Updated with Alexwolf's changes.
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Heatran [QC 3/4]
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
- Start date
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
After discussing it with the QC team, we'd like the Specially Defensive set to look like this:
Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Lava Plume
move 2: Protect
move 3: Earth Power / Roar
move 4: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Set Details: Taunt
Earth Power and Roar should be interchangeable in the third slot to give each player a method of dealing with incoming opposing Heatran. The last slot should be reserved for utility moves.
Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Lava Plume
move 2: Protect
move 3: Earth Power / Roar
move 4: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Set Details: Taunt
Earth Power and Roar should be interchangeable in the third slot to give each player a method of dealing with incoming opposing Heatran. The last slot should be reserved for utility moves.
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Uh, I really don't know if I like Earth Power being the main slash. I mean it's only use is mainly for opposing Heatran, and I feel that Roar offers so much more utility in being able to phaze dangerous threats like Volcarona and Talonflame. I dunno, I just feel that you should have a more more reliable counter for other Heatran.
As for Stealth Rock, I'm not sure I agree with that being the main slash either. Heatran is beat by the two most common spinners and Toxic in general beats nearly any Heatran switch in. I agree with Stealth Rock being slashed, but only if you can't find room for it on your team.
As for Stealth Rock, I'm not sure I agree with that being the main slash either. Heatran is beat by the two most common spinners and Toxic in general beats nearly any Heatran switch in. I agree with Stealth Rock being slashed, but only if you can't find room for it on your team.
Agreeing that Earth Power should be secondary to Roar. It prevents Heatran from being complete setup bait, especially considering Talonflame can SD or Bulk Up in its face without it. Earth Power is really only for other Heatran (which really comes down to a Speed tie anyway, so I don't get the point there), and doesn't provide much of anything in the way of team support. It could definitely be useful for teams that need to lure in and KO Heatran, but I don't think that's enough for a primary slash.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
I am fine with your comments, as PK and I were wavering on where Earth Power and Stealth Rock should be slashed. Would you be ok with switching Roar and Earth Power in slot three, and moving Stealth Rock to the last slash in slot four?
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100% yes, this sounds great to me
edit: updated with super mario bros changes.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
This is really minor, but do the 8 Speed EVs do anything specific? I think they should be moved to Defense.
Uh, iirc QC doesn't like speed creeping, so ya I'll just chuck them into Def
yea agreeing with Jukain. Fire Blast is stronger than Magma Storm, and has a better chance at hitting, while all Magma Storm has going for it is the ability to trap something for a few turns, which is nice, ill grant you, but not as effective with a Specs Tran that can potentially just 2KO you if it predicts correctly.
removed magma storm
Okay so on Choice Specs I think Dragon Pulse is worth a slash for one reason: Goodra.
Seriously, Goodra is a total pain in the ass for Heatran. Dragon Pulse 3HKOes 248/8 AV Goodra (2HKO after SR + 1 layer of Spikes !_!). That's better than any other move can do, and because Goodra is such a big obstacle for Heatran it's definitely worth a last slot mention. Your current last slot is HP Ice / Flamethrower. Neither of the two is super important. Dragon Pulse is an immense help against your best counter.
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You don't even mention the word 'trap' anywhere on the trapper set. I guess it's bullet point wording, but if you're not emphasizing the whole 'trap shit', then the set analysis for the trapper set is missing the point. What specifically does it trap? Make a list so that the reader knows what the hell they're using the set to handle. What's Taunt for? Yeah, it shuts down the walls, but be specific: Heatran is immune to Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. The big thing is that Taunt stops walls from healing. You have to imprint that fact in the reader's mind, because that's its big purpose on the set. It means you can wear down the opposing walls way more efficiently. It's also your big stop to Leech Seed Mega Venusaur, which can't otherwise touch you.
I'd also mention the Magma Storm buff up to 12.5% damage per turn. That's significant, meaning you wear down stuff way faster.
