Linked

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Ah, the pain when a poke got banned in OU. It got banned in other metas that follows its banlist.

I mean, one of the pro-ban reason in Aegislash ban here is, "there is no reason to bring it down from ubers." That is probably the same reason as Landorus I. If we were to unban Landorus I, one of the reason probably "there is no reason to unban Landorus I from Ubers."

On the other hand, Landorus I isn't overpowered here, unlike in OU. Because of this, people would probably say there is no reason to ban Landorus I from Linked besides "following OU banlist." I'm saying this because I, too, hate seeing a poke got banned.

Anyway, goodbye Landorus I.

Adding a damage modifier complicates the metagame too much. Simpler set of rules = better.

Flavor-wise, it would make sense to apply the 10% HP penalization. Alternatively, I'd propose modifying the priority rule so that linked moves always go last in the priority bracket of the least-priority move. In the fashion of Stall, Full Incense or Lagging Tail.

Problem is, that wouldn't solve the switching problems which I addressed in my posts before.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Ah, the pain when a poke got banned in OU. It got banned in other metas that follows its banlist.

I mean, one of the pro-ban reason in Aegislash ban here is, "there is no reason to bring it down from ubers." That is probably the same reason as Landorus I. If we were to unban Landorus I, one of the reason probably "there is no reason to unban Landorus I from Ubers."

On the other hand, Landorus I isn't overpowered here, unlike in OU. Because of this, people would probably say there is no reason to ban Landorus I from Linked besides "following OU banlist." I'm saying this because I, too, hate seeing a poke got banned.

Anyway, goodbye Landorus I.



Problem is, that wouldn't solve the switching problems which I addressed in my posts before.

When you think about it Landrous might be broken here as well... It still has no counters and is a terror to any team. I don't mind that it's gone

 

[The Immortal]

This isn't like other OMs, Chopin. STABmons gives every Pokemon additions to their learnsets, for example. Linked does not change anything about what a Pokemon can learn, or what ability it can have, etc. So, something broken in OU is going to be broken here. In fact, I'd argue something broken in OU is more broken here. You're wrong when you say it's not overpowered; it was just not being utilized.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Anyway. Instead of arguing about Landorus I ban, let's get back to the main topic, which is damage nerf. Would adding a damage modifier to linked moves complicate the metagame too much? I don't see the difference with 10% recoil, except that it would affect status moves, which... make Stall more unviable.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

This isn't like other OMs, Chopin. STABmons gives every Pokemon additions to their learnsets, for example. Linked does not change anything about what a Pokemon can learn, or what ability it can have, etc. So, something broken in OU is going to be broken here. In fact, I'd argue something broken in OU is more broken here. You're wrong when you say it's not overpowered; it was just not being utilized.

People are using the most common set, they're hooked on Linked and want to use Linked setd instead of standard sets. All out attacker is broken, but people want to use Smack down + Earth power, which is outclassed by Therian, so people use that instead

 

[Funbot28]

In my opinion, Fake Out outside of the link would be better to get the flinch, then link PuP and Last Resort so that each time you use Last Resort it gets more powerful. Also, Fake Out inside the link has no priority, so it won't often get the flinch in such a fast paced metagame with a variety of Scarfers, boosters, and priority users

Ya that sounds better :)

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

For now, I need to know about your opinion about this. Vote please, and tell me the reason why.

http://strawpoll.me/4546912

 

[M'joe'ra]

Alright I guess its finally my turn to talk about talonflame.

Whoo boy this thing can be annoying to face. Although it has the equivalent of a +1 priority banded parental bond boost for it's main attacking link I do believe that it is a manageable threat for this meta. One of the things that keeps this thing from being broken is the insane amount of recoil damage that it can take after it attacks. Due to the fact that rocky helmet is even more useful in this meta it has become somewhat common -at least in my experience- to the point that if you switch in something that can live a parental bond brave bird -or not, you can just sack something with the helmet to get off as much recoil as possible- you can deal enough recoil to put talonflame beyond the range of switching in again with rocks up or dying if it uses it's link again.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic/Fire Blast/Stealth Rock
- Endure

This is the standard tank chomp set but with a changed moveset that works better in this meta. As you can see from this set the Garchomp can switch in on any move or link that talon picks barring the relatively rare will-o-wisp and give it somewhere from 32% minimum taking a u-turn or over 60% to 70%ish easily when taking the main link. If that doesn't finish off the suicide bird then you can pick endure to try and do something else with Garchomp while killing off the bird with recoil damage. If you really want to you can run a more physically defensive set with roar + dragon tail in a link combined with a hazard setter to phaze and deal extensive amounts of damage to your opponent's team.

