Pokémon Guzzlord

[KingJigglypuff]

I really want to try getting a mixed physical set to work, but I'm kind of a newcomer to the meta (at the most, I just lurk), so I'm not sure if I know what I'm talking about.

Guzzlord @ Expert Belt/Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest (if you really want)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 8 SpA / 124 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dragon Rush/Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Poison Jab/Earthquake
- Fire Blast

With this set, I wanted to utilize its average offenses while trying to patch up its awful defenses. Even with just 8 EVs into Sp. Atk, it can still OHKO the likes of Scizor (unless it's running Sp. Def investment). You can always take the EVs away from defenses and put them into Sp. Atk if you really want to guarantee that OHKO against Sp. Def Scizor.

Items are a mixed bag. Expert Belt to further super effective damage (guaranteed OHKO against Sp. Def Scizor with 8 Sp. Atk EVs). Life Orb for more consistent damage, but at the cost of self damage. Leftovers for a bit of recovery, and Assault Vest can turn a few Special OHKOs into 2HKOs. Just don't put it against a Fairy.

A few Assault Vest calcs for example's sake.

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Without Assault Vest: 252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Guzzlord: 507-595 (86.3 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Guzzlord: 733-866 (124.8 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Guzzlord: 751-889 (127.9 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Guzzlord: 578-682 (98.4 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Salamence-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Guzzlord: 546-644 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

With Assault Vest: 252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 335-398 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 491-580 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 507-595 (86.3 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 386-456 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Salamence-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 366-432 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The mixed bulk EVs even help it on the defensive side.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 463-549 (78.8 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This would have been a 75% OHKO without the Def investment).

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 234-276 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(This would have been a 98.8% 2HKO without the Def investment).

I might just go with this set, but I'd like other thoughts on it before I go to catch my Guzzlord.

 

[Lolrider]

No moves are restricted, or "greyed out", unless restricted by the opponent (by things such as Disable, Taunt, and Cursed Body). You can still select Belch and it should work if you eat your berry midturn if you predict correctly. If you don't eat your berry Belch does nothing then.

Belch might be worth considering, in that case. Granted, only if the berries are a competitive alternative to something like Leftovers or Assault Vest, but it might be possible that you might get more mileage with a berry and a powerful attack.

Maybe I should do calcs, I might be getting excited for nothing.

KingJigglypuff the math seems solid re:Assault Vest. However, there's a good chance that these numbers will change as the meta establishes itself, as these EV spreads are meant to prevent specific OHKOs, so if there's a need to run more SpD than you'll potentially need to run more SpA as a reply.

Some other potentially relevant calcs. These are just OU threats, though, so these may or may not be worth considering if Guzzlord ends up in UU or lower.

*Expert Belt runs lower, Life Orb runs higher, etc. I only posted what I thought was relevant/significant*

8 SpA Expert Belt Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 360-427 (104.9 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

8 SpA Life Orb Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor-Mega: 333-395 (97 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

8 SpA Life Orb Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 218-257 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

8 SpA Expert Belt Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 250-295 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Life Orb Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 270-320 (99.6 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

8 SpA Expert Belt Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 288-341 (81.8 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Life Orb Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 312-369 (88.6 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

8 SpA Life Orb Guzzlord Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you run with hazards, you can get OHKOs with flamethrower, which is more reliable. Personally I think better safe than sorry in most cases, especially against set-up sweepers like Scizor, which I only mention because you talked about it specifically. Still, I don't see any significant reason why your set won't work.

Are there any specific physical attacks that you are looking at, because if not you might consider putting points in SpD or SpA to make the numbers more favorable.

44 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 302-356 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 316-374 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm probably missing something significant, which is why I ask if you have anything in mind. You might be able to get away with running a more fragile set. I'm also a relative newcomer to contributing, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[viol and bass]

I was thinking about the move Stomping Tantrum and the fact that it might have use on Z-move sets that use status base moves that "fail" when the z-move activates, making Stomping Tantrum 150 BP for the following turn. That might be worthwhile as a one-off lure sort of move where it probably won't need to be used more than once. I haven't theorized beyond this but I was thinking that Guzzlord would probably be the best user of such a set, if it's viable at all. Just a thought.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

-snip

If you really want to keep the current bulk, alongside increasing Sp. Atk, you can always slightly compromise a bit of Atk if you need to.

My two physical calcs were for Garchomp and Talonflame, though here's a few physical UU examples.