Seriously, Goodra is a total pain in the ass for Heatran. Dragon Pulse 3HKOes 248/8 AV Goodra (2HKO after SR + 1 layer of Spikes !_!). That's better than any other move can do, and because Goodra is such a big obstacle for Heatran it's definitely worth a last slot mention. Your current last slot is HP Ice / Flamethrower. Neither of the two is super important. Dragon Pulse is an immense help against your best counter.
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You don't even mention the word 'trap' anywhere on the trapper set. I guess it's bullet point wording, but if you're not emphasizing the whole 'trap shit', then the set analysis for the trapper set is missing the point. What specifically does it trap? Make a list so that the reader knows what the hell they're using the set to handle. What's Taunt for? Yeah, it shuts down the walls, but be specific: Heatran is immune to Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. The big thing is that Taunt stops walls from healing. You have to imprint that fact in the reader's mind, because that's its big purpose on the set. It means you can wear down the opposing walls way more efficiently. It's also your big stop to Leech Seed Mega Venusaur, which can't otherwise touch you.
I'd also mention the Magma Storm buff up to 12.5% damage per turn. That's significant, meaning you wear down stuff way faster.
Ok seriously what is up with this? Can you explain because honestly I use SR Heatran and I find it to be an excellent hazard setter and I don't even need it to have Stealth Rock, I just have it there because I can (I have Stealth Rock on another Pokemon as well).
If you are going to keep this really expand upon this.
I actually run a set of Lava Plume / Protect / Toxic / Stealth Rock, I don't really need Roar or Earth Power.
Well, the basic point is that no Pokemon wants to run Stealth Rock. Heatran would rather run Roar. Landorus-T would rather run Knock Off or Stone Edge. Skarmory would rather run Spikes. Even Deoxys-S, if for whatever reason absolutely didn't have to run Stealth Rock, would rather run Fire Punch or something. The bottom line is, by deciding to give a Pokemon Stealth Rock, you're making a sacrifice to your team by taking away one of the options of that Pokemon, seeing as there's no Stealth Rock user in OU that couldn't do anything with an extra moveslot.
So if you want to run Stealth Rock, you have to evaluate your team and decide "which Pokemon would suffer the least from having Stealth Rock?" In some cases, the choice is easy, and in some cases the choice is hard. For example, if you have to choose between putting Stealth Rock on Lead Deoxys-S vs. putting Stealth Rock on Excadrill, the choice is pretty easy. Whereas Deoxys-S is practically made for the job, Excadrill would much rather carry some sort of coverage move instead, and that explains why Stealth Rock is the primary option on Lead Deoxys-S, considering it's pretty much guaranteed to be the best user of it on any team.
In this case, though, Heatran is not necessarily going to be the best choice for a Stealth Rock user on the team. It's unwise to pressure the reader to make Heatran carry Stealth Rock when it has an arguably much more viable option in Roar. However, should the rest of the team be incapable of carrying Stealth Rock OR should the rest of the team simply not be as fit for Stealth Rock setting (e.g. Landorus-I, Scarf Jirachi), then slashing Stealth Rock after Protect lets the reader know that Stealth Rock is viable if Heatran just so happens to be the best choice for the team's needs.
tl;dr: I'm not saying that Heatran is a bad Stealth Rock user. But it would rather run Roar if it could.
Princess, I plan on expanding once this is has it's first 2 QC checks, but it's only in bullet point form atm.
As for Jukain's suggestions I'll update once I have access to a computer
As for Jukain's suggestions I'll update once I have access to a computer
the thing that really irks me about that statement CyclicCompound is that heatran IS often the sr setter. it doesn't matter what would be optimal in an optimal world; the fact that heatran so often runs sr for the team because it has room for it makes it a good move for the set.
I'm not saying it's not a bad move, but Heatran becomes a much, much more effective wall with Roar.