Another thing that keeps this mon in check is the fact that some mons are not 2hkod by it's link.

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Slide
- Assurance
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

OR

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Assurance
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch

Tyranitar is a highly underrated mon in the linked metagame. Godzilla is able to do a variety of things like setting up rocks or sand or dragon dances for a sweep.

252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- Guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 124-148 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 95.7% chance to 3HKO

With either set tyranitar can come in easily on any of talonflame's moves in it's moveset and do whatever it wants in return. The reason why I chose to run max HP instead of ATK for the mega set is due to the immense power that mega tyranitar has even without any investment. -Reaches 365 ATK with only 4 ATK evs invested along with it's link of a 75bp rock slide and 120bp assurance if rock slide hits-

252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 24.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 124-147 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 139-166 (49.4 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
-Manectric loses but the point of this is for manectric to get off an intimidate on the talon-
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 238-280 (67.6 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-Yes ferrothorn does get 2hkod but in the process talonflame probably will die from recoil-

As you can see above there are a few mons that can come in and take a hit from talon and possibly do something back, yes a bunch of them lose to flare blitz but if your opponent does pick flare blitz then you are put in possibly better situation because you can now outspeed it or send in something that resists the hit and possibly make sure that talon never comes in again.

Tl;Dr Talon can be dealt with, particularly in the form of recoil and is not impossible to wall.

Also a small note on the damage modifiers, I feel that a 75% nerf would complicate things too much and giving linked moves the effect of an iron ball just doesn't work for me. Giving a link a 10% recoil for the entire link doesn't sound that bad but 20% for every time you use a link seems like a bit much.

 

[Akumeoy]

I've been running Mega Manectric with just enough bulk to avoid a 2HKO from Tflame, and while the power drop is definitely noticeable, the bulk has saved my ass more often than the extra power would have. It fits nicely into volt-turn cores to mitigate that whole "switching in is impossible" thing.

Tankchomp is also fun to use with a Dragon Tail + Earthquake link. If the opponent runs more than one Pokémon that doesn't appreciate an Earthquake, they're always at risk of having it phazed in and rekt. Haxy, yes, but it comes in handy.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Alright I guess its finally my turn to talk about talonflame.

Whoo boy this thing can be annoying to face. Although it has the equivalent of a +1 priority banded parental bond boost for it's main attacking link I do believe that it is a manageable threat for this meta. One of the things that keeps this thing from being broken is the insane amount of recoil damage that it can take after it attacks. Due to the fact that rocky helmet is even more useful in this meta it has become somewhat common -at least in my experience- to the point that if you switch in something that can live a parental bond brave bird -or not, you can just sack something with the helmet to get off as much recoil as possible- you can deal enough recoil to put talonflame beyond the range of switching in again with rocks up or dying if it uses it's link again.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic/Fire Blast/Stealth Rock
- Endure

This is the standard tank chomp set but with a changed moveset that works better in this meta. As you can see from this set the Garchomp can switch in on any move or link that talon picks barring the relatively rare will-o-wisp and give it somewhere from 32% minimum taking a u-turn or over 60% to 70%ish easily when taking the main link. If that doesn't finish off the suicide bird then you can pick endure to try and do something else with Garchomp while killing off the bird with recoil damage. If you really want to you can run a more physically defensive set with roar + dragon tail in a link combined with a hazard setter to phaze and deal extensive amounts of damage to your opponent's team.

Another thing that keeps this mon in check is the fact that some mons are not 2hkod by it's link.

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Slide
- Assurance
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

OR

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Assurance
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch

Tyranitar is a highly underrated mon in the linked metagame. Godzilla is able to do a variety of things like setting up rocks or sand or dragon dances for a sweep.

