Medicham

[Josh Morales]

Bulk up is in OO. I have other things to do, so I'll explain better later, or maybe someone else can explain.

 

[Matthew8864]

I understand. It's just I have been experimenting with the set I mentioned before and it worked very well with Screen Support from Carbink for example.

 

[TheTraininator]

Just wondering how come Psycho Cut gets no mentions anywhere. Though it has 10 less BP than Zen Headbutt, it is 100% accurate, which I feel means that unless the power difference proves notable, it should probably carry it instead.

 

[Fuzznip]

Zen Headbutt's increased power and 20% flinch chance outweighs Psycho Cut's perfect accuracy. Zen Headbutt is pretty accurate itself, anyway.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Zen Headbutt's increased power and 20% flinch chance outweighs Psycho Cut's perfect accuracy. Zen Headbutt is pretty accurate itself, anyway.

One thing to keep in mind with regards to Psycho Cut is that it doesn't make contact, which means that Medicham's Attack does not harshly drop if it hits King's Shield. To a lesser extent, it also means that your opponent can't wear Medicham down with Rocky Helmet and/or Rough Skin/Iron Barbs as easily.

 

[Legitimate Username]

Josh Morales, I found a few extra errors in this analysis.
Additions
Removals
(Comments)

Changes

Overview
########
Say hello to Medicham, a Pokemon that has suffered in the lower tiers of competitive battling in the past but has received new hope for its existence in OU due to its Mega Evolution. It has a fantastic ability, Pure Power, which doubles its Attack stat, boosting Mega Medicham's Attack stat it to an equivalent of base 249 with a positive nature and maximum Attack investment. Additionally, Mega Medicham is the fastest user of Pure / Huge Power and Medicham also has a good movepool that allows it to annihilate any type of foe. Unfortunately, it does suffer from four-moveslot syndrome, and its moves are generally of a mediocre Base Power, aside from High Jump Kick, which has its own downfall in unreliability. Still, Medicham is a powerful physical attacker worthy of a spot on any offensive team.

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
move 4: Substitute / Bullet Punch
ability: Pure Power
item: Medichamite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========
Mega Medicham boasts one of the highest Attack stats in the game and a fantastic base 100 Speed to back it up, which Azumarill, Kyurem-B, and Mega Mawile don't lack. This set is built to simply use all that power to its fullest potential. High Jump Kick is used because it's simply (you already used "simply" in the last sentence) Medicham's strongest physical STAB move. While it is powerful, don't be reckless with it, as a Ghost-type switch-in or a miss can be costly. Fire Punch is used to annihilate the common Aegislash, which that otherwise gives Medicham problems, as well as to incinerate Scizor and Genesect. If hitting Gliscor, both Landorus formes, Landorus-T, and Dragonite (as well as reliably hitting Garchomp more reliably) is a concern for your team, Ice Punch is the best way to deal with them. Zen Headbutt is a great secondary STAB move for Medicham and it also allows Medicham to hit Jellicent and physically defensive Mega Venusaur, which normally take very little from Medicham's attacks. It also lets Medicham beat defensive Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon and deal good damage to Azumarill. For the last slot, Substitute can be very useful to ease prediction as well as keeping Medicham from being statused crippled by status. Bullet Punch is also a good option to allow Medicham to function as a revenge killer and hit faster threats before they can hit it.

Set Details
========
Medichamite is essential for the all-around massive stat boosts all around achieved by the Mega Evolution. A Jolly nature gives Medicham the maximum Speed possible to help ensure you'll outspeed certain Pokemon, although an Adamant nature can provide more power, enabling Mega Medicham to reach the impressive base 249 Attack (it's still the same as a neutral-natured 249). Overall, a Jolly nature provides more consistency at the cost of greater wallbreaking power. (This sentence is entirely pointless)

Usage Tips
========
Mega Medicham is basically a nuke, but it has trouble switching into battle, so your team should have ways to bring it in safely, such as U-turn or Volt Switch users. Successfully setting up a Substitute is instrumental to doing heavy damage with Mega Medicham since you don't have to predict as much; Medicham can attack much more freely when it doesn't fear a potential OHKO in return. Setting up a Substitute on the prediction of a Ghost-type switch-in or faster fighting resist is key. Mega Medicham can deal the maximum amount of devastation to enemy teams if you're setting up a Substitute when you predict the enemy to switch out into another Pokemon or hitting a predicted switch in for the most possible damage.

