Pokémon Diancie

[Repeater1947]

Approved by AM
Original thread revamped with permission from TheTraininator
Original thread found here

#719 - Diancie

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Base stats
Base Diancie: 50 HP / 100 Atk / 150 Def / 100 SpAtk / 150 SpDef / 50 Spe [BST: 600]
Mega Diancie: 50 HP / 160 Atk / 110 Def / 160 SpAtk / 110 SpDef / 110 Spe [BST: 700]
Abilities
Diancie
Clear Body - Prevents the user's stats from being lowered by opposing Pokemon.

Mega Diancie
Magic Bounce - The user blocks stat-lowering moves, entry hazards, and status-inducing moves used by the opponent, then reflects it back to the opponent. However, it does not prevent the opponent's abilities (i.e. Intimidate) nor secondary effects from opposing damage-dealing moves (i.e. burns from Scald, SpAtk drop from Moonblast) from crippling the Pokemon that has this ability.

Viable moves
(bold indicates STAB)

• Diamond Storm
• Moonblast
• Earth Power
• Psyshock
• Psychic
• Ancient Power
• Hidden Power [Ice]
• Protect
• Rock Polish
• Calm Mind
• Stealth Rock
• Trick Room
• Explosion
• Heal Bell
• Hidden Power [Fire]

Overview

Diancie is currently a top-notch threat in the ORAS OU metagame and it's not hard to see why. Mega Diancie's offenses are great, tied with its great coverage. Mega Diancie's speed tier of 110 is great, being able to outspeed a large portion of the meta. Also, its Magic Bounce ability prevents it from being directly crippled by status, such as Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, or Thunder Wave. It should also be taken note that it is the only Pokemon that can learn Diamond Storm, an improvement of Stone Edge boasting better accuracy and a 50% chance of raising Defense by one stage. Access to boosting moves such as Calm Mind and Rock Polish, CM allows itself to break through Stall and Balanced builds, while Rock Polish mows down offensive teams. However, Mega Diancie has a few setbacks in OU. Due to its shallow movepool, it forces it to run a mixed attacking set, which even forces it to run a negative nature on one of its defensive stats. Second, Mega Diancie is frail without investment, having a base 50 HP offsets its Defense and Special Defense, which stacks with a terrible devensive typing, leaving it weak to common priority attacks in the form of Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet. Lastly, its base 50 speed pre-mega leaves it vulnerable to several offensive Pokemon in the meta, making it somewhat difficult to mega evolve without the use of Protect.

It all started back in XY. Back in the day, Diancie was a Pokemon quite mediocre for OU standards, due to its poor speed, terrible defensive typing, and lack of reliable recovery that prevents if from being effective. However, all of that has changed in ORAS when Diancie was gifted a mega evolution, containing offensive presence along with its great speed tier it has always dreamed of. Due to this, the diamond princess has risen high to the ranks, gaining significant popularity among the OU metagame. It now stands as one of the Pokemon that defines this metagame, especially the archetype of Offense.
Relevant Movesets

All-out attacker / Protect + 3 Attacks
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Protect

This set utilizes the move Protect to scout for moves, as well as safely mega evolving to offset its terrible speed pre-mega. Moonblast is your obligatory STAB nuke, capable of denting most of the meta that doesn't resist it, as well as showing no mercy against Dragons and Fighting-types. Diamond Storm is your secondary STAB, hitting Birdspam and Fire-types for super-effective damage. Earth Power is for coverage against Steel- and and Electric-types notably Heatran, Raikou, Mega Manectric, as well as denting Mega Metagross and non-SpDef Jirachi on the switch.

16 EVs are placed on Attack to OHKO Physically Defensive Zapdos after Stealth Rock. 252 Speed EVs with a Naive nature allows Mega Diancie to speed tie with opposing base 110s, while the remainder is dumped to Special Attack in order to hit as hard as possible.

Do not be afraid to click Protect for the sake of scouting for priority or super-effective coverage a few Pokemon might be running just for it, such as Iron Head from Skarmory, Gyro Ball from Ferrothorn, Steel Wing from Talonflame, and Bullet Punch from the likes of Lucario and Mega Metagross.

Rock Polish
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 56 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish

A Rock Polish set lets it outspeed every Pokemon in the metagame bar priority and Unburden Hawlucha, putting offensive teams under pressure. 16 EVs are dumped on Attack OHKO Physically Defensive Zapdos after SR. 184 Speed EVs lets it outspeed neutral base 100s. EVs are maximized on Special Attack in order to hit as hard as possible. A Rash nature is used to hit as hard as possible on the special attacking side. The remaining 56 EVs are invested on HP in order to improve its bulk, and can even live an Aqua Jet from Band Azumarill 87.5% of the time. Do note that if you decide to run a Rash nature, you won't be able to check many of the faster threats without a boost, in which some are able to outspeed you and KO you outright, such as Keldeo and Garchomp. If you prefer speed over power, you can opt to run 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature for the same reason on the above set.