252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- Guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 124-148 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 95.7% chance to 3HKO

With either set tyranitar can come in easily on any of talonflame's moves in it's moveset and do whatever it wants in return. The reason why I chose to run max HP instead of ATK for the mega set is due to the immense power that mega tyranitar has even without any investment. -Reaches 365 ATK with only 4 ATK evs invested along with it's link of a 75bp rock slide and 120bp assurance if rock slide hits-

252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 24.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 124-147 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 139-166 (49.4 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
-Manectric loses but the point of this is for manectric to get off an intimidate on the talon-
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 238-280 (67.6 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-Yes ferrothorn does get 2hkod but in the process talonflame probably will die from recoil-

As you can see above there are a few mons that can come in and take a hit from talon and possibly do something back, yes a bunch of them lose to flare blitz but if your opponent does pick flare blitz then you are put in possibly better situation because you can now outspeed it or send in something that resists the hit and possibly make sure that talon never comes in again.

Tl;Dr Talon can be dealt with, particularly in the form of recoil and is not impossible to wall.

Also a small note on the damage modifiers, I feel that a 75% nerf would complicate things too much and giving linked moves the effect of an iron ball just doesn't work for me. Giving a link a 10% recoil for the entire link doesn't sound that bad but 20% for every time you use a link seems like a bit much.

It's not exactly what can switch in, though the only really 100% reliable counter that doesn't give a crap about whatever talonflame throws at it is air ballon physically defensive heatran with stone edge, and that's just silly. Most of what you listed don't like a flare blitz or a will o wisp. My biggest problem with talonflame is that it prevents me from using less bulky 100/100/100 uninvested for example is OHKOd. That means anything with less defence or a weakness to flying can't really be used. Beedril? Gone. Victini? Gone.

 

[nu nu X]

I dunno if this is a bug or intentional, but if a status move is linked with an attacking move, (with Assault Vest) is the status move supposed to go through? I just tried it out today and the status move does seem to go through.

 

[Akumeoy]

I dunno if this is a bug or intentional, but if a status move is linked with an attacking move, is the status move supposed to go through? I just tried it out today and the status move does seem to go through.

If it's intentional, I'm against it. Assault Vest should mean no status moves used, not just no status moves selected. If it's not intentional, well, that'll need fixing.

 

[Slayer95]

If it's intentional, I'm against it. Assault Vest should mean no status moves used, not just no status moves selected. If it's not intentional, well, that'll need fixing.

Non-intentional. It will be fixed on next server update, breaking the link.

There is a bug.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237655376

When Skarmory got Encored (unlinked) with Whirlwind + Roost, it says "there was no target" when there is clearly a poke in front of it. Whirlwind still works when Skarmory not Encored or got Encore linked with something. Whirlwind doesn't work only when Skarm got Encored by unlinked Encore.

Encore is a hard beast to tame. This is the implementation I found had the most intuitive behaviour, and it happens to have this unfortunate visual glitch. In the end, it prevents the usage of Whirlwind and locks Skarmory in the last move. (Roost fails because Skarm has full HP).

If someone finds that Encore has an actual impactful bug (other than confusing players), please report it :)

 

[Gyarad0s]

Alright, so I'm going to give my opinion of the power decrease for linked moves. I do not think this change should be implemented, and here's why:

My first argument is very easy to dismiss as irrelevant, but I would encourage you not to do so. Basically, Linked is more fun with the full power output. I'm not playing Linked to have a perfectly balanced metagame, I'm playing it because I'm trying to have fun. I don't need to make the meta as competitive as possible - Though it is extremely competitive and decently balanced - I just want it to be balanced enough so as to encourage enjoyment. This is why I think Talon should be banned, because it discourages fun by invalidating so many strategies, types, and mons; but that's another matter entirely. I think that having the full power output makes the meta more enjoyable and keeps with the Mystery Dungeon theme, and I think many would agree with me on this.

Second, The power decrease doesn't balance the metagame, it simply makes different strategies more powerful. Setup such as Calm mind, Double dancing, and Cosmic Power become incredible. Phazering + recovery such as Roost + Whirlwind Skarmory becomes incredibly potent. Hazard Stacking becomes powerful, and things like SubToxic Gliscor become massive threats. All of these things receive power buffs while strategies like dragon dancing or powerful choice scarfers such as Gengar or Keldeo are significantly weakened. The metagame wouldn't be balanced, the balance of power would merely be shifted in a different direction. And if you notice, all of these strategies would lend to a slower metagame. I, for one, enjoy the fast paced metagame of Linked and don't want it to slow down by significant leaps.

