better, due to it having priority, having some helpful Ground and Water resistances, and getting off faster U-turn pivots. Overall, Comfey is extremely outclassed and doesn't deserve the D ranking for Fairy.

Comfey already got the drop. They just haven't applied the changes yet.

 

[Tyke]

Are we placing Mega Steelix at D-rank just as a placeholder (on Ground) while we see exactly how it settles into the meta (like we did with Mega Bee?) or is there a reason the VR council feels Mega-Lix is D-rank worthy?

 

[Flamestar]

Toxicroak (Fighting) B ==> A

I honestly think Toxicroak should be A rank. It has a decent movepool, and can check many counters and stalls, such as Sableye and even Toxapex. Poison Touch + Fake Out is always good, but its typing may suck. All in all, Toxicroak should get it's rightfully deserved A-Rank.

 

[smub]

Toxicroak (Fighting) B ==> A

I honestly think Toxicroak should be A rank. It has a decent movepool, and can check many counters and stalls, such as Sableye and even Toxapex. Poison Touch + Fake Out is always good, but its typing may suck. All in all, Toxicroak should get it's rightfully deserved A-Rank.

But Toxicroak only beats Toxapex if it has Earthquake or Taunt, both of which are suboptimal moves on Toxicroak. Also, Poison Touch+Fake Out isn't worth giving up a Water immunity, especially when it also needs that to beat Toxapex. And regarding Sableye, if it's carrying Foul Play, SD Toxicroak doesn't beat it, and if you're referring to a Nasty Plot set, the best move it has to hit Mega Sableye with would be Shadow Ball, which is another suboptimal option. While Toxicroak does have its positives, it just isn't quite up to par with the other A ranks on Fighting.

 

[mushamu]

Toxicroak (Fighting) B ==> A

I honestly think Toxicroak should be A rank. It has a decent movepool, and can check many counters and stalls, such as Sableye and even Toxapex. Poison Touch + Fake Out is always good, but its typing may suck. All in all, Toxicroak should get it's rightfully deserved A-Rank.

Honestly, Toxicroak deserves its B ranking because it's not really nessecary for a good team. Thankfully, CM SAB exists and most ghost users tend to be lured into using that. It doesn't nessicarily have to be on a team to make it good. And the main reason why people run Toxicroak is b/c of Dry Skin.

 

[smub]

So after testing some of these Pokemon for a bit, here are some placements that I think would be best for them:

Gourgeist-Super: C=>B (Grass)

With Mega Medicham around, Grass now has an even worse matchup against Psychic than it already did previously. While Gourgeist-Super doesn't save that entire matchup, it patches up the Mega Medicham problem for the most part. The only way Mega Medicham can beat Gourgeist-Super is if it has Ice Punch, and even then, Jolly Mega Medicham can't even guarantee the 2HKO:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And even with all this in mind, since Thunder Punch is the preferred elemental punch for Mega Medicham right now, it may not have to face Ice Punch at all. And if Mega Medicham ends up being banned, Gourgeist-Super is still great in it's own right. It takes pressure off of Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn to handle physical threats like Mega Scizor, Heracross, and Excadrill, while also being an amazing spinblocker that isn't easily worn down the way Dhelmise is. This greatly compliments Grass's hazard stacking core against types that are reliant on Rapid Spin for hazard removal, such as Bug, Fire, Ice, and Ground. With Gourgeist-Super's solid defensive utility, it is fully deserving of at least B rank on Grass.

Krookodile: B=>A (Dark), and C=>B (Ground)

After testing Krookodile quite a bit on both Dark and Ground, I definitely think that it should be bumped up for both its types.

