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Project LC Theorymon Project [Submission Phase] [ded atm]
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
- Status
Going to theorymon Dragon / Poison Axew.
/
To checklist:
- This probably won't break Axew
- It's solid Mid-C for viability
- It's just an addition of an second type to a one-typed pokemon
And flavorwise: there's no blatant contradiction? Axew is sort of poison-colored tbh
Analysis: A secondary Poison typing would almost certainly make Axew the first viable Dragon threat in ORAS lc. It could serve several offensive roles well - SD wallbreaker (STAB +2 Poison Jab OHKOs Spritzee), DD sweeper, and Choice Scarf cleaner. The second typing would afford Axew a plethora of resistances which would ease its ability to come in and fire off powerful moves as well as provide STAB coverage on more of the metagame. It would be good, but not broken; it would still be slow and lack the power to get past neutral bulky threats. Because this is an offensive buff, I'll provide metagame utility: this thing creams Chou / Foo volt-turn. It resists all of chinchou's standard moves and also can come in on a resisted drain punch or u-turn from mienfoo and wreak havoc.
To checklist:
- This probably won't break Axew
- It's solid Mid-C for viability
- It's just an addition of an second type to a one-typed pokemon
And flavorwise: there's no blatant contradiction? Axew is sort of poison-colored tbh
Analysis: A secondary Poison typing would almost certainly make Axew the first viable Dragon threat in ORAS lc. It could serve several offensive roles well - SD wallbreaker (STAB +2 Poison Jab OHKOs Spritzee), DD sweeper, and Choice Scarf cleaner. The second typing would afford Axew a plethora of resistances which would ease its ability to come in and fire off powerful moves as well as provide STAB coverage on more of the metagame. It would be good, but not broken; it would still be slow and lack the power to get past neutral bulky threats. Because this is an offensive buff, I'll provide metagame utility: this thing creams Chou / Foo volt-turn. It resists all of chinchou's standard moves and also can come in on a resisted drain punch or u-turn from mienfoo and wreak havoc.
You've turned me into a theorymonning junkie. Thanks for that.
Suggesting
Drizzle Poliwag
Flavor:
This makes complete sense, to be to totally frank. With Politoed sporting Drizzle as its Hidden Ability, it would only make sense for its pre-evolution to have access to Drizzle as well. The only true factor in the way of this already is Poliwag's split evolution line, as Poliwhirl and Poliwrath have Swift Swim as their Hidden Ability instead, and Poliwag appears to follow that evolution line more than its alternate line with Politoed.
Analysis:
Not only would this increase Poliwag's viability, but it would introduce a rain auto-inducer to the metagame, providing the grounds for rain teams to thrive. Poliwag already has excellent Speed, hitting 19 Speed with full investment, and its a formidable sweeper with Belly Drum. It wouldn't rival Vulpix's sheer offensive presence in tandem with sun, but it would most definitely not be dead weight after it sets ups rain. Rain teams would increase in usage, with potent Swift Swimmers, such as Omanyte and Anorith, also increasing in usage. Manual rain, as it stands currently, allows various already-threatening Pokemon in LC to abuse the weather, such as Chinchou and Croagunk; increasing this threat would shake up the metagame quite a bit.
Moveset:
Poliwag can pose a threat in two drastic ways: as a Belly Drum sweeper and as support / utility Pokemon. Poliwag's most common set(s) would be the following:
The only controversial aspect of the movesets would be in the latter moveset, with the final coverage move. Ice Beam hits Grass-types and Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb hit Chinchou. Mud Bomb has slightly more damage, but Hidden Power Ground will actually hit 100% of the time.
Suggesting
Flavor:
This makes complete sense, to be to totally frank. With Politoed sporting Drizzle as its Hidden Ability, it would only make sense for its pre-evolution to have access to Drizzle as well. The only true factor in the way of this already is Poliwag's split evolution line, as Poliwhirl and Poliwrath have Swift Swim as their Hidden Ability instead, and Poliwag appears to follow that evolution line more than its alternate line with Politoed.
Analysis:
Not only would this increase Poliwag's viability, but it would introduce a rain auto-inducer to the metagame, providing the grounds for rain teams to thrive. Poliwag already has excellent Speed, hitting 19 Speed with full investment, and its a formidable sweeper with Belly Drum. It wouldn't rival Vulpix's sheer offensive presence in tandem with sun, but it would most definitely not be dead weight after it sets ups rain. Rain teams would increase in usage, with potent Swift Swimmers, such as Omanyte and Anorith, also increasing in usage. Manual rain, as it stands currently, allows various already-threatening Pokemon in LC to abuse the weather, such as Chinchou and Croagunk; increasing this threat would shake up the metagame quite a bit.