As always, mega evolve on something that doesn't directly threaten you, and do so as early as possible in order to switch or revenge kill threats later in the game. Once opposing priority attackers and checks are disposed of, Mega Diancie is able to set up a Rock Polish and then score a GG.

Calm Mind
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Psyshock

The Calm Mind variant gives it the capabilities to nail defensive teams by boosting its attacks to high levels. STAB Moonblast is able to nuke nearly anything not resistant to it, after a boost. Earth Power complements Moonblast, being able to hit Electric- Fire-, and Steel-types for super-effective damage. Psyshock is used to beat Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss, as well as being able to beat opposing Calm Mind sweepers. The EV spread makes Mega Diancie hit hard and fast as possible. Timid is mandatory to speed tie with base 110s.

Again, ensure that you mega evolve as soon as possible on something that doesn't really threaten you. Use Calm Mind during early- to mid-game in order to wallbreak. During late-game, Mega Diancie is open to sweep, provided it has its checks removed.

Trick Room Setter
Diancie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Diamond Storm / Mooblast

As regular Diancie has base 50 speed, as well as decent bulk, the diamond princess is able to fulfill the role of a bulky Trick Room setter. Diancie can also fulfill the role of setting up hazards. Explosion is for momentum once Diancie's job is done. Diancie's attacking option on whether to run Diamond Storm or Moonblast a matter of preference. A Mental Herb is supplied, since it allows Diancie to avoid a Taunt once. 88 EVs are invested on Defense as to let Diancie avoid an OHKO from a +6 Talonflame Brave Bird even after Stealth Rock, while the remainder is placed on Special Defense with a Sassy nature in order to tank special hits better.

Other Options
Moves
Hidden Power [Ice] can lure Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Landorus-I and nail them on the switch-in.
Hidden Power [Fire] can be used to nail Scizor and Ferrothorn on the switch. However this move isn't recommended, as you lose the ability to speed tie with opposing base 110s, and said opponents are better handled by teammates anyways.
Stealth Rock can be used if your team has no other options for a hazard setter.
Substitute is an option in order to win a free turn on predicted switches, though it cuts your longevity on the match, since Mega Diancie apparently lacks any form of recovery.
Ancient Power can be used on the Calm Mind set to check Birdspam and Mega Charizard-Y.
Psychic lures in and usually 2HKOes Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss on the switch-in.

Conclusion
It should be taken note that Mega Diancie is a threat that teams must prepare for. Its offense capabilities combined with its great speed tier can be difficult to switch to. Since Diancie was gifted a mega stone in ORAS, the diamond princess quickly went from zero to hero, rising all the way to an A+ Rank threat. It now stands as one of the Pokemon that defines this metagame, especially the archetype of Offense.

Feel free to discuss the effectiveness of this Pokemon and how it dominates this metagame. How does this Pokemon still shine despite the presence of Mega Metagross? And what solid teammates can Mega Diancie be paired with?

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Rash Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish

With this set, Diancie avoids the OHKO from CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet 87.5% of the time. Also with max speed you don't really outspeed anything... significant, so HP investment wouldn't hurt.

 

[Kurona]

Gj; one of the sexiest OPs I've seen imo :]

Also, in OO mention Non-Mega Diancie is a good trick room setter that beats Talonflame -- that's it's one niche without Diancite.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

(OP you stole my old avatar that definitely was mine and no one else's)

Has anyone tried Hidden Power Ice on Diancie? She actually outspeeds most of the attacks' targets, unlike HP Fire, where Scizor almost always runs Bullet Punch. Landorus-T, Gliscor, Garchomp (though it may be kinda useless to try to kill this one, as it usually runs scarf and eq), and Dragonite are all OHKO'd after Stealth Rock (yes, even 252 / 252+ def lando). HP Fire may be a better option in the case of Ferrothorn which it can always outspeed unless it's in trick room or something, but I think it would be worth a shot.

 

[Kurona]

(OP you stole my old avatar that definitely was mine and no one else's)

Has anyone tried Hidden Power Ice on Diancie? She actually outspeeds most of the attacks' targets, unlike HP Fire, where Scizor almost always runs Bullet Punch. Landorus-T, Gliscor, Garchomp (though it may be kinda useless to try to kill this one, as it usually runs scarf and eq), and Dragonite are all OHKO'd after Stealth Rock (yes, even 252 / 252+ def lando). HP Fire may be a better option in the case of Ferrothorn which it can always outspeed unless it's in trick room or something, but I think it would be worth a shot.

Garchomp's most common set now actually seems to be the bulky rocky helmet variant. I'd be more worried about Scarf Lando tbh; but I'd say this is definitely good for a lure to nail 'em on the switch-in. It also might be good for fucking over Lando-I who's also been seeing a rise in prominence.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Ice vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 272-324 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's actually not bad at all. Scarf Lando would be a problem but that's what protect is for I guess.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Ice vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 272-324 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's actually not bad at all. Scarf Lando would be a problem but that's what protect is for I guess.

If it switches in on a RP set, it's dead. Esp since most run a rash nature.
Edit: oh wait, you don't have room for HP Ice on a RP set.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

If it switches in on a RP set, it's dead. Esp since most run a rash nature.