Thirdly, it just makes the meta more complicated. Is this necessarily bad? No, but it's annoying for new players and will be the source of much confusion. A better change, I think (though this would nerf the shit out of Serperior lol) would be to have moves in Links take 2 PP each to use. I believe this was actually the mechanic in Mystery Dungeon; and if a nerf is necessary this would be, in my opinion, the best way to nerf linked moves.

Now a little about Talonflame. I have already expressed my opinion a couple times in previous posts but I would just like adress a point M'joe'ra brought up.

Although it has the equivalent of a +1 priority banded parental bond boost for it's main attacking link I do believe that it is a manageable threat for this meta

Alright, so this is a statement that I totally agree with but an argument that I totally disagree with. I added bold on the part I would like to draw attention to. This is correct, Talon is manageable. But the reason it should be banned isn't because it's unmanageable, it's because Talonflame invalidates so many mons and strategies and is entirely too centralizing. I would draw your attention to bans like Aegislash or Landorus-I in OU. These mons were absolutely manageable in the meta (Aegi more so than Lando), they simply hard countered too much, OHKOd too much, and needed multiple checks built in to every team. In other words, they invalidated too many mons/strategies and were over-centralizing.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Alright, so I'm going to give my opinion of the power decrease for linked moves. I do not think this change should be implemented, and here's why:

My first argument is very easy to dismiss as irrelevant, but I would encourage you not to do so. Basically, Linked is more fun with the full power output. I'm not playing Linked to have a perfectly balanced metagame, I'm playing it because I'm trying to have fun. I don't need to make the meta as competitive as possible - Though it is extremely competitive and decently balanced - I just want it to be balanced enough so as to encourage enjoyment. This is why I think Talon should be banned, because it discourages fun by invalidating so many strategies, types, and mons; but that's another matter entirely. I think that having the full power output makes the meta more enjoyable and keeps with the Mystery Dungeon theme, and I think many would agree with me on this.

Second, The power decrease doesn't balance the metagame, it simply makes different strategies more powerful. Setup such as Calm mind, Double dancing, and Cosmic Power become incredible. Phazering + recovery such as Roost + Whirlwind Skarmory becomes incredibly potent. Hazard Stacking becomes powerful, and things like SubToxic Gliscor become massive threats. All of these things receive power buffs while strategies like dragon dancing or powerful choice scarfers such as Gengar or Keldeo are significantly weakened. The metagame wouldn't be balanced, the balance of power would merely be shifted in a different direction. And if you notice, all of these strategies would lend to a slower metagame. I, for one, enjoy the fast paced metagame of Linked and don't want it to slow down by significant leaps.

Thirdly, it just makes the meta more complicated. Is this necessarily bad? No, but it's annoying for new players and will be the source of much confusion. A better change, I think (though this would nerf the shit out of Serperior lol) would be to have moves in Links take 2 PP each to use. I believe this was actually the mechanic in Mystery Dungeon; and if a nerf is necessary this would be, in my opinion, the best way to nerf linked moves.

Now a little about Talonflame. I have already expressed my opinion a couple times in previous posts but I would just like adress a point M'joe'ra brought up.



Alright, so this is a statement that I totally agree with but an argument that I totally disagree with. I added bold on the part I would like to draw attention to. This is correct, Talon is manageable. But the reason it should be banned isn't because it's unmanageable, it's because Talonflame invalidates so many mons and strategies and is entirely too centralizing. I would draw your attention to bans like Aegislash or Landorus-I in OU. These mons were absolutely manageable in the meta (Aegi more so than Lando), they simply hard countered too much, OHKOd too much, and needed multiple checks built in to every team. In other words, they invalidated too many mons/strategies and were over-centralizing.

By 2 PP each use, you mean 1 PP in each moves or 2 PP in each moves? If you mean 2 PP in each moves, that's the first time I heard about that. Need to play Mystery Dungeon to confirm this.

 

[Gyarad0s]

By 2 PP each use, you mean 1 PP in each moves or 2 PP in each moves? If you mean 2 PP in each moves, that's the first time I heard about that. Need to play Mystery Dungeon to confirm this.

