Guide to 5th Gen Rain Article (WIP)

[ginganinja]

Thanks Briguy 52 for the team you posted. Unfortunately this guide is written more with the standard ladder in mind (ie no Lightning rod Zapdos) which is a shmae I guess. Anyway I have actually managed to create a few solid Rain Stall teams so now that I understand how they work/play and how effective they can be, everyone can rest easy Rain Stall will make the Article.

Still typing this up tho

 

[Rakan]

Honestly full on Rain Stall is difficult to pull off, but with at least one major sweeper, it serves as the extra punch to serve in a pinch (lol). A lot of stall teams have at least one major sweeper in case stall doesn´t turn out to work. It might be important to mention this fact.

 

[Briguy_52]

The general strategy is to stall out/ weaken the major threats to your set-up sweepers before going on the offensive and sweeping what's left.

 

[ginganinja]

Honestly full on Rain Stall is difficult to pull off, but with at least one major sweeper, it serves as the extra punch to serve in a pinch (lol). A lot of stall teams have at least one major sweeper in case stall doesn´t turn out to work. It might be important to mention this fact.

While this is party true its not a firm rule so im not intending to push the point. The initial problem for Rain Stall teams is that they often lack such a sweeper due to the Drizzle + Swift Swim ban. Some Stall teams have Excadrill (which incidently acts as a revenge killer + Spinner more so that a sweeper) but Drizzle teams rather lack the bunch. In tests something like Tornados is pretty successful but I prefer to go for the bulky offence root and use something like CM + Roar Latias to clean up. Basically its hard enough to fit everything on a stall team, running a major sweeper limits your options even further.

While im posting Swift Swim + Drizzle and Swift Swim abusers section is fully done. If you think there is a good swift swimmer out there that I missed then feel free to let me know, please defend your choice tho

EDIT also please look over my List of Rain abusers (now in the OP). I went back over it and found out that I missed something as obvious as Tentacruel and sometimes some fresh eyes help in this case. If I missed something that has to be there or deserves a mention please do bring it to my attention and I will add it in.

EDIT2 Also feel free to look over the list of threats to Rain teams. Think I got everything but might have missed something obvious.

 

[ginganinja]

Right seeing as im the OP of this thread im double posting to "bump" this. With the suspect testing no longer in limbo I can actually being more serious work on this (I had hiold off initially as I was unsure of the possibility of a Drizzle ban (which negates 90% of the article) or Thundurus (which directly affects Zapdos and a host of other things on a Rain team).

Also seeing as I now have all the abusers up I actually want a bit more of the communitys imput on this. Seriously now is the time for everyone to say, why is'nt X here, or "you forgot X as a counter" or "this thing here is an error" etc etc. What I don't want (but seems to happen in every article) is this going through GP or about to get uploaded AND THEN people nitpick stuff. It wastes both my time and (more importantly) the time of the GP checkers who then have to GP check again if I add something. So please, if you have anything to suggest/offer please say it now or over the next few weeks rather than when its to late.

Example teams while be up shortly (although if anyone was an excellent offensive Rain team that does not use Thundurus (as it might be banned) that would be happy for it to go in the Article then please, feel free to get in touch. You will get credit for it in the Articel

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Well, should you want to use it, Fighting Recovery is in my sig. It's an offensive Rain team that doesn't use Thundurus.

 

[Vitalise]

Really effective guide, really helped. Keep up the good work. (i ranked in the top #50's with a rain team i made from this guide)

 

[New World Order]

This article needs moar Gastrodon, under the rain and after a Storm Drain boost, Gastrodon actually hits decently hard with Scald. Not to mention its a fantastic member of Rain because it keeps so many opposing rain threats in check. You don't want to lose just because you gave an opposing non weather team's Starmie a free buff do you?

Jellicent is an excellent member of rain stall, and like Gastrodon, should definately get a write up.

Cloyster's popularity is dwindling, but it still hits like a truck between Razor Shell, Icicle Spear, and Rock Blast.

Other pokemon you should consider (I mean, you put Lapras) are Empoleon and Slowbro. Empoleon checks Kingdra, who in my opinion bar none the biggest threat to rain. Having a Ferrothorn on every rain team doesn't give very much variety does it. Empoleon also does a decent job handling other rain threats such as Gastrodon and discourages opposing weather inducers from switching in. Slowbro needs more love period.

 

[ginganinja]

Gastro and Jellicent fine, Cloyster I guess since it enjoys having Rain to boost Shell Smash.

Lapras has a niche value in that it has access to Boosting move + Hydration. Empoleon im a little bit uncertain of. O.k it checks kingdra, great, however Ferrothorn checks Kingdra too. Also, why Kingdra might be the best possible threat to Rain its not commonly used enough for me to consider Empoleon. Empoleon just seems kinda "meh" when you factor in that Ferrothorn can do that job better, while still giving an electric resist.

