(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[R_N]

the thing is, while i get these points, their typings particularly would fit better reversed (water as the flow of time, steel as space and stars - meteor mash is a steel move!), and even their designs superficially feel switched to me (dialga looks... spaceship-y?, palkia's shoulder things look like clocks) even if there's obviously more thought in what you two said than in my perception.

So, quick check here: you know by Palkia representing "Space" they don't specifically mean outer space but more Space as a concept? Like the spaces things occupy. It's why it's the counterpart to the "Time" pokemon, since it makes up 'spacetime continuum', why if it gets to show things off in other media its usually warping you to different places or changing the orientation of things, and why in LA, Irida focuses on the expanse of the world


(but even with a space interpretation I think Palkia kinda sorta resembles spaceships a little more; mostly the lighter coloring and the sleeker design. also kind of vaguely reminds me a diving suit, I think its the pauldrons)

 

[woodgoldtwo]

The Poliwrath line learning no good physical stab moves by level up (no physical water moves at all and only dynamic punch and circle throw for fighting stab)

They don’t actually learn any consistant or reliable physical moves outside of Body Slam and Double-Edge by level up

 

[Ironmage]

the thing is, while i get these points, their typings particularly would fit better reversed (water as the flow of time, steel as space and stars - meteor mash is a steel move!)

It's worth noting that 'space' in the sense of 'extraterrestrial' has been mostly associated with Psychic (e.g. Cosmog, beheeyem, Cosmic Power, Solrock/Lunatone) and it just happens that the Steel/Psychic Metagross was anatomically unable to use the stronger Steel moves that existed at the time (Steel Wing and Iron tail) while Psychic (the move) was more generic.

 

[Axiemeister]

So, quick check here: you know by Palkia representing "Space" they don't specifically mean outer space but more Space as a concept? Like the spaces things occupy. It's why it's the counterpart to the "Time" pokemon, since it makes up 'spacetime continuum', why if it gets to show things off in other media its usually warping you to different places or changing the orientation of things, and why in LA, Irida focuses on the expanse of the world


(but even with a space interpretation I think Palkia kinda sorta resembles spaceships a little more; mostly the lighter coloring and the sleeker design. also kind of vaguely reminds me a diving suit, I think its the pauldrons)

i know space doesn't Need to be specifically outer space, but... it is a natural association for people to make and certainly what teenager me did when DP came out i think it would be easier to shake that off if the concept of Physical Space was a more obvious association to palkia and its typing than water (even if dialga stayed the same maybe?)

 

[Imperial Magala]

Steel=Solid
Water=Liquid
Ghost=Gas

Also diamonds are know for their hardness while pearls form within clams, an aquatic creature.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I don't know how you look at Xy's encounter tables as "a slog" and then turn around and go "SOS encounters were great"

Absolutely nothing is more of a slog than getting something to low HP and then just twiddling your thumbs, waiting for it to make a call (because even at low HP & with the Adreneline orb it isn't guaranteed nor is it always a successful call), then killing the called pokemon until the proper one is called. I'll take a brisk run around some grass over that any day, legitimately.

Meanwhile with the XY routes may as well mention that some routes differed their encounter rates based on patches of flowers, horde encounter exclusives, several routes & caves had 5-styled "phenomenon" (Rustling grass, trash cans, swooping encounters, etc)...

Because there's more engagement and activity and strategy in "battle a Pokemon and fend off its backups, hanging on until the reinforcement you actually want shows up, oh and by the way you might even have to do some out-of-the-box strategies like Leppa+Recycle or even Leppa+Trick" than there is in "run around in the grass for 20 minutes until you get lucky and finally hit that 5% appearance rate"

XY did have ambush encounters, that's true. They don't really stick out in my mind, idk if I ever spent much time looking for any of the Pokemon encountered that way.