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252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 229-271 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Would have been an 82.4% 2HKO without Def investment)

252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 411-486 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Would have been a 6.4% OHKO without Def investment)

252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 464-548 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Would have been a 75% OHKO without Def investment)

252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 220-260 (37.4 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Would have been a 41% 2HKO without Def investment. Though a Choice Banded set can still 2HKO regardless)

252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 231-273 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Would have been a 89.1% 2HKO without Def investment)

The only Pokemon in UU (that I had the time to run calcs on) who don't care about this Def investment would be Conkeldurr (Feraligatr, Haxorus, Banded Krookodile, Heracross, and Gyarados as well), as the popular Assault Vest set 2HKOs with Drain Punch, despite my EV investment (it's still a 2HKO even with maximum Def investment). It does soften the blow against its Mach Punch, however.

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Sheer Force Feraligatr also doesn't care about the Def investment (Ice Punch 2HKOs, regardless of Def investment)

Haxorus' Outrage OHKOs, no matter how much Def you run.

Banded Krookodile Earthquake 2HKOs, regardless of my Def investment, but it does get a 21.5% 2HKO with max Def investment.

Heracross is kinda different. Close Combat 8.2% OHKOs with my investment (clean OHKO without), but turns into a 2HKO with maximum Def investment

Gyarados is a different story. Ice Fang and Bounce don't care for my Def investment, but with maximum Def investment, Gyarados' Ice Fang and Bounce turn into a 4HKO (3HKO without).

Though just posting calcs isn't enough. This set would actually have to be tested, but I'm not sure if I'm up to par with it, as again, I'm rather new to the meta, so I wouldn't want my results to be based around ignorance. Not to mention, while it can take these hits, can it hit its attackers right back? The answer for the most part depends on the attacker. If an attacker can 3HKO it, then Guzzlord has a better chance, but if Guzzlord doesn't OHKO (or cripple/force a switch) a 2HKO threat, then it's done for.

 

[Lolrider]

Though just posting calcs isn't enough. This set would actually have to be tested, but I'm not sure if I'm up to par with it, as again, I'm rather new to the meta, so I wouldn't want my results to be based around ignorance. Not to mention, while it can take these hits, can it hit its attackers right back? The answer for the most part depends on the attacker. If an attacker can 3HKO it, then Guzzlord has a better chance, but if Guzzlord doesn't OHKO (or cripple/force a switch) a 2HKO threat, then it's done for.

That's a good point. I was looking at a Belch set myself, but even a 120 poison move with Modest/+252 SpA can't OHKO the Tapus (except for Bulu b/c its 4x effective). It feels like Guzzlord just straight lacks the bases to be a relevant attacker--special or physical--without relying on boosts or setups, and it lacks the obvious recovery to be a tank, despite his huge healthpool.

Guzzlord is a puzzle. It's really good in obvious ways, but also really bad in obvious ways; figuring out how to use it properly is a challenge. However, I'm still not convinced that he can't be a legitimate contender, even if only as a wall.

Speaking of, Z-Stockpile completely regenerates health, giving him recovery without using swallow. Max HP + Stockpile would give him pretty solid bulk, with Z-Stockpile to recover any damage taken while setting up. Maybe. This also needs calcs.

 

[zachmac]

I'm thinking about trying out a team where I use Guzzlord as sort of a fairy lure. Its so slow it'll have to nail them on switch in, but if I can get my opponent to expect a Draco Meteor then use Heavy Slam or Sludge Wave on the switch it could potentially support a dragon dancer or something who wants to go wild with Outrage.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 SpA / 104 SpD
Brave Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Heavy Slam
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast

I really wanted to make this set more "mixed" then it is, but it is what it is. Of course EVs and nature can be tweaked and whatnot, but the current set up allows it to OHKO offensive Tapu Lele on the swap in with Heavy Slam. Sludge Wave does more damage to Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, and Azumarill than Poison Jab does. Doesn't OHKO them, unfortunately, but it does take out a ton of health. Fire Blast nails steel type switch ins. I threw the rest of the EVs into special defense and slapped on an assault vest just because I figured it'd be easier to focus on special defense then try to be a defensively mixed tank, but I haven't really tested it yet and I'm not entirely sure what sort of things you'd want to swap it into. But its fire and water resistances can't hurt, right?

This thing has the advantage of being able to nail every potential switch in with something. There is not a single fairy, OU or elsewhere, that isn't weak to steel, poison, or fire. I guess (Mega) Garchomp can do something similar, but I don't think fairies like Diance or Magearna will be as willing to swap into a Chomper as they would a Guzzler.