Looked it up and all sources say it is 1 PP per move not 2 like I thought. I thought someone said this in the OM room a couple days ago; evidently not. I still think this would be the best nerf if a nerf is found to be necessary.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Opinions on stuff:

Talonflame: Don't Ban
Talonflame has a few problems. Despite being a solid S-Rank Pokemon, Ferrothorn or Garchomp (or another Rocky Helmet Pokemon or hell even Druddigon LOL) switching in on it instantly stripes it of over half of its health+whatever recoil it takes from BB or Blitz (even though Blitz is an inferior choice I still see people using it in the link >.<). This and it being very weak to Rocks as well as some mons (namely strong fast Steel types such as Jirachi or Heatran or Rock types like Tyranitar, although some other mons have the bulk to tank hits) can bulk an Acro+BB and retaliate with a KO (Talon is frail asf). Talon has counters and a variety of checks as well as a huge hazard weakness, so despite being an excellent Pokemon, I don't believe it is banworthy.

Nerfing Linked Moves: Don't
While I understand flavorwise that PMD has a nerf and this should too, realistically I am worried about its effects on the metagame. For example, one of the best ways to beat Clefable right now imo is OHKOing it with 2 Specs or Band boosted attacks (I used to use Specs Lando-I Sludge Wave/Earth Power, and I'll be using that for examples later since that's what I had the most experience using). Nerf these moves however, and suddenly it is simply set up bait. Think about that--arguably the most powerful wallbreaker in OU (and OU based metagame like Linked) with Specs (a power boost over LO) is set up bait when it hits a month with a SE moveand a neutral STAB attack. I think if we were to take this route we would end up having to ban more Pokemon (from stall) than we would if we kept it the same. I also personally think the meta is great right now. Linked is an offensive metagame, and that's that. Changing the whole structure of the meta would destabilize it imo and do more harm than good. That said, if something must be done I think that 2 PP removed for both moves in the link would be the best course of action (although I don't think even this is necessary, or at least not yet).

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Opinions on stuff:

Talonflame: Don't Ban
Talonflame has a few problems. Despite being a solid S-Rank Pokemon, Ferrothorn or Garchomp (or another Rocky Helmet Pokemon or hell even Druddigon LOL) switching in on it instantly stripes it of over half of its health+whatever recoil it takes from BB or Blitz (even though Blitz is an inferior choice I still see people using it in the link >.<). This and it being very weak to Rocks as well as some mons (namely strong fast Steel types such as Jirachi or Heatran or Rock types like Tyranitar, although some other mons have the bulk to tank hits) can bulk an Acro+BB and retaliate with a KO (Talon is frail asf). Talon has counters and a variety of checks as well as a huge hazard weakness, so despite being an excellent Pokemon, I don't believe it is banworthy.

Nerfing Linked Moves: Don't
While I understand flavorwise that PMD has a nerf and this should too, realistically I am worried about its effects on the metagame. For example, one of the best ways to beat Clefable right now imo is OHKOing it with 2 Specs or Band boosted attacks (I used to use Specs Lando-I Sludge Wave/Earth Power, and I'll be using that for examples later since that's what I had the most experience using). Nerf these moves however, and suddenly it is simply set up bait. Think about that--arguably the most powerful wallbreaker in OU (and OU based metagame like Linked) with Specs (a power boost over LO) is set up bait when it hits a month with a SE moveand a neutral STAB attack. I think if we were to take this route we would end up having to ban more Pokemon (from stall) than we would if we kept it the same. I also personally think the meta is great right now. Linked is an offensive metagame, and that's that. Changing the whole structure of the meta would destabilize it imo and do more harm than good. That said, if something must be done I think that 2 PP removed for both moves in the link would be the best course of action (although I don't think even this is necessary, or at least not yet).

