Everybody forgot about me *cries* (Shaymin Discussion)

[Seph]

Shaymin, the forgotten Hedgehog!!!!

Stats
HP:100/Attack:100/Defense:100/Sp attack:100/Sp Defense:100/Speed:100

Oh boy, did we forget about him. I can't even remember the last shaymin thread. A fine pokemon with base 100 stats across the board. But why isn't he talked about you might ask? His arch-nemesis, celebi has all of the glory. Let's look at attacks, shall we? Stab in bold.

Physical:
Return

That's pretty much it sadly.

Special:
Grass knot
Energy Ball
Psychic
Seed Flare
Giga Drain
Solarbeam
Hidden power

Well, that's not too impressive either. Seed flare (stab'd) is a unique move that does give him an edge over celebi and a lot of other pokes. Due to the mighty hedgehog's small special movepool, HP ice/fire/whatever will pretty much be standard, or forced upon him. (not that it's a bad thing)

Support:
Leech Seed
Aromatherapy
Grass Whistle
Toxic
Sunny Day
Protect
Rest
Swords dance
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Ok, so his support movepool isn't that large either. But look at the quality of some of those. Aromathereapy, leech seed, grass whistle, not bad, not bad at all. And for the fun part, movesets. (I dont take credit for movesets)

Shaymin @ leftovers/Large root
Timid Nature
Trait: Natural Cure
140 speed, 152 sp attack, 104 defense, 114 HP (EV"s need work)
~Leech seed
~Substitute
~Seed Flare
~Aromatherapy/Grass Whistle/Hidden power ice or fire

Sceptile isn't the only thing that can subseed. I gave him enough speed to outspeed the base 100's (mainly mence) The fourth move really depends on what your team needs most. I would use aromatherapy or Hidden power (depends on what your team is weak to) but if you already have blissey, infernape, and plenty of IB's, then by all means, use grass whistle. This set is very interesting and is another option rather than sceptile. You could also max HP for 101 HP subs.

Shaymin @ Lefties
Trait: Natural Cure
Nature: Modest
136 Speed, 252 sp attack, 122 HP
~Seed Flare
~Hidden power ice/fire
~Grass whistle/leech seed/synthesis
~Aromatherapy

Basic team support/special sweeper. WIth enough speed to outspeed adamant heracross, HP fire can dent the beetle/skarmory/metagross/whatever comes your way. Something like this will probably be the most commonly used set, but time will tell.


There are a couple things celebi gets over this. Calm mind and baton pass. While shaymin does not have those, it still can heal your team via aromatherapy and leech seed. What celebi doesn't have is a sleep move or a 120 base power move. I would rather this thread not become a celebi vs shaymin thread, so if you guys could try to keep on the subject of movesets, that would be great. But if you insist, feel free to expand upon this. Discuss.

 

[Seph]

Shaymin @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rest
- Psychic
- Seed Flare

Your moveset honestly makes no sense to me. I dont see why shaymin would ever use/need the Choice scarf. Rest seems pretty random. Sleep talk would be a lot better, but that doesn't change the fact that AS doesn't really do anything. I mean, in order to kill by surprise (choice scarf's main purpose) you need to be able to 1hko. I dont really think he is going to be 1hkoing very many things unless they take SE damage from seed flare.

 

[StrikeJP]

Celebi puts this thing to shame in so many ways I really dont even understand why Gamefreak even bothered wasting a slot on it when they could have gone with something a bit more original.

 

[gengod]

sry i meant choice specs/glasses

and rest is simple for healing with natural cure nothing more its still simply a waste of a pkmn

and y would shaymin ever use sleep talk with an abiility such as natural cure

 

[133tSneasel]

Why do I feel this will be un overused sceptile

Substitute
Leech Seed
Seed Flare / Giga Drain
HP: Ice or Electric

but I guess it could be like Celebi and use this set. But Celebi got recover, so it would be as good.

Swords Dance
Return
HP: Ghost
Synthesis

 

[Hrothgar]

Using Shaymin over Celebi has some merits, the most pertinent being that celebi has the single worst defensive typing in the game (ties with abomasnow/exeggutor with a whopping 7). Also, 4X weak to bug is going to suck in the somersault generation (I refuse to call that move U-Turn).

On the flipside, Recover is better than Synthesis, but the silver lining is that Shaymin can Seed Flare TTar to hell when it switches in. What really hurts Shaymin in my opinion is lack of Calm Mind. ><

UU? No freakin way. This is a good pokemon. I'd never use grasswhistle on anything, though. 55 accuracy, lol. I'll probably go with leech seed/aromatherapy/synthesis/seed flare.

 

[Seph]

Why do I feel this will be un overused sceptile

Substitute
Leech Seed
Seed Flare / Giga Drain
HP: Ice or Electric

but I guess it could be like Celebi and use this set. But Celebi got recover, so it would be as good.

Swords Dance
Return
HP: Ghost
Synthesis

HP ghost is special so he doesn't have that luxery. Shaymin is pathetic in the physical department.

 

[Hrothgar]

^All Hidden Powers are special now.

Oh never mind, I see it was just a typo. I think saying that "celebi would be just as good with this" isn't entirely accurate due to Shaymin's superior typing, though.

 

[gengod]

UU? No freakin way. This is a good pokemon

being UU doesnt mean bad but simply that it wont be used as much and cant do well in t he ou enviroment most of the time and tbh if shaymin's stats werent so high it cud have a place on UU teams replacing aromaplume but
i honestly think this things move pool is too lackluster to compete in ou ...........it'll be BL if such a tier remains after the meta has settled .......seriously this thing gets walled by like almost any grass type

 

[Misty]

The big points about Celebi vs Shaymin:

Celebi gets Recover, Calm Mind, Perish Song, and Baton Pass. Shaymin gets Synthesis and Seed Flare. Everything else is shared or irrelevant (aside from maybe Shaymin's Grasswhistle, if you like to take chances - Shaymin's defenses are sufficient to pull it off.)

