Dragonite (Analysis)

[lulzer]

Ok how about this:
For the mixed attacker we have Brick Break and MultiScale as the primary option and say this works very well as a lead. Then we have Superpower and Inner Focus slashed and we say if you are not using this dragonite as a lead Superpower and Innerfocus is a good alternative (roost also becomes a nice option) due to the prevalence of SS and SR negating Multiscale (or something along these lines and mention how superpower is great for blissey / chansey (DM + superpower might 2HKO blissey but I'm not sure?)). Don't even slash leftovers, Dragonite needs the power of LO.

So the Mixnite set would look something like this:
[SET]
Mixed Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Extreme Speed / Roost
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Brick Break / Superpower / Thunderbolt
ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Rash
EVs: 116 Atk / 200 SpA / 192 Spe

I'm fine with LO staying a slash on bulky DD but please heavily emphasise leftovers. Last slot in the offensive DD should probably be "Earthquake / Brick Break / Extremespeed" and mention waterfall in AC to 2HKO gliscor without locking yourself into outrage.
For the CB set the third slash should probably be:
move 3: Dragon Claw / Earthquake / Waterfall.

Heatran's the only thing resisting dragon/fire and you can power through that with outrage if necessary. Considering the impeccable coverage you already get Dragon Claw is probably the best move in the third slot so you can fire off powerful dragon moves without locking yourself in early game.

Also @ Delta I tried the parashuffler set and it was really underwhelming; it could paralyze and get up to 100% but if it wants to phaze it has to take a hit anyway and its gonna face the next thing out without having multiscale active which is why I suggested running heal bell so it can support the team more. Basically, multiscale is good on that dnite for when it first comes out but after that it's not so great "multiscale-wise".

Seems fair to me, only changing EQ with BB on the last slot I think (so damn much balooning around =/).
The problem I see with EQ is that there's not much in this metagame that needs EQ desperatly, what gets hit by it will be probably floating anyway cept for Shandelure and Terakion and even then, there are many other ways of OHKO them without EQ.

 

[Bad Ass]

Hey, this looks solid. I only have a few changes. I may have some more once I speak with Bloo.

Right now, MixNite is the biggest issue. Inner Focus needs to be entirely removed; it is next-to-useless considering a) the lack of flinching moves and b) the utter amazing-ness of Multi Scale. Taking half damage at full health is HUGE!

Secondly, I believe that Extremespeed should be relegated to AC. Roost + Multi Scale is very hard to break, and it becomes even harder to break when you can't bring in something to OHKO Dragonite, since it can just Roost and activate Multi Scale, then pound away with Draco Meteors. Extremespeed is still viable for picking off the Starmies and Infernapes of the world, so it still needs a mention.

Also, Superpower should be up front. MixNite needs to pack the hardest punch it can, and as it stands Brick Break isn't really hurting things like Heatran as much as is necessary. Superpower garners a lot of OHKOs that would be missed without it. Thunderbolt should be removed entirely, since most Water-types are 2HKOd by two Draco Meteors or a Draco Meteor followed by a Superpower. I also think Brick Break should be removed. It makes it look a lot cleaner, and is not really an option when compared to Superpower.

Lastly, the EVs. I'd change them to 192 Spe / 252 SAtk / 64 Atk. It gives the Draco Meteors an extra kick, while still beating Cloyster speed wise.. 64 Atk is all that you need to get Superpower to OHKO things like Heatran or Blissey.

Final set should be:

Mixed Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Roost
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Superpower
ability: Multi Scale
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe

- mention Extremespeed in AC
- mention Thunderbolt in AC

I'll see if I find anything wrong with the other sets, but until then consider this approved by me.

 

[PlainN]

Superpower cannot be used with multi-scale so you more or less contradict yourself with your two main prescriptions. Extremespeed is absolutely needed since that forms more or less the crux of the mixedNite set to begin with. Whether you use an EV spread with some speed or not, it is still slow as hell and needs the priority of ESpeed to finish off important targets.