Starting with Dark, it serves as a great Stealth Rocker. What sets it apart from Tyranitar is having a better speed tier, Knock Off and Taunt utility, and an Electric immunity to prevent Electric teams from constantly Volt Switch pivoting. Having Krookodile as a Stealth Rocker can allow Tyranitar to fill a wallbreaking role with a Choice Band. Additionally, with Intimidate, it can help Mandibuzz sponge physical hits better(It also helps Mega Sableye do this, but Stealth Rock Krookodile is mainly for offensive Dark teams rather than balanced ones). In addition to being an amazing Stealth Rocker for offensive Dark teams, it also does great as a Scarfer, being able to outspeed and revenge kill threats like Tapu Koko and Mega Charizard Y. It's also one of the very few Dark types that has a chance of OHKOing offensive Magearna, which is an insanely huge threat for Dark. Due to the amazing utility it offers offensively and defensively, Krookodile is definitely deserving of A rank on Dark.

As for Ground, the Scarf set works nicely here as well. With Pursuit, it's capable of easily removing threats like Scarf Victini after it goes for V-Create, Gengar, Latios, and Alolan Raichu once Electric Terrain wears off. In addition to Scarf, Ground also benefits from the Choice Band set, allowing it to tear through Balanced Psychic and Ghost teams. While it sadly has a lack of power without a Choice Band, and only a decent speed tier without a Choice Scarf, it still has a solid offensive presence on Ground, and should certainly be at least B rank for Ground.

Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)

Alolan Marowak is without a doubt Ghost's best and strongest physical wallbreaker. With its large amount of raw power, it's capable of breaking through some incredibly huge threats to Ghost, such as Alolan Muk, Magearna, and Toxapex. Having access to one of the best physical Ghost moves in the game in Shadow Bone just further bolsters its amazing wallbreaking potential. It exceeds Golurk as a Stealth Rocker due to having a larger offensive presence, as well as offering more useful resistances like Ice, Grass, Fairy, Steel, and Fire. Overall, Alolan Marowak is essential to both offensive and balanced Ghost teams, and it is more than worthy of S rank on Ghost.

Stunfisk: D=>B (Electric)

I kept hearing Escoffier talk about how Stunfisk was a good Stealth Rocker for Electric, and I always kept dismissing it because Alolan Golem was much better at the role. While it is, I decided to try Stunfisk out for a bit, and it proved to be much better than I initially thought. For starters, it's one of the few things on Electric that can switch into Specs Nihilego, and thanks to being able to sustain itself decently well with Pain Split, it can switch in multiple times, unlike Magnezone. With Static, it's able to potentially punish Rapid Spinners that try to remove its Rocks, and it can offensively threaten nearly every relevant Defogger barring Latios and Latias, and neither of them will appreciate a potential Discharge paralysis. While Alolan Golem will always be the better Stealth Rocker, Stunfisk offers enough utility to warrant its placement at B rank on Electric.

 

[mushamu]

So after testing some of these Pokemon for a bit, here are some placements that I think would be best for them:

Gourgeist-Super: C=>B (Grass)

With Mega Medicham around, Grass now has an even worse matchup against Psychic than it already did previously. While Gourgeist-Super doesn't save that entire matchup, it patches up the Mega Medicham problem for the most part. The only way Mega Medicham can beat Gourgeist-Super is if it has Ice Punch, and even then, Jolly Mega Medicham can't even guarantee the 2HKO:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And even with all this in mind, since Thunder Punch is the preferred elemental punch for Mega Medicham right now, it may not have to face Ice Punch at all. And if Mega Medicham ends up being banned, Gourgeist-Super is still great in it's own right. It takes pressure off of Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn to handle physical threats like Mega Scizor, Heracross, and Excadrill, while also being an amazing spinblocker that isn't easily worn down the way Dhelmise is. This greatly compliments Grass's hazard stacking core against types that are reliant on Rapid Spin for hazard removal, such as Bug, Fire, Ice, and Ground. With Gourgeist-Super's solid defensive utility, it is fully deserving of at least B rank on Grass.

Krookodile: B=>A (Dark), and C=>B (Ground)

After testing Krookodile quite a bit on both Dark and Ground, I definitely think that it should be bumped up for both its types.