 

[R_N]

Because there's more engagement and activity and strategy in "battle a Pokemon and fend off its backups, hanging on until the reinforcement you actually want shows up, oh and by the way you might even have to do some out-of-the-box strategies like Leppa+Recycle or even Leppa+Trick" than there is in "run around in the grass for 20 minutes until you get lucky and finally hit that 5% appearance rate"

Or you just put a big guy up front, probably with false swipe or a weaker move like you would with a normal encounter, proc an orb, and then just keep killing things for 30 minutes until the one you want shows up
throw out a heal occasionally
if i'm playing SM instead of USUM, hope that the SOS calls stop once you switch targets
The conceit of the recycle strategy probably never comes up unless you're hunting for a HA (which is an entirely different kettle of annoying fish) since if you're just hunting for a Pokemon that's not spawning its best to just kill the original and start a chain off the helper.


If it came down to killing a bunch of corsola begging Mareanie or Gorebyss to show up vs walking around some grass hopping for Absol to show up, Absol wins every time because from my actual repeated experiences the latter is way shorter to hope for and & way more straight forward get.

 

[AztecCroc]

Or you just put a big guy up front, probably with false swipe or a weaker move like you would with a normal encounter, proc an orb, and then just keep killing things for 30 minutes until the one you want shows up
throw out a heal occasionally
if i'm playing SM instead of USUM, hope that the SOS calls stop once you switch targets
The conceit of the recycle strategy probably never comes up unless you're hunting for a HA (which is an entirely different kettle of annoying fish) since if you're just hunting for a Pokemon that's not spawning its best to just kill the original and start a chain off the helper.

Pokemon called by the SOS mechanic have a lowered (if not zero) chance of successfully calling a helper and some have fewer Pokemon they're capable of calling than the base one (even if they're the same species).

However;

If it came down to killing a bunch of corsola begging Mareanie or Gorebyss to show up vs walking around some grass hopping for Absol to show up, Absol wins every time because from my actual repeated experiences the latter is way shorter to hope for and & way more straight forward get.

This is absolutely correct.

 

[Hugin]

As long as we're talking Legendary Abilities, let's mention Pressure. Because there's no logic there. It's sort of the default, this-is-a-legendary ability, being on EVERY non-mythical from Gens 1 and 2, and several from 4. But Deoxys is the only Gen 3 legend to get it, and Kyurem-Base the only post-4 Legendary with it. Meanwhile non-legendaries that get it are Aerodactyl(probably a reference to the Legendary Birds), a few powerful/rare/weird mons like Absol and Wailord, and then stuff like Dusclops and Bisharp chosen seemingly at random. I'm just not sure what they were going for. If it's just supposed to troll you by making captures harder, why didn't they use it for ALL legends*? But if it's supposed to represent fighting an overwhelming opponent, why do any of the random mons that get it do so?

*Yes, Kyogre/Groudon had reason not to get Pressure, but the Lake Guardians, Regis, Swords of Justice, etc would have made perfect sense with it

 

[Esserise]

and Kyurem-Base the only post-4 Legendary with it.

Eternatus also has it.

But yeah, I don’t really get it. I think my gut feeling has always been along the lines of what you propose, that it’s supposed to make the battles “harder” by draining PP faster, but that’s not really a satisfying answer. I kinda hope that, with them becoming a little more comfortable with overwriting established Abilities, that they might put some of the Legendaries with Pressure under review at some point.

(I’m kind of surprised that out of all the Gen 4 Legendaries, Heatran doesn’t get it. Because it would actually kind of make sense with Heatran’s lore — erupting volcanoes, pressure, and so forth.)

 

[QuentinQuonce]

As long as we're talking Legendary Abilities, let's mention Pressure. Because there's no logic there. It's sort of the default, this-is-a-legendary ability, being on EVERY non-mythical from Gens 1 and 2, and several from 4. But Deoxys is the only Gen 3 legend to get it, and Kyurem-Base the only post-4 Legendary with it. Meanwhile non-legendaries that get it are Aerodactyl(probably a reference to the Legendary Birds), a few powerful/rare/weird mons like Absol and Wailord, and then stuff like Dusclops and Bisharp chosen seemingly at random. I'm just not sure what they were going for. If it's just supposed to troll you by making captures harder, why didn't they use it for ALL legends*? But if it's supposed to represent fighting an overwhelming opponent, why do any of the random mons that get it do so?