Moveset:
Poliwag can pose a threat in two drastic ways: as a Belly Drum sweeper and as support / utility Pokemon. Poliwag's most common set(s) would be the following:
Poliwag @ Berry Juice
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Encore
- Return
Poliwag @ Damp Rock
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis
- Encore
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Encore
- Return
Poliwag @ Damp Rock
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis
- Encore
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb
The only controversial aspect of the movesets would be in the latter moveset, with the final coverage move. Ice Beam hits Grass-types and Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb hit Chinchou. Mud Bomb has slightly more damage, but Hidden Power Ground will actually hit 100% of the time.
This would be really broken, either it'd be banned or swift swim + drizzle will be banned, its much more dangerous than sun.You've turned me into a theorymonning junkie. Thanks for that.
SuggestingDrizzle Poliwag
Flavor:
This makes complete sense, to be to totally frank. With Politoed sporting Drizzle as its Hidden Ability, it would only make sense for its pre-evolution to have access to Drizzle as well. The only true factor in the way of this already is Poliwag's split evolution line, as Poliwhirl and Poliwrath have Swift Swim as their Hidden Ability instead, and Poliwag appears to follow that evolution line more than its alternate line with Politoed.
Analysis:
Not only would this increase Poliwag's viability, but it would introduce a rain auto-inducer to the metagame, providing the grounds for rain teams to thrive. Poliwag already has excellent Speed, hitting 19 Speed with full investment, and its a formidable sweeper with Belly Drum. It wouldn't rival Vulpix's sheer offensive presence in tandem with sun, but it would most definitely not be dead weight after it sets ups rain. Rain teams would increase in usage, with potent Swift Swimmers, such as Omanyte and Anorith, also increasing in usage. Manual rain, as it stands currently, allows various already-threatening Pokemon in LC to abuse the weather, such as Chinchou and Croagunk; increasing this threat would shake up the metagame quite a bit.
Moveset:
Poliwag can pose a threat in two drastic ways: as a Belly Drum sweeper and as support / utility Pokemon. Poliwag's most common set(s) would be the following:
Poliwag @ Berry Juice
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Encore
- Return
Poliwag @ Damp Rock
Level: 5
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis
- Encore
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb
The only controversial aspect of the movesets would be in the latter moveset, with the final coverage move. Ice Beam hits Grass-types and Hidden Power Ground / Mud Bomb hit Chinchou. Mud Bomb has slightly more damage, but Hidden Power Ground will actually hit 100% of the time.
Reserving post for my own theorymon so this doesn't seem like a 1 liner.
Drizzle Swim isn't banned in LC, wtf. It just doesn't exist because we've never had a Drizzle poke.
Oh. I am smart/10. Well, disregard my previous post lol.
If a theorymon turns out to be broken, would it be banned/removed?
Nominating Baton Pass + Swords Dance Venipede
Venipede is sitting at a dismal D rank currently, as its only real niche is a fast spikes and toxic spikes setter. Although it can set up toxic spikes, it fails to to much to many pokemon. Adding Swords Dance and Baton Pass would not only give it a niche as a quick passer, but also a late game cleaner who can set up on common fighting types. It can pass defensive and offensive boosts, sub, etc. With the simple addition of these two moves that its evolution gets, it could become very viable and fun to use.
Nominating Baton Pass + Swords Dance Venipede
Venipede is sitting at a dismal D rank currently, as its only real niche is a fast spikes and toxic spikes setter. Although it can set up toxic spikes, it fails to to much to many pokemon. Adding Swords Dance and Baton Pass would not only give it a niche as a quick passer, but also a late game cleaner who can set up on common fighting types. It can pass defensive and offensive boosts, sub, etc. With the simple addition of these two moves that its evolution gets, it could become very viable and fun to use.
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Banned.
My suggestion this week is Knock Off + Gunk Shot Stunky.
One of arguably the biggest liabilities in using Stunky is being forced to run mixed in order to have any Poison-type coverage. Running mixed comes at the cost of Speed or bulk, as Stunky must use a less than optimal nature in order to secure important KOes or outspeed certain foes while still being able to switch in on Abra and Gastly. These two moves put an ease on this burden, as Stunky can now enjoy the benefits of running a fully physical set, meaning it can run a -SpA nature and invest the EVs that would have gone into Special Attack into another stat.