Starting with Dark, it serves as a great Stealth Rocker. What sets it apart from Tyranitar is having a better speed tier, Knock Off and Taunt utility, and an Electric immunity to prevent Electric teams from constantly Volt Switch pivoting. Having Krookodile as a Stealth Rocker can allow Tyranitar to fill a wallbreaking role with a Choice Band. Additionally, with Intimidate, it can help Mandibuzz sponge physical hits better(It also helps Mega Sableye do this, but Stealth Rock Krookodile is mainly for offensive Dark teams rather than balanced ones). In addition to being an amazing Stealth Rocker for offensive Dark teams, it also does great as a Scarfer, being able to outspeed and revenge kill threats like Tapu Koko and Mega Charizard Y. It's also one of the very few Dark types that has a chance of OHKOing offensive Magearna, which is an insanely huge threat for Dark. Due to the amazing utility it offers offensively and defensively, Krookodile is definitely deserving of A rank on Dark.

As for Ground, the Scarf set works nicely here as well. With Pursuit, it's capable of easily removing threats like Scarf Victini after it goes for V-Create, Gengar, Latios, and Alolan Raichu once Electric Terrain wears off. In addition to Scarf, Ground also benefits from the Choice Band set, allowing it to tear through Balanced Psychic and Ghost teams. While it sadly has a lack of power without a Choice Band, and only a decent speed tier without a Choice Scarf, it still has a solid offensive presence on Ground, and should certainly be at least B rank for Ground.

Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)

Alolan Marowak is without a doubt Ghost's best and strongest physical wallbreaker. With its large amount of raw power, it's capable of breaking through some incredibly huge threats to Ghost, such as Alolan Muk, Magearna, and Toxapex. Having access to one of the best physical Ghost moves in the game in Shadow Bone just further bolsters its amazing wallbreaking potential. It exceeds Golurk as a Stealth Rocker due to having a larger offensive presence, as well as offering more useful resistances like Ice, Grass, Fairy, Steel, and Fire. Overall, Alolan Marowak is essential to both offensive and balanced Ghost teams, and it is more than worthy of S rank on Ghost.

Stunfisk: D=>B (Electric)

I kept hearing Escoffier talk about how Stunfisk was a good Stealth Rocker for Electric, and I always kept dismissing it because Alolan Golem was much better at the role. While it is, I decided to try Stunfisk out for a bit, and it proved to be much better than I initially thought. For starters, it's one of the few things on Electric that can switch into Specs Nihilego, and thanks to being able to sustain itself decently well with Pain Split, it can switch in multiple times, unlike Magnezone. With Static, it's able to potentially punish Rapid Spinners that try to remove its Rocks, and it can offensively threaten nearly every relevant Defogger barring Latios and Latias, and neither of them will appreciate a potential Discharge paralysis. While Alolan Golem will always be the better Stealth Rocker, Stunfisk offers enough utility to warrant its placement at B rank on Electric.

Marowak-A should not be S ranked on ghost. I acknowledge the fact that it checks many things in this metagame, but let's look at its downfalls.

- It's speed is pitiful, as a mere 45 base speed leaves it outspend my many threats.
- It's typing leaves it weak to the ever-so-common stealth rocks, chipping away 25% of its health every time it switches in.
- Lackluster bulk along with stealth rock allows the opponent to weaken it easily. In most cases, usually Hyper offensive teams, you would have to pray that Marowak-A survives a hit to even touch the opposing Pokémon.
- Due to Ghost teams having little to no hazard control, once stealth rocks get up, the rest of the match will be a pain for Marowak.
- It is weak to Earthquake, a very common attacking move even on some defensive Pokémon.
- Using Flare Blitz sacrifices Marowak's longlivity due to its recoil, and using Fire Punch sacrifices its wallbreaking Potential.
- Investing in its speed gives Marowak's bulk away and Investing in HP hinders its ability to outspeed Pokémon and break through them.

These downfalls keep Marowak from becoming S ranked on Ghost. If it maybe had a little more bulk and speed, I would support its raise to S, but for now, it stands as an A rank along with Jellicent.

Stunfisk was already nominated for B rank, although it ended up at D instead.

On Krookodile: OHKOing magearna isn't that big of a deal since most Fairy teams using either Air Baloon magearna and/or Tapu Bulu.