Slowbro might need more love but I don't think the Rain Article is the place to do it. I just don't see what Slowbro brings to a Rain team other than "its STAB attacks get boosted" and pretty much every other water type can claim that. I think Slowbros biggest problem is on a Rain team, ideally, you want to keep your water types at a minimum to reduce the chances of something like Thundurus or Rotom W from blasting right through you. With this in mind, would you rather have Slowbro, or Gliscor who walls similar things, can stall with Sub + Protect, stallbreak with Taunt or threaten a sweep with Swords Dance. Gliscor also does a much better job against LO Admant Excadrill, (where as Slowbro gets OHKOed by a +2 EQ with a little prior damage) AND can lure out and dispose of Rotom W via its SD + Flight Gem + Acrobat set. To my mind, i will always take Gliscor over Slowbro, even on a Rain team.

EDIT

nvm Gastrodon is not getting a mention in the abusers section. It does not really "abuse rain" as well as others (yes lapras is on there but it actually has a niche value. Besides, it is more put on Rain teams for defensive purposes against opposing Rain teams . That said, it will get a mention in the Rain threatlist which I think is satisfactory.

 

[macle]

how is this going

 

[yee]

nvm Gastrodon is not getting a mention in the abusers section. It does not really "abuse rain" as well as others (yes lapras is on there but it actually has a niche value. Besides, it is more put on Rain teams for defensive purposes against opposing Rain teams . That said, it will get a mention in the Rain threatlist which I think is satisfactory.

Specs Gastrodon is a boss, in rain, it has a small shot of OHKOing max hp Mew after rocks and after a Storm Drain boost nothing can switch in. Even Blissey risk being 2HKOed if Gastrodon is running speed. It was one of the best sturdy cannons ever back when I used it because of its resistances and still usable special bulk.

 

[ginganinja]

how is this going

Its not far off being finished. Things im working on now are

-Proofreading the entire thing again, getting rid of all mentions of banned pokemon, maybe fine tuning a few things here and there.

- Hopefully Im adding M Dragons Team over the current Rain Stall team in there (trying to get permission first) as its one of the greatest Rain Stall teams around and its deserving being in this guide imo

- Also trying to find a solid Rain Offence team after the banning of Deoxys S, Thundurus etc etc. If all else fails ill use one of mine but I hate putting my own teams in someone like this cos I bet there are better teams out there

- Adding a conclusion

-Adding pictures before adding this to GP queue

So yeah basically in terms of content its almost finished (which is great since i was getting fed up editing and changing shit with all the bans), im just making it all perfect before GP gets a look at it.

I have not forgotten about this!

@ Yee

I never really liked Specs Gastrodon. It was slow as fuck and I just prefered Specs Jellicent which could like, actually outspeed stuff. I guess walling Rotom W is cool but that speed just really turned me off it. I'm still 50/50 over it so ill give it a retest and then see.

 

[CAPS alt]

Under 'threats' you have said that 'Politoed also has a rather large weakness to fighting, so a well timed Focus Blast from Politoed, can nail it...' I think you mean to say Tyranitar here.

 

[Nova]

Under Rain abusers I think Rainy Day Volcarona with Quiver Dance/Fire Blast/Bug Buzz/Hurricane deserves a mention. This may seem like an old choice but he is able to check a multitude of threats to rain teams such as Celebi and Tyranitar and even Ferrothorn who is OHKO'ed by a +1 Fire Blast in the rain. Being able to spam 100% accurate Hurricanes is just amazing. Also the weakness to stealth rocks is not as glaring of a weakness as most rain teams are already using Starmie, Tentacruel, or Forretress.

 

[ginganinja]

O.k I feel pretty disappointed in myself that I have to do this but I have been pretty badly ill over the past few weeks, and its gotten increasingly worse in the past week. Basically, I am opening this analysis up for someone else to finish / work on it, as I doubt that I can ensure a high degree of activity that is required to finish this analysis.

Short List of what needs to be done

-M Dragons Rain Stall team needs to be put over the one currently in the analysis now that permission is given.

-Volcarona and Specs Gastrodon need to be added to the Rain abusers section

-New offensive Rain team needs to be added, was in the process of asking for BKCs permission to use it but someone else is going to have to push for that now.

-Analysis needs a decent proof read before being added to the GP Queue.

I think that's all and my apologies to everyone for not being able to finish this.

 

[Nexus]

k, whoever wants to see this through to completion with whatever needs to be added/changed according to ginganinja's post PM me and it's yours.

EDIT: Taken by Yee