Again its not that it doesn't have reliable switch in, though all those you mentioned get messed up by Will-o-wisp, but its that it makes certain pokemon unviable. When I build a team I can't sweep with Azumarill. I can't attempt to set up. Anything with uninvested 100/100/100 defences just die, outright. That's silly. You have to have either immense base defences to even live one hit, much less two. It doesn't matter how many speed boosts you set up as it will outspeed you with priority. There's only like one or two fighting, grass and bug pokemon that can even take a Parental bond choicebanded brave bird, most of them just die severely decreasing their usefulness and viability. When one pokemon can do that it's not healthy

 

[Nmone]

By 2 PP each use, you mean 1 PP in each moves or 2 PP in each moves? If you mean 2 PP in each moves, that's the first time I heard about that. Need to play Mystery Dungeon to confirm this.

This right here^. Only problem I see with 2PP being withdrawl from both linked moves. Would severely make stall even weaker than it is now. especially threats like Clefable, would no longer be able to run CP/CM+moonlight EVER again(IMO is the best linked moves on clef). I don't too much care for stall, I like linked the way it is. Just wanted to point this out.

EDIT: rof, replied to the wrong person. This was for
Gyarad0s

 

[Gyarad0s]

This right here^. Only problem I see with 2PP being withdrawl from both linked moves. Would severely make stall even weaker than it is now. especially threats like Clefable, would no longer be able to run CP/CM+moonlight EVER again(IMO is the best linked moves on clef). I don't too much care for stall, I like linked the way it is. Just wanted to point this out.

EDIT: rof, replied to the wrong person. This was for
Gyarad0s

Yeah after thinking about it a bit I realize that the 2PP idea seems to excessively hurt certain mons while leaving others completely untouched. This would likely worsen balance and create more issues than there currently are. I just don't think we should touch linked moves tbh, I don't think they require a nerf

 

[Gimmick]

So after playing the metagame a decent amount (~70ish battles) I figured I would give some input on a couple issues. Firstly, I'm glad Aegislash was rebanned. Not only was it difficult to take down because of its typing and bulk, it was rewarded with two insanely powerful moves that nothing could switch into. Because of the bulk and typing, Aegislash had a relatively easy time dishing out damage. Linked tends to not reward slower Pokemon, but Aegislash had exactly what it needed to thrive.

Secondly, I'm on the fence about a Talonflame ban. But first, even though Weavile is currently ranked at A-, I personally think it's a much more dangerous force in the metagame than people make it out to be. Equipped with a Choice Scarf, it outspeeds practically everything (even Adamant Weavile outspeeds Scarf Keldeo/Terrakion) and can do just absurd amounts of damage with PuP + Assurance (which I think is its best set). The only thing stopping it atm is Rocky Helmet Clefable and... Talonflame. Talonflame is an offensive answer to several Pokemon and keeps you from auto-losing to all the set-up sweepers that Linked rewards. While Clefable is a more passive answer to them, Talonflame is a more active answer. So far, I've seen 4 distinct sets: CB Brave Bird + Roost, no item Brave Bird + Acrobatics, CB Brave Bird + Aerial Ace, and Swords Dance. The most difficult to take down is the Brave Bird + Roost set because it becomes insanely difficult to take it out passively through things like Rocky Helmet, Recoil, and Rough Skin damage. However, that set does have its shortcomings, namely being too weak to take down the usual and even shaky answers to Talonflame that every team should have. Talonflame's 4x weakness to SR is also keeping it back, especially because using SR in Linked is no longer a dead turn. The double attacking sets tend to get worn down really quickly (especially if SR is up) because of the popularity of Rocky Helmet. I think a Talonflame-less metagame would reward setup sweepers far too much since the other double priority users are far less powerful. I think having at least 3 very solid answers in Clefable, Quagsire, and Talonflame to set-up sweepers is ideal.

Now back to Weavile. I think Weavile should jump all the way to A+ on the Viability Rankings just for its Scarf PuP + Assurance set. It practically auto-wins once Clefable / Talonflame are gone and it's very difficult to stop after just 1 boost. Here are some calcs from an Adamant Scarf Weavile (which is what I like to use since it outspeeds basically everything anyway and gets some extra OHKOs):

Weavile Calcs

• 252+ Atk Weavile Power-Up Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 45-54 (13.1 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
  +1 252+ Atk Weavile Assurance vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 306-360 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
• +1 252+ Atk Weavile Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 17-21 (5.2 - 6.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
  +1 252+ Atk Weavile Assurance vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 316-373 (97.8 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
• +1 252+ Atk Weavile Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 126-150 (38 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  +2 252+ Atk Weavile Assurance vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 188-222 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  (Mega Gyarados cannot revenge kill Weavile even if it's only at +1)

Okay calcing in Linked is tedious and I think you get the idea. Weavile can OHKO a Manaphy with 100/100 defenses without prior PuP boosts. Then it becomes a snowball effect so it becomes exceedingly difficult to revenge kill with defensive Pokmeon since the only offensive Pokemon that can revenge kill absolutely have to have double priority because of Weavile's speed.

