Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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I actually really like the idea of these markers rotating out Pokemon that have reached difficult to impossible levels of obtainability (XD exclusives, 3rd Gen events). It's a nice parallel to the Pokemon TCG where very old cards are rotated out so newer players don't need to go and buy one particular super amazing card from a set back in 2003 or something. I just wish that old Pokemon that still fit the rules were still allowed. Incidentally this is also something the TCG does as well. I have my switches from Base Set, so I don't really need to get the ones from Roaring Skies. Similarly, I've got a perfectly good Gen 5 Garchomp with Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Protect. I'd prefer if I didn't have to breed it for a 3rd time if I want to compete in 2017 events!
I've been thinking that they want rotation in main game ever since we knew what the Pentagon actually meant.

For those Pokemon that are otherwise identical to something you can get in the current generation, I guess they could use checks like those in Showdown: a list of pokemon+move(and +ability) combinations that are impossible to obtain in the current generation. But "current generation-native" is a far easier thing to implement, and with Bottle Caps, getting penta or hexaflawless Pokemon while breeding will be far easier. Plus, your Chomp does not even have any egg moves in its set :P
 
Oranguru looks to be pretty awesome, but I can't help but feel Passimian is pretty disappointing design-wise. He is a lemur.
Pic
He is just a lemur wearing a hat.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Not sure why people are hyping Eevee when about the only scary thing it gets out of Extreme Evoboost is 220BP Stored Power - and I guess Baton Pass, but I imagine the move's infinitely many rule-based nerfs will transfer through to Gen 7.
People love Lethal Joke Characters. I don't see Eevee in OU unless it gets Extreme Speed, (and probably not even then) but it looks fun for whatever Lower Tier it ends up in, or the Battle Mansion. Psych Up on Eevee in Triples anyone? (I really hope that Z-Moves have Priority. >:D)

I just had a thought about how Eevee's Z-Move might play. Isn't it kind of like trading your Z-Move for a riskier version of a Second Mega?
 
Apparently the official Chinese name says it's a monkey, and Junichi Masuda is DIRECTLY involved in the Chinese names.
So basically. It is a monkey no matter how much it looks like a lemur.

EDIT: The Japanese name also says it's a monkey. So ... checkmate for you.
Not quite pal. The official translation is more akin to "simian" not monkey. Language is not 1 to 1 translations. We don't have every word Japan has and vice versa. So something like Simian and Monkey get jumbled in translation.

Also the names often sacrifice accuracy for the sake of puns. Barbaracle is a tube worm yet it is a pun of barnacle for the sake of the barbarian pun. Many other Pokemon have done the same thing.

Even characters in other media (like Squidward who is canonically an octopus) do the same thing with names.

So it's still Lemur.
 
Honestly where are all these calcs coming from? The game hasnt even been released...

So do we think Oranguru will be the better version exclusive? I imagine it will be great in doubles!
 
Honestly where are all these calcs coming from? The game hasnt even been released...

So do we think Oranguru will be the better version exclusive? I imagine it will be great in doubles!
Definitely. Although, I could foresee sending out Passimian in when you have a Medicham/Azumarill that's about to faint to get Huge/Pure Power being a viable option.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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Hissatsu no Pikachu > Catastropika
Nine Ball Burst > Extreme Evoboost

That is my comment on the most recent video. That and the new Amie thing looks p. cool
 
Well the rugby/ football monkey leak is pretty much confirmed at this point.

I almost feel as if the moon exclusive monkey is fan service to all those fakemon normal-psychic "celestial monkeys"

So glad about trainer customization coming back!!

Eevees z move is pretty much the secondary effect of ominous wind and ancient power, except it's guaranteed and increases everything by 2 stages. This could make it an absolute beast in little cup with baton pass. However, it's kind of strange that there are 8 eeveelutions shooting beams at eevee, but eevee only gets 5 stat boosts(albeit there only being 7 stats to raise anyways). As a side note,I wonder if the eeveelutions themselves can use that z-move.

Is there still Pokemon Amie, or has Refresh replaced it?
If it has replaced it, is that how sylveon will be obtained?

When is the next news update?
 
Passimian's animation is so smooth and brilliant that I love it, even if it has a fairly simple design.
If you look close, just as Passimian is about to attack, it throws/hides it's fruitball in its tail and, instead, throws a white energy ball at the opponent and then gets the ball back from its tail, creating the illusion of receiving a new ball from a teammate.
10/10.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Not quite pal. The official translation is more akin to "simian" not monkey. Language is not 1 to 1 translations. We don't have every word Japan has and vice versa. So something like Simian and Monkey get jumbled in translation.

Also the names often sacrifice accuracy for the sake of puns. Barbaracle is a tube worm yet it is a pun of barnacle for the sake of the barbarian pun. Many other Pokemon have done the same thing.