As for the moves themselves, Knock Off is far and away the most spammable move in LC. It recieves STAB and removes the items of opponents, making Stunky's 63 Attack stat much less of an issue. It also allows Stunky to take on Fighting-types, as most will fall to a Play Rough after having their Eviolite removed and taking prior damage. Although Play Rough is illegal with Sucker Punch, Stunky's 18 Speed allows Knock Off to replace it easily.
Gunk Shot, as I previously stated, allows for more efficient use of EVs, and it is more powerful thanSludge Bomb, albeit at the cost of accuracy.
One of arguably the biggest liabilities in using Stunky is being forced to run mixed in order to have any Poison-type coverage. Running mixed comes at the cost of Speed or bulk, as Stunky must use a less than optimal nature in order to secure important KOes or outspeed certain foes while still being able to switch in on Abra and Gastly. These two moves put an ease on this burden, as Stunky can now enjoy the benefits of running a fully physical set, meaning it can run a -SpA nature and invest the EVs that would have gone into Special Attack into another stat.
As for the moves themselves, Knock Off is far and away the most spammable move in LC. It recieves STAB and removes the items of opponents, making Stunky's 63 Attack stat much less of an issue. It also allows Stunky to take on Fighting-types, as most will fall to a Play Rough after having their Eviolite removed and taking prior damage. Although Play Rough is illegal with Sucker Punch, Stunky's 18 Speed allows Knock Off to replace it easily.
Gunk Shot, as I previously stated, allows for more efficient use of EVs, and it is more powerful thanSludge Bomb, albeit at the cost of accuracy.
I'd like to contribute Dark/Ghost Zorua
/
- Zorua sits at a lovely D rank.
- There's no way this would break Zorua, who is still super frail
- Adds a second typing to a mono-Dark Pokemon
- Flavorwise, the popular concept of a ghost often includes shapeshifting
For luring examples, consider the following:
- Comes out as Croagunk, hits a Psychic-type with super effective Dark/Ghost STAB
- Comes out as Ferroseed, actually hits something
- Comes out as Aipom, hits Ghost-type with super effective Dark STAB
- Comes out as Porygon, hits Fighting-type with Ghost STAB or possibly tricking Specs
EDIT: Possible Moveset idea:
Zorua @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Night Daze
- Shadow Ball/Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Trick
EDIT AGAIN: actually Pawn resists because duh lol but yeah
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Great theorymon but pawniard resists and dark pulse over dazeI'd like to contribute Dark/Ghost Zorua
/With a whopping three immunities, Zorua can now make much better use of every feature it possesses. In terms of luring, Zorua can still lure Psychic attacks by disguising as a Poison-type. However, now Zorua can disguise itself as a Steel or Normal type, luring in Fighters to hit with STAB Shadow Ball or Extrasensory if Croagunk. It now has unresisted STAB coverage, but still sits at a very crowded 17 Speed tier. Adding a Ghost type increases Zorua's versatility, but its frailty and sparse movepool will always cut it short.
- Zorua sits at a lovely D rank.
- There's no way this would break Zorua, who is still super frail
- Adds a second typing to a mono-Dark Pokemon
- Flavorwise, the popular concept of a ghost often includes shapeshifting
For luring examples, consider the following:
Dark/Ghost Zorua would just be so much better and would actually give the cute lil fox somewhere to be in LC.
- Comes out as Croagunk, hits a Psychic-type with super effective Dark/Ghost STAB
- Comes out as Ferroseed, actually hits something
- Comes out as Aipom, hits Ghost-type with super effective Dark STAB
- Comes out as Porygon, hits Fighting-type with Ghost STAB or possibly tricking Specs
EDIT: Possible Moveset idea:
Zorua @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Night Daze
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Trick
They have HP Fight as coverage so pawn aint resistin that.
Also Daze is an Acc Drop, lets stick with Pulse which is a wee bit more accurate and has a flinch chance. also does the 5 BP from daze even matter?
With Specs, the 5 BP increase actually can do some pretty cool things to the rolls:
Pumpkaboo only goes down to a super roll Dark Pulse after rocks
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Dark Pulse vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 18-24 (72 - 96%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 24)
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Night Daze vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(20, 20, 20, 20, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 26)
If you have rocks, Slowpoke is a guaranteed OHKO with either attack, but...