The point I was trying to make was that I don't think Stealth Rock should be the first slash, regardless of how often Heatran runs Stealth Rock, because Roar is too good of a move to be second. My apologies if my long-winded retort sounded like I was saying Stealth Rock is a bad move on Heatran, but I simply think it shouldn't be the main slash on a set with so much defensive potential.
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Small input, but I have been liking Sub + SR + Roar on SpD Heatran. Sub is nice for scouting and scaring things that would otherwise be a pain (like Lando-T if it gets in for free). What's nice is that I also run 32 spe to sub before Mega Venusaur can leech seed or sleep powder me (primarily leech seed from bulky variants) and the EQ variants are always slower than you anyway. Just my input, SubTran as a whole is pretty nifty, IMO, since you can check Mega Mawile better (not like anyone uses it nowadays) and you cannot be as easily checked by things like Landorus (it's especially hilarious to burn one that EQs your sub). Timid ones can handle Bisharp more easily (lets you bypass the sucker punch) and Mega Charizard (Y does not appreciate a Sun-Boosted Fire Blast, X hates Earth Power).
One question: why use timid nature on scarf set? Only thing notable you're outspeeding is Jolteon and stuff. (aerodactyl doesn't give dookie to this, if they use jolly, which they SHOULD be) And depending on an adamant aerodactyl mega, which, in the first place is rarely seen, doesn't really seem like a consideration. Therefore, I believe MODEST should be the main nature, becauase it grants heatran a power boost.
Unless a Modest nature nets you specific KOs, it's not worth running. By using a Modest nature, you're missing out on outspeeding +1 Adamant Dragonite and Excadrill, two very relevant and dangerous threats that this set is great at checking.
i'd like to suggest an alternate slashing for sdef (agreed on by me/alexwolf/smb):
move 1: Lava Plume
move 2: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Roar / Taunt
move 4: Stealth Rock / Protect / Earth Power
plume is mandatory. then you want a status: toxic or wisp, toxic usually because it's so good and plume can burn anyways. then you need a move to stop setup: roar to phaze to stop sweeps as needed, or taunt so you can 1v1 take on boosters (especially like last mon crocune) and defensive pokemon. protect is protect, but isn't mandatory. sr is slashed first in the last slot because tran is an amazing sr setter and where sr is usually put. epower is just coverage.
mention that protect can be used over roar too, and the last 2 slots are interchangeable in general. sr/protect + epower, for example. just not roar + taunt.
mention sub in moves. mention balloon in set details (with roar) for pinsir and zard x, with wish support from already-mentioned clefable, and chansey. mention venu in team options (this isn't under bulky grasses?). venutran is the standard stall combo and an amazing defensive core.
scarf before specs.
oo a sub attacker set. we're thinking about making it (sub / toxic / flamethrower or fire blast / epower) a main set, but at least do that for now.
oo stone edge.
move 1: Lava Plume
move 2: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Roar / Taunt
move 4: Stealth Rock / Protect / Earth Power
plume is mandatory. then you want a status: toxic or wisp, toxic usually because it's so good and plume can burn anyways. then you need a move to stop setup: roar to phaze to stop sweeps as needed, or taunt so you can 1v1 take on boosters (especially like last mon crocune) and defensive pokemon. protect is protect, but isn't mandatory. sr is slashed first in the last slot because tran is an amazing sr setter and where sr is usually put. epower is just coverage.
mention that protect can be used over roar too, and the last 2 slots are interchangeable in general. sr/protect + epower, for example. just not roar + taunt.
mention sub in moves. mention balloon in set details (with roar) for pinsir and zard x, with wish support from already-mentioned clefable, and chansey. mention venu in team options (this isn't under bulky grasses?). venutran is the standard stall combo and an amazing defensive core.
scarf before specs.
oo a sub attacker set. we're thinking about making it (sub / toxic / flamethrower or fire blast / epower) a main set, but at least do that for now.
oo stone edge.
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