*Yes, Kyogre/Groudon had reason not to get Pressure, but the Lake Guardians, Regis, Swords of Justice, etc would have made perfect sense with it

Absol always felt right because it's a "legendary" Pokemon (as in, the Pokedex describes it as being one) and when I first encountered one I had that same sense of "oh shit, this is serious business" as I did when encountering a legendary.

The one which made absolutely no sense to me is Weavile. It's an ability that works best when you've got the staying power needed to soak up hits, and Weavile absolutely doesn't.

I do think it's there for a general sense of "fighting these Pokemon is overwhelmingly tough"; you'll burn out faster than you would fighting something else, and it's well-named for the sense of pressure you feel when you're trying to catch a legendary and you're up against the clock because you have to catch it before it either knocks out all of your squad or you run out of balls.

(I’m kind of surprised that out of all the Gen 4 Legendaries, Heatran doesn’t get it. Because it would actually kind of make sense with Heatran’s lore — erupting volcanoes, pressure, and so forth.)

Heatran is the least legendary legendary to ever legendary, so of course it got snubbed.

Speaking of which, I know lots of Pokemon have a Hidden Ability that isn't a superior choice to their regular one, but damn did Heatran get shafted in that department too; sure Flame Body has some utility but in general it's not worth losing an immunity for. It's kind of funny that it took three generations for it to become available when the result is so underwhelming.

 

[AztecCroc]

Absol always felt right because it's a "legendary" Pokemon (as in, the Pokedex describes it as being one) and when I first encountered one I had that same sense of "oh shit, this is serious business" as I did when encountering a legendary.

The one which made absolutely no sense to me is Weavile. It's an ability that works best when you've got the staying power needed to soak up hits, and Weavile absolutely doesn't.

I do think it's there for a general sense of "fighting these Pokemon is overwhelmingly tough"; you'll burn out faster than you would fighting something else, and it's well-named for the sense of pressure you feel when you're trying to catch a legendary and you're up against the clock because you have to catch it before it either knocks out all of your squad or you run out of balls.



Heatran is the least legendary legendary to ever legendary, so of course it got snubbed.

Speaking of which, I know lots of Pokemon have a Hidden Ability that isn't a superior choice to their regular one, but damn did Heatran get shafted in that department too; sure Flame Body has some utility but in general it's not worth losing an immunity for. It's kind of funny that it took three generations for it to become available when the result is so underwhelming.

I'm somewhat convinced Heatran was originally some kind of rare but not actually legendary Pokémon (like Volcarona).
It can be either gender at random and it has an Egg Cycle count of 10 rather than the normal 80 or 120 usually used for unbreedable legends.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm somewhat convinced Heatran was originally some kind of rare but not actually legendary Pokémon (like Volcarona).
It can be either gender at random and it has an Egg Cycle count of 10 rather than the normal 80 or 120 usually used for unbreedable legends.

I've heard a theory that Heatran was specifically planned to be the Metagross to Garchomp's Salamence. 600 BST is actually somewhat rare for legendaries.

 

[Coronis]

But yes, I'd like to see areas like the Bagon room in Meteor Falls more commonly used too.

iirc they did this in Area Zero with Roaring Moon/Iron Valiant?

Its harder to do in the overworld obvs and caves seems the only really natural way to implement it - at least off the top of my head. I wouldn’t want them to overuse it though, I like it being restricted to a few Pokemon.

 

[VividBunnie]

As if I didn't have enough mixed feelings towards Y-Comm in SwSh as is, Scarlet/Violet's map button also being tied to the Y button means I am in for muscle memory antics whenever I send some mons over from Paldea to Galar to get the Tower Master and Galar Champion ribbons or just cheaper access to Vitamins. Feels like old wounds just open up again every single time I instinctively go for the map button by reflex only to get thrown into the Y-Comm interface instead.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

iirc they did this in Area Zero with Roaring Moon/Iron Valiant?

Its harder to do in the overworld obvs and caves seems the only really natural way to implement it - at least off the top of my head. I wouldn’t want them to overuse it though, I like it being restricted to a few Pokemon.