 

[twinkay]

So after testing some of these Pokemon for a bit, here are some placements that I think would be best for them:

Gourgeist-Super: C=>B (Grass)

With Mega Medicham around, Grass now has an even worse matchup against Psychic than it already did previously. While Gourgeist-Super doesn't save that entire matchup, it patches up the Mega Medicham problem for the most part. The only way Mega Medicham can beat Gourgeist-Super is if it has Ice Punch, and even then, Jolly Mega Medicham can't even guarantee the 2HKO:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And even with all this in mind, since Thunder Punch is the preferred elemental punch for Mega Medicham right now, it may not have to face Ice Punch at all. And if Mega Medicham ends up being banned, Gourgeist-Super is still great in it's own right. It takes pressure off of Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn to handle physical threats like Mega Scizor, Heracross, and Excadrill, while also being an amazing spinblocker that isn't easily worn down the way Dhelmise is. This greatly compliments Grass's hazard stacking core against types that are reliant on Rapid Spin for hazard removal, such as Bug, Fire, Ice, and Ground. With Gourgeist-Super's solid defensive utility, it is fully deserving of at least B rank on Grass.

Krookodile: B=>A (Dark), and C=>B (Ground)

After testing Krookodile quite a bit on both Dark and Ground, I definitely think that it should be bumped up for both its types.

Starting with Dark, it serves as a great Stealth Rocker. What sets it apart from Tyranitar is having a better speed tier, Knock Off and Taunt utility, and an Electric immunity to prevent Electric teams from constantly Volt Switch pivoting. Having Krookodile as a Stealth Rocker can allow Tyranitar to fill a wallbreaking role with a Choice Band. Additionally, with Intimidate, it can help Mandibuzz sponge physical hits better(It also helps Mega Sableye do this, but Stealth Rock Krookodile is mainly for offensive Dark teams rather than balanced ones). In addition to being an amazing Stealth Rocker for offensive Dark teams, it also does great as a Scarfer, being able to outspeed and revenge kill threats like Tapu Koko and Mega Charizard Y. It's also one of the very few Dark types that has a chance of OHKOing offensive Magearna, which is an insanely huge threat for Dark. Due to the amazing utility it offers offensively and defensively, Krookodile is definitely deserving of A rank on Dark.

As for Ground, the Scarf set works nicely here as well. With Pursuit, it's capable of easily removing threats like Scarf Victini after it goes for V-Create, Gengar, Latios, and Alolan Raichu once Electric Terrain wears off. In addition to Scarf, Ground also benefits from the Choice Band set, allowing it to tear through Balanced Psychic and Ghost teams. While it sadly has a lack of power without a Choice Band, and only a decent speed tier without a Choice Scarf, it still has a solid offensive presence on Ground, and should certainly be at least B rank for Ground.

I've got to disagree with you here:

On Gourgeist: assuming Mega Medicham does get banned (which is what seems likely), that argument is pretty much invalid. Ice Punch Mega Medicham is still a decent option so I wouldn't say that Gourgeist really deals with that either. Also I do not see any reason a player would stay in Medicham v Gourgeist and you can easily pivot into Victini, Mew, Meloetta, or Latios (or Infernape or Keldeo on Fighting). Competition for Grass teamslots are extremely high, most teams wanting to fit Breloom / Bulu / Cott / Rotom-M / Celebi / Dhelmise / Serperior into the last three spots. Gourgeist-Super isn't really providing anything nearly as helpful as the other Pokemon is B-rank are. Fighting is already checked defensively by Mega Venusaur, Dhelmise, and Tapu Bulu and offensively by Celebi, Whimsicott, and powerful attackers like the aforementioned Tapu Bulu. Having a sturdy physical wall isn't nearly as great as the other niches Pokemon in B-rank provide. Dhelmise, although lacking Will-O-Wisp, has added utility in hazard removal, ability to trap threats, and effectively having Steel / Ghost STABs. I don't see how Gourgeist would warrant a B-Rank on Grass other than "it checks Mega-Medicham" and "it's a spinblocker" which Dhelmise does already.