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Dark Pulse vs. 116 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Slowpoke: 24-30 (88.8 - 111.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 30)
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Night Daze vs. 116 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Slowpoke: 26-32 (96.2 - 118.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
(26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 32)
You have a much better chance of breaking RestTalk Chinchou's rest cycle
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Dark Pulse vs. 76 HP / 148 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
(10, 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13)
200 SpA Choice Specs Zorua Night Daze vs. 76 HP / 148 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 12-15 (48 - 60%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15)
...and that's just a few of the nifty things a 5 BP increase does with Specs. In all these cases, the super roll number replaces about 3/4 of the regular roll numbers, the super roll number becomes two higher, and the mid roll is now the min roll. This allows Zorua to have a much better chance of O/2HKOing a lot of slow threats like these, and the +4 damage against Pumpkaboo is particularly helpful. Plus, Daze has a 40% chance to drop accuracy, which can be pretty fun. Whether or not this trade off is worth the 5% accuracy drop is up to whomever uses it I guess!
I can change it to Dark Pulse in the set if y'all want tho
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With specs daze definitely has a use, but its worth noting if your going a life orb or other such item route then they should generally do the same damage (they do the same for all the above mentioned calcs at least).
Also (I know thats just a sample set and its not really that important to the actual theorymon) wouldn't a coverage move be more useful than shadow ball, which despite stab has a tonne of overlap with dark. I'm thinking extrasensory for the many fighting types, or maybe U-turn since it is a choice set.
Haha, this already is bringing a lot of play to what zorua could potentially could do, I like it.
Also (I know thats just a sample set and its not really that important to the actual theorymon) wouldn't a coverage move be more useful than shadow ball, which despite stab has a tonne of overlap with dark. I'm thinking extrasensory for the many fighting types, or maybe U-turn since it is a choice set.
Haha, this already is bringing a lot of play to what zorua could potentially could do, I like it.
Extrasensory would do pretty well, esp. against Gunk but I've found from just using Zorua as it is that you basically hit either HP Fight or Daze/Pulse 95% of the time. I'll totally slash it tho
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Gale Wings buffed Zubat
Zubat's new stats: 45/55/45/55/45/50
+Currently sucks ass
+Typing is actually amazing
+Revolutionize Birdspam
+Decent support movepool, with Gale Wings letting it become a great utility mon
+Would check a substantial amount of Mons (Fightings, Grass types, Fairies)
+Priority Defog
+Flexible mon
-Still easily checkable
-Nasty Plot isn't devastating but still gud
-Not all that bulky without Evio
LC today is dominated by Fighting types, and Zubat has the potential to be a reliable offensive counter to them. Basically, I wanted to reinvent a D rank into a high-B to low-A threat that may actually shift the metagame away from its stale state. Zubat has a myriad of common resistances that give it set up pretty awesome opportunities, especially versus Spritzee, Timburr and Foongus. It would be an amazing Nssty Plot sweeper, and an astounding pivot. Gale Wings and the buffed (to average) stats make it both an offensive and defensive presence.
Plus it takes the piss out of Fizz's Nincada.
Zubat's new stats: 45/55/45/55/45/50
+Currently sucks ass
+Typing is actually amazing
+Revolutionize Birdspam
+Decent support movepool, with Gale Wings letting it become a great utility mon
+Would check a substantial amount of Mons (Fightings, Grass types, Fairies)
+Priority Defog
+Flexible mon
-Still easily checkable
-Nasty Plot isn't devastating but still gud
-Not all that bulky without Evio
LC today is dominated by Fighting types, and Zubat has the potential to be a reliable offensive counter to them. Basically, I wanted to reinvent a D rank into a high-B to low-A threat that may actually shift the metagame away from its stale state. Zubat has a myriad of common resistances that give it set up pretty awesome opportunities, especially versus Spritzee, Timburr and Foongus. It would be an amazing Nssty Plot sweeper, and an astounding pivot. Gale Wings and the buffed (to average) stats make it both an offensive and defensive presence.
Plus it takes the piss out of Fizz's Nincada.
No buffs.
The previous vote had a buff and you accepted it. :/
Things were decided on between the council.
Well sorry that you don't always get what you want and I didn't post but I deleted the posts saying you could. Read the OP.
I'm sorry but I couldn't hold myself from posting my opinion about what's going on here: to be honest I'm totally against having an exaggerating theorymoning with new ability and moves such as boo836 which is just silly and to a lesser extent Mambo's but I also don't like how buffed those Zubat's stats were, however I think a simple buff like apt's which was adding like only 3 points in Speed is totally fine and similar theorymoning submissions should be acceptable as GameFreak also buffed a bunch of stats in XY so it's a possible thing. So in my opinion a couple of changes that should occur on the rules are:
- Allow stats buff as long as you're not buffing more than one stat and you're not adding more than five points.
- Disallow having more than one addition in your submissions, for example you can only theorymon an ability or one move, not add a whole wide movepool and an ability and a new typing.
- Status