Yeah SV has a few caves and special areas like that, which is very cool, but unfortunately I think the spawn system kills some of the magic, because you end up riding around in circles in this enclosed space until the rare Pokemon pops into existence right in front of you. To me it ends up feeling even less immersive than the old random encounter system.

 

[Axiemeister]

As long as we're talking Legendary Abilities, let's mention Pressure. Because there's no logic there. It's sort of the default, this-is-a-legendary ability, being on EVERY non-mythical from Gens 1 and 2, and several from 4. But Deoxys is the only Gen 3 legend to get it, and Kyurem-Base the only post-4 Legendary with it. Meanwhile non-legendaries that get it are Aerodactyl(probably a reference to the Legendary Birds), a few powerful/rare/weird mons like Absol and Wailord, and then stuff like Dusclops and Bisharp chosen seemingly at random. I'm just not sure what they were going for. If it's just supposed to troll you by making captures harder, why didn't they use it for ALL legends*? But if it's supposed to represent fighting an overwhelming opponent, why do any of the random mons that get it do so?

*Yes, Kyogre/Groudon had reason not to get Pressure, but the Lake Guardians, Regis, Swords of Justice, etc would have made perfect sense with it

i just think the philosophy on abilities gradually changed from mostly flavour in gen 3 to "okay how do we actively improve this mon but making sense with flavour?" afterwards, which explains why most of them were redeemed by useful hidden abilities. (but not all - why the hell is mewtwo saddled with unnerve? not even doubles-relevant like telepathy)

and in the topic of hidden abilities for legendaries/mythicals, i am forever annoyed they changed the gen 2 beasts' HAs to shared inner focus. the ability itself is fine, but it annoys me that the three share Both of their abilities now

 

[QuentinQuonce]

i just think the philosophy on abilities gradually changed from mostly flavour in gen 3 to "okay how do we actively improve this mon but making sense with flavour?" afterwards, which explains why most of them were redeemed by useful hidden abilities. (but not all - why the hell is mewtwo saddled with unnerve? not even doubles-relevant like telepathy)

and in the topic of hidden abilities for legendaries/mythicals, i am forever annoyed they changed the gen 2 beasts' HAs to shared inner focus. the ability itself is fine, but it annoys me that the three share Both of their abilities now

I'm the opposite on this, Inner Focus sucks. The fact that they share it bothers me much less, since nearly all legendary groupings share at least one ability: the birds and the creation trio can all have Pressure, the (original trio of) Regis can all have Clear Body*, the Muskedeers can all have Justified, the Latis and the lake trio both have Levitate, and so on.

But yeah, the original HAs for those three were far, far better and I wish they'd been kept. Can't say for sure but my theory is that they were probably intended to be distributed via a giveaway at some point in either Gen V or VI and both times Game Freak got cold feet over how powerful those HAs would make the trio and bailed. Then during Gen VII's development they decided that Pokemon transferred from the VC titles would have their hidden abilities, realised there was no way to avoid getting the beasts with their HAs and changed them to something they figured was harmless enough not to matter. The same goes for Zapdos.




*huh, just noticed neither Regieleki or Regidrago have hidden abilities like the others do. Wonder if that'll ever change.

 

[R_N]

*huh, just noticed neither Regieleki or Regidrago have hidden abilities like the others do. Wonder if that'll ever change.

Likewise, the Galarian Birds also don't have hidden abilities. Honestly that one feels a little more dumb, just because you can kind of handwave the 2 regi having signature abilities as the reason why (even though they aren't SO integral to their design that you'd wonder why they didnt have them), but the birds just have regular abilities.

I think it'd have been easy to just give Clear Body to the Regi as HA, an inversion of the usual, and then just give the Galarians their own thing. Or Pressure, to keep the joke going.

