Other Heliolisk and Friends, # 1 Ladder Mix & Mega 1655

Rank 1 Screenshot

So the other night, I saw a Heliolisk named "thanks for the boost," so I killed it with Zygarde, naturally. And I said, "you're welcome." I was like, "like I'm going to use an electric move you fucking idiot." So my first encounter with Heliolisk was me just straight whooping it, some scrub with 1200 or something. Then I heard someone else complaining it was broken, and that all the teams were using it. All the teams certainly were not using it. Anyway, long story short, I looked into Heliolisk and realized it actually did something.


Sceptilite Heliolisk. Duh. If you guys haven't realized, she just shuts down half the metagame. It has a lot of checks and counters... hint hint.


Gyaradosite Nidoqueen. Toxic Spikes are good in this meta because the only common absorber is Gengar and there are no mega stones that add poison type. And more importantly, Toxic Spikes just kill everything when you have heliolisk.


Blue Orb Skarm. So I'm a counter-teamer, I play best when my opponent has no chance of winning. That's what I do. Skarm is a counter to every single pixie speeder which isn't currently banned. (thx for banning lucario). Skarm shuts down the thing that the vast majority of mix and mega teams have in place to deal with Heliolisk.


A threat I still hadn't dealt with yet was Weavile. I spent like an hour trying to come up with something. Red Orb Slowbro ended up being the best I could think of in time. It was shitty, it doesn't even resist dark.


Always slap Blissey on, it's easy street. Sablenite Blissey automatically checks almost every special attacker you haven't already handled, keeps your threats alive with wish, and deals with junk walls.


Glalite Weavile was my pick for the last slot. In emergencies I needed something to take out Pokemon that were too fast and powerful to handle otherwise. Weavile's ice type fake out is good with toxic spikes out because it's a strong fake out with nothing immune to it and other priority users can't outspeed it.


Slowbro sucked. as I said. I looked for something bulky with a fire move and a high special attack that resisted dark. Red Orb Hydreigon was amazing. It killed the crap out of everything, and walled Weaviles well. Red Orb Hydreigon should be considered a threat in mix and mega. The roost access lets it tank way better than Red Orb Heatran.


Weavile rarely did its job. In situations where I actually needed it, it was only saving me about half the time. In addition to that, I noticed one Pokemon that countered my entire team. Refresh Arceus Normal. Someone used that on me and my life was pretty much ruined. The team I'd been wrecking with had one colossal weakness. So I scoured smogon articles looking for the best counter, and tried my damnedest to come up with something on my own. Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn is only vaguely referenced in Arceus' Smogon article, but it's the best counter I can think of and it also does the job I needed Weavile for better.


Remember all that about Hydreigon ruling? Well, it's weak to low kick, so I looked for something similar to do the same job, but wall Weavile better. Enter Red Orb Togekiss. Better Bulk, better recovery, better typing. even the rare Poison Jab doesn't threaten it.




Now then, for the actual team!


Heliolisk @ Sceptilite
Stats: HP: 62 / Atk: 80 / Def: 62 / SpA: 149 / SpD: 94 / Spe: 134
Ability: Dry Skin
New Typing: Electric/Dragon
New Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Everyone says it's broken, few understand everything about it. Maybe I don't even understand everything about it. Electrify makes you immune to every offensive move (that doesn't have mold breaker), and any status move that targets you, that includes Defog and Roar. Protect is great, you'd think it's just extra, but that one turn of complete safety puts you to base 134 speed. Also, Protect has 16 PP to tack onto the 32 you have from electrify. You can bait target moves by revealing Protect, and if your opponent doesn't have 48 PP of non target moves, it's pretty much a guaranteed +6, or forced switch. Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse are just it's strongest STABS, nothing special, but they hit hard at +1.


Nidoqueen @ Gyaradosite
Stats: HP: 90 / Atk: 122 / Def: 117 / SpA: 85 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 76
Ability: Poison Point
New Typing: Poison/Dark
New Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Def
IVs: 0 Atk
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Roar
Pretty much the best Toxic Spiking option in the tier. Mold Breaker is a necessity for any serious hazard setter, so I was limited to Pokemon with good typing when combined with either Dragon or Dark. Oh, look, Poison/Dark. I weakness, the relatively uncommon Ground. Ground is uncommon in m&m, and if nothing else, everything that runs it pretty much gets shut down by Skarm. Most matches I end up leading with this puppy, she has a chance to set up toxic spikes on most of the game, including physical ground types. If I know my opponent has no spinner or defogger, I just sack her first turn to get the t spikes and call the match won. Roar on a mold breaker is fun, no one expects it, but they should. It gets rid of magic bounce calm minders (blissey manaphy and suicune usually). Another great thing about her is the mega mind game, keeping your ground typing leaves you with some extra resistances, but mega-ing gives you psychic (rare) immunity and better bulk. Toxic can put early pressure on flying types and things you just plain don't want to deal with later. Stealth Rock actually doesn't end up used often, it's a good way to PP stall/mind game opposing defoggers. Nidoqueen is a fucking blast and I'd like her added to the threats list in C-.


Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Stats: HP: 65 / Atk: 130 / Def: 140 / SpA: 70 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 70
Ability: Sturdy
New Typing: Steel/Flying(same)
New Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Iron Head
Skarm is irreplaceable, honestly, if your team is stall at all and you don't have Skarm, I'd be shocked if you made it past 1400. How do people without Skarm handle Extreminate spam? Oh well. roost is absolutely necessary even though she can get wish passed to, you need to roost to keep up pressure, if your walls are weakened in this tier, you're swept ( ;sadface; Primal Groudon). Brave Bird is run of the mill, basic garbage for picking off weakened Pokemon. Spikes are just there for when there's nothing better to do. The team doesn't really need spikes, they just limit your opponent's options in the long run. Iron Head is 100% absolutely good, not garbage. It's the safest way to take out Calm Mind Blisseys with only 1 layer of toxic spikes, and there are plenty of things in the tier weak to Steel (Zygarde).


Togekiss @ Red Orb
Stats: HP: 85 / Atk: 80 / Def: 115 / SpA: 170 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 80
Ability: Hustle
New Typing: Fairy/Fire
New Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- Thunder Wave
- Morning Sun
- Solar Beam
Togekiss occupies the most replaced slot on the team, so that makes her good right? Yeah, fuck yeah, it does. Honestly Togekiss counters Weavile harder than things should legally be allowed to counter things. Hate Weavile? Have an extra slot? run red orb Togekiss. But she's not just for countering Weavile, she's got all the phys bulk you need and a 75% recovery move. You heard that right, 75% recovery, it's not gimmick. The only way to lose the boost and go down to 25% recovery is for an opposing blue orb user to come in. Just kill the blue orb user with another Pokemon or something, shucks. Flamethrower hits like 6 trucks, no one is expecting to die when they see this thing (but they should). I constantly consider dropping solar beam for grass knot, but if you only use solar beam when you know it's safe (ie. the blue orb user is already out therefore can't switch, or there is no blue orb user.) you'll get serious mileage out of it. T-Wave is a safety move that lets you deal with things that are too fast, or when you just want to wait out a parahax for your health to be at full. The only real downside to Togekiss in my experience is the rocks weakness, rocks being rare, and you're still not going to find a better Weavile check. Add Red Orb to Togekiss' options in the threat list please :)


Blissey @ Sablenite
Stats: HP: 255 / Atk: 20 / Def: 60 / SpA: 95 / SpD: 185 / Spe: 25
Ability: Natural Cure
New Typing: Normal(same)
New Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
Sablenite is cool. Look at those stats. Heal Bell is necessary, plenty of things use 30% moves to get you status'd. Just deal with it and outwall them. Soft-Boiled and wish together are pretty much the best way to heal. The PP of them both is a huge help for stalling, but you also use them in different situations. Soft-Boiled is for serious threats you need to stall out. Wish is for things that do 25% or less, easy to handle, maybe even pass the wish. Honestly, I don't like Seismic Toss, but it's the safest single move. If people ran more 404 substitutes and ghost types, it would be garbage. If you want to use the team, you might try Ice Beam or Shadow Ball, depending on what annoys you most. I wouldn't use Hyper Voice, Gengar is the biggest stall war Blissey gets in.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Stats: HP: 74 / Atk: 94 / Def: 131 / SpA: 54 / SpD: 116 / Spe: 20
Ability: Iron Barbs
New Typing: Grass/Steel(same)
New Ability: Iron Barbs(same)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
Mainly here as an Arceus check, and death fodder. It's great to have a team that works well enough that one Pokemon is pretty much useless junk. If you get into a situation where you've put an opponent below 7/24 HP, and they only have contact moves, you can just send her in and leave them to switch out or die. Leech Seed keeps her and her friends alive when you actually need Ferrothorn, but I can't stress enough, you probably won't need Ferrothorn alive in many matches. Protect gives you extra turns of toxic stall on opponents who are too fast for Heliolisk. Power Whip and Gyro Ball keep it from being set up fodder and kill things, pretty basic stuff. If you run the team and don't care about the HUGE WEAKNESS TO ARCEUS W/ REFRESH, then replace Ferrothorn with something you actually like.