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 216-255 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 216-255 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Dhelmise Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 288-342 (110.3 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On Stunfisk: I fail to see how being a much worse rocker than Golem-A as well as having barely any offensive presence warrants a B-Rank. Not to mention that Electric has extremely limited teamslots as well, and Stunfisk is a huge momentum suck for Electric teams.

 

[mushamu]

I've got to disagree with you here:

On Gourgeist: assuming Mega Medicham does get banned (which is what seems likely), that argument is pretty much invalid. Ice Punch Mega Medicham is still a decent option so I wouldn't say that Gourgeist really deals with that either. Also I do not see any reason a player would stay in Medicham v Gourgeist and you can easily pivot into Victini, Mew, Meloetta, or Latios (or Infernape or Keldeo on Fighting). Competition for Grass teamslots are extremely high, most teams wanting to fit Breloom / Bulu / Cott / Rotom-M / Celebi / Dhelmise / Serperior into the last three spots. Gourgeist-Super isn't really providing anything nearly as helpful as the other Pokemon is B-rank are. Fighting is already checked defensively by Mega Venusaur, Dhelmise, and Tapu Bulu and offensively by Celebi, Whimsicott, and powerful attackers like the aforementioned Tapu Bulu. Having a sturdy physical wall isn't nearly as great as the other niches Pokemon in B-rank provide. Dhelmise, although lacking Will-O-Wisp, has added utility in hazard removal, ability to trap threats, and effectively having Steel / Ghost STABs. I don't see how Gourgeist would warrant a B-Rank on Grass other than "it checks Mega-Medicham" and "it's a spinblocker" which Dhelmise does already.

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 216-255 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dhelmise: 216-255 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Dhelmise Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 288-342 (110.3 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On Stunfisk: I fail to see how being a much worse rocker than Golem-A as well as having barely any offensive presence warrants a B-Rank. Not to mention that Electric has extremely limited teamslots as well, and Stunfisk is a huge momentum suck for Electric teams.

Gourgeist can live a V-Create from Victini lol.

And Will-o-wisp + Foul Play are really nice niches to have on grass teams due to HP Fire Venusaur being one of the only checks to Scizor.
Not very sure where to place my thoughts on this one but I would run Gourgeist over Dhelmise on any day of the week.

 

[Vid]

Gourgeist is now blacklisted

Explanation: This has been a topic to move Gourgeist up to B Rank on Grass since ORAS and recently moving Gourgeist to A Rank on Ghost. Gourgeist simply is a mediocre Pokemon without a proper niche and takes up a valuable slot in a Grass team. Most of reasons why it should be moved are like this certain player is successful with Gourgeist, it lives this certain attack, or I've personally used it much success so it should be ranked higher (those aren't valid reasons). The Pokemon Gourgeist is supposed to "check" still have ways around to beat it with ease.
Gourgeist is now blacklisted any future posts on it will be deleted.

 

[StarBlim]

Volbeat D Rank->Unranked

I think this is pretty self explanatory especially since baton pass is banned Volbeat has no reason to be used

 

[The-Vale]

Volbeat D Rank->Unranked

I think this is pretty self explanatory especially since baton pass is banned Volbeat has no reason to be used

Not nessasarily, volbeat has further niches outside of tail glow + baton pass. It is capable of throwing out prankster TWaves and utilising tailwind and encore support as well. While it may not be the most viable mon on bug it certainly has enough of a niche to warrant at it's D ranking.

 

[Havens]

Alolan Muk A -> S (Dark)

To be completely honest, I'm very surprised that Alolan Muk isn't at this level yet, even though I do understand why it is at A Rank. This Pokemon acts both as Dark's premier check to Fairy types bar Magearna, and also could be considered to the extent of being a Specially Defensive Tank given an Assault Vest and a very solid SpDef stat. Granted the common AV on this mon, the standard moveset of Knock Off, Poison Jab/Gunk Shot, Pursuit, and Shadow Sneak can hit almost everything for at least neutral damage, and Poison Touch instills the fear of mons being set on a timer via Poison Status. While it is defensively frail on it's own, it also has very phenominal teammates in Physically Defensive mons such as Mandibuzz or Will-o-Wisps from Mega Sableye, and can really just weaken it's foes to set up mons such as Greninja to sweep.