 

[Lolrider]

So, running some calcs, Guzzlord really doesn't want to do anything if there are fairies alive on the enemy team. As someone mentioned earlier, a x4 weakness is so much more damaging now that there are more relevant fairies in the game. At this point, it's looking like fairies might be one of the more dominant types, what with the Tapus running around in OU, plus things like Mimikyu and A-Ninetails, combined with the other fairy threats from ORAS and XY.

Huge Power Azumaril, unboosted, OHKOs Guzzlord even through Roseli berry and Relaxed nature, which is just obnoxious. Same deal with Tapu Lele, Mega Gardevoir, etc. So, even with a berry specifically meant to reduce Fairy type damage, Guzzlord just lacks the sheer bulk to survive a STAB Fairy attack without boosts. Assault Vest does not remedy this problem. However, for what it's worth, Roseli berry Guzzlord can live a Moonblast from Tapu Lele at +2 SpD. Small Victories.

And while Beast Boost will still give him Atk boosts, for all intents and purposes, I don't think Guzzlord can really serve as a bulky sweeper while fairies are still up. Probably obvious to a lot of you, but I wanted to get hard numbers first.

I feel like, once you remove fairies from the equation, and factor in its immunity to Psychic, Guzzlord works better with SpD than it does with Def. Either that, or it has to go hard into offense.

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252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Guzzlord: 232-274 (72.2 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 239-283 (74.4 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 281-330 (87.5 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

I'm sure there are more relevant calcs to be made, but from the few that I did just now, SpD Guzzlord seemed to tank special attacks much better than Def Guzzlord took physical attacks. Similarly, as people have said in the thread before, Guzzlord seems to lack the offensive statistics to OHKO a majority of the pokes in the metagame, even with significant investment. My own calcs seem to corroborate this as well, but I might be missing something important. Pardon the sheer number of options, but my proposed set--if you can even call it that--is something like this:

Cheeseburger/Guzzlord @ Leftovers / Assault Vest / Aguav Berry / Roseli Berry / Normalium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Sassy
- Stockpile / Protect / Toxic / Belch / Stomping Tantrum / EQ / Heavy Slam
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
- Payback
- Heavy Slam / Poison Jab / Steamroller / EQ / Toxic / Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb / Protect

Explanations, sorry for the essay.

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So, a lot of variants here, most of the movepool is going to change depending on what item you want to run. Leftovers gives Guzzlord passive recovery, pairs well with a Protect/Toxic set, allows you do deal passive damage and nullify some threats (if you can live the hit or predict the switch). Assault Vest is fairly straightforward, gives you the +1 to SpD that Guzzlord needs to live some special attacks, but you can't run a more passive set in exchange. Aguav Berry is the bitter variant that restores 50% HP when reduced to under 25% HP; when used successfully can grant Guzzlord a lot more "bulk" than it would have otherwise. Same deal with the Roseli Berry, although less ideal since you probably don't want to be in with Fairies when possible. Normalium Z should only be taken with Stockpile, imo, as it provides a one time full heal; similar to Aguav Berry but requires a different play style.

The EVs are not optimized at all, I just went for maximum bulk. You could probably shave some points off of SpD and still live some attacks at +1 through either Stockpile or Assault Vest, but from what I've seen so far Guzzlord usually manages to 2HKO most pokes with appropriate move choice and/or hazards/status. Additionally, even when uninvested, Beast Boost will still grant +Atk.

Moves are where most of the work goes in, and there's a few that pair well together, but you can kind of take whatever you want. Payback is generally Guzzlord's strongest coverage move; it hits a pretty significant number of pokes for at least neutral damage, and it does equal to Heavy Slam's max power when not resisted. It's just generally more consistent and Guzzlord will almost always be moving last, with few exceptions, guaranteeing the bonus damage.

Dragon Tail/Claw is Guzzlord's other STAB coverage. Dragon generally doesn't serve a whole lot of purpose for SE attacks, since the only thing it attacks SE is other dragons, but there are definitely circumstances where that can be handy. For that reason, I would recommend Dragon Tail, since you can use it to rack up consistent damage by just constantly phasing out incoming pokes, and it doesn't do a huge amount less damage than Claw, as well as not punishing Guzzlord, because generally it's going to be moving last anyway. Also prevents pokes from setting up in Guzzlord's face, which I expect would be a problem.