 

[Axiemeister]

I'm the opposite on this, Inner Focus sucks. The fact that they share it bothers me much less, since nearly all legendary groupings share at least one ability: the birds and the creation trio can all have Pressure, the (original trio of) Regis can all have Clear Body*, the Muskedeers can all have Justified, the Latis and the lake trio both have Levitate, and so on.

i do like that legendary groups share an ability or an ability theme at least (tapus and treasures), but... the beast trio already shared pressure. the original HAs are a lot better than inner focus, sure, but i wouldn't even mind if they got different abilities even if they were all inner focus-level (NOT unnerve though omg.)

i don't know how i feel about regieleki/drago having signature abilities and no HA because i don't even know how i feel about their status as regis to begin with. creative designs for sure, but that part of the lore already felt very complete.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

i don't know how i feel about regieleki/drago having signature abilities and no HA because i don't even know how i feel about their status as regis to begin with. creative designs for sure, but that part of the lore already felt very complete.

I mean the two additional Regis are a little separate from the original trio in terms of design:
Regirock/ice/steel: made of physical elements, not spherical, hidden in separate ruins.
Regieleki/drago: made of fantasy elements, spherical, share a home.

 

[Esserise]

Regieleki/drago: made of fantasy elements

I don’t know that I would classify electricity as a “fantasy” element, exactly :P

I think I get what you mean though. The original trio all represent hard, raw materials: rocks, ice, steel. Tangible materials you can shape and build with. Whereas the Galarian Regi duo represent types of energy: electricity, and magical dragon energy*. And in a way, their Abilities all kind of reflect this. The original trio’s Abilities are all suggestive of their bodies’ physical properties. Clear Body as the shared default, and then Sturdy, Ice Body, and Light Metal as more bespoke Hidden Abilities. Then you have Regieleki and Regidrago, whose unique Abilities serve to increase their damage output. It’s less about what they’re made up of, and more about how the kind of energy that they each embody can empower them.

* Now, precisely why they chose that as the kind of energy to represent rather than something like fire or wind, or even one of the more conventional choices for “magic” energy like psychic, ghost, or fairy, I’m not entirely sure — my best guess would be that they wanted a strong visual contrast between modernity and antiquity, but then, they’re all ancient in regards to the lore, so I don’t really know.

 

[AztecCroc]

I don’t know that I would classify electricity as a “fantasy” element, exactly :P

I think I get what you mean though. The original trio all represent hard, raw materials: rocks, ice, steel. Tangible materials you can shape and build with. Whereas the Galarian Regi duo represent types of energy: electricity, and magical dragon energy*. And in a way, their Abilities all kind of reflect this. The original trio’s Abilities are all suggestive of their bodies’ physical properties. Clear Body as the shared default, and then Sturdy, Ice Body, and Light Metal as more bespoke Hidden Abilities. Then you have Regieleki and Regidrago, whose unique Abilities serve to increase their damage output. It’s less about what they’re made up of, and more about how the kind of energy that they each embody can empower them.

* Now, precisely why they chose that as the kind of energy to represent rather than something like fire or wind, or even one of the more conventional choices for “magic” energy like psychic, ghost, or fairy, I’m not entirely sure — my best guess would be that they wanted a strong visual contrast between modernity and antiquity, but then, they’re all ancient in regards to the lore, so I don’t really know.

Fun Fact: The concept of leylines exists in Asian cultures as well, most Asian languages refer to them as dragon veins.

 

[DetectiveDaikon]

>(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Boy oh boy,

Priority moves are absolute cancer and I'm tired of pretending that its not, and its ridiculous that only 2 Pokemon(Technically 3 with Lele) have abilities to counter this, Bruxish with Dazzling and Tsareena with Queensly Majesty, that are both ZU ATM iirc

My solution would be a temporary metagame where mons like Mega Sceptile, Mega Altaria, Pheromosa, Polteageist have the ability to reign free without Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Mach Punch etc,

 

[woodgoldtwo]

>(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Boy oh boy,

Priority moves are absolute cancer and I'm tired of pretending that its not, and its ridiculous that only 2 Pokemon(Technically 3 with Lele) have abilities to counter this, Bruxish with Dazzling and Tsareena with Queensly Majesty, that are both ZU ATM iirc

My solution would be a temporary metagame where mons like Mega Sceptile, Mega Altaria, Pheromosa, Polteageist have the ability to reign free without Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Mach Punch etc,

Both Bruxish and Tsareena are NU and then there is also Farigiraf in PU which is actually quite a good pokemon in VGC (y’know, the main format they balance around?)