While I do understand the reasoning for this mon at A rank, I feel as if A) this mon provides so much opportunity for Dark types to prosper, and B) there's really no reason not to use this on any Dark Mono considering how valuable it is when fighting it's weaknesses. For these reasons, I personally believe that Alolan Muk could definitely be deserving of the S Rank.

(P.S. tbh it would probably already be S rank if it also had Fire Punch like normal Muk. Game Freak why?)

 

[smub]

Cradily: A=>S (Grass)

Cradily is extremely important for Grass teams due to being a fantastic Fire and Flying sponge, and checking threats like Mega Charizard Y and Volcarona. It's also the type's best Stealth Rocker, performing this role better than Ferrothorn due to being able to put them up safely in the Fire matchup. Cradily also serves as a nice immunity to Scald thanks to Storm Drain, which really helps out the defensive core, since they don't like burns, as well as Breloom and Tapu Bulu, which would get crippled. Cradily is a defining part of Grass's defensive core, and is fully deserving of S rank on Grass.

 

[adjustments]

Thundurus-T (Flying)

C --->B

Volt Absorb allows Thundy-T to be completely immune to Electric type attacks while also giving some health back plus, it has a great movepool and nice special attack stat letting it return damage greatly. Both Lando's do it better but why not have one of the Lando's and Thundy on an HO Flying team to ensure your immunity to electric type attacks, while Skarmory and Mantine take care of rock and ice attacks.

Tornadus (Flying)

D--->Unranked
Tornadus lacks all bulk and I personally never have seen it used anywhere except on low ladder teams. The only reason it probably is D rank is because of its niche use of Prankster, but it having not a really versatile movepool and lacking bulk on both sides doesn't make it viable for any flying team whatsoever, which leaves it unranked.

 

[mushamu]

Metagross (Psychic) Unranked ---> D or C

I've used this thing as a sash lead and honestly I think it's pretty good. A Steel typing along with a Focus Sash garuantees rocks, as well as a last ditch Explosion boosted from a base 135 Attack. I know that this thing is outclassed by Azelf and Deoxys-S as a Rocks lead, but it can help more in the Fairy matchup seeing that it is one of the most popular types right now, as well as switch in to Fairy type attacks aimed for Medicham. It can also cause more trouble after it has set rocks up, as it has the Physical Attack to do so, along with the coverage, giving it a place on the viability rankings.

Name: suicide lead

move 1: Stealth Rock

move 2: Meteor Mash

move 3: Earthquake

move 4: Explosion

item: Focus Sash

ability: Clear Body

nature: Adamant

evs: 252 Attk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD

Here is the set. It is pretty self explanatory but I'll explain it anyway. Set rocks up, and explode. If you're in the Fairy Rock Ice or Fire matchups Earthquake, Meteor Mash, and Explosion can do quite a lot of things. Adamant is used over Jolly since Adamant further boosts its high Physical Attack, and a base 70 speed doesn't speed tie with many threats anyway. Metagross threatens the faster threats such as Gyarados Charizard and Hydreigon with Explosion, and heavily dents them/takes them down completley.

Therefore, Metagross should be at least D ranked on Psychic.

 

[Novaeu]

Lycanroc (Rock) B --> A

The few words that I can say all relate to how fast this thing is, and paired up with tyranitar who (should have) sand stream can make this one of the fastest sweepers in the game. For rock, the speed is very important, I know that Terrakion is also fast, but again, with sand rush will boost the speed even higher, making it outspeed most pokemon and most choice scarfed pokemon. The set that I use is...