The last two moves are generally going to depend on what item you use. If you are going for the Aguav or Roseli Berry, I highly suggest running Belch. It does a lot of damage even without SpA investment, and can punish pokes that would otherwise resist it's other coverage, specifically things like Mega-Venusaur or bulkier/weaker Fairies.

In the top slot, if you run Assault Vest you will have to run four attacking moves, so either Stomping Tantrum or EQ would work. Both provide the same coverage, but for different situations.

As Fizz mentioned, Stomping Tantrum could be quite useful, again for punishing steel or fairy. At least, I think so. If you want to run Stomping Tantrum, I would recommend running it with Toxic, as Toxic provides another way of activating its bonus damage, and deals with steel types pretty well. However, EQ is more consistent, and would do more damage over two turns than Stomping Tantrum would. I would probably choose EQ over ST, but if you are a bad predictor, ST is going to provide more bang for you buck, especially if you can't live multiple hits.

Protect is good for checking coverage, as well as wearing down opponents through recoil, Life Orb, and status. Plus, when combined with Leftovers, can provide safer recovery. Protect + Stockpile and Protect + Toxic are also decent sets. Protect/Toxic allows you to abuse protect more effectively, and is probably the more consistent of the two, but Protect/Stockpile has it's own benefits. I generally don't like Swallow, because it trades stats for recovery, but there are situations in which Swallow will work well, especially against burned or paralyzed pokes, as they won't be able to punish an unboosted Guzzlord as well as they would otherwise.

Like Belch, Poison Jab, Sludge Wave, and Sludge Bomb provide grass and fairy coverage. Grass in particular can be somewhat tricky. Sludge Wave/Bomb both generally do more damage than Poison Jab, but don't benefit from the +Atk boosts that Beast Boost provides. I'd choose either Poison Jab or Sludge Bomb over Sludge Wave, as the drop of 5 power provided a additive 20% chance to poison, which might justify dropping Toxic and running a different move in the slot. All three moves should activate Stomping Tantrum's bonus damage against Steel types as well, assuming I'm correct with how Stomping Tantrum actually works. Obviously, if you're already running Belch, you don't need to run more Poison attacks.

Heavy Slam is probably the safest bet, as Steel hits ice and fairy types for SE damage, and takes advantage of Guzzlord huge weight as well. Steamroller is just another coverage move, and can punish grass and poison types.

EQ, Heavy Slam, Payback, and Steamroller/Dragon Tail/Dragon Claw provide near perfect coverage, as well as some overlap, making predicting switches quite a bit easier. EQ, Poison Jab/Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb/Belch, Payback, and Dragon Tail/Claw also provide similar levels of coverage. Generally, I'd take either Heavy Slam or poison coverage, but not both. Dragon coverage is probably going to be safer than Bug coverage, since Guzzlord is immune to Psychic damage anyway, and Grass shouldn't be a huge threat, as well as gaining STAB bonuses.

tl;dr this "set" provides Guzzlord with good coverage and utility, depending on how you choose to build it, as well as benefiting from +Atk boosts should you manage to KO something. Guzzlord actually has a lot of options, but it needs a good team around it.

It benefits extremely strongly from hazards, as that allows D-Tail spam to be more effective, as well as lowering the amount of damage Guzzlord needs to do to KO something and boost. Toxic spikes somewhat nullify some of Guzzlord's potential with this set, but Guzzlord can potentially pair well with a Venoshock user, as well as T-Wave and Burn status setters, as those give Guzzlord some more leeway to set up and/or sweep, if possible.

All in all, I think Guzzlord probably works best as something like an Amoongus or an Arcanine. It especially likes coming in on choice users locked into Psychic moves, as it can soak the hit and then set-up or predict the switch, while also providing an opportunity to phase out anything that might want to boost in its face. Guzzlord will probably do better against tankier teams, rather than hyper-offense teams, as tanks generally don't have the damage to immediately threaten Guzzlord, but with minimum speed Guzzlord will still be slower than even most tanks.

*I will update this with relevant calcs when I get the opportunity. The set can almost certainly be better optimized*

 

[Camara]

Even without investment I'm pretty sure Draco Meteor hits harder than Dragon Claw.