 

[TheWaft]

[SET]
"Swiftnite" (parashuffling tanker lead)
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roost
ability: Multiscale
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
Evs: 244 HP / 88 SpDef / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• Early scouting with dragon tail.
• Spreads paralysis, and can function as a phazer midgame.
• Extremely potent with toxic spikes support.
• Hp EVs hit dragonites highest leftovers number, allowing maximum leftovers recovery.
• Speed EVs hit 240, outspeeding adamant breloom and blocking spore with substitute. The rest are invested in special defense to tank ice beams and draco meteors.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Almost nothing is able to OHKO this set.
• Foiled by taunters, but phazes them away.

Could you please add this to the analysis?

This is a great set, but I disagree with using it as a lead. I think I would have skarmory go out in the lead and start to spread his SR and spikes, then go into this guy for the entry hazards+dragon tail to annoy the hell out of teams

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

This is a great set, but I disagree with using it as a lead. I think I would have skarmory go out in the lead and start to spread his SR and spikes, then go into this guy for the entry hazards+dragon tail to annoy the hell out of teams

If anyone said it, it definitely shouldn't be used as a lead. He can be used for an early switch in, but not as the starter.

I'm still using the set and I'm still having great success with it. I've won many of my games by paralyzing as much as possible, then set up with a mixed sweeper. Not a lot of people know how to fight the set which why I think it's so effective.

And panamaxis, when used in conjunction with Substitute, you'll be able to phaze away and still remain at 100% whether the decoy is broken or not. You just need them to stay put just one turn. I've effortlessly made use of Multi-Scale multiple times ensuring I could kep going. If used on a stall team, then there's a good chance you'll just run out of Power Points (unless your opponent quits in disgust of course).

 

[Bad Ass]

In which case, the set should be
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Roost / ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Brick Break / Superpower
ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash
EVs: 116 Atk / 200 SpA / 192 Spe

 

[lulzer]

Who would've guessed that the most traditional set would be the one causing the bigger debates, and the worse part is that 1 of the QC guys think BB + Multi Scale is better and the other its Superpower, but oh well... did some more changes on it, everything good now Bad Ass / Panamaxis?

 

[AccidentalGreed]

You know, I have a suggestion. Even this is pertaining to the Salamence era last generation, we can split Mixnite into two sets, ala "Classic Mixmence" and "New Mixmence". Whereas the "Classic Mixnite" takes advantage of Superpower and a different EV spread (it's classic after all!), "New Mixnite" uses Roost and Brick Break and MultiScale to survive longer in battle and defeat walls. Can we do that? Theoritically, it fits the difference between the generation shifts an there will be less dispute on one Mixed set. So yeah, two seperate mixed sets: one for the classic 4th generation, and one for the new fifth.

 

[PlainN]

The only complaint I have on the current Mixed (Lead) sets is the lack of a physical fire move. I mean, why bother with Flamethrower/FBlast when you could potentially have a much stronger Fire Punch? The lesser BP is more than compensated by Dnite's naturally higher attack. Most Nattorei (the biggest reason why we have a fire move) are specially defensive and definitely take a -2 (post-DM) special fire move. Fire Punch not only is not affected by the negative side effects of DM but is able to OHKO Scizor and Natt with LO. Perhaps slash it in?

On another note, I forgot, but does LO do its damage after the turn is over (like SS) or is it after the user attacks? If it's the latter, then I feel much less secure from using it.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

The only complaint I have on the current Mixed (Lead) sets is the lack of a physical fire move. I mean, why bother with Flamethrower/FBlast when you could potentially have a much stronger Fire Punch? The lesser BP is more than compensated by Dnite's naturally higher attack. Most Nattorei (the biggest reason why we have a fire move) are specially defensive and definitely take a -2 (post-DM) special fire move. Fire Punch not only is not affected by the negative side effects of DM but is able to OHKO Scizor and Natt with LO. Perhaps slash it in?

On another note, I forgot, but does LO do its damage after the turn is over (like SS) or is it after the user attacks? If it's the latter, then I feel much less secure from using it.

"Google says" the recoil takes place after an attack. If it did take place after a turn like Sandstorm, it'd be one of the worst offensive items ever. No disagreement on Fire Punch either.

 

[lulzer]

You know, I have a suggestion. Even this is pertaining to the Salamence era last generation, we can split Mixnite into two sets, ala "Classic Mixmence" and "New Mixmence". Whereas the "Classic Mixnite" takes advantage of Superpower and a different EV spread (it's classic after all!), "New Mixnite" uses Roost and Brick Break and MultiScale to survive longer in battle and defeat walls. Can we do that? Theoritically, it fits the difference between the generation shifts an there will be less dispute on one Mixed set. So yeah, two seperate mixed sets: one for the classic 4th generation, and one for the new fifth.