Third, I think Zapdos deserves a rise in the rankings to A as it's probably one of the best answers to Talonflame and slow Agility + Baton Pass is just stupid. Here's a replay showcasing my Zapdos getting a free switch into Talonflame and then passing +2 to a CB Landorus-T. (Weavile also 5-0s the guy after Talonflame dies). Zapdos can fill many roles as a Defogger, Agility Passer, Talonflame check, or Phaser with Thunder Wave, which is just absurdly annoying and pretty haxy sometimes. I think it's pretty solid in A while Talonflame is in the meta.

And finally, I'm surprised Ditto is only in C+ considering just having it on your team forces your opponent to play really differently until Ditto dies. It revenge kills so many things and rewards you for sacking Pokemon to an opponent who set up already. I'll be modest and nominate it for B, but I think it deserves B+ or even A- tbh. It's a really strong force as long as Linked remains a very offensive metagame.

 

[Ash Star]

Something that I fear even more than Choice Scarf Weavile right now:

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Assurance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off

This thing. Though not as fast as weavile, it is much more bulky and it has MOXIE. So if you get a PuP+Assurance OHKO(Which you're pretty much gonna get), it's basically a swords dance dealing shitloads of damage to everything. Like every other Set-up sweeper, it is weak to Clef and Talon, but take those two down and it's gg.

Another one:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

Stahp burds (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect/ Lava Plume/ Earth Power
- Stealth Rock/ Lava Plume/ Earth Power

Omfg sub+WoW. Sheer beauty. Does it even need an explanation?

First turn go in on something that fears Heatran like Serp or Burd or Sylveon. Go for the sub on their switch, and get a burn on the physical fighting or ground type they send in to stop you. If its not physical,you still get a free sub and a damage dealing burn. Then spam protect and sub. I used smartly, it can cripple several main team members.

A replay featuring em both:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-238425775

Best OMotM ive seen in a long time ^-^

Cheers

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I also disagree about Talonflame ban because of some reasons.

1. It is managable. Weak to Stealth Rocks, low defenses, a huge amount of recoil after it uses its STABs and popularity of Rocky Helmet make it won't live forever. It also have some checks. It is also one of the few things that can't run set up + attack move unless you want to get outsped by opposing Talonflame.

2. Talonflame is one of the very few things that prevents you from auto losing to Choice Scarf set up sweeper. Gimmick explained it. A Talonflame-less metagame would make Choice Scarf and setup even more prominent. Clefable and Quagsire can't wall everything, especially Mold Breaker pokes. I don't want to turn this metagame more into "Choice Scarf and Set Up: the meta." Unless you use a Trick Room team, there is no way to revenge those set up sweepers in Linked, because they have a Choice Scarf or a boosted Speed in Dragon Dance.

3. It is one of the few things that makes you run defensive pokes other than Unawares. BECAUSE it doesn't run set up + attacking move, it is wallable. In fact, we have more variety in teambuilding because Talonflame would make you run things like Defensive Garchomp, Mega Slowbro, which all of them get beaten by setup sweepers. I'd rather have Talonflame that makes you run Defensive pokes rather than having more offensive Grass, Bug and Fighting pokes that runs EVEN MORE Choice Scarf set up + attacking move.

You can still use Bug, Grass and Fighting types and pair them with something like Rhyperior and Physically Defensive Garchomp to punish it. In fact, Serperior, Lucario, Terrakion, Mienshao are quite common and viable.

 

[jeronipuff]

Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 92 SpD / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Torment
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
This is an extremely fun Thundy set, I haven't read all the post so I'm not sure if anyone has already used it but it shuts down set up Pokemon like Clef and it forces scarfers into struggle.

 

[jeronipuff]

One other thing, would this set work well?
Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Substitute
- Roost