(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Castersvarog]

Here's a direct copy-paste of Gym Leader Misty's team data in Pokémon FireRed that I found on Bulbapedia. And here's a direct copy-paste of Gym Leader Misty's team in Pokémon LeafGreen that I also found on Bulbapedia.

Leader Misty Cerulean Gym FireRed and LeafGreen Reward: 2100

https://www.smogon.com/forums/javascript:void(0);

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Type: Water Ability: Natural Cure Held item: None Staryu Lv.18 Tackle Normal Harden Normal Recover Normal Water Pulse Water

Types: Water Psychic Ability: Natural Cure Held item: None Starmie Lv.21 Rapid Spin Normal Swift Normal Recover Normal Water Pulse Water

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Notice how there's only one team composition here. Yes, that's to be expected that NPC Trainers all have their teams made well in advance. So, what's the problem here? The problem, as I see it, is that several of them will use version-exclusive Pokémon on their teams even if you can't find this Pokémon in the wild in the version you're playing. From a gameplay perspective, I would imagine this was most often done for the sake of allowing players to have these Pokémon registered as "Seen" in the PokéDex regardless of if they can actually be obtained. Somewhat similarly, we have Pokémon such as Cynthia's Spiritomb in the Sinnoh games, who I'd be willing to bet was the only reason most players could eventually get that PokéDex sighting logged if they didn't have access to people to play in the Underground with. From a world-building perspective, however, this is where things start to fall apart. We know because of several datamines as well as the GameCube Pokémon games that NPC Trainers also have their own OT designations, meaning that we can naturally assume the Pokémon used by NPC Trainers were not specifically traded to them unless otherwise specified.

So with that in mind, using RBY/FRLG Misty as an example again, in the versions where Staryu and Starmie can't be obtained... where the heck did she get these Pokémon from? They couldn't have been found in the wild, as we've established, but they also couldn't have been traded to her since they're still internally recognized in the games as Misty's own Pokémon. I'm not asking for these games to be as realistic as possible, but from an in-universe perspective, there should be absolutely no reason Trainers do this so often. What's even more stupid to me is that the vast majority of the examples I could think of off of memory have other Pokémon that they could be replaced with for those versions. The most recent example I can think of where a game did this right was with Milo's rematch team in Sword & Shield, where two of his team members are actually different in each version which includes his G-Max Flapple/Appletun respectively.

(Disclaimer: If you try and cheat and catch an NPC's Pokémon during a battle, more often than not the game will try and treat it like a wild Pokémon encounter as a sort of failsafe. I know this because I've tried it before with Action Replay codes as a kid.)

(The first tab has the team data, and the second tab has the rest of the actual post. Also yes, that link does say Smogon and not Bulbapedia for some reason, I don't know why it did that.)

Personally, my watsonian answer is that a lot of the version exclusive Mons are often migrating out of and into populated routes and areas. We just so happen to find the ones who have migrated themselves in, hence why they’re still a part of the regional dex, they still live in the region, we just missed them.

 

[Coronis]

Don't you talk shit about my gorgeous onion boy

Can never think of Celebi as anything but female, even if non-shiny #pmd2

 

[Zowayix]

In Legends Arceus, for the 2 most annoying Pokemon to find in the first area (Munchlax and Cherubi), the location in the Pokedex is straight-up false.

Cherubi's location is supposed to be the Heartwood, but every single tree and spawn point in the Heartwood has a 0% chance to encounter Cherubi. Instead, you must travel slightly outside of the Heartwood (until the game no longer displays your location as "Heartwood" but instead the generic "Obsidian Fieldlands") to find the two magically unlabeled trees with a 100% chance of encountering either Cherubi or Cherrim.

I believe no Trainers in the game use Cherubi either (please let me know if I'm wrong), so there's no way for a player without a guide to know where else to look except the Heartwood.

Similarly, Munchlax's location is supposed to be Deertrack Heights, but every spawn point in Deertrack Heights has a 0% chance to encounter Munchlax. Instead, you have to magically guess that one patch of grass in Deertrack Path has a less than 10% chance to spawn Munchlax, and a second patch of grass even farther away from the Heights (again with a generic "Obsidian Fieldlands" location) also has a less than 10% chance to spawn Munchlax.

Finally, you know how the game keeps track of areas you've discovered? A place you've never been to will show up as "??????" in the Habitat page of the Pokedex, and it will be greyed out on the map.