How to deal with this team:
With most teams that are prepared for the metagame, there's just nothing you can do against this team. If your team suffers from this problem. Fix it. Get something that threatens this team enough to break the core.

Weaknesses:

Mold Breaker Mons

Mold Breaker users tend to be lacking a few important moves. To deal with Heliolisk, you need Mold Breaker on a status inflicting move, Toxic, Whirlwind, Will-o-wisp, roar etc are your friends.


Set Up mons
Setting up is scary in this tier, there's so much priority. Don't set up every single match, but it's good to have a set up mon in your back pocket in case you run into this. +2 Nasty Plot Diancite Mew can sweep this entire team from turn 1.


Sceptilite users
Generally opposing Sceptilite users ruin Heliolisk's day. Notable threats include Jirachi and Milotic.


Thunder Bait
Red Orb Groudon and Victini have something great going for them, not only do they bait a Skarmory switch and quickly dispatch it with Thunder, they also wreck the rest of the team once Skarmory is out of the way, as long as you have anything at all to take out Heliolisk. Keep in mind, these Pokemon should be mixed.


Will-o-Wisp Altarianite Entei/Arcanine
These things are incredibly threatening. Will-o-Wisp hits through Heavy Rain, which basically turns the ultimate Extreminate counter (skarm) into junk. With Skarm out of the way, these things have little trouble taking out the rest of the team alone.


Mewtwoite-X/Lopunnite Users
Make sure to use something fast enough to outspeed Heliolisk, if you're not going to rely on it to take out Heliolisk, but other than that, Lopunnite and Mewtwoite-X users wreck the team as long as they have something to hit Togekiss.


Banettite Breloom
This is just an honorable mention. It does wreck the team under proper circumstances, but it's hard to get to work, and if stone edge misses or the opponent gets a first turn wake up on Togekiss, it's over.

Notes:

Like the great Seto Kaiba, I like to have nice things and then make it impossible for anyone else to use them. I want either HELIOLISK BANNED because of this, or everyone to know how to counter Heliolisk because of this. No one else deserves fun but me. So everyone spam this team until everyone hates it. We only have a few days.

If you do use this team, please link your opponent to the RMT after the match. Also, don't take the names seriously, I named them after toys for small children because it's such an easy team to use.

Importable:
Tinker Toys (Heliolisk) @ Sceptilite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect

Play Dough (Nidoqueen) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Roar

Lincoln Logs (Skarmory) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Iron Head

EZ Bake (Togekiss) @ Red Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Thunder Wave
- Morning Sun
- Solar Beam

Legos (Blissey) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish

Jacks (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
 
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You have a really well made team there. Like you, I'm a counter-teamer. When I build my teams I focus on making my team able to counter as much prevalent Pokemon and strategies as I can. The only thing holding me back from winning a battle should be the decisions I make while playing it.

It took me a long amount of time to make a team I was confident about in Mix and Mega (as it does in every other metagame). I have a really good win/loss ratio with it. As I was laddering I faced a guy who had a Blissey/Hippowdon core. I lost to him as my team couldn't break through it. I needed something for that so I replaced my Starmie with a Keldeo. Simple fix. I did well with that, but then I ran into your team. Which i couldn't break though because of your motherfucking Red Orb Togekiss. I never knew somebody other than me would have the genius idea to use a Red Orb on Togekiss. When the month was over I was planning on making the case myself as to why Red Orb Togekiss should be put on the threat list, but you got to it first. I'm honored to have given the top ranker in Mix and Mega the idea to run morning sun on it though.

We agreed to a match after I altered my team up, but I'm still thinking about it how to be prepared for your team while still being prepared for all the other threatening stuff in this metagame. Anyways congrats on rank #1 and to making a good ass team.
 
Togekiss is so good. Seriously tho, it's way underrated. Anyways, as for the team, I think stall is a very underrated threat in MnM. Largely because it is limited enough in mega stone options that on the surface it seems very one dimensional. However, with a little creativity, it is actually really hard to beat. For example, togekiss is just overall nasty to fight, but most people overlook it. However, the team is not with out its weaknesses. For example, if pidgeotite thundy gets in and heliolisk is gone, it basically rips your team apart (Also, now that heliolisk is gone, it is a lot easier). It's also pretty weak to diancite stuff in general, as they can typically outspeed heliolisk and destroy it. But overall this was a solid team that demonstrated the effectiveness of MnM stall.
 

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