Calcs:
252+ Atk Guzzlord Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 121-144 (35.4 - 42.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 136-162 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course Dragon Tail gives utility other than power. I think Guzzlord is best with a mixed set and a hit and run tactic, you ain't surviving much in the Fairypocalipse

Guzzlord @ Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Nature: Brave
- Draco Meteor
- Crunch / Payback
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast

Use Crunch / Payback as your main attack, dark is a good spamming type. Heavy Slam is a pretty reliable 120 BP move giving its 888 kg and it's good for the predicted Fairy switch in.
Draco Meteor catches physical walls off guard and gives pretty much the same damage as Crunch even uninvested. I don't think Guzzlord will stay many turns in a row anyway thanks to the pink demons, but the Sp. Attack Drop doesn't affect Crunch/Heavy Slam. However some points can be put in Sp Attack to KO other dragons.
Fire Blast hits steels, specially OU staples like Scizor and Ferrothorn. I don't think Sludge Wave is worthwhile uninvested giving that you already have Heavy Slam.

 

[Lolrider]

Even without investment I'm pretty sure Draco Meteor hits harder than Dragon Claw.

Calcs:
252+ Atk Guzzlord Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 121-144 (35.4 - 42.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 136-162 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course Dragon Tail gives utility other than power. I think Guzzlord is best with a mixed set and a hit and run tactic, you ain't surviving much in the Fairypocalipse

Yeah, I suggested Claw just in case I wanted more power, but I think probably 99 times out of a 100 I would run Dragon Tail. Dragon Tail just gives a greater possibility of sweeping, imo, just because you can keep phasing out bad match ups. If you get lucky, combined with status/hazards, you'd be able to wear down enough pokemon that KOing one of them wouldn't be that unlikely. You'd probably have to use him as a more of a hit and run mon anyway, though, for the most part.

Granted, being able to boost with a more offensive set is also a (probably greater) possibility, but it feels less self-sufficient? Somehow?? lol idk anymore. I basically just shoved like 3 different sets into one.

*Edit* Actually, considering how many things OHKO this guy, you might be able to run Focus Sash?

 

[SL the Pyro]

I'm thinking about trying out a team where I use Guzzlord as sort of a fairy lure. Its so slow it'll have to nail them on switch in, but if I can get my opponent to expect a Draco Meteor then use Heavy Slam or Sludge Wave on the switch it could potentially support a dragon dancer or something who wants to go wild with Outrage.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 SpA / 104 SpD
Brave Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Heavy Slam
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast

I really wanted to make this set more "mixed" then it is, but it is what it is. Of course EVs and nature can be tweaked and whatnot, but the current set up allows it to OHKO offensive Tapu Lele on the swap in with Heavy Slam. Sludge Wave does more damage to Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, and Azumarill than Poison Jab does. Doesn't OHKO them, unfortunately, but it does take out a ton of health. Fire Blast nails steel type switch ins. I threw the rest of the EVs into special defense and slapped on an assault vest just because I figured it'd be easier to focus on special defense then try to be a defensively mixed tank, but I haven't really tested it yet and I'm not entirely sure what sort of things you'd want to swap it into. But its fire and water resistances can't hurt, right?

This thing has the advantage of being able to nail every potential switch in with something. There is not a single fairy, OU or elsewhere, that isn't weak to steel, poison, or fire. I guess (Mega) Garchomp can do something similar, but I don't think fairies like Diance or Magearna will be as willing to swap into a Chomper as they would a Guzzler.

That stat spread sticks in my craw because of Beast Boost. It would only apply more power to Attack that way, leaving the Special movepool to rot. If Heavy Slam is mostly for coverage purposes, it probably doesn't need the boost as badly as the other three moves do.

That being said, I completely agree with Guzzlord being used to bait and punish switch-ins, because its movepool has an answer for every glaring weakness it has. The catch is that the stats need to be optimized for Beast Boost while also giving it some sort of defensive presence in case it's caught off-guard.

...I might have an idea.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 120 Atk / 252 Def / 124 SpA / 12 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave

calcs

120 Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 248-294 (87.9 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Guzzlord: 496-584 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 468-551 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 212-250 (75.1 - 88.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The key here is passive damage. You're almost certainly not going to be leading with Guzzlord since the things it baits are likely the first thing the opponent will send out, so instead you can have a teammate(s) harass with rocks/spikes/poison, then after Guzzlord gets a good switch-in, drop it in and slam the incoming counter with an SE move for an instant Beast Boost. There's just enough points in offense to reliably take down the common Tapu threats: Tapu Lele dies to Heavy Slam on switch-in after Stealth Rock, Tapu Bulu can't OHKO if Guzzlord is at full health and otherwise dies in one hit to Sludge Wave, and LO Tapu Koko can't OHKO without a SpA investment and is consumed by its own Life Orb if it tries. With good hit-and-run tactics and copious use of tick damage, Guzzlord can take down threats that the opponent wouldn't expect it to and heavily derail their strategy. And of course, there's always Trick Room if you want to turn Guzzlord's speed from a con to a pro.