...But it turns out these two things aren't in sync. For example, Icepeak Arena and Snowfall Hot Spring are part of the same map segment of Alabaster Icelands, so visiting Icepeak Arena also makes Snowfall Hot Spring show up as no-longer-greyed-out on the map. But the player still hasn't actually visited Snowfall Hot Spring yet, so any Pokemon located there still display "??????". The end result is that you see a Pokemon whose only location in the Alabaster Icelands is "??????", but nothing on the map is greyed out so you have no idea where you haven't visited yet. This Pokemon is, you guessed it, Munchlax.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

This is very minor but it still irks me. In the classroom area of the Aspertia Gym in B2W2, there's an NPC who mentions that the only accessible Pokemon with an advantage against Normal-types are the Riolu found in Floccesy Ranch. Seems like a neat little hint for a kid who's struggling against Cheren (and at the very least it tells you about a 5% encounter that you might otherwise miss completely), but it doesn't work at all as advice for the first Gym.

Riolu realistically won't learn a Fighting-type attack before facing Cheren, especially if you go to catch one after talking to this NPC, since it needs to get to Level 15 to learn Force Palm (Cheren's ace is Level 13 in Normal Mode). Weirdly, Gen 4 and BW had it learn Force Palm at the much more reasonable Level 11, but they switched it with Feint in B2W2. Gen 5 overall is extremely rough for early-game grinding, between the dearth of trainers before each game's first Gym and the diminishing returns of the scaled exp system, compounded by wild Pokemon encounters that never exceed Level 7 (remember also that Audino encounters are locked behind getting your first badge).

To be clear, I'm aware that Riolu is still a competent choice to take on Cheren, mostly because Counter can be quite effective against him if timed right, but that's not a type advantage thing, nor is it a strategy that a struggling child can necessarily pull off.

What I find especially funny about this NPC is how much of a 180 it is from BW. The rest of their dialogue is something to the effect of "...if you go in with a Grass-, Fire-, or Water-type Pokemon, it'll be a simple test of strength!" which is fine on its own, but it clashes with BW's type advantage railroading and creates some unfortunate implications for anyone who loses to Cheren, without offering a feasible strategic solution.

 

[SwampySwampert]

This is very minor but it still irks me. In the classroom area of the Aspertia Gym in B2W2, there's an NPC who mentions that the only accessible Pokemon with an advantage against Normal-types are the Riolu found in Floccesy Ranch. Seems like a neat little hint for a kid who's struggling against Cheren (and at the very least it tells you about a 5% encounter that you might otherwise miss completely), but it doesn't work at all as advice for the first Gym.

Riolu realistically won't learn a Fighting-type attack before facing Cheren, especially if you go to catch one after talking to this NPC, since it needs to get to Level 15 to learn Force Palm (Cheren's ace is Level 13 in Normal Mode). Weirdly, Gen 4 and BW had it learn Force Palm at the much more reasonable Level 11, but they switched it with Feint in B2W2. Gen 5 overall is extremely rough for early-game grinding, between the dearth of trainers before each game's first Gym and the diminishing returns of the scaled exp system, compounded by wild Pokemon encounters that never exceed Level 7 (remember also that Audino encounters are locked behind getting your first badge).

To be clear, I'm aware that Riolu is still a competent choice to take on Cheren, mostly because Counter can be quite effective against him if timed right, but that's not a type advantage thing, nor is it a strategy that a struggling child can necessarily pull off.

What I find especially funny about this NPC is how much of a 180 it is from BW. The rest of their dialogue is something to the effect of "...if you go in with a Grass-, Fire-, or Water-type Pokemon, it'll be a simple test of strength!" which is fine on its own, but it clashes with BW's type advantage railroading and creates some unfortunate implications for anyone who loses to Cheren, without offering a feasible strategic solution.

Probably about 50% of the times I’ve tried Nuzlocking B2W2 have died to Cheren alone.

 

[Fracterra]

In Legends Arceus, for the 2 most annoying Pokemon to find in the first area (Munchlax and Cherubi), the location in the Pokedex is straight-up false.