People were saying DNite had too many sets, but I can't see any other solution than this one. Also, it'd make a lot easier to write the set comments and on a much clearer way, since the classic is a demon wallbreaker w/o much bulk and the new one deals continuous damage for a while. Should I do this?

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I'm kind of curious as to why you included Inner Focus in the analysis at all. There is almost nothing that can flinch Dragonite in the first place, so it's kind of useless.

Fake Out users get beaten by a +2 priority ExtremeSpeed, making the removal of flinching useless. The only user of Dark Pulse faster than Dragonite would be Sazandora/Hydregion, who destroys you anyways with STAB 2x Dragon moves. The only thing that Inner Focus would be used for would be Rock Slide Doryuuzu/Excadrill, which will OHKO you anyways thanks to not having MultiScale. The only reason I can think of to use Inner Focus Dragonite is if you're deathly afraid of Paraflinch Togekiss/Jirachi...both of which Dragonite can't counter reliably anyways. They'll just paralyze you and switch out, making your Dragonite next to useless.

Also, the OO section should make mentions of Superpower, Haze, Tailwind, special Fire-moves, Aqua Jet, Aqua Tail, and Stone Edge. This thing has an insanely good movepool and the stats to abuse it.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Why is there not a mixed attacker set? It's been a staple of Dragonite for 5 generations.

The first set?

 

[jrrrrrrr]

The first set?

I swear I looked at the analysis like 5 times and couldn't find it. Wow I'm dumb >_<

I edited that part out of my post, thanks for the catch. Pretty sure the rest of my post is valid though

 

[lulzer]

I'm kind of curious as to why you included Inner Focus in the analysis at all. There is almost nothing that can flinch Dragonite in the first place, so it's kind of useless.

Fake Out users get beaten by a +2 priority ExtremeSpeed, making the removal of flinching useless. The only user of Dark Pulse faster than Dragonite would be Sazandora/Hydregion, who destroys you anyways with STAB 2x Dragon moves. The only thing that Inner Focus would be used for would be Rock Slide Doryuuzu/Excadrill, which will OHKO you anyways thanks to not having MultiScale. The only reason I can think of to use Inner Focus Dragonite is if you're deathly afraid of Paraflinch Togekiss/Jirachi...both of which Dragonite can't counter reliably anyways. They'll just paralyze you and switch out, making your Dragonite next to useless.

Why is there not a mixed attacker set? It's been a staple of Dragonite for 5 generations...surely it's more useful than the parashuffler set.

Also, the OO section should make mentions of Superpower, Haze, Tailwind, special Fire-moves, Aqua Jet, Aqua Tail, and Stone Edge. This thing has an insanely good movepool and the stats to abuse it.

Did you read anything at all? Also... saying about Superpower on the OO is the same as talking about damn Inner Focus -.-"...

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Did you read anything at all? Also... saying about Superpower on the OO is the same as talking about damn Inner Focus -.-"...

I ninja'd that out of the post before you got yours in :P

And what do you mean "saying about Superpower on the OO is the same as talking about damn Inner Focus -.-" They're both OO material regardless of compatibility. Speaking of which, there currently isn't an OO section in the first place...

 

[lulzer]

You can only run superpower when going with inner focus =/ that's the main problem around it this gen. You got to either sacrifice it's humongous damage or sacrifice Multi Scale, and that's the biggest discussion around what the MixNite should look like.
The OO will come later, if it's even needed at all, right now I'll basically try to set down the main sets.

 

[guddagudda]

Gale is called Hurricane in the English versions.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

People were saying DNite had too many sets, but I can't see any other solution than this one. Also, it'd make a lot easier to write the set comments and on a much clearer way, since the classic is a demon wallbreaker w/o much bulk and the new one deals continuous damage for a while. Should I do this?

I think you should, though that's up the Quality Control guys' opinions. The two MixNites play in different ways and styles as like the two Mixmence sets last generation, which is why I thought of separating it. Like you said, Classic MixNite is a hard hitting effer whereas the New MixNite plays rather conservatively around Blissey and Tyranitar and friends.

 

[PlainN]

Okay, I know we have a billion sets and I know the Superpower thing has been discussed to death, but I was playing around yesterday with the mixed attacking (lead) sets and came up with an interesting variety. Basically, my only qualm with multi-scale is that you really don't want to switch Dnite into anything so that Multi-scale is broken. I usually send Dnite to revenge a poke or set up after someone else has fainted. Also, LO is almost impossible to go with multi-scale since the recoil takes place on the attack. That means if you can't OHKO a slower poke with an ice move, you're screwed. My primary qualm with the mixed set is just that: it's mixed. Why separate DNite's attacking power when its tremendous move pool offers more or less everything you need in terms of coverage. THUS, I came up with this fun variety:

Gengar Wannabe @ Life Orb
Adamant, EVs to be worked out (currently 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP)
Inner Focus
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower
- Roost
- Substitute

DClaw and Superpower give almost perfect neutral coverage with pretty good power given the current EV spread. Sub + Roost will allow for more switch-in opportunities as well as a way to scout and do some damage to your counters. Come in on defensive pivots (on offensive teams) or on walls you can force out. Set up a sub and play like Gengar. The sub also protects you from slower statuses.

After a few games with it, this Dnite has netted a surprisingly amount of kills. However, I attribute this mostly to the novelty factor (lol Superpower Nattorei; lol OHKO Kijondo on Fake-out). It's also a bitch to take down once it gets a sub up (got that from Swift's set). Finally, it acts as an excellent scout. Don't expect much out of this set, but hopefully it gets people interested in all-out (physical) attackers.

Here is the Multi-scale Variant:

Dragonite @ Life Orb
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Multiscale
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Fire Punch
- Roost

 

[lulzer]

Guys, I asked the 2 QC staff that passed around our community effort on Dragonite if it was fine to split the mixed set, they still didnt answer, but I'm leaning in that direction, so expect an update tomorrow or the day after spliting the sets into the "classical" heavy hitting superpower inner focus and the "new", with roost over extreme speed and BB over superpower

 

[PlainN]

Lulzer, if it really becomes an issue, you can combine the DD sets and split the Mixed sets. There is no way in hell anyone in the right mind would use Inner Focus with DD sets so it's really a matter of moves and EV spreads which is probably easier to describe in the paragraph body anyway. The moves are also more or less compatible with each other. For example, I've been using Roost and DClaw with the Offensive DDNite and it works wonders (in fact, probably better than the listed set although need more testing). Also, I'm currently testing Chesto-rest Offensive DD since I find the biggest stop to a late game sweep is status.

 

[Heroes Fall]

I've been testing out a mono attacking set for mid game sweeping. Specially defensive EV spread as I like how he can tank icebeams as if his 4x weakness didn't exist.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
244 HP, 244 SpD, 20 Spd
Multiscale
-Dragon Claw
-Dragon Dance
-Roost
-Substitute

Multiscale protected substitutes are great. I can get DDs up inbetween most attacks to the point where the attack boost make dragon claw potent even without EV investments or a positive nature. Working very well for me right now. Very easily swaps into fighting type attacks onto something like blaziken that can't dent it and get a dragon dance off of the switch. If he uses swords dance I'll throw in a +1 dragon claw which is usually enough to kill blaziken with any residual damage from life orb or spikes. Pokemon that rely on status to stop dragonite are easily set up on if you sub the status, same goes for ferrothorn if you sub the leech seed (unable to set up if it has gyro ball though). A really great set, considering switching out claw for tail though for the added benefits of phasing, spreading spike damage and preventing freezes when roosting/subbing through ice attacks.

 

[lulzer]

Ok guy, I jointed both DD sets (was really easy to do) and split the mixed set, now the purpose of each attack on him seems much cleared! Yet, I gotta leave now, so I'll update with the new mixnite maybe tonight or tomorrow, c ya around!

 

[UnhandledException]

In the first set(classic mixnite)

Fire Punch might be a better option over Fire Blast due to the sheer amount of specially defensive Ferrothorn;

I don't think mentioning this is important since a Rash 252 SpA Fire Blast always OHKOes 252/252 Sassy Nattorei(114.8% - 135.2%).