 

[Lolrider]

So, it sounds like the consensus here is that Guzzlord can only be effective if its being annoying as heck.

 

[zachmac]

That stat spread sticks in my craw because of Beast Boost. It would only apply more power to Attack that way, leaving the Special movepool to rot. If Heavy Slam is mostly for coverage purposes, it probably doesn't need the boost as badly as the other three moves do.

Honestly, I don't give a heck about Guzzlord's Beast Boost. It's a great ability on the likes of Kartana and Xurkitree, who actually have half-decent to good speed, but Guzzlord isn't really going to be sweeping through anything. On the other hand, the quiet nature set up you made is probably is a lot better than mine because it'll be mostly throwing out special attacks anyway.

 

[SL the Pyro]

So, it sounds like the consensus here is that Guzzlord can only be effective if its being annoying as heck.

Pretty much this. Guzzlord is a trap: a halfway-decent defensive investment lets it laugh off anything that isn't SE while it throws out perfect coverage using moves that routinely score 2HKOs, so unless the opponent's 'Mon has something meant for covering Dark or Dragon, that damage is going to add up. Once they realize this, they'll try to switch in something more effective, and that's when you glance at their team composition and fire an SE move at the most likely counterpick. Whether you keep Guzzlord in or not depends on if it got a Beast Boost and/or what 'Mons the opponent has left.

If all else fails, you can always throw it in front of a recoil attack.

 

[Lolrider]

Pretty much this. Guzzlord is a trap: a halfway-decent defensive investment lets it laugh off anything that isn't SE while it throws out perfect coverage using moves that routinely score 2HKOs, so unless the opponent's 'Mon has something meant for covering Dark or Dragon, that damage is going to add up. Once they realize this, they'll try to switch in something more effective, and that's when you glance at their team composition and fire an SE move at the most likely counterpick. Whether you keep Guzzlord in or not depends on if it got a Beast Boost and/or what 'Mons the opponent has left.

If all else fails, you can always throw it in front of a recoil attack.

It'll be nice to see this stuff in practice. If it ends up in UU or something I can see it becoming quite a bit more meta, if only because there aren't so many super strong fairies running around.

 

[zachmac]

Using it as a lure hasn't been as successful as I had hoped. It might just be that I'm still in the lower part of the ladder or something, but a lot of players haven't been so quick to swap in their fairies on this thing, even when they are forced to swap out. I thought they'd be expecting powerful dragon stab left and right, but apparently not. Maybe I should drop a few warning Draco Meteors first.

 

[/B/utterfree]

I almost feel like Guzzlord is made with Stockpile in mind as a primary move, since its base HP is fantastic and it gets set-up opportunities out of a few 'mons defensively. It running Payback as a move also seems to be something that could combo into Stockpile. I remember doing a Stockpile set with Gastrodon in Gen IV Ubers, and it pretty much laughed straight to the bank at most things barring Toxic status and Shaymin-S, so I've jumped to the conclusion of Guzzlord wanting to run Stockpile specifically from those memories I'm having.

 

[Lolrider]

I almost feel like Guzzlord is made with Stockpile in mind as a primary move, since its base HP is fantastic and it gets set-up opportunities out of a few 'mons defensively. It running Payback as a move also seems to be something that could combo into Stockpile. I remember doing a Stockpile set with Gastrodon in Gen IV Ubers, and it pretty much laughed straight to the bank at most things barring Toxic status and Shaymin-S, so I've jumped to the conclusion of Guzzlord wanting to run Stockpile specifically from those memories I'm having.

I'd agree, but unfortunately Guzzlord seems to lack the bulk or offensive statistics to survive long enough to set up, at least according to the calcs that I've done in the thread. He gets OHKO'd by too many things, needing multiple stockpiles to survive relatively standard threats even with maximum investment, and honestly you're just not going to get multiple turns to set up. Then, even if you do get the ideal scenario, there's not a whole lot that Guzzlord can OHKO, and it lacks recovery to sustain itself.