Even characters in other media (like Squidward who is canonically an octopus) do the same thing with names.

So it's still Lemur.
Strong willed kid, huh?
English names aren't supervised by Junichi Masuda so they are more freestyled / punny.
Junichi Masuda only supervises Chinese and Japanese names, so only these 2 languages have accurate names.
Neither Passimian's Japanese nor Chinese names are punny in the first place.

Also, Barbaracle is a goose barnacle, not a tubeworm.
 
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Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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POKEMON:
Lycanroc:
So now we have the bio on these guys let's take a closer look at them.
So they both remain pure Rock-type. Makes sense for Midday Form though a shame for Midnight Form, with its description being part Dark-type would have really gotten its point across.
Both have the Keen Eye Ability which is rather useless. Midday's other Ability is Sand Rush and you know how the speed doubling in weather Abilities work, it's going to be its main Ability (and that's on top of it already being said to be a fast Pokemon). Sadly Midnight Form gets the short end of the stick again with its other Ability being Vital Spirit (and it might prefer Keen Eye if only so it could use Rest). Hopefully Midnight gets a decent Hidden Ability, though with ways things are going Midday will probably get an even better Hidden Ability than it.
And it's confirmed their version exclusive, being the influence of the mascot Legendary's power that has them evolve to the different forms. For years now a version exclusive evolution has been thought up but never done, closest we got was Deoxys Formes in Gen III and some Mega Stones being available in one version in XY. Now this doesn't really make them any different from a normal version exclusive, you can still trade them, just that you got to evolve them before you do.
Accelerock sounds like it has potential being a priority Rock-type move (even if it just a Quick Attack copy, both are looking like physical attacker anyway). At least I hope both get it, Accelerock does seem made to match Midday Form. Seriously, Midday Form informs us of a new Rock-type priority move while Midnight has Counter which no one but Wobbuffet really uses. What did Midnight Form do to deserve such spite?
Midday is a loyal lone wolf who strikes with high speed while Midnight is an impish instigating werewolf who is a blood knight waiting to strike back. Despite that they will trust their trainer if stick with them, Midday moreso though Midnight just doesn't want to be told to go against its fighting instinct (like that'll affect anything in-game). I still like Midday's design better, true its just a wolf with a spiky mane but we have yet to have a plain wolf and the spiky mane separates it from a normal wolf. Midnight I've gotten used to but I just find it a bit too cartoony looking to be intimidated by it which I feel what they were trying to go for. Since I'm getting Moon it'll mean I would get the Midnight Form so I'll still give it a try (if anything because I'm feeling sorry for it).
While it sounds both are physical attackers, how they strike is different. Midday will be fast, Midnight will be slow (and possibly buff up its defenses to take a few hits). Midday seems to be setting up to be a sweeper, especially in a Sandstorm team, while Midnight might take on a more of a supporter role. Midnight sounds like it would also get Swagger, Taunt, and Sucker Punch (once again making it a shame its not part Dark-type).
Here's looking forward to seeing Midday in action and hoping Midnight finds some retribution.