Cherubi's location is supposed to be the Heartwood, but every single tree and spawn point in the Heartwood has a 0% chance to encounter Cherubi. Instead, you must travel slightly outside of the Heartwood (until the game no longer displays your location as "Heartwood" but instead the generic "Obsidian Fieldlands") to find the two magically unlabeled trees with a 100% chance of encountering either Cherubi or Cherrim.

I believe no Trainers in the game use Cherubi either (please let me know if I'm wrong), so there's no way for a player without a guide to know where else to look except the Heartwood.

Similarly, Munchlax's location is supposed to be Deertrack Heights, but every spawn point in Deertrack Heights has a 0% chance to encounter Munchlax. Instead, you have to magically guess that one patch of grass in Deertrack Path has a less than 10% chance to spawn Munchlax, and a second patch of grass even farther away from the Heights (again with a generic "Obsidian Fieldlands" location) also has a less than 10% chance to spawn Munchlax.

Finally, you know how the game keeps track of areas you've discovered? A place you've never been to will show up as "??????" in the Habitat page of the Pokedex, and it will be greyed out on the map.

...But it turns out these two things aren't in sync. For example, Icepeak Arena and Snowfall Hot Spring are part of the same map segment of Alabaster Icelands, so visiting Icepeak Arena also makes Snowfall Hot Spring show up as no-longer-greyed-out on the map. But the player still hasn't actually visited Snowfall Hot Spring yet, so any Pokemon located there still display "??????". The end result is that you see a Pokemon whose only location in the Alabaster Icelands is "??????", but nothing on the map is greyed out so you have no idea where you haven't visited yet. This Pokemon is, you guessed it, Munchlax.

This is my counter argument for anyone who says PLA is perfect, remember that an already hard to find pokemon was unobtainable due to a bug. At least SVs bugs didn’t make a pokemon unobtainable.

This is very minor but it still irks me. In the classroom area of the Aspertia Gym in B2W2, there's an NPC who mentions that the only accessible Pokemon with an advantage against Normal-types are the Riolu found in Floccesy Ranch. Seems like a neat little hint for a kid who's struggling against Cheren (and at the very least it tells you about a 5% encounter that you might otherwise miss completely), but it doesn't work at all as advice for the first Gym.

Riolu realistically won't learn a Fighting-type attack before facing Cheren, especially if you go to catch one after talking to this NPC, since it needs to get to Level 15 to learn Force Palm (Cheren's ace is Level 13 in Normal Mode). Weirdly, Gen 4 and BW had it learn Force Palm at the much more reasonable Level 11, but they switched it with Feint in B2W2. Gen 5 overall is extremely rough for early-game grinding, between the dearth of trainers before each game's first Gym and the diminishing returns of the scaled exp system, compounded by wild Pokemon encounters that never exceed Level 7 (remember also that Audino encounters are locked behind getting your first badge).

To be clear, I'm aware that Riolu is still a competent choice to take on Cheren, mostly because Counter can be quite effective against him if timed right, but that's not a type advantage thing, nor is it a strategy that a struggling child can necessarily pull off.

What I find especially funny about this NPC is how much of a 180 it is from BW. The rest of their dialogue is something to the effect of "...if you go in with a Grass-, Fire-, or Water-type Pokemon, it'll be a simple test of strength!" which is fine on its own, but it clashes with BW's type advantage railroading and creates some unfortunate implications for anyone who loses to Cheren, without offering a feasible strategic solution.

Yeah, SV has (imo) the best level up movepools in the series, with moves that make sense at the given levels.

 

[R_N]

This is my counter argument for anyone who says PLA is perfect, remember that an already hard to find pokemon was unobtainable due to a bug. At least SVs bugs didn’t make a pokemon unobtainable.

I don't see many people say LA is perfect (in fact, much the opposite in my experience...) but this isn't a bug that makes Pokemon unobtainable, it's an oversight that mislabeled the Dex's encounter listing.

Yeah, SV has (imo) the best level up movepools in the series, with moves that make sense at the given levels.

Granted, a lot of the SV movepools are still effectively the same as they were in SWSH

 

[Fracterra]

I don't see many people say LA is perfect (in fact, much the opposite in my experience...) but this isn't a bug that makes Pokemon unobtainable, it's an oversight that mislabeled the Dex's encounter listing.