Like I mentioned earlier, though, if this things gets knocked out of OU, there might be a bit more room for it in, say, the UU metagame, or NU, etc. Fairies are a pretty big detriment outright, but I think Guzzlord would be able to do actually quite a lot of work with a Stockpile set when faced with significantly weaker offenses, since it'd actually be able to survive multiple hits and OHKO in turn. Potentially.

Using it as a lure hasn't been as successful as I had hoped. It might just be that I'm still in the lower part of the ladder or something, but a lot of players haven't been so quick to swap in their fairies on this thing, even when they are forced to swap out. I thought they'd be expecting powerful dragon stab left and right, but apparently not. Maybe I should drop a few warning Draco Meteors first.

If there are fairies on the team, I'd probably just wait until they were dealt with before sending Guzzlord out, except in a few situations. That way you don't even have to predict.

 

[zachmac]

If there are fairies on the team, I'd probably just wait until they were dealt with before sending Guzzlord out, except in a few situations. That way you don't even have to predict.

But the primary reason I'm using Guzzlord is as a lure. If it's not KOing fairies, it's not doing its job and is just the waste of a team slot.

But as I said, I might just be that the players I've been fighting were playing sub-optimally, or I've been too impatient, or both. I'll give that team another try this weekend.

 

[Lolrider]

But the primary reason I'm using Guzzlord is as a lure. If it's not KOing fairies, it's not doing its job and is just the waste of a team slot.

But as I said, I might just be that the players I've been fighting were playing sub-optimally, or I've been too impatient, or both. I'll give that team another try this weekend.

I honestly expect Guzzlord to end up in UU, although it's kind of pointless to speculate at the moment.

Regardless, I think expecting to predict correctly every time is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Functionally, you might as well be rolling the dice. Like, yeah, some pokes are more likely to switch in over others, but you don't really know anything for sure. As a lure, even if you Draco a fairy, you've put momentum in your favor, somewhat, by forcing them to switch in the first place.

I'd say just look at OHKOing a fairy on switch in as a happy accident, or best-possible scenario, rather than the expected result. If you get lucky, you get lucky, but either way you are using Guzzlord effectively just by making your opponent think harder about their decisions, or second guess themselves. Damage that you do earlier in the match is damage you don't have to do later, etc. etc. There's nothing wrong with making the conservative choice and using a move that hits everything for moderate damage, rather than going with a move that only hits one thing for SE damage.

Likewise, I imagine certain teams are going to try and switch-in on Guzzlord more than others, so even from comp to comp opponents are going to deal with it separately. Learning how certain types of teams tend to deal with Guzzlord, or which teams don't have a huge check for it, is probably going to be part of the learning curve.

*Edit: Guzzlord actually is in UU, so... cool.

 

[zachmac]

Heh, it's funny that after all these years of competitive Mons, the closest to a dedicated lure I've ever actually used was a Zoroark. I'm usually pretty good at playing conservatively and getting predictions correct, but I guess having the idea of it being a "lure" has completely gotten to my head.

But anyway, that's enough about me. I'll get back to Guzzlord itself.

I think a lure set might work better if it ran Substitute, but then it'd run into fourth moveslot syndrome problem where I'd have to sacrifice a STAB or a coverage option.

...But that syndrome can sometimes be overcome with team support. I've got a Magnezone on my team, who can handle the steel-fairies. And since I won't be using an assault vest, I'll have to figure out a new EV spread. I don't know which defense I should focus on, if I even should focus on just one. With the metagame as messy as it is now, I guess I'll just try the old EV spread and make adjustments as I go.

 

[Lolrider]

Heh, it's funny that after all these years of competitive Mons, the closest to a dedicated lure I've ever actually used was a Zoroark. I'm usually pretty good at playing conservatively and getting predictions correct, but I guess having the idea of it being a "lure" has completely gotten to my head.

But anyway, that's enough about me. I'll get back to Guzzlord itself.

I think a lure set might work better if it ran Substitute, but then it'd run into fourth moveslot syndrome problem where I'd have to sacrifice a STAB or a coverage option.

...But that syndrome can sometimes be overcome with team support. I've got a Magnezone on my team, who can handle the steel-fairies. And since I won't be using an assault vest, I'll have to figure out a new EV spread. I don't know which defense I should focus on, if I even should focus on just one. With the metagame as messy as it is now, I guess I'll just try the old EV spread and make adjustments as I go.

