nonsense, there's always a way
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Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
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are people w
i get what you're trying to do but Mega Kanga is too far gone
You can manipulate OHKO moves because you choose to use them. You can NEVER manipulate crits because you can't force them to happen, unless you use items or abilities. You have a problem with OHKO Clause, then talk to the Council and request to have it unbanned. I promise you you'll be shot down instantly. But OHKO Clause keeps Pokemon as a SKILL-BASED GAME. This is one of the most asinine complaints I have ever seen.
The question isn't so much whether there's a way but whether the way prevents the game from being as interesting. In this case, the general consensus is that in order to stop Mega Kanga you have to devote too many team resources, making it less interesting to build teams. (Among other reasons)
The only way to fix MK is to kick it upstairs. Or somehow make Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and Garchomp not as wasted as they would have been with a better item.
Mega lucario has plenty of common checks and counters that don't have to rely on gimmicky sets
I think the biggest issue with Mega Kangaskhan is even if you kill him, your team is open to getting wrecked by whatever other sweepers you are packing. Lets say you sack a poke to get in a ghost that can burn him. If he manages to get any boosts before that point, he is going to kill at least one poke, and weaken the tanky ghost if not kill it as well before it goes down. Due to the nature of its moveset, it will always take down a poke or two at least even if you do everything right. If you pair him up with any other clean up physical sweeper that just needs its checks weakened to ruin a whole team (Moxie Mence or Moxie Dos come to mind) the game is pretty much a wrap. I know we try not to make comparisons with ubers, but if you play him like people played Rayquaza Salamence comps in gen 5, its super easy to walk through most teams.
I could list all of the other reasons that people have given as well, but thats my 2 cents. This guy needs to get out of OU.
I could list all of the other reasons that people have given as well, but thats my 2 cents. This guy needs to get out of OU.
Yea, sacrificing 3 Pokemon slots to stop one thing and then it's not even guaranteed that you will stop it. Wake up ;)!
So after Stealth Rock? Aegislash 2HKOs without it. So let's think about this using your calculations (forgive me about assuming the OHKO, that's my bad I'll admit that):
>Kangaskhan EQ: 38.8-46.2 damage.
>Weakness Policy triggers: +2 Attack
>Aegislash Sacred Sword
>Aegislash King's Shield
>EQ negated
>Kangaskhan EQ: same percentages
>Aegislash kills with Sacred Sword
That to me is how it would go down without switching, with an Adamant Aegislash. I don't know how to do those calculations and all that so I'm going by straight intuition. But An Aegislash with upwards of at least 672 attack after a +2 in attack should 2HKO a Khan with only 236 defense, granted that both have 31 IVs in that stat and that Khan has the Jolly nature, that kind of stat difference looks to me like Khan is gonna go down the way I said. As someone mentioned before yeah Khan's team could switch him out, but that's not what checks and counters deal with. They are about toe to toe matches. Like if it were down to the last two pokemon. I think Kangaskhan would need some defense investment.
When did I say that the Sucker Punch would connect? All I said is that it would become a game at that point. Like each player trying to guess when to use different coverage/boosting moves. I mean by all means you could just spam Sucker Punch, but then that gives Aegislash more time to boost. And I think the Khan player would realize that and use other moves too, which is what an Aegislash player keeps in mind and knows when is a better time to launch King's Shield. Yeah I know EQ doesn't make contact, but spamming EQ could go as I mentioned above.
By the way, Aldaron sucks and Haunter is awesome, so I'm adding a Poll to the OP (McMeghan also didn't mind).
Please give us your insight, and I ask that you answer the demographics questions as honestly as possible.
https://qtrial.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_diouyY94YqVOuRn
Please give us your insight, and I ask that you answer the demographics questions as honestly as possible.
https://qtrial.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_diouyY94YqVOuRn
Most people will use MK AND prepare for it if that's their most probable path to victory. This restricts things further.
That's not as gay as suggesting OHKO moves and hypnosis+dream eater as ways to deal with mk
Anyway, back on topic. The very fact that the only sure-fire counter we have, to a pokemon that can sweep 90% of current OU with little to no support, is sableye (which isn't even used) makes mk's existence in OU questionable by definition.
There is no need to consider that it can sweep teams with little effort, because that's how the best sweepers are supposed to work. What matters is how difficult it is to even check, much less hard counter, mk. Given that one of mg's ban conditions was that it had little to no counters (as nothing could actually switch in due to shadow tag), I'd say, like many others have, kangaskhanite should be banned.