Granted, a lot of the SV movepools are still effectively the same as they were in SWSH

I did not know that, and I’m talking about the new mons, should of specified. TM learnsets made more sense in SV (cough cough Zamazenta got Body Press) and Hariyama got Drain Punch, and Infernape got Aura Sphere, and Breloom got Close Combat, and so did Toxicroak, Fighting Types just got better in SV. And Groudon got Spikes, and even more, and that isn’t counting (ignore Infernape) the DLC Additions. Empoleon Roost and Torterra Shell Smash.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

remember that an already hard to find pokemon was unobtainable due to a bug

Who? I complètes my pokedex

 

[CPU]

Yeah, SV has (imo) the best level up movepools in the series, with moves that make sense at the given levels.

I'm going to nitpick this specific example with the knowledge that the Mankey line gets Cross Chop at level 22. Pretty crazy time to learn a STAB move that is a Fighting-type Stone Edge.

(Technically speaking, Stone Edge is a Rock-type Cross Chop, since Cross Chop came first.)

 

[R_N]

I'm going to nitpick this specific example with the knowledge that the Mankey line gets Cross Chop at level 22. Pretty crazy time to learn a STAB move that is a Fighting-type Stone Edge.

(Technically speaking, Stone Edge is a Rock-type Cross Chop, since Cross Chop came first.)

Which is a great example of mostly unchanged movesets

behold Mankey's progression from SM (left) to BDSP (middle) to SV (right)!

1​	Covet​	1​	Covet​	1​	Covet​
1​	Scratch​	1​	Scratch​	1​	Scratch​
1​	Low Kick​	1​	Low Kick​	​	​
1​	Leer​	1​	Leer​	1​	Leer​
1​	Focus Energy​	1​	Focus Energy​	1​	Focus Energy​
5​	Fury Swipes​	5​	Fury Swipes​	5​	Fury Swipes​
8​	Karate Chop​	8​	Mud-Slap​	8​	Low Kick​
12​	Pursuit​	12​	Seismic Toss​	12​	Seismic Toss​
15​	Seismic Toss​	15​	Retaliate​	​	​
19​	Swagger​	19​	Swagger​	17​	Swagger​
22​	Cross Chop​	22​	Cross Chop​	22​	Cross Chop​
26​	Assurance​	26​	Assurance​	26​	Assurance​
29​	Punishment​	29​	Skull Bash​	​	​
33​	Thrash​	33​	Thrash​	29​	Thrash​
36​	Close Combat​	36​	Close Combat​	33​	Close Combat​
40​	Screech​	40​	Screech​	36​	Screech​
43​	Stomping Tantrum​	43​	Stomping Tantrum​	40​	Stomping Tantrum​
47​	Outrage​	47​	Outrage​	44​	Outrage​
50​	Final Gambit​	50​	Final Gambit​	48​	Final Gambit​

Punishment became Skull Bash because it doesn't exist in Gen 8, and Skull Bash got replaced with .... nothing ...because it doesn't exist in gen 9
Pursuit got removed so they moved Seismic Toss up and replaced with Retaliate. Which then got removed completely because.....it's a TM again? Even thhoug hit has other moves that are also TMs....SWSH did this too it's weird.
Karate Chop became Mud Slap because it doesn't exist in Gen 8. I presume they moved Low Kick from Level 1 move to Level 8 move because it fit better as a replacement.
They then slightly tweaked a handful of levels. I think Swagger became 17 because the new gap was a bit much I guess?
Post-Assurance they shifted Thrash-Stomping Tantrum "up" a slot to the previous levels, then just put a little extra on the final 2

I'm not complaining they keep movesets mostly the same (this is what most movesets in the series do, often just tweaking levels to be less extreme), with some slight tweaks, just Mankey's a good example of it.

 

[Worldie]

I'm not complaining they keep movesets mostly the same (this is what most movesets in the series do, often just tweaking levels to be less extreme), with some slight tweaks, just Mankey's a good example of it.

Question which I can't check right now: did Rage Fist on Primeape end up taking the place of one of the "empty slots"?

 

[R_N]

Question which I can't check right now: did Rage Fist on Primeape end up taking the place of one of the "empty slots"?

I thought something similar but it's between Thrash & Close Combat

(Incidentally, Annihilape learns everything the same level as Primeape does. The other "evolve by move" Pokemon do the same thing.)

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Question which I can't check right now: did Rage Fist on Primeape end up taking the place of one of the "empty slots"?

I thought something similar but it's between Thrash & Close Combat

(Incidentally, Annihilape learns everything the same level as Primeape does. The other "evolve by move" Pokemon do the same thing.)

Just checked: yes.

Essentially in Primeape's set it's switched as Thrash is now in the slot at Level 30 where it used to learn Punishment/Skull Bash in SM/BDSP, whereas it used to learn Thrash at Level 35 in SM/BDSP. Rage Fist now fills that slot instead for Primeape.

So in other words, Thrash was moved down from "Level 35" in Primeape's SM/BDSP/SV learnset to "Level 30" where Punishment/Skull Bash was and Rage Fist was put there in its place.

 

[R_N]

Just checked: yes.

Essentially in Primeape's set it's switched as Thrash is now in the slot at Level 30 where it used to learn Punishment/Skull Bash in SM/BDSP, whereas it used to learn Thrash at Level 35 in SM/BDSP. Rage Fist now fills that slot instead for Primeape.

So in other words, Thrash was moved down from "Level 35" in Primeape's SM/BDSP/SV learnset to "Level 30" where Punishment/Skull Bash was and Rage Fist was put there in its place.

Which lines up with where Thrash is in the Mankey kit

What Worldie & I are looking at would be more "Rage Punch is now between Assurance and Thrash"

 

[Zowayix]

Who? I complètes my pokedex

Early versions of Legends Arceus had a bug where alternate forms of certain Pokemon had catch rates of 0. This meant wild Cherrim were impossible to catch as long as the overworld weather was sunny.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Why the crap are so many of Gen IX's shinies practically indistinguishable from the regular forms? I'm missing a bunch of shinies from Paldea and it makes searching for them on Home's GTS borderline impossible.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

Today I learned Synchronoise hits all adjacent Pokémon, including the ally. That means if you have two Pokémon sharing a type and one of these know Synchronoise, you can end up dealing damage to your ally only.
And no, there is no equivalent of Water Absorb or Flash Fire for Psychic-type moves.
Turns out being able to target multiple targets can make a move a little worse.

 

[woodgoldtwo]

Why the crap are so many of Gen XI's shinies practically indistinguishable from the regular forms? I'm missing a bunch of shinies from Galar and it makes searching for them on Home's GTS borderline impossible.

Gen 11?

 

[R_N]

Why the crap are so many of Gen XI's shinies practically indistinguishable from the regular forms? I'm missing a bunch of shinies from Galar and it makes searching for them on Home's GTS borderline impossible.

After a certain point, designers started picking out their own shinies

if I had to guess a bunch of them think they don't want the design altered that much




To which I say: bring back the algorithmic green shinies baby come back im sorry im different now

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Gen 11?

Oh ffs it's obvious what I meant

 

[Worldie]

Oh ffs it's obvious what I meant

And here I thought you were about to leak some of the designs coming in 2 gens :(

 

[AztecCroc]

Why the crap are so many of Gen IX's shinies practically indistinguishable from the regular forms? I'm missing a bunch of shinies from Galar and it makes searching for them on Home's GTS borderline impossible.

To be fair, excluding the Gimmighoul line who aren't actually available outside that one raid event, the only one where the indistinguishability isn't due to the the texture overlay is the Maushold line. (And Ogerpon and the non-Okidogi members of the Loyal 3, but those are shiny locked and so are irrelevant.)

 

[pika pal]

Why the crap are so many of Gen IX's shinies practically indistinguishable from the regular forms? I'm missing a bunch of shinies from Galar and it makes searching for them on Home's GTS borderline impossible.

Sorry to be the proofreader again, but do you mean Gen 9 (Paldea) shinies, Galar (Gen 8) shinies, or Galar Shinies which you want to hunt in Paldea but can't due to this distinguishing problem?

 

[R_N]

I think it's kind of irrelevant which specific generation he's referring to and had the typo on, Gens 6-9 all have, to varying degrees and more noticeable in Gen 9, a lot of overly subtle or otherwise barely different shinies.

Which reminds me that we're getting a new Shiny reprint set in the TCG and boy howdy. Was this the generation, to not do that.

And it's kind of noticeable if you have them side by side and you probably know that "purple" wasnt the color used, but man....at a glance you'd probably be forgiven for thinking thats just regular sprigatito.

The EX cards get it really bad because the already overly subtle color changes are now even harder to make out because of all the other card effects