Celebi's Psychic typing is quite a hinderance - more than anything, it's weak to Pursuit. Therefore, any set Shaymin does just as well as Celebi, it is more valuable on the basis of superior typing.

Looking over Celebi's sets, we ignore the Baton Passer and the Perish Songer. The Swords Dancer is a poor option for both Pokemon, so we ignore that too. This leaves Sheimi competing on support sets: Aromatherapy in particular. In this instance, Celebi's superiority comes in the form of Recover. While Sheimi gets Synthesis and Leech Seed to bolster its lifespan, it must be admitted that the inferiority is apparent. However, there is still some hope with the filler move: Sheimi's Seed Flare is far more potent than anything Celebi can muster unboosted. A smatter of special attack EVs will make Seed Flare a near 2hko on Garchomp, for instance.

I really wish Shaymin got Calm Mind - Seed Flare is a potent move combined with a good Hidden Power, but there's just no way to really abuse it without the help of Choice Specs, which just leaves you wide open to Blissey.

 

[Edux]

If Shaymin could learn Spikes (have you seen its back??, GameFreak is blind ¬¬) i'm pretty sure it would have at least "something" better than Celebi (Even Celebi has Stealth Rock xD).

Shaymin has the movepool of an UU Poke (Vileplume lol) but because of its Stats it will be doomed to BL :S, and using Shaymin in OU it's not worth unless you obtain one with a good Nature + good Ivs and seeing that is an Event Pokemon this translates as: ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE :)

This pathetic Shaymin doesn't even learn Reflect or Light Screen, go to NU ¬¬!! XD

 

[Mekkah]

404 HP Subseeding would be good...not because it doesn't break against Seismic Toss since Blissey is going to Ice Beam or switch out anyway, but because it's pretty sturdy in general, and it's his only way of recovery besides Natural Rest.

If anything I think this thing is better than Venusaur for abusing Sleep + Seed and being able to recover somewhat reliably in a sandstorm, as well as having Earthquake resistance.

 

[X-Act]

Shaymin @ Leftovers *** Gaymin
Natural Cure
Timid Nature
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 SpAtk

~ Substitute
~ Leech Seed
~ Synthesis
~ Seed Flare

Gaymin. T-Tar and Hippowdon switch-ins get Seed Flared. Afterwards, when the Sandstorm is removed, this thing is the definition of gay. Grass types not named Torterra wall it, but, other than that, most other things fall to Seed Flare or to Subleech.

 

[Ayrton.nS)]

Could someone clarify sub-seeding for me: Isn't it better to have as few Total Hit points as possible so that the seed refills a greater % of your health each tur? i.e scpetile vs snorlax is great for sceptile, but Shaymin vs dusklops wouldn't be so great?

 

[Mekkah]

In theory, it would be better to have less HP. However, the % Leech Seed return you get for less HP and more defenses isn't that much, but Sheimi will get damaged more badly because it's using EVs inefficiently.

Gaymin. T-Tar and Hippowdon switch-ins get Seed Flared. Afterwards, when the Sandstorm is removed, this thing is the definition of gay.

Why would anyone switch in these two on a Grass-type though?

 

[X-Act]

Exactly. It deters the change of weather, allowing Synthesis to work better.

 

[nomargu46]

Shaymin @ Hot Rock
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Leech Seed
Seed Flare / Solarbeam

i'd personally use Seed Flare in the last slot. anyways, i think Shaymin pulls off this set pretty well; it's more of a support set for others on the team than for itself, of course... Shaymin has the defensive stats to put up a Sunny Day and get Leech Seed going while it can stand to hold Hot Rock effectively because it has enough ways to recover HP without the use of Leftovers. Other than the well-rounded overall stats, Seed Flare is a nice move to set it apart from others who could serve a similar role (such as Tangrowth)... unfortunately, with Sunny Day up, Solarbeam is a better move. Still, dictating the weather could prove pretty effective in the D/P metagame with a bunch of Sandstorm teams running around. Sure, Celebi outshines Shaymin in almost all ways, but the ability to not get absolutely destroyed by any U-Turn is certainly a plus :)

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Worry Seed should go into the Support movepool (bye Guts on Cross).

I like the Aromatherapist set Misty brought up, it could probably pull it off effectively.

 

[Seph]

Worry Seed should go into the Support movepool (bye Guts on Cross).

I like the Aromatherapist set Misty brought up, it could probably pull it off effectively.

*glares at avatar*

lol, anyway, that's a good point. Changed.

 

[Jibaku]

After SRing it in my game (glitch), I came up with this Sheimi

IVs
Bold Nature, Lv.30
HP: 23
Atk: x (6,7 or 8. I didn't calculate this on Lv.100)
Def: 31
Spd: 24
SAtk: 10
SDef: 30

I dunno how to EV this. I wanna run Seed/Psychic (Hera isn't going in)/Seed Flare/Rest here. I would start out with Max HP, but I'm stuck on distributing on the defenses.

HP type is either flying or fighting, both with 60+ power, according to NetBattle

 

[Pneuma]

Get enough defenses to take a EQ/StoneEdge/Crunch from T-tar and see if you can still take something like a single Azelf unschemed Fthrower.

 

[Misty]

The latter can be done without a single EV. Schemed you'd need 404/279 to survive; 404/236 will survive an Adamant CBtar Stone Edge.

 

[Pneuma]

gg Shaymin. Schemed Fthrower isn't as imporant since you're just taking the single Fthrower to Rest/LeechSeed/Attack/SunnyDay as opposed to an immediate switch (in the effort to keep options open).