Lycanroc @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

HP: 291
Attack: 329
Defense: 166
SpAtk: 131
SpDef: 167
Speed: 355

I hope this will be considered, and if there is any criticism on this, please tell me!
(P.S I use him myself)

EDIT: I know there are some faster pokemon, but I am saying with the help of sand rush, it can outspeed scarfers and other fast pokemon, so Tyranitar is preferred if you're going to use Lycanroc.

 

[smub]

Lycanroc (Rock) B --> A

The few words that I can say all relate to how fast this thing is, and paired up with tyranitar who (should have) sand stream can make this one of the fastest sweepers in the game. For rock, the speed is very important, I know that Terrakion is also fast, but again, with sand rush will boost the speed even higher, making it outspeed most pokemon and most choice scarfed pokemon. The set that I use is...

Lycanroc @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

HP: 291
Attack: 329
Defense: 166
SpAtk: 131
SpDef: 167
Speed: 355

I hope this will be considered, and if there is any criticism on this, please tell me!
(P.S I use him myself)

EDIT: I know there are some faster pokemon, but I am saying with the help of sand rush, it can outspeed scarfers and other fast pokemon, so Tyranitar is preferred if you're going to use Lycanroc.

The main problem that Lycanroc-Midday has is its lack of strong coverage. Rock's other forms of speed control in Shuckle's Sticky Web and Mega Aerodactyl are generally more reliable, since Shuckle can offer further utility with Knock Off and Encore, and Mega Aerodactyl has more valuable coverage in Aerial Ace and Aqua Tail. There simply isn't much justifying Lycanroc's use at all over Rock's other speed control options.

And regarding your set, here are some suggestions I have:

- Change the item to Rockium Z
- Make it Adamant instead of Jolly
- Replace Rock Slide with Stone Edge
- And lastly, replace Crunch and Taunt with Fire Fang and Brick Break. They can make sure you aren't completely shut down by Magearna and Bisharp.

 

[Novaeu]

The main problem that Lycanroc-Midday has is its lack of strong coverage. Rock's other forms of speed control in Shuckle's Sticky Web and Mega Aerodactyl are generally more reliable, since Shuckle can offer further utility with Knock Off and Encore, and Mega Aerodactyl has more valuable coverage in Aerial Ace and Aqua Tail. There simply isn't much justifying Lycanroc's use at all over Rock's other speed control options.

And regarding your set, here are some suggestions I have:

- Change the item to Rockium Z
- Make it Adamant instead of Jolly
- Replace Rock Slide with Stone Edge
- And lastly, replace Crunch and Taunt with Fire Fang and Brick Break. They can make sure you aren't completely shut down by Magearna and Bisharp.

Thanks!

 

[Haaku.]

A -> S (Fighting)

Cobalion on mono Fighting teams is nigh mandatory due to being the best user of Stealth Rock the type has at its disposal with the added benefits of being a great physical pivot, Taunt user, status spreader, and possessing a very solid Steel type to boot. This Pokemon simply does so much for Fighting that it should be on nearly every single competitive Fighting team. I think of Cobalion as the Fighting/Steel version of Landorus-Therian. Even though it lacks the versatility, and its set is usually predictable, it does so many things for one Pokemon. Cobalion's one of the better support Pokemon in the metagame right now. As stated before, its Steel typing is greatly appreciated as it becomes capable of taking most Psychic, Fairy, and especially Flying attacks, a feat no other Fighting type shares, plus useful resistances to Grass, Dragon, Steel, and Ice. An immunity to Poison and Toxic also brings a fair advantage in the Poison matchup which is otherwise very tough to deal with for Fighting, and on the offensive end, Cobalion may be on the weaker side but it still brings an offensive advantage with the usual combination of Thunder Wave and Iron Head, which especially bothers Fairy types that Fighting so desperately struggles with, and it also has access to Volt Switch, allowing Cobalion to pivot out.


A few calcs:
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion in Grassy Terrain: 74-87 (20 - 23.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion in Grassy Terrain: 118-140 (31.8 - 37.8%) -- 73.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 255-301 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 144-171 (38.9 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 88-105 (23.7 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 188 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 277-327 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 87-103 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 294-346 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery