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Alphabet Soup (cause I think that's funny)
The premise: Simply it's alphabet cup but with abilities, meaning the first letter of a Pokemon's original name give them access to all abilities that start with the same letter (as well as their base abilities if nothing else is good)
For example: Charizard is able to get things like Cud Chew and Compound Eyes
And Gengar would be able to not only get abilities like Good as Gold but also Hadron Engine because of Haunter
Most of the obvious abilities would be banned like Moody, Huge/Pure Power, and traping abilities but otherwise I currently wouldn't know what could/should be banned. Though I do know that Zoroark and Zangoose get literally nothing from this cause of zen mode and zero to hero being their only options .
Doesn't sound too bad, but like Xenon said, abilities shouldn't carry over to the next evolution, and you didn't really bother with examples other than Gengar, you have to try a bit harder with that kind of stuff...
It feels like it would be too limited, there doesn't seem to be that many good/decent mons that get abilities better than what they currently have, like out of all the possible Adaptability users only Annihilape may see any play, for Drought we would have to wait for Delphox to get any Fire-Type at all, but maybe Drizzle Dondozo could be good, and then there is Contrary Chi-Yu who would most likely end banned anyway.
Doesn't sound too bad, but like Xenon said, abilities shouldn't carry over to the next evolution, and you didn't really bother with examples other than Gengar, you have to try a bit harder with that kind of stuff...
It feels like it would be too limited, there doesn't seem to be that many good/decent mons that get abilities better than what they currently have, like out of all the possible Adaptability users only Annihilape may see any play, for Drought we would have to wait for Delphox to get any Fire-Type at all, but maybe Drizzle Dondozo could be good, and then there is Contrary Chi-Yu who would most likely end banned anyway.
How does Drizzle+Drought+Desolate Land+Delta Stream work? Or Sand Stream+Snow Warning?
S mons might be broken with their 50+ abilities despite the fact that two of those abilities are Stall and Slow Start.
F gets Fluffy+Fur Coat+Filter+Flash Fire, making it very difficult to break with contact moves, along with Flame Body to punish contact moves.
How does Drizzle+Drought+Desolate Land+Delta Stream work? Or Sand Stream+Snow Warning?
S mons might be broken with their 50+ abilities despite the fact that two of those abilities are Stall and Slow Start.
F gets Fluffy+Fur Coat+Filter+Flash Fire, making it very difficult to break with contact moves, along with Flame Body to punish contact moves.
Id say alphabetical order, so whichever is dead last in that interaction applies.
F seems cool until it takes a peak at Teravolt and Mold Breaker mons.
I'd love to actually think about this despite it being a chaotic hellish mess lol
Some combos could be interesting. Aerialate Altaria and Bad Dreams Banette could be manageable (especially with Sleep Moves Clause) but Beast Boost Baxcalibur could be a problem.
The letter C is way more broken than you may have realized, containing Contrary, Comatose, and Compound Eyes. D contains four abilities that impact the weather, and Dry Skin really hopes it doesn't end on Drought or Desolate Land.
E is probably fine, though Electrode probably likes getting Earth Eater and Electric Surge. F is interesting because it gives you Fluffy + Flash Fire, though you also have to decide how that interacts with Fur Coat. G has Grassy Surge and Grass Pelt, alongside the scarier combo of Guard Dog and Guts. H has Hardron Engine and Hustle, so increase both of your attacking stats but low accuracy. I has Intimidate, Intrepid Sword, Iron Barbs, Infiltrator and Illusion. J is for Justified, K is for Keen Eye and Klutz, sadly they get the short end of the stick. L has Lightning Rod, Libero, Levitate and Long Reach, which could have some use.
M is the overload. Mimicry, Mold Breaker, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Misty Surge, Mirror Armor, Merciless, Marvel Scale, Mega Launcher, Magnet Pull, Multiscale, Mycelium Might, Motor Drive and Moxie. I'm sure some wall would love this combination of abilities.
N has No Guard, Natural Cure, and Neutralizing Gas. Might want to check how that gas works, and ight want to see who benefits from No Guard being in play. O has Opportunist and Orichalcum Pulse, which are both decent abilities but are probably the least broken thing so far. P meanwhile has Poison Heal, Parental Bond, Perish Body, Pixilate, Power Spot, Prankster, Pressure, Protosynthesis, Protean, Punk Rock, Psychic Surge, Punk Rock, Purifying Salt... and Primordial Sea. Another letter with way too many abilities under its belt. Q has Quark Drive, Queenly Majesty, Quick Draw and Quick Feet, which Quagsire, Qwilfish and Quaquavel could probably use well.
I was going to go on, but R, S, and T have so many abilities each that it is too easy to get lost. I think you would need to but huge restrictions on the abilities if this were to work, because some of these letters would have WAY too much going on to make gameplay fun. Every time you switch in a Sandy Shocks you have to wait three minutes for all the abilities to trigger. (Will mention that this also contains Snow Cloak + Slush Rush + Snow Warning, as well as Sand Stream + Sand Rush + Sand Force + Sand Veil. Don't mess with S).
I only indulged this because at first I thought this was the concept of the original post, but then I realized my mistake. If you give a Pokemon all of the abilities with their starting letter, that is too many abilities.
Some combos could be interesting. Aerialate Altaria and Bad Dreams Banette could be manageable (especially with Sleep Moves Clause) but Beast Boost Baxcalibur could be a problem.
The letter C is way more broken than you may have realized, containing Contrary, Comatose, and Compound Eyes. D contains four abilities that impact the weather, and Dry Skin really hopes it doesn't end on Drought or Desolate Land.
E is probably fine, though Electrode probably likes getting Earth Eater and Electric Surge. F is interesting because it gives you Fluffy + Flash Fire, though you also have to decide how that interacts with Fur Coat. G has Grassy Surge and Grass Pelt, alongside the scarier combo of Guard Dog and Guts. H has Hardron Engine and Hustle, so increase both of your attacking stats but low accuracy. I has Intimidate, Intrepid Sword, Iron Barbs, Infiltrator and Illusion. J is for Justified, K is for Keen Eye and Klutz, sadly they get the short end of the stick. L has Lightning Rod, Libero, Levitate and Long Reach, which could have some use.
M is the overload. Mimicry, Mold Breaker, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Misty Surge, Mirror Armor, Merciless, Marvel Scale, Mega Launcher, Magnet Pull, Multiscale, Mycelium Might, Motor Drive and Moxie. I'm sure some wall would love this combination of abilities.
N has No Guard, Natural Cure, and Neutralizing Gas. Might want to check how that gas works, and ight want to see who benefits from No Guard being in play. O has Opportunist and Orichalcum Pulse, which are both decent abilities but are probably the least broken thing so far. P meanwhile has Poison Heal, Parental Bond, Perish Body, Pixilate, Power Spot, Prankster, Pressure, Protosynthesis, Protean, Punk Rock, Psychic Surge, Punk Rock, Purifying Salt... and Primordial Sea. Another letter with way too many abilities under its belt. Q has Quark Drive, Queenly Majesty, Quick Draw and Quick Feet, which Quagsire, Qwilfish and Quaquavel could probably use well.
I was going to go on, but R, S, and T have so many abilities each that it is too easy to get lost. I think you would need to but huge restrictions on the abilities if this were to work, because some of these letters would have WAY too much going on to make gameplay fun. Every time you switch in a Sandy Shocks you have to wait three minutes for all the abilities to trigger. (Will mention that this also contains Snow Cloak + Slush Rush + Snow Warning, as well as Sand Stream + Sand Rush + Sand Force + Sand Veil. Don't mess with S).
I only indulged this because at first I thought this was the concept of the original post, but then I realized my mistake. If you give a Pokemon all of the abilities with their starting letter, that is too many abilities.
I mostly brought it up as a joke first. Like most other metas that offer a wide range of abilities, there's likely to be some 'bans' on allowed abilities, even if it is a little different here since it isnt as much up to player choice since some mons just have this stuff innately.
Said earlier that abilities would activate alphabetically, as iirc this is how they're ordered ingame and it just makes sense. In terms of terrain and weather, then, whichever comes last down those lists would be the one that effectively stays. ORAS weathers wouldnt care about positioning since they wouldn't allow another weather to take it over anyway.
I do think that this is a little complex, but I wouldn't put it too far past the likes of Chimera and to some degree the learning curve with stats that comes with M&M. The point in which turns will take awhile is valid, though. You do have access to skip turn animations on PS, though is that enough?
I think what'd benefit even the concept of a meta like this is a table to help simplify things and make it easier for a common person to read, which I might just do because in general this meta concept looos very silly. Chart time.
What I think would be funniest is the sheer amount of interactions that go on. Prankster Pokemon must be wary of P, Q, D, and A Pokemon for Psychic Surge, Queenly Majesty, Dazzling, and Armor Tail.
D, W, and S all have Water immunity, but there is M and T to balance that out a tad with them overriding all abilities. Speaking of M, they're all effectively fairies due to Mimicry + Misty Surge, which is pretty funny on its own.
I mostly brought it up as a joke first. Like most other metas that offer a wide range of abilities, there's likely to be some 'bans' on allowed abilities, even if it is a little different here since it isnt as much up to player choice since some mons just have this stuff innately.
Yeah no, don't do that. Actual bans are fine, but if you have to fix your OM by modding the central mechanic from "it does this thing" to "it does this thing except in these specific instances where it does something different" then something has gone horribly wrong.
There is a one week cooldown on posting ideas in the workshop. This is to prevent the rapid-fire spam of undeveloped ideas and instead encourage well-thought-out ideas which can be given the time and attention they need.
I have 3 variations of this first OM Stat Rotation 1.0:
Premise: The stats of the entire team are shifted by a number, which is inputted as the name of the first pokemon in the party. The number can range from 0-35
I’m okay with this one, but a little torn. Pokemon need their defining stats to create EV spreads and moves. Maybe you can get away with changing the raw, final stat rather than the base stat, but it still creates problems with moves. You can also build variations off of this with types, abilities and whatnot.
This was where everything started:
Move Rotation
Premise: Rotate the moves across the party by a certain amount given by the nickname of the first pokemon. The number is between 0-23.
You are less restricted by EVs and BSTs here. Building from one set you would like to achieve and start from there would be the way to go. You can also do something with rotating types and abilities, but I found that types will be extremely hard due to movesets and Abilites are just a restrictive version of AAA or Shared Power. Stat Rotation 1.0 is the BST version of this. This is my favorite as well.
I obviously can’t submit every one of these, so I’m probably going to call the one I choose to be Clockwork, Clockmons, or something else like that cause my inspiration came from an analog clock lol.
Questions for the Community:
Which one do you like the best and you think would be fun?
Can you come up with more ways you can implement the core idea of rotating/shifting a certain property of pokemon? Maybe you can combine this with an added team preview rearrange like Stat Swap 3.0.
I have 3 variations of this first OM Stat Rotation 1.0:
Premise: The stats of the entire team are shifted by a number, which is inputted as the name of the first pokemon in the party. The number can range from 0-35
I’m okay with this one, but a little torn. Pokemon need their defining stats to create EV spreads and moves. Maybe you can get away with changing the raw, final stat rather than the base stat, but it still creates problems with moves. You can also build variations off of this with types, abilities and whatnot.
This was where everything started:
Move Rotation
Premise: Rotate the moves across the party by a certain amount given by the nickname of the first pokemon. The number is between 0-23.
You are less restricted by EVs and BSTs here. Building from one set you would like to achieve and start from there would be the way to go. You can also do something with rotating types and abilities, but I found that types will be extremely hard due to movesets and Abilites are just a restrictive version of AAA or Shared Power. Stat Rotation 1.0 is the BST version of this. This is my favorite as well.
I obviously can’t submit every one of these, so I’m probably going to call the one I choose to be Clockwork, Clockmons, or something else like that cause my inspiration came from an analog clock lol.
Questions for the Community:
Which one do you like the best and you think would be fun?
Can you come up with more ways you can implement the core idea of rotating/shifting a certain property of pokemon? Maybe you can combine this with an added team preview rearrange like Stat Swap 3.0.
It would have been better if you posted one, whichever you like best, so we could discuss them individually and then see if it needs changes or something, like you didn't even explain how the rotation in the first one works. The second one is a more complex flipped. The third is the one I suggested to you, so yeah.
Try to wait some time before posting any idea you got, theorymon for it a bit and after a few days post it, these ideas are quite underdeveloped, they may be good, but I know you decided to post ALL of them right away, and because of that none of them got any real focus on your post, respect the one week cooldown in the future.
Like, why are you already jumping to a new concept when the one you posted in Sunday could still work?
original idea was by snaquaza, so creds should go to them, not me. in any case, the idea was not in fact submitted by me last gen, but rather in gen 7, where it was rejected for being similar to bh as well as the complexity of its mechanics. someone else submitted last gen to what i assume was roughly similar reasoning. if you want a petmod derived from the same concept, fusion evolution is your friend.
I had 2 ideas, they are somewhat similar? So I hope it's not breaking the rules to post both of them in here.
Disclosure: I don't feel fit to develop and flesh out an OM on my own, much less run it, so my idea of posting it was to get as much feedback as possible. I don't plan to submit either of my ideas as an OM any time soon before I get to put in more time and thought. Again, I hope that's ok.
For both of these OM ideas, there are 2 rules I made sure to follow that I think are key to their integrity:
The goal of the OM should be to win, not just to make the opponent lose. Strategies that force your opponents to use sub-optimal strategies (such as using only pokemon with self-destruct/explosion/memento, or level 1 pokemon with splash, etc) are not fun for everyone and are not the goal of these OM ideas.
Players should be able to use the pokemon they chose to put on the team, because players want to use pokemon that they like. In both of these OM ideas, although players are only using 3 of their own pokemon, the important thing is that those 3 are their pokemon. This allows players to maintain familiarity and confidence with their teams, as opposed to formats like Random Battles where players may not get to use their favorites.
Idea 1: "Mirror Match"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 of their 6 pokemon. Both players then play a 6 vs 6 single battle using identical teams consisting of both player's selections.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Meowscarada, Skeledirge, and Spidops. Player 2 selects Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Both players play a 6v6 single battle where both teams consist of Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Spidops, Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. Otherwise, since whatever pokemon you bring will also be used by your opponent, any powerful threats will be met with the same as opposition, so the playing field would be relatively even.
Questions for the community:
People like to play with pokemon that they like. In this OM, you still get to choose your team of 6 pokemon, but 3 of them will be replaced by the other player with pokemon of their choice. Does that idea make this format any less appealing?
Other OMs, like STABmons and AAA, allow you to use the surprise factor. In this OM, you would have full access to your opponent's team, since it's identical to your own, after team preview. Does that make it any more/less fun?
And then, Idea 2: "Nemesis Draft"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 pokemon from the opposing player's team. Players will play a 3 vs. 3 single battle using the pokemon selected by their opponent.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly. Player 2 selects Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Both players play a 3v3 single battle. Player 1's team is Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix. Player 2's team is Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly.
Note: During Team Preview, both players will have full access to the moves, stats (not EVs), items, and abilities of the pokemon they are selecting.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. In this OM, pokemon with particularly nasty reputations (ex. Gholdengo, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, etc) might get selected to be used less often, since players wouldn't want to play against them. In other words, some pokemon might be de-facto banned by nature of never being selected for use. A consideration should be made to ban based on player sentiment, rather than actual performance, in order to open up strategic options as well as feelings of agency for players.
Questions for the community:
This format might make defensive archetypes less viable. For example, a player could make a team of all physical wall breakers/sweepers and then force you to leave behind your physical walls for the battle. Would knowing that your team's strategy might completely fall apart make you less eager to play the format?
While other OMs like AAA and STABmons increase player agency by giving more options to the player, this OM would be taking agency away from the player by removing their options. Is choosing your opponent's team of 3, while losing the ability to choose your own 3, a worthwile-enough tradeoff?
I had 2 ideas, they are somewhat similar? So I hope it's not breaking the rules to post both of them in here.
Disclosure: I don't feel fit to develop and flesh out an OM on my own, much less run it, so my idea of posting it was to get as much feedback as possible. I don't plan to submit either of my ideas as an OM any time soon before I get to put in more time and thought. Again, I hope that's ok.
For both of these OM ideas, there are 2 rules I made sure to follow that I think are key to their integrity:
The goal of the OM should be to win, not just to make the opponent lose. Strategies that force your opponents to use sub-optimal strategies (such as using only pokemon with self-destruct/explosion/memento, or level 1 pokemon with splash, etc) are not fun for everyone and are not the goal of these OM ideas.
Players should be able to use the pokemon they chose to put on the team, because players want to use pokemon that they like. In both of these OM ideas, although players are only using 3 of their own pokemon, the important thing is that those 3 are their pokemon. This allows players to maintain familiarity and confidence with their teams, as opposed to formats like Random Battles where players may not get to use their favorites.
Idea 1: "Mirror Match"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 of their 6 pokemon. Both players then play a 6 vs 6 single battle using identical teams consisting of both player's selections.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Meowscarada, Skeledirge, and Spidops. Player 2 selects Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Both players play a 6v6 single battle where both teams consist of Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Spidops, Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. Otherwise, since whatever pokemon you bring will also be used by your opponent, any powerful threats will be met with the same as opposition, so the playing field would be relatively even.
Questions for the community:
People like to play with pokemon that they like. In this OM, you still get to choose your team of 6 pokemon, but 3 of them will be replaced by the other player with pokemon of their choice. Does that idea make this format any less appealing?
Other OMs, like STABmons and AAA, allow you to use the surprise factor. In this OM, you would have full access to your opponent's team, since it's identical to your own, after team preview. Does that make it any more/less fun?
And then, Idea 2: "Nemesis Draft"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 pokemon from the opposing player's team. Players will play a 3 vs. 3 single battle using the pokemon selected by their opponent.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly. Player 2 selects Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Both players play a 3v3 single battle. Player 1's team is Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix. Player 2's team is Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly.
Note: During Team Preview, both players will have full access to the moves, stats (not EVs), items, and abilities of the pokemon they are selecting.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. In this OM, pokemon with particularly nasty reputations (ex. Gholdengo, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, etc) might get selected to be used less often, since players wouldn't want to play against them. In other words, some pokemon might be de-facto banned by nature of never being selected for use. A consideration should be made to ban based on player sentiment, rather than actual performance, in order to open up strategic options as well as feelings of agency for players.
Questions for the community:
This format might make defensive archetypes less viable. For example, a player could make a team of all physical wall breakers/sweepers and then force you to leave behind your physical walls for the battle. Would knowing that your team's strategy might completely fall apart make you less eager to play the format?
While other OMs like AAA and STABmons increase player agency by giving more options to the player, this OM would be taking agency away from the player by removing their options. Is choosing your opponent's team of 3, while losing the ability to choose your own 3, a worthwile-enough tradeoff?
I prefer when people post a single idea at a time, but I guess both are very simple, so...
Mirror Match sounds fine, I can imagine the gimmick being fun and work for some small tours, but also being a bit repetitive to ladder as you will be most likely fighting the same mons over and over again, now that may not be true as you will be using sightly different teams every time. I guess it comes down to what the others think.
Nemesis Draft is... not that interesting, you seem to think people would most likely just try to not use good mons because, their opponent wouldn't choose them for you? I see your logic, but nothing stops you from running 6 strong Pokémon, so you get something good and your opponent may not always be able to unselect the same mons as they have to choose what their team is most likely to beat. The real problem is that this just end being BSS with some weird mind games on team preview.
I think both have a problem of potentially not being too different from standard tiers, those would be fun rules to add in omm or any random tour, but as formats of their own they just don't feel unique enough to success.
I had 2 ideas, they are somewhat similar? So I hope it's not breaking the rules to post both of them in here.
Disclosure: I don't feel fit to develop and flesh out an OM on my own, much less run it, so my idea of posting it was to get as much feedback as possible. I don't plan to submit either of my ideas as an OM any time soon before I get to put in more time and thought. Again, I hope that's ok.
For both of these OM ideas, there are 2 rules I made sure to follow that I think are key to their integrity:
The goal of the OM should be to win, not just to make the opponent lose. Strategies that force your opponents to use sub-optimal strategies (such as using only pokemon with self-destruct/explosion/memento, or level 1 pokemon with splash, etc) are not fun for everyone and are not the goal of these OM ideas.
Players should be able to use the pokemon they chose to put on the team, because players want to use pokemon that they like. In both of these OM ideas, although players are only using 3 of their own pokemon, the important thing is that those 3 are their pokemon. This allows players to maintain familiarity and confidence with their teams, as opposed to formats like Random Battles where players may not get to use their favorites.
Idea 1: "Mirror Match"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 of their 6 pokemon. Both players then play a 6 vs 6 single battle using identical teams consisting of both player's selections.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Meowscarada, Skeledirge, and Spidops. Player 2 selects Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Both players play a 6v6 single battle where both teams consist of Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Spidops, Pawmot, Clodsire, and Garganacl.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. Otherwise, since whatever pokemon you bring will also be used by your opponent, any powerful threats will be met with the same as opposition, so the playing field would be relatively even.
Questions for the community:
People like to play with pokemon that they like. In this OM, you still get to choose your team of 6 pokemon, but 3 of them will be replaced by the other player with pokemon of their choice. Does that idea make this format any less appealing?
Other OMs, like STABmons and AAA, allow you to use the surprise factor. In this OM, you would have full access to your opponent's team, since it's identical to your own, after team preview. Does that make it any more/less fun?
And then, Idea 2: "Nemesis Draft"
Metagame premise: An OU-based metagame. You build a team of 6 pokemon. At team preview, each player selects 3 pokemon from the opposing player's team. Players will play a 3 vs. 3 single battle using the pokemon selected by their opponent.
Example:
Player 1 brings Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Quaquaval, Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Player 2 brings Pawmot, Clodsire, Maushold, Dachsbun, Arboliva, Squawkabilly, and Garganacl.
During Team Preview, Player 1 selects Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly. Player 2 selects Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix.
Both players play a 3v3 single battle. Player 1's team is Oinkologne, Spidops, and Lokix. Player 2's team is Dachsbun, Arboliva, and Squawkabilly.
Note: During Team Preview, both players will have full access to the moves, stats (not EVs), items, and abilities of the pokemon they are selecting.
Potential bans and threats: OU-based, so Ubers banned. In this OM, pokemon with particularly nasty reputations (ex. Gholdengo, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, etc) might get selected to be used less often, since players wouldn't want to play against them. In other words, some pokemon might be de-facto banned by nature of never being selected for use. A consideration should be made to ban based on player sentiment, rather than actual performance, in order to open up strategic options as well as feelings of agency for players.
Questions for the community:
This format might make defensive archetypes less viable. For example, a player could make a team of all physical wall breakers/sweepers and then force you to leave behind your physical walls for the battle. Would knowing that your team's strategy might completely fall apart make you less eager to play the format?
While other OMs like AAA and STABmons increase player agency by giving more options to the player, this OM would be taking agency away from the player by removing their options. Is choosing your opponent's team of 3, while losing the ability to choose your own 3, a worthwile-enough tradeoff?
Mirror Match is so cute. Concerns:
- Who do you lead? If it is one of your Pokemon, strategically I'd assume you make your team like 6 leads, and choose the one that can best deal with the other 11 potential Pokemon in the game. Presumably you choose your 3 mons, then out of the 6 total you select your lead. Just want to make sure, though.
- What do you do about people bringing Pokemon with no offensive strategy at all, such as a Charcadet with only Protect? If 2 players were to bring 3 useless mons, the match is decided by whoever gives up first. While people probably wouldn't oft do this, the potential for trolling is there still.
If both of these are addressed I think this could make for a fun format but it really depends on what your opponent brings. You couldbring your favourite 3 guys, but your opponent brings Corviknight, Amoonguss, Garganacl, Clodsire, Quagsire and Toxapex and suddenly you've got a 120+ turn game on your hands that you can't really avoid. Tbh, this seems like the winning strategy for this format- bring the most hard stall of hard stall that you possibly can and get your opponent to forfeit if they aren't as patient as you.
Nemesis Draft concerns:
If I'm understanding correctly, what stops me from bringing 6 bad mons? Seems like the winning strat there to me.
Mirror Match is so cute. Concerns:
- Who do you lead? If it is one of your Pokemon, strategically I'd assume you make your team like 6 leads, and choose the one that can best deal with the other 11 potential Pokemon in the game. Presumably you choose your 3 mons, then out of the 6 total you select your lead. Just want to make sure, though.
- What do you do about people bringing Pokemon with no offensive strategy at all, such as a Charcadet with only Protect? If 2 players were to bring 3 useless mons, the match is decided by whoever gives up first. While people probably wouldn't oft do this, the potential for trolling is there still.
If both of these are addressed I think this could make for a fun format but it really depends on what your opponent brings. You couldbring your favourite 3 guys, but your opponent brings Corviknight, Amoonguss, Garganacl, Clodsire, Quagsire and Toxapex and suddenly you've got a 120+ turn game on your hands that you can't really avoid. Tbh, this seems like the winning strategy for this format- bring the most hard stall of hard stall that you possibly can and get your opponent to forfeit if they aren't as patient as you.
Nemesis Draft concerns:
If I'm understanding correctly, what stops me from bringing 6 bad mons? Seems like the winning strat there to me.
For Mirror Match: I hadn't considered choosing a lead. Ideally you'd want to choose your lead after seeing which 6 you get, but logistically it would make team preview take longer than usual. More likely it would have you lead with the first pokemon that you chose from your team. That could cause lead pokemon to be more impactful in the format, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing? Dedicated leads were a thing in gen 4 and prior, and although some in particular were strong, I don't think they ruined the fun of the format.
As for your second point about Mirror Match, I had considered it. I had initially resigned to thinking it would be viable. After all, both players would be forced to use any dead pokemon, which wouldn't be desirable by either player, or so I thought. But I realize I forgot that some people find entertainment in ruining the fun of other people (aka trolls), and so that may be likely to happen.
I don't think it's inherently bad for a format to frequently have long games in a "real" setting, ie. using non-troll strategies, and those strategies might be a problem, but they are somewhat mitigated if either player brings a non-troll team, at least.
Stall can exist in any format, and stall vs. stall matchups aren't unheard of, but it's true that it might happen more frequently in Mirror Match where both players are playing stall if either one chooses to bring it. Honestly I'm not sure if there's a solution to that.
Lastly about your Nemesis Draft concern: You don't use your opponent's pokemon, you still get to use your own. Another way to think of it is that each player gets to remove 3 pokemon from their opponent's team of 6, and then they battle using their remaining 3. So if one player brings 6 bad pokemon and the other player brings a real team, the second player with the real team would win.
If two players independently decide to load up a team of useless Pokemon just to be a dick, and then happen to be paired up with each other, then they deserve to rot in Charcadet Hell together.
If they get paired up with a player who's actually trying, there are still going to be at least three actual Pokemon in that game, so it's not like the match is worthless.
It would have been better if you posted one, whichever you like best, so we could discuss them individually and then see if it needs changes or something, like you didn't even explain how the rotation in the first one works. The second one is a more complex flipped. The third is the one I suggested to you, so yeah.
Try to wait some time before posting any idea you got, theorymon for it a bit and after a few days post it, these ideas are quite underdeveloped, they may be good, but I know you decided to post ALL of them right away, and because of that none of them got any real focus on your post, respect the one week cooldown in the future.
Like, why are you already jumping to a new concept when the one you posted in Sunday could still work?
Reposting this with one, finalized idea for convenience.
Clockmons
Premise: Pokemon’s stats will be rotated and wraped around by a number depending on it’s slot in the party. The first party member will not be affected, the second one will be rotates by 1, the third will be rotated by 2, etc.
Examples/Viable Threats
(Slot 6) With 131/131/53/53/87/115, Great tusk becomes very fast with the same attacking strength. It gains even more bulk making it tough to get rid of as well.
(Slot 2) Haha 100 attack with Huge Power go brr. It’s basically 984 effective attack stat with positive nature full investment and choice band. Not to mention it can run Sitrus Berry Belly Drum as well. Probably ban worthy.
(Slot 4) Live Wo-Chien reaction:
Anyway, with 95/135/70/85/85/100, this thing all of the sudden turns into an offensive monster, with not a bad offensive typing to go with it.
(Slot 3) Maybe this meta seems too offensive. Not to worry, you can change offensive pokemon into defensive ones with ease. With 100/80/91/134/95/100, it can be decently bulky with Multiscale and Roost. It is in a weird position of being a Special Attacker, but it still gets decent special moves.
Huge shoutout goes to Pipotchi who originally came up with this all the way back in Gen 7. Here is the link to their post.
Just found it via a quick google search to see if anyone has done this before.
Questions for the Community:
Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?
Will the meta become too offensive to handle? Can defensive builds keep it in check?
Reposting this with one, finalized idea for convenience.
Clockmons
Premise: Pokemon’s stats will be rotated and wraped around by a number depending on it’s slot in the party. The first party member will not be affected, the second one will be rotates by 1, the third will be rotated by 2, etc.
Examples/Viable Threats
(Slot 6) With 131/131/53/53/87/115, Great tusk becomes very fast with the same attacking strength. It gains even more bulk making it tough to get rid of as well.
(Slot 2) Haha 100 attack with Huge Power go brr. It’s basically 984 effective attack stat with positive nature full investment and choice band. Not to mention it can run Sitrus Berry Belly Drum as well. Probably ban worthy.
(Slot 4) Live Wo-Chien reaction:
Anyway, with 95/135/70/85/85/100, this thing all of the sudden turns into an offensive monster, with not a bad offensive typing to go with it.
(Slot 3) Maybe this meta seems too offensive. Not to worry, you can change offensive pokemon into defensive ones with ease. With 100/80/91/134/95/100, it can be decently bulky with Multiscale and Roost. It is in a weird position of being a Special Attacker, but it still gets decent special moves.
Huge shoutout goes to Pipotchi who originally came up with this all the way back in Gen 7. Here is the link to their post.
Just found it via a quick google search to see if anyone has done this before.
Questions for the Community:
Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?
Will the meta become too offensive to handle? Can defensive builds keep it in check?
Well, it looks much better now, and you removed some of the unnecessary stuff from the gen7 idea, anyway, I think it would make much more sense if slot 6 was the one that remains unchanged as I don't see why stats shouldn't rotate by the corresponding number of the slot.
This being quite customizable should make it distinct enough from Flipped, but I expect a lot of the stuff that is problematic there to be still be problematic here, like Blissey getting that 255 Speed. You still would have to prove that this different enough from Nature Swap or the better alternative, but it does sound fun.
Metagame premise: Alongside your pokemon’s own moves, you can use all 4 of your opponent’s moves.
This happens in battle. If the opponent switches out into another pokemon as you use one of their moves, you’ll use the move of the previous opponent mon, not the new one that switches in. (basically it depends on the pokemon at the start of the turn)
with Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword
vs with Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower
turns into with Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword AND Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower
vs with Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower AND Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword
With this mechanic you can see what set your opponent is running, which takes out much of the surprise factor of many strategies. But there are still two unpredictable factors - Tera Blast and Items. These are what you use to break past teams.
Increased Viability:
Fast Attackers - They can use the opponent’s move first. Many of them can drop coverage for boosting move because of how much coverage they get in battle.
Prediction - It’s much easier to predict because you know all of your opponent’s moves. A Kingambit may be scared of switching into a Dragapult’s possible Flamethrower, but because you’ve already seen its moves you can switch gambit in safely and go for the KO.
Tera Blast - In the above example, it may be common to start seeing Dragapult running Tera Fire tera blast to lure in Kingambit and KO it. Flamethrower is stronger, but it cant lure in Kingambit like that. It is your one and only shot at getting rid of a deadly mon on the opposing team. This hidden surprise is what you use to gain the upper hand.
Decreased Viability:
Hazards, Screens, Trick Room, Veil, Revival Blessing, etc. - They’re still good, its just that your opponent can benefit by stacking them up too by using your moves.
Setup Sweepers - Unless you’re up against defensive pokemon, most pokemon will just boost using your moves alongside you.
Stall - Because all the offensive threats can now use the opponent’s recovery alongside their strong moves, stall games will take much longer. Stall pokemon cannot benefit from offensive moves, but offensive pokemon can benefit from status moves.
Wide Movepools - Their surprise factor is removed because you can see all their moves. And also, many pokemon benefit from getting coverage.
etc. - These pokemon have moves like salt cure, shadow ball that can be used by the opponent to kill them.
Potential bans and threats: Imprison Questions for the community:
Is it exciting or wild enough? I feel like it doesn’t have much flair to it, which is why i was thinking about an idea where you could use ALL 24 of the opponent’s team’s moves, alongside your own. Now, there more involvement in teambuilding, making sure you dont carry any moves that could break your defensive walls, while you still have to get enough power to break past the opponent’s team. Would this be more fun?
How should PP be handled? Would using an opponent’s move take away 1 pp of the move on both sides (opponent and user?) Should pp loss of a copied move be permanent in battle (and could it be coded like so?)
I have 3 variations of this first OM Stat Rotation 1.0:
Premise: The stats of the entire team are shifted by a number, which is inputted as the name of the first pokemon in the party. The number can range from 0-35
I’m okay with this one, but a little torn. Pokemon need their defining stats to create EV spreads and moves. Maybe you can get away with changing the raw, final stat rather than the base stat, but it still creates problems with moves. You can also build variations off of this with types, abilities and whatnot.
This was where everything started:
Move Rotation
Premise: Rotate the moves across the party by a certain amount given by the nickname of the first pokemon. The number is between 0-23.
You are less restricted by EVs and BSTs here. Building from one set you would like to achieve and start from there would be the way to go. You can also do something with rotating types and abilities, but I found that types will be extremely hard due to movesets and Abilites are just a restrictive version of AAA or Shared Power. Stat Rotation 1.0 is the BST version of this. This is my favorite as well.
I obviously can’t submit every one of these, so I’m probably going to call the one I choose to be Clockwork, Clockmons, or something else like that cause my inspiration came from an analog clock lol.
Questions for the Community:
Which one do you like the best and you think would be fun?
Can you come up with more ways you can implement the core idea of rotating/shifting a certain property of pokemon? Maybe you can combine this with an added team preview rearrange like Stat Swap 3.0.
This really comes down to how you want to begin your team off. Like for example Belly Drum Kingambit, and start working out the shifting from there. You can give another move to Azumarill, and carry the chain through. Maybe you want to use Prankster Revival Blessing, so you shift accordingly so that, for example Pawmot gives the move to Grimmsnarl. It really depends on where you want to go with your team, and how you round it off at the end.
Questions for the Community:
Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?
Should the shift be limited by a number, 0-3, to make it more simple?
Should 0 even be available because using 0 will not change the team at all, going against the premise?
This really comes down to how you want to begin your team off. Like for example Belly Drum Kingambit, and start working out the shifting from there. You can give another move to Azumarill, and carry the chain through. Maybe you want to use Prankster Revival Blessing, so you shift accordingly so that, for example Pawmot gives the move to Grimmsnarl. It really depends on where you want to go with your team, and how you round it off at the end.
Questions for the Community:
Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?
Should the shift be limited by a number, 0-3, to make it more simple?
Should 0 even be available because using 0 will not change the team at all, going against the premise?
Metagame premise: Alongside your pokemon’s own moves, you can use all 4 of your opponent’s moves.
This happens in battle. If the opponent switches out into another pokemon as you use one of their moves, you’ll use the move of the previous opponent mon, not the new one that switches in. (basically it depends on the pokemon at the start of the turn)
with Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword
vs with Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower
turns into with Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword AND Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower
vs with Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Superpower AND Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword
With this mechanic you can see what set your opponent is running, which takes out much of the surprise factor of many strategies. But there are still two unpredictable factors - Tera Blast and Items. These are what you use to break past teams.
Increased Viability:
Fast Attackers - They can use the opponent’s move first. Many of them can drop coverage for boosting move because of how much coverage they get in battle.
Prediction - It’s much easier to predict because you know all of your opponent’s moves. A Kingambit may be scared of switching into a Dragapult’s possible Flamethrower, but because you’ve already seen its moves you can switch gambit in safely and go for the KO.
Tera Blast - In the above example, it may be common to start seeing Dragapult running Tera Fire tera blast to lure in Kingambit and KO it. Flamethrower is stronger, but it cant lure in Kingambit like that. It is your one and only shot at getting rid of a deadly mon on the opposing team. This hidden surprise is what you use to gain the upper hand.
Decreased Viability:
Hazards, Screens, Trick Room, Veil, Revival Blessing, etc. - They’re still good, its just that your opponent can benefit by stacking them up too by using your moves.
Setup Sweepers - Unless you’re up against defensive pokemon, most pokemon will just boost using your moves alongside you.
Stall - Because all the offensive threats can now use the opponent’s recovery alongside their strong moves, stall games will take much longer. Stall pokemon cannot benefit from offensive moves, but offensive pokemon can benefit from status moves.
Wide Movepools - Their surprise factor is removed because you can see all their moves. And also, many pokemon benefit from getting coverage.
etc. - These pokemon have moves like salt cure, shadow ball that can be used by the opponent to kill them.
Potential bans and threats: Imprison Questions for the community:
Is it exciting or wild enough? I feel like it doesn’t have much flair to it, which is why i was thinking about an idea where you could use ALL 24 of the opponent’s team’s moves, alongside your own. Now, there more involvement in teambuilding, making sure you dont carry any moves that could break your defensive walls, while you still have to get enough power to break past the opponent’s team. Would this be more fun?
How should PP be handled? Would using an opponent’s move take away 1 pp of the move on both sides (opponent and user?) Should pp loss of a copied move be permanent in battle (and could it be coded like so?)
I think sharing PP counts would be a good way to go, to prevent fat mirrors from taking forever.
Not really sure how much I like this idea, wouldn't oppose to it and could be fun, but seems too hard to balance, some may feel forced to only use moves that wouldn't be effective on their own mons.
Reposting this with one, finalized idea for convenience.
Clockmons
Premise: Pokemon’s stats will be rotated and wraped around by a number depending on it’s slot in the party. The first party member will not be affected, the second one will be rotates by 1, the third will be rotated by 2, etc.
Examples/Viable Threats
(Slot 6) With 131/131/53/53/87/115, Great tusk becomes very fast with the same attacking strength. It gains even more bulk making it tough to get rid of as well.
(Slot 2) Haha 100 attack with Huge Power go brr. It’s basically 984 effective attack stat with positive nature full investment and choice band. Not to mention it can run Sitrus Berry Belly Drum as well. Probably ban worthy.
(Slot 4) Live Wo-Chien reaction:
Anyway, with 95/135/70/85/85/100, this thing all of the sudden turns into an offensive monster, with not a bad offensive typing to go with it.
(Slot 3) Maybe this meta seems too offensive. Not to worry, you can change offensive pokemon into defensive ones with ease. With 100/80/91/134/95/100, it can be decently bulky with Multiscale and Roost. It is in a weird position of being a Special Attacker, but it still gets decent special moves.
Huge shoutout goes to Pipotchi who originally came up with this all the way back in Gen 7. Here is the link to their post.
Just found it via a quick google search to see if anyone has done this before.
Questions for the Community:
Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?
Will the meta become too offensive to handle? Can defensive builds keep it in check?
This seems really cool! palafin looks pretty potent in this meta but maybe it's not banworthy. I feel like the meta probably wouldn't be too offensive, considering there are probably about the same number of mons that have good offensive stats as defensive ones.
Monothreat
Metagame premise: It’s a monotype based OM, but you can only fight your own type!
Potential bans and threats: I don’t think any mon will be that unbalanced... The preparation will be extreme I think but it may not be a bad thing
Questions for the community: How should this work not on ladder?
Monothreat
Metagame premise: It’s a monotype based OM, but you can only fight your own type!
Potential bans and threats: I don’t think any mon will be that unbalanced... The preparation will be extreme I think but it may not be a bad thing
Questions for the community: How should this work not on ladder?
For the record, Monothreat is a pretty established Monotype OM (I think it's the most established one), so it's most likely going to be brought back whenever the Monotype OM project is started.
How it's done is a type is pre-determined before battles start, and then it's a gentleman's agreement to use that type (or that type is forced in a roomtour setting).
Premise: each mon on your team has a specific role in the "crew" based on its team slot
Slot 1: Luffy/Captain slot. this mon's Ability becomes Long Reach, also if this mon faints, you automatically lose the battle Slot 2: Zolo/Swordsman slot. This mon's Ability becomes Sharpness, and it gains access to every move boosted by said ability Slot 3: Nami/Navigator slot. This mon's Ability becomes Infiltrator, and it removes all Hazards from the field upon entering battle while also taking no damage from them Slot 4: Usopp/Shooter slot. This mon's Ability becomes Mega Launcher, and it gains access to every move boosted by said Ability Slot 5: Sanji/Cook slot. This mon's Ability becomes Well-Baked Body, and it has access to every fire-type move Slot 6: Chopper/Doctor slot. This mon's Ability becomes Triage, and it's Healing moves can be used on any mon in your party while it is in battle, but no other mon on your team can run any Healing moves.
Potential Threats/Bans
Each slot would likely need its own bans/restrictions, as some mons may be better suited for a specific role/slot
Questions for the Community
What mons do you think would be best suited to each Pirate Crew role?
Is the auto-loss from the Captain fainting a bit too much?
Charizard is able to get things like Cud Chew and Compound Eyes
Gengar would be able to not only get abilities like Good as Gold but also Hadron Engine because of Haunter
.
(Slot 6) With 131/131/53/53/87/115, Great tusk becomes very fast with the same attacking strength. It gains even more bulk making it tough to get rid of as well.
(Slot 2) Haha 100 attack with Huge Power go brr. It’s basically 984 effective attack stat with positive nature full investment and choice band. Not to mention it can run Sitrus Berry Belly Drum as well. Probably ban worthy.
(Slot 4) Live Wo-Chien reaction:
(Slot 3) Maybe this meta seems too offensive. Not to worry, you can change offensive pokemon into defensive ones with ease. With 100/80/91/134/95/100, it can be decently bulky with Multiscale and Roost. It is in a weird position of being a Special Attacker, but it still gets decent special moves.
with Icicle Crash/Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Sacred Sword
etc. - These pokemon have moves like salt cure, shadow ball that can be used by the opponent to kill them.