Oranguru: Starting with the Moon exclusive primates because that's the version I'm getting. :P
And yet another part Normal-type Pokemon (that isn't part Flying). Drampa, Stufful family, Alolan Rattata family, and now Oranguru. However aside from flavor I wonder how Oranguru being part Psychic-type would affect the way it battles? Oranguru seems to be more built around the gimmick of its Signature Move and I don't really see it attacking, but that's for a later discussion.
Both of Oranguru's Ability are to work along with its Signature Move. Inner Focus prevents flinching while Telepathy allows it to avoid damage from allies attacks. Which one is used will depend on Oranguru's partner, if the partner uses a multiple targeting move the obvious choice will be Telepathy but if it doesn't then Inner Focus might not be a bad idea (though you still may want Telepathy just so you have the option to use it with a Pokemon with a multi-targeting move).
Quick mention of its version exclusivity and how it affects me, I can't really see me using it for the main game. It's very much meant for metagame, especially Double (and maybe even Triple) battles which there aren't a lot of in the main game. I'm even hesitant to say I'll give it a try if I do catch one, guess it'll all depend what I see of the stats.
Onto the main event! Instruct is Oranguru's Signature Move and better battlers than me are already creating highly destructive combinations. A bit like Encore and Parental Bond mixed together, Oranguru (or Smeargle) gives up its turn to let the target (most likely a partner), and I quote from the site, "use its most recent move again immediately". Now the wording of that is important, because it might answer a question about turn order concerning Instruct. Simply put, what happens if the target hadn't used a move yet? From that wording it sounds like, instead of failing, the Pokemon will just use the move it did last turn before getting to use the move it selected to do on this turn (though if its the first turn that Pokemon is out the move probably will just fail). That could possibly lead into more combinations as you could do two different moves on the same turn. However most of the time I think you'd want the same move used twice so that brings another question: could Instruct have a lower priority to assure most of the time the same move will be used twice? Or is normal priority and you'll be relying on Oranguru's probably low Speed (and Smeargle, though it has a Speed of 75 so if Oranguru can get below that it might keep its gimmick). I can see buffing or even nerfing moves. Imagine this with Quiver Dance, Shell Smash, or Geomancy? Or use it to set up Spikes faster. How about it in conjunction with Super Fang to remove 75% of your opponent's remaining HP each turn? If you're the gambling type, why not try seeing if that OHKO move has a better chance at working with two attempts?
Oranguru's design is alright, though a bit odd for an orangutan who is known for their brown-orange hair (then again I suppose Darmanitan took care of that aspect). It does very much look like an older orangutan who set up nests. Honestly its Oranguru's description which is more interesting. FUN FACT: Oranguru's nickname, "the people of the forest", actually comes from the origin of the word "orangutan" (you can read about it here if you're interested). Anyway it using human tools is what caught my eye. While probably more explains how it can use "Instruct", it reminds me of an Ability idea I had where a humanoid Pokemon can use a trainer item like a Potion or Battle Item if held in battle. There's been Signature Hidden Abilities before, could it maybe has such an Ability? Well at least its design takes into account it using items with it making the fans out of leaves and its own fur (a bit weird but hey material is scarce in the wild). Though I do wonder what in the world do they use Poke Balls for, like do they actually catch other Pokemon and command them?
Even if Instruct has lower priority I think Oranguru is going to be yet another slow Alolan Pokemon. Aside from that I really don't know where else its stats will be distributed, you'd think mostly in HP and defense but it is part Psychic-type so possibly high Special Attack? Though it does seem like a support Pokemon, with mentioning of its medical knowledge maybe it'll get Heal Bell, Healing Pulse, and Recover while it able to use items could lead to it getting Trick.
Oranguru is already looking like it'll have plenty of tricks up its sleeve and be quite a handful.

Passimian: SO... I think after this I'm going to take another look at that Chinese leak.
That's right, the rugby monkey is real. Or rather a rugby lemur, but they're all primates in the end. Now seeing it I don't think its as ridiculous as you first think of i, but still this is quite a ways out there. Like is rugby popular in Hawaii? There is a rugby union in Hawaii but it's part of the USA rugby union so not that different from other participating states. This sort of feels like a leftover from Gen V, like something the Linebacker in Big Stadium should have been using (and yes, I know the difference between American football and rugby, but the two sports are similar enough (American football sprung from the forming rugby when it was being formed from its Greco-Roman roots)). But here it is so let's discuss.
Pure Fighting, wouldn't expect anything less from an athlete of a rough sport. I would say I'm a bit surprised its not part Normal since its the Sun counterpart to Oranguru, though that would be stepping onto the Stuffel family's territory. Anyway give it Close Combat, Storm Throw, and Submission and its good to go.
Receiver is its Signature Ability where it gains the Ability of a fallen ally. Another Ability made for Double (and Triple) Battles, it seems like GameFreak are really pulling for the metagame this gen. I'm sure there's a batch of combos you can pull off with Receiver which can give Passimian several roles (Huge Power or Speed Boost for sweeping, Prankster for support, Type Changing Ability to get coverage, Arena Trap or Shadow Tag to trap, etc.. BUT they'll probably block some Abilities like Wonder Guard, Disguise, Multitype, Forecast, Parental Bond, and other Abilities which either won't make sense or would make it a bit broken).
Now seeing its design I'm more okay with it. They didn't overdesign it to make it look like its wearing clothes, it just looks like a lemur who used a big berry as a helmet and ball. I'm sure its description if filled with rugby references that I don't get (and no, even if it was full of American football references I still wouldn't get it. Not really into the rough and tumble sports). It does explain the leaf marks on its arm is meant to sort of be a logo, which makes me wonder if there will be multiple kind of marks or will it yet be another Pokemon who is said to have form differences but doesn't actually.
The boss puts the troop members through training to improve their coordination with one another and their skill in handling Berries. Apparently this training is so hard that some Passimian end up running away.
I can't help but feel this is a commentary on rugby team recruitment. Is rugby known for draft picks to switch off teams they don't like?
Passimian wants its Trainer to have the qualities of a leader as well. It watches a Trainer’s form closely when he or she throws Poke Balls, and will not listen to the orders of a Trainer with poor form.
Pfft, well fine! Stay in your Poke Ball which I threw good enough to catch YOU in. Though I can just now see in the anime someone catching one of these and Passimian constantly keeps coming out of its Poke Ball to correct its trainer's form. Maybe that's been Ash's problem throughout the years, poor Poke Ball throwing posture. Passimian will be the Pokemon to save the series.
Definitely high Attack and Defense, though not sure what else. I'm afraid everything else will be average which would stink as it would probably also like being fast, but I suppose that's where its Ability comes into play. It may not specialize at first but pass it an Ability and it'll make use out of it.