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Its coverage moves do not get the Adaptability bonus unlike Parental Bond which works on all attacks. Also it is really frail, but you may argue that it centralizes the metagame by forcing offensive players to run bulky Mach Punch users that can withstand its priority attacks (which at 2+ are weaker than an Adamant Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch) or Landorus-T so it would not be set-up bait and can OHKO it with Earthquake.
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 342-405 (105.5 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OHKOed cleanly, even in Shield Form. And this Mega-Khan is Jolly. With prior damage, there's hardly any drawback to spamming Sucker Punch on Aegislash and zero drawback to spamming EQ. So your situation only works if Khan has no boosts, in which case, it can switch out.
On the topic of it actually being bulky, this is quite cool as well:
252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 319-376 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 318-375 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Basically the most powerful neutral unboosted Physical attack in the game and the most powerful neutral unboosted Special attack in OU is incapable of OHKO-ing it more than half of the time. Then remember it has the destructive power greater than that of Deo-A.
I apologize if I get off as though I don't think Kangaskhanite should be banned. I just think it should be tested after Poke Bank and then a decision should be made. Aegislash wouldn't go down easy and I feel like it could go either way. But I mean I know that even if Aegislash fainted Khan all the time I know he still faints most things. But I feel as though he can be played around and as such he should be given until after Poke Bank. Plus, I feel personally that if I went up against a Kangaskhan-M I wouldn't tuck tail and just rage over it. He can be taken down and I have seen it happen fast.
The purpose of this survey is to make sure people are actually smart enough to comprehend how broken MegaKanga is. That is questionable given the very few number of quality points people are still arguing about 52 pages later.
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Lol...
252+ Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 283-333 (80.6 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(It doesn't get Download unless for whatever reason one puts some Special Defense EVs on it)
Yeah, if Khan gets to boost on someone else. But on a clean slate if they were both just sent out...I don't think Aegislash would go down that easy.
I nearly did a spittake when i saw the first post of page 52 address someone suggesting dream eater as an anti-kang measure
please, antiban guys. can we just stop this "LET'S SUGGEST WEIRD, RANDOM AND PROBABLY NON-VIABLE CRAP AS ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE BANNING OF KANGASKHANITE" because really, you guys are just going too far-fetched.
please, antiban guys. can we just stop this "LET'S SUGGEST WEIRD, RANDOM AND PROBABLY NON-VIABLE CRAP AS ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE BANNING OF KANGASKHANITE" because really, you guys are just going too far-fetched.
I have seen Aegislash get taken down by weaker EQs than what Kanga can produce. Add in Sucker Punch and it is game over.
Why is this still going? The outcome is clear.
That's not a very valid point. Being able to "take down" a pokemon doesn't make it ok. You can take down mega gar. If we keep him in he will continue to ruin and over centralize the meta, with the normally uncommon Rocky helmet, Sayble and Cofag appearing alot just to beat it. It needs Quick ban.
I am going to be a concern troll and sound cliche:
But what if someone argues:
First they came for Mega-Gengar, then they came for Mega-Kangaskhan Mega-Lucario, then Mega-Pinsir, Mega-Mawile, and Mega-Medicam but when they came from Mega-Blastoise no one spoke up.
I do not even know why I am reading this thread... it is going to be banned.
But what if someone argues:
First they came for Mega-Gengar, then they came for Mega-Kangaskhan Mega-Lucario, then Mega-Pinsir, Mega-Mawile, and Mega-Medicam but when they came from Mega-Blastoise no one spoke up.
I do not even know why I am reading this thread... it is going to be banned.
for the record, seismic toss 2HKOs everything with 377 health and under with leftovers, this also includes gliscor and his poison heal
stop with the slippery slope fallacy, all of you, the fact that mega kanga is broken has no effect on the fact that blaziken is broken, they're exclusive, independents things
stop it, it's not useful to argue and makes you look bad
stop with the slippery slope fallacy, all of you, the fact that mega kanga is broken has no effect on the fact that blaziken is broken, they're exclusive, independents things
stop it, it's not useful to argue and makes you look bad
I'd direct them to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
EDIT: This is actually probably more fitting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy
And I'd push for that to be put in the OP as mandatory reading before posting in this thread.
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