Team Options
========
Good teammates for Mega Medicham are Pokemon with access to U-turn or Volt Switch because it doesn't like hard switching into attacks due to its frailty. Among Pokemon found on VoltTurning teams, Scizor is a great partner because Mega Medicham takes care of many checks to Scizor. Rotom-W is a great Volt Switch user that is capable of stomaching attacks from common priority users that want to pick off Mega Medicham and retaliate by crippling it with a burn. Mid- to late-game sweepers such as Lucario or Terrakion are great teammates for Mega Medicham because they can sweep with ease after Mega Medicham has already broken down all the enemy opponent's walls.

Other Options
########
Thunder Punch can be used to hit Pokemon such as Slowbro, Azumarill, and Gyarados, but using this move sacrifices a ton of more useful type coverage or the ever-useful Substitute. If you really want to use Mega Medicham as a sweeper, interchange the third or fourth moveslot for Bulk Up. The Defense boost from Bulk Up is a waste, but achieving over 900 Attack is something that even some of the best physical sweepers that have access to with Swords Dance can only dream to have. Your opponent will also usually expect Mega Medicham to be a wallbreaker instead of a sweeper.

Checks & Counters
########
**Slowbro**: Slowbro completely stops Medicham, taking next to nothing from all of Medicham's attacks and using Regenerator to recovery heal off the damage it takes. Medicham can run Thunder Punch, but that is rarely more appropriate to use over any other of Medicham's moves. However, while Thunder Punch is rare, it will let Medicham easily defeat Slowbro. (Remember, this section is written for the player thhat is going up against Medicham.)

**Aegislash**: Aegislash can also come in on every any move besides except for Fire Punch and either threaten to either KO Medicham or use King's Shield to lower its Attack attack in the event tat it attacks.

**Chandelure**: Choice Scarf Chandelure resists all of Medicham's moves except for Zen Headbutt and can OHKO it with Shadow Ball.

**Common Priority Users**: Talonflame can revenge kill Medicham with a priority Brave Bird, but it doesn't like switching into High Jump Kick. Likewise, Choice Band Scizor and other common priority users can pick off a slightly weakened Mega Medicham

**Strong Choice Scarf Users**: Strong Choice Scarf users that are not OHKOed by Bullet Punch can revenge kill Medicham.

Copypaste

Overview
########
Say hello to Medicham, a Pokemon that has suffered in the lower tiers of competitive battling in the past but has received new hope for its existence in OU due to its Mega Evolution. It has a fantastic ability, Pure Power, which doubles its Attack stat, boosting it to an equivalent of base 249 with a positive nature and maximum Attack investment. Additionally, Mega Medicham is the fastest user of Pure / Huge Power and Medicham also has a good movepool that allows it to annihilate any type of foe. Unfortunately, it does suffer from four-moveslot syndrome, and its moves are generally of a mediocre base power, aside from High Jump Kick, which has its own downfall in unreliability. Still, Medicham is a powerful physical attacker worthy of a spot on any offensive team.

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
move 4: Substitute / Bullet Punch
ability: Pure Power
item: Medichamite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========
Mega Medicham boasts one of the highest Attack stats in the game and a fantastic base 100 Speed to back it up, which Azumarill, Kyurem-B, and Mega Mawile lack. This set is built to simply use all that power to its fullest potential. High Jump Kick is used because it's Medicham's strongest physical STAB move. While it is powerful, don't be reckless with it, as a Ghost-type switch-in or a miss can be costly. Fire Punch is used to annihilate Aegislash, which otherwise gives Medicham problems, as well as to incinerate Scizor and Genesect. If hitting Gliscor, both Landorus formes, and Dragonite (as well as hitting Garchomp more reliably) is a concern for your team, Ice Punch is the best way to deal with them. Zen Headbutt is a great secondary STAB move for Medicham and it also allows Medicham to hit Jellicent and physically defensive Mega Venusaur, which normally take very little from Medicham's attacks. It also lets Medicham beat defensive Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon and deal good damage to Azumarill. For the last slot, Substitute can be very useful to ease prediction as well as keeping Medicham from being crippled by status. Bullet Punch is also a good option to allow Medicham to function as a revenge killer and hit faster threats before they can hit it.

Set Details
========
Medichamite is essential for the massive stat boosts all around achieved by the Mega Evolution. A Jolly nature gives Medicham the maximum Speed possible to help ensure you'll outspeed certain Pokemon, although an Adamant nature can provide more power.

Usage Tips
========
Mega Medicham is basically a nuke, but it has trouble switching into battle, so your team should have ways to bring it in safely, such as U-turn or Volt Switch users. Successfully setting up a Substitute is instrumental to doing heavy damage with Mega Medicham since you don't have to predict as much; Medicham can attack much more freely when it doesn't fear a potential OHKO in return. Setting up a Substitute on the prediction of a Ghost-type switch-in or faster fighting resist is key. Mega Medicham can deal the maximum amount of devastation to enemy teams if you're setting up a Substitute when you predict the enemy to switch out into another Pokemon or hitting a predicted switch in for the most possible damage.

Team Options
========
Good teammates for Mega Medicham are Pokemon with access to U-turn or Volt Switch because it doesn't like hard switching into attacks due to its frailty. Among Pokemon found on VoltTurning teams, Scizor is a great partner because Mega Medicham takes care of many checks to Scizor. Rotom-W is a great Volt Switch user that is capable of stomaching attacks from common priority users that want to pick off Mega Medicham and retaliate by crippling it with a burn. Mid- to late-game sweepers such as Lucario or Terrakion are great teammates for Mega Medicham because they can sweep with ease after Mega Medicham has already broken down the opponent's walls.

Other Options
########
Thunder Punch can be used to hit Slowbro, Azumarill, and Gyarados, but using this move sacrifices more useful type coverage or the ever-useful Substitute. If you really want to use Mega Medicham as a sweeper, interchange the third or fourth moveslot for Bulk Up. The Defense boost from Bulk Up is a waste, but achieving over 900 Attack is something that even some of the best physical sweepers with Swords Dance can only dream to have. Your opponent will also usually expect Mega Medicham to be a wallbreaker instead of a sweeper.

Checks & Counters
########
**Slowbro**: Slowbro completely stops Medicham, taking next to nothing from all of Medicham's attacks and using Regenerator to heal off the damage it takes. However, while Thunder Punch is rare, it will let Medicham easily defeat Slowbro.

**Aegislash**: Aegislash can also come in on any move except for Fire Punch and either threaten to KO Medicham or use King's Shield to lower its Attack.

**Chandelure**: Choice Scarf Chandelure resists all of Medicham's moves except for Zen Headbutt and can OHKO it with Shadow Ball.

**Common Priority Users**: Talonflame can revenge kill Medicham with a priority Brave Bird, but it doesn't like switching into High Jump Kick. Likewise, Choice Band Scizor and other common priority users can pick off a slightly weakened Medicham

**Strong Choice Scarf Users**: Strong Choice Scarf users that are not OHKOed by Bullet Punch can revenge kill Medicham.

GP approved 3/2
EDIT: Kingler12345, sweet catch again!

 

[Kingler]

Legitimate Username it is Base Power ;_;
also it's 4/2 :o

 

[Unowninator]

What about a Choice Scarf + Trick set if you're using another mega evolution? Not only is it faster, but it can really tamper with some the 1st two checks you mentioned: Aegislash & Slowbro.


Medicham can also learn Baton Pass.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

So this has been 'Done' for a while but is there any reason why Medicham should use Bullet Punch? Nonstabbed it's very weak even coming off of Medicham's ridiculous attack stat, out of the things that outspeed Medicham (outside of Scarfers, Boosters and Priority users) the only thing I can come up with that it actually deals significant damage to is Terrakion and possibly the Latis after hitting them with HJK on the switch in, there's literally no reason to use Bullet Punch if you're not fighting something that's faster or something that's slower but has Priority.

I can see why Substitute is used but I feel like Zen Headbutt should be slashed with this as Medicham needs the secondary stab to deal with Fairies such as Clefable and Sylveon (both 2HKO'd after rocks by Zen Headbutt) and Mega Venusaur (small chance of OHKOing it after rocks) to all of which no other move deals a significant amount of damage.

Ice Punch and Fire Punch are needed to get around Lando-T (Gliscor ) and Aegislash although I feel Baton Pass could be used over Fire Punch if Medicham is paired with Bisharp to Pursuit trap Aegislash.

I've used Medicham a lot on PS and WiFi and in my personal experience dual stabs + Fire and Ice Punch are all vital skills.

 

[dcae]

there's a genesect mention in the description abt fire punch that should be removed.

 

[Josh Morales]

there's a genesect mention in the description abt fire punch that should be removed.

Ahh, yeah.

 

[Josh Morales]

I'm also starting to question whether or not Fire Punch is more valuable than Thunder Punch with Genesect gone because Scizor really isn't all that common and anything that gets hit only 2x super effectively by Fire Punch gets hit harder by a 1x effective HJK. Aegislash is still incredibly common of course, but is dealing with Aegislash alone, which can be taken care of by team mates, enough to pass up BoltBeam coverage?

I'm also questioning on keeping Talonflame in checks and counters because it can easily revenge kill practically anything that doesn't resist it's STABs.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I'm also starting to question whether or not Fire Punch is more valuable than Thunder Punch with Genesect gone because Scizor really isn't all that common and anything that gets hit only 2x super effectively by Fire Punch gets hit harder by a 1x effective HJK. Aegislash is still incredibly common of course, but is dealing with Aegislash alone, which can be taken care of by team mates, enough to pass up BoltBeam coverage?

I'm also questioning on keeping Talonflame in checks and counters because it can easily revenge kill practically anything that doesn't resist it's STABs.

Dont see how Genesect being banned is relevant to the viability of Fire Punch on Medicham as Genesect would outspeed it anyway and HJK easily OHKOs Genesect.

 

[Sturdynips]

I'm also starting to question whether or not Fire Punch is more valuable than Thunder Punch with Genesect gone because Scizor really isn't all that common and anything that gets hit only 2x super effectively by Fire Punch gets hit harder by a 1x effective HJK. Aegislash is still incredibly common of course, but is dealing with Aegislash alone, which can be taken care of by team mates, enough to pass up BoltBeam coverage?

I'm also questioning on keeping Talonflame in checks and counters because it can easily revenge kill practically anything that doesn't resist it's STABs.

Talonflame definitely belongs in C&C. It is an amazing revenge killer for a reason, as you say, and it is mentioned in many analyses of Pokemon that take neutral damage from Brave Bird. Medicham being weak to Flying makes Talonflame a mandatory mention. In fact, under the Priority Users section you should probably add Mega Pinsir.

Following on with the C&C section, the Choice Scarf mention really should be expanded on. You should at least mention some common scarfers or bulkier ones like Garchomp. Also, I think that segment should probably be changed to "faster pokemon" and include things that don't mind Bullet Punch such as Keldeo, Thundurus, and Mega Manectric. Keld and Thund in particular are really common, and Mega Manectric is increasing in popularity

I'm not QC and I realise this analysis is done but I feel these are valid and decently-important changes to be made

 

[jevon]

I'm not very good at saying pros and cons, and checks and counters or things like that. But in my opinion this set is very good!

medicham@medichamite
pure power/ME pure power
jolly
252 speed 252 atk 4 hp
drain punch
psycho cut
fake out
bullet punch

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I'm not very good at saying pros and cons, and checks and counters or things like that. But in my opinion this set is very good!

medicham@medichamite
pure power/ME pure power
jolly
252 speed 252 atk 4 hp
drain punch
psycho cut
fake out
bullet punch

Your opinion is wrong, there's so much wrong with that set it's not even worth getting into really.

Drain Punch isn't a good move on Medicham as it lacks the bulk to make good use of it (BU could theoretically use it but it gets revengekilled easily and completely walled by Aegislash).

Without Ice Punch Landorus-T walls the hell out of you.

Bullet Punch and Fake Out are both suboptimal choices imo as you lose valuable coverage, running both on the same set is completely out of the question as it leaves you walled by many things which is unacceptable for a wallbreaker.

Psycho Cut isn't terrible but generally Zen Headbutt is the better option as it hits harder and has the nice flinch chance, 90% accuracy is still pretty good so that's not much of an issue.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Hey Josh Morales, the QC team looked over this on IRC again and we decided that the main set's slashes should be changed around after all.

After discussing for a bit we felt that Fire Punch was far from mandatory while Zen Headbutt, at least in the current metagame, is way too useful to drop. In addition to destroying Mega Venusaur and Azumarill, you also have a chance to 2HKO physically defensive Clefable which is incredibly important for a physical wallbreaker or sweeper. Furthermore, STAB Zen Headbutt is just a really powerful move to throw around, especially since Dark and Steel types aren't exactly likely to switch into you. We also feel that Bullet Punch is not a very strong option while Fake Out does have its uses (Faking Out the turn you Mega Evolve to gain the speed boost, repeated chip damage + guaranteed flinch vs a huge threat, etc) so you should put it in over the former. So the final set would look something like this:

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt
move 3: Fire Punch / Ice Punch
move 4: Substitute / Fake Out
ability: Pure Power
item: Medichamite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Make sure to mention a set with maximum coverage (High Jump Kick / Zen Headbutt / Fire Punch/ Ice Punch) in the set comments and move Bullet Punch there if you'd like while outlining why it's not that good (weak without STAB and Steel not being the best offensive typing).

 

[Josh Morales]

Hey Josh Morales, the QC team looked over this on IRC again and we decided that the main set's slashes should be changed around after all.

After discussing for a bit we felt that Fire Punch was far from mandatory while Zen Headbutt, at least in the current metagame, is way too useful to drop. In addition to destroying Mega Venusaur and Azumarill, you also have a chance to 2HKO physically defensive Clefable which is incredibly important for a physical wallbreaker or sweeper. Furthermore, STAB Zen Headbutt is just a really powerful move to throw around, especially since Dark and Steel types aren't exactly likely to switch into you. We also feel that Bullet Punch is not a very strong option while Fake Out does have its uses (Faking Out the turn you Mega Evolve to gain the speed boost, repeated chip damage + guaranteed flinch vs a huge threat, etc) so you should put it in over the former. So the final set would look something like this:

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt
move 3: Fire Punch / Ice Punch
move 4: Substitute / Fake Out
ability: Pure Power
item: Medichamite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Make sure to mention a set with maximum coverage (High Jump Kick / Zen Headbutt / Fire Punch/ Ice Punch) in the set comments and move Bullet Punch there if you'd like while outlining why it's not that good (weak without STAB and Steel not being the best offensive typing).

Thanks!

 

[Arkian]

Hi hello Josh Morales, I know I'm late, but, I'd like to nitpick on a few things coz bored >.>

Overview

• I really think that its poor bulk and susceptibility to almost all form of priority need to be stated as flaws
• I wouldn't say that the power of its moves is mediocre, since even Zen Headbutt boasts a respectable 80 Base Power. What I would say, though, is that its coverage moves are lacking in power
• Medicham competes with other extremely powerful physical Megas like Mawile and Pinsir, since they both fulfill a similar role to Medicham

Set

I don't see any merit of having Adamant as opposed to Jolly. There are no relevant KOes that Adamant gets that Jolly doesn't, while Jolly has a lot of utility in letting Mega Medicham Speed tie with Pokemon like the Charizards and Manaphy and outspeed and beat things like Jolly Excadrill. Unless I'm missing something important, Jolly seems to be a much better nature on Mega Medicham than Adamant is.

Moves

• I would recommend mentioning the possibility of running Drain Punch as a Fighting STAB as it is much more reliable than High Jump Kick while offering a lot of utility when used alongside Substitute
• I think it's worth mentioning that Substitute lets Medicham beat the likes of Bisharp and avoid being revenge killed by Talonflame

Set Details

If you want, you can also use a set with High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt, Fire Punch, and Ice Punch for maximum coverage.

This seems more appropriate in the moves section imo.

Usage Tips

Setting up a Substitute on the prediction of a Ghost-type switch-in or faster fighting Fighting resist is key.

GP 5/2

Also mention how Mega Medicham pairs really well against stall, especially the Substitute variant.

Team Options

• Mention partners that can beat the Pokemon that Medicham's coverage fails against; if it uses Ice Punch, then maybe mention something like Bisharp to beat Aegislash (Bisharp overall has great synergy with Medicham anyway), and if it uses Fire Punch, mention things that beat Lando-T and Gliscor like Rotom-W

Hope I helped :o

 

[Aragorn the King]

just wondering is zen headbutt all around better then psycho cut?

Bringing this back up. Why is Psycho Cut never mentioned? Yes, it's weaker than Zen Headbutt, but, it doesn't make contact and has better accuracy, and therefore I think it deserves a mention somewhere. I personally prefer it to Zen Headbutt, but that's just me. I think it belongs in OO, but a QC should confirm/reject this.

 

[Swamp Link]

Psycho Cut can be mentioned in OO, sure, but it's worse than Zen Headbutt in general. The accuracy doesn't make up for the fact that it's weaker, and Zen Headbutt is stronger on average. The fact that it doesn't make contact is a small concern, really, since their usually isn't a problem with contact, the only thing I can think of is Chesnaught's Spiky Shield. It can be mentioned in OO, but Zen Headbutt is pretty much just better.

 

[Ash Borer]

Psycho Cut can be useful hitting weakened blade AEgislash, as it makes no contact and thus in even of King's shield you can just fire punch next turn without issue.

Again though ZHB's flinch and ability to 2hko clefable is too much to give up.

 

[PurpleCordial]

This was mentioned on page one by PK and I don't know if it was skipped over accidentally cos it was small or it was implemented and then removed via irc chat or pm but Sableye should really be mentioned in C+C. It's immune to both stabs and can castrate it with WoW while being able to tank a coverage move.
Also I really think it could be combined into bulky ghosts w/ Aegislash

 

[Reflect Suicune]

I use Medicham a lot, and I must say, I like Ice Punch slightly over Thunderpunch, and Thunderpunch wayyyyyyyyyyy over Fire Punch. There's lots of things weak to fire and electric, but the only time you need the punch is if the Pokemon is 4x weak to said type. Otherwise, your two STABs are more than viable alternatives. For example, on Jellicent (random example, sorry), thunderpunch does 150, but Zen Headbutt does 120. Is it really worth giving up an additional moveslot to do 30 more BP? I think not. imo if you only have a choice of one punch, you should be using the one that gives you the best return on damage. That means 4x weaknesses. Here's a list:


- Things 4x weak to fire and not weak to a STAB: Scizor
- Things 4x weak to electric and not weak to a STAB: Gyarados (only regular Gyara too, not Mega)
- Things 4x weak to ice and not weak to a STAB: Gliscor, Landorus.

I'm probably forgetting Pokemon in all 3 categories but you should see my point. In addition, the ice category is the only one where the given Pokemon resist both STABs. HJK and Zen still do adequately against Scizor and Gyara, respectively.

Substitute is interesting, I haven't tried that. It also protects Cham from random status effects from the Gliscor that will probably stay in on it, or the ghost that will be coming in, hoping to trigger the HJK miss. I only skimmed the OP but I didn't see this mentioned, as another reason in favor of using Sub.

Anyway, if you're using Sub, I feel like Drain Punch is at least worth considering, if only with Substitute. That way you can at least recoup the HP you lost on the Substitute, enabling you to come in and out and repeat the cycle repeatedly.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I use Medicham a lot, and I must say, I like Ice Punch slightly over Thunderpunch, and Thunderpunch wayyyyyyyyyyy over Fire Punch. There's lots of things weak to fire and electric, but the only time you need the punch is if the Pokemon is 4x weak to said type. Otherwise, your two STABs are more than viable alternatives. For example, on Jellicent (random example, sorry), thunderpunch does 150, but Zen Headbutt does 120. Is it really worth giving up an additional moveslot to do 30 more BP? I think not. imo if you only have a choice of one punch, you should be using the one that gives you the best return on damage. That means 4x weaknesses. Here's a list:


- Things 4x weak to fire and not weak to a STAB: Scizor
- Things 4x weak to electric and not weak to a STAB: Gyarados (only regular Gyara too, not Mega)
- Things 4x weak to ice and not weak to a STAB: Gliscor, Landorus.
I'm probably forgetting Pokemon in all 3 categories but you should see my point. In addition, the ice category is the only one where the given Pokemon resist both STABs. HJK and Zen still do adequately against Scizor and Gyara, respectively.

Substitute is interesting, I haven't tried that. It also protects Cham from random status effects from the Gliscor that will probably stay in on it, or the ghost that will be coming in, hoping to trigger the HJK miss. I only skimmed the OP but I didn't see this mentioned, as another reason in favor of using Sub.

Anyway, if you're using Sub, I feel like Drain Punch is at least worth considering, if only with Substitute. That way you can at least recoup the HP you lost on the Substitute, enabling you to come in and out and repeat the cycle repeatedly.

Just my thoughts.

Don't forget Aegislash. It takes 0 BP from Drain Punch, 0 BP and causes 50% recoil from High Jump Kick, 60 BP from Zen Headbutt, 32.5 BP from Ice Punch, 75 BP from Thunder Punch, and 150 BP from Fire Punch. Yes, Shadow Sneak and King's Shield suck, but being walled by the most common OU pokemon when you don't have to be is silly, imo.