Well, the good thing is that now that Guzzlord appears to be pretty firmly entrenched in UU, we have a lot more leeway with how to build it. The main concern before was that so many things killed Guzzlord outright, but that might not be an issue anymore. At least, I expect Guzzlord's innate bulkiness to be more relevant in this tier than it would be in OU. The problem now is trying to figure out what the new UU meta is going to look like, but we can adjust as we go, like you said.

I wouldn't bet on still being able to live raw fairy STAB, especially with things like Sylveon and Gardevoir running around, but beyond those I think Guzzlord should be fairly powerful.

Hide

252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 548-648 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Guzzlord Payback (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 330-390 (121.3 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 153-180 (23.5 - 27.6%) -- 83.3% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Guzzlord Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 236-282 (90.4 - 108%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Blastoise-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 310-366 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Celebi Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 308-364 (47.3 - 56%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Guzzlord Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 218-260 (63.9 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Guzzlord: 288-338 (44.3 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 195-229 (55.5 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. Assault Vest 252 HP / 0 Def Guzzlord: 550-660 (84.6 - 101.5%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 255-301 (105.8 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Obviously, it's not realistic to have 252 Def and 252 SpD in the same set, but I guess I just want to point out that Guzzlord can potentially live a lot of relevant threats in UU, as opposed to OU. Stockpile might actually be relevant in this tier, as opposed to just pointlessly spinning wheels. Its still going to be hamstrung by it's lack of recovery, but worth noting.

 

[chachingboy1]

Hey guys, I just made an account to share a set I came up with. This is a fairly flexible set that uses Stomping Tantrum. This may not be the most effective set, but I've had a lot of fun and success with it.

Guzzlord @Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Attack, throw the rest in whatever defense you want.
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Rush
Iron Tail/Crunch/Heavy Slam
Stone Edge
Stomping Tantrum

Crunch can be used instead of Iron Tail if you want a Dark type STAB, but Iron Tail is nice for the Rock types and Fairy types switching in. Plus, it's lower accuracy to take advantage of Stomping Tantrum. If you want reliable damage you could go with Heavy Slam, but this set is very much risk and reward. Stone Edge is a powerful option for incoming Flying types if your opponent catches on to your set and predicts the Stomping Tantrum. Trick Room works very well with this Guzzlord set, but it's not needed.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Hey guys, I just made an account to share a set I came up with. This is a fairly flexible set that uses Stomping Tantrum. This may not be the most effective set, but I've had a lot of fun and success with it.

Guzzlord @Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Attack, throw the rest in whatever defense you want.
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Rush
Iron Tail/Crunch/Heavy Slam
Stone Edge
Stomping Tantrum

Crunch can be used instead of Iron Tail if you want a Dark type STAB, but Iron Tail is nice for the Rock types and Fairy types switching in. Plus, it's lower accuracy to take advantage of Stomping Tantrum. If you want reliable damage you could go with Heavy Slam, but this set is very much risk and reward. Stone Edge is a powerful option for incoming Flying types if your opponent catches on to your set and predicts the Stomping Tantrum. Trick Room works very well with this Guzzlord set, but it's not needed.

Does missing an attack count when it comes to boosting Stomping Tantrum? If it doesn't, you might be better using Toxic and Protect or maybe Substitute. Once you Toxic something, if your opponent switches when you try to stall with Protect, ST gets boosted. Alternatively, if go for Toxic again because you think the opponent will switch, but they stay in, ST gets boosted. Though I'm not sure Guzzlord is necessarily the best mon to take advantage of this. Maybe something like Mudsdale.
EDIT: Never mind, Mudsdale doesn't get Stomping Tantrum.

 

[chachingboy1]

Does missing an attack count when it comes to boosting Stomping Tantrum? If it doesn't, you might be better using Toxic and Protect or maybe Substitute. Once you Toxic something, if your opponent switches when you try to stall with Protect, ST gets boosted. Alternatively, if go for Toxic again because you think the opponent will switch, but they stay in, ST gets boosted. Though I'm not sure Guzzlord is necessarily the best mon to take advantage of this. Maybe something like Mudsdale.
EDIT: Never mind, Mudsdale doesn't get Stomping Tantrum.

As far as I know, if a move misses it boosts Stomping Tantrum. Whenever I used it, it seemed to be boosted. And by seemed to be boosted I mean a lot of OHKOs.

 

[Lolrider]

As far as I know, if a move misses it boosts Stomping Tantrum. Whenever I used it, it seemed to be boosted. And by seemed to be boosted I mean a lot of OHKOs.

You can also run poison coverage to proc the added damage on Stomping Tantrum against steel types