NEXT TIME: I'll talk about the Cool Features while watching through the video.
 
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Eevee banned from LC :v4:
Because that'll happen as opposed to just banning the Eevee Z-Crystal.

Is there still Pokemon Amie, or has Refresh replaced it?
If it has replaced it, is that how sylveon will be obtained?
Probably via Pokemon Refresh. It looks like they are keeping most of the stuff related to it, just changing it to more resemble grooming. Which seems kind of neat.

Pikachu315111 Oranguru using Pokeballs episode when? And Accelerock (ohh... Accelerate + rock. It took me too long to see that there's a rocking pun there.) is stated on the site to be exclusive to Midday form, so Midnight version looks to be getting the short end of the stick so far. And I never considered the idea of Oranguru outspeeding and causing a move from last turn to be used. Could lead to some interesting shenanigans where you can get around Wide Guard/Follow Me by using using a spread move one turn followed by Instruct + Single Target move in that case.
 
This trailer was kinda meh for me. Wasn't really super hyped about anything that was shown besides the fact that Instruct looks like an interesting move for doubles. I can only pray that they don't give any other pokemon busted stat boosting Z-moves like Eevee.
 
So I don't particularly care for this gen's starters, but damn, can we appreciate for a moment those dumb, cute faces the Pokemon make when you're feeding them? This has made Rowlet a lot cuter for me.

I love the Amie/Refresh feature.


Rowlet Refresh.png
 
Please let Kakashi have signature move. More on topic here I wonder what shenanigans could happen with Oranguru and Passimian on the same team. Maybe set a Furfrou up to die with Instruct, so Passimian can last longer
 
I haven´t commented yet, so here are my thoughts:

"Rugby monkey" got confirmed! That was the one thing that used to make me doubt the Chinese leak. Also, Sun has pre-mortem Harambe and Moon has post-mortem Harambe. I doubt you give a damn about their German names, but I think Passimian´s German name is vastly superior: Quartermak ("quarterback" + "macaque")! Oranguru´s already perfect name is ruined, though, into the clumsy "Kommandutan" (so instead of a guru it makes me think about some team captain giving instructions). The best move combos with Instruct have probably already been mentioned, but everyone suggests Telepathy as the best ability: Never underestimate Inner Focus in a metagame known for the excessive use of Fake Out. Oranguru + Inner Focus + Mental Herb guarantees your Instruct doesn´t get blocked.

I wanted to pick Moon because I liked Lunaala´s design better, but Rockruff´s Sun evolution seems so much more viable than Moon Moon - Sand Rush AND Priority Rock attack. Also, STABmons will have a field day with Accelerock.

Eevee´s Z-Move looks like the opening of a magical girl anime. I am already loathing all the online battles where someone sends their Eevee or Pikachu into battle and I have to watch that incredibly long Z-Move animation before I use Whirlwind or Earthquake.
 
The way they say that Lycanroc has forms and not formes alludes to me that they'll have the same base stats, which I think is interesting. Why Midnight Form isn't Dark though is very odd. Still want it though.
This would be weird because (as far as we currently know) there would be almost literally no reason to use Midnight form, since Midday gets Accelerock, which is looking to be a really good move. Midnight would need to have its own exclusive move to justify using it, if they really did have the same stats. I think that this is unlikely and they will be different.
Not only is it not playing Rugby, it's also not a monkey. It's a lemur .

I'm noticing people don't really know the difference between primates and just call the all monkeys.
Most people are using the phrase "rugby monkey" because that's how it was described in the leak, before we ever saw its appearance. The name sticks.
 
Most people are using the phrase "rugby monkey" because that's how it was described in the leak, before we ever saw its appearance. The name sticks.
And a lot of people not on these sites are taking that "nickname" as law. I'd rather end the misconception than continue to feed it. As one mature commenter said on another website discussing these Pokemon: "I would rather be corrected then not ever be told of my mistakes." The fact that people have been calling gorillas like Harambe and Winston "monkeys" makes it clear people really don't know there's a difference, and its not just a "name" that "stuck".

We shouldn't be talking about this anymore anyways. It's gone on for a couple of pages. And its not that important, and there's so much more to discuss.
 
I almost forgot the main reason that I was gonna post here. Am I mistaken about animations or did Magmar use Eruption in the Japanese video?

(@ 3m20s)
 
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