That's true, but a lot of things are dead if they switch in on a RP set. I think Protect might actually be a better option despite the speed increase in general - I think RP is definitely suited to a different team type (hyper offense) but Protect helps Diancie mega evolve and to get over her biggest flaw, which is the base 50 speed. Since it's really hard to mega evolve Diancie (if you Protect you could give another mon a chance to set up but if you don't protect Diancie could die early) Protect is in general really handy.

 

[Repeater1947]

Yes, I pretty much agree that Protect + 3 Attacks is the best set atm. I've tried the Rock Polish set before, but then I've realized that Protect had saved me more games. Diancie's base 50 speed leaves it vulnerable to many offensive mons, and some Pokemon Mega Diancie keeps in check can actually kill her pre-mega such as Keldeo, Garchomp, Breloom, to name a few. Also, I've seen a few Pokemon starting to run super-effective coverage and/or priority just for it. There have been Skarmory who have started running Iron Head, Lucario and Mega Metagross running Bullet Punch to secure the speed tie, and even the rare Steel Wing Talonflame. It's pretty neat to scout for super-effective coverage opponents may be running just for it. And yeah, it's handy to scout Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, something that dents your offensive teammates. Protect also is a nice option for playing mindgames with the opponent. I've paired Mega Diancie with Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn once, it was nice for racking off chip damage on physical attackers aimed towards Mega Diancie.

 

[bludz]

Small nitpick: the Rock Polish set actually runs 176 Speed EVs otherwise you are using too many EVs. I also have a formatting suggestion on the base stats part -- if you call the non mega evolved Diancie "Base Diancie" then the two will line up for a better stat comparison -- and you could also add the stat names (HP, Attack, etc). Anyway that's just something I'd do as a personal preference.... <.<

Very pretty OP that has the relevant info. Nice job :)

 

[TheTraininator]

Yes, I agree. Great job with the OP, I'm glad I handed it off to you. In fact, it's so good that I don't really have much to contribute at the time, except maybe you could actually list the TR set outside of other options, considering it's a pretty good set imo. Great job though!

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Small nitpick: the Rock Polish set actually runs 176 Speed EVs otherwise you are using too many EVs. I also have a formatting suggestion on the base stats part -- if you call the non mega evolved Diancie "Base Diancie" then the two will line up for a better stat comparison -- and you could also add the stat names (HP, Attack, etc). Anyway that's just something I'd do as a personal preference.... <.<

Very pretty OP that has the relevant info. Nice job :)

180 is better, it lets you RP w/o mega evolving to save your bulk while also allowing you to outspeed base 115s the next turn when you mega evolve. And that extra point in bulk will almost never change anything.

 

[bludz]

Alright well I'm not questioning whether 180 is better just saying there are too many EVs listed right now and the analysis lists 176 as the benchmark to use. If you want to run 180 then 4 EVs need to come out of something else.

 

[Always!]

Great OP, all info included and so very much helpful. However, I disagree with the idea of Protect+3 attacks being the best set, or at least all the time. Rock Polish is what can make Mega Diancie an impossible stop for most offensive teams that make the mistake of letting it setup, as its main checks are scarfed Pokemon such as Lando-T and priority. With proper team support from something such as Rocky Helmet Chomp, these checks can be whittled away till after an RP, Mega Diancie can completely sweep an opposing team without worrying about these problems, something Protect can't do as it will never be able to outspeed said things. While Protect makes it extremely easy to MEvo + scouting for moves is always helpful, and could be considered its best set standing alone, with proper team support I personally feel RP is just as effective in different situations, if not more. RP Diancie's only problem is indeed getting that first MEvo off, and possibly less speed than a standard Protect set. Diancie also is nice to force switches or dissuade an opponent from setting up hazards and getting an easy RP vs things like Heatran. I suppose RP's matchup vs teams that exude less offensive pressure is significantly better than other teams that simply make it too dangerous to even consider MEvoing, let alone setting up an RP.

Please feel free to correct/tell me where my mistakes are, I'm still learning.

 

[Kurona]

Great OP, all info included and so very much helpful. However, I disagree with the idea of Protect+3 attacks being the best set, or at least all the time. Rock Polish is what can make Mega Diancie an impossible stop for most offensive teams that make the mistake of letting it setup, as its main checks are scarfed Pokemon such as Lando-T and priority. With proper team support from something such as Rocky Helmet Chomp, these checks can be whittled away till after an RP, Mega Diancie can completely sweep an opposing team without worrying about these problems, something Protect can't do as it will never be able to outspeed said things. While Protect makes it extremely easy to MEvo + scouting for moves is always helpful, and could be considered its best set standing alone, with proper team support I personally feel RP is just as effective in different situations, if not more. RP Diancie's only problem is indeed getting that first MEvo off, and possibly less speed than a standard Protect set. Diancie also is nice to force switches or dissuade an opponent from setting up hazards and getting an easy RP vs things like Heatran. I suppose RP's matchup vs teams that exude less offensive pressure is significantly better than other teams that simply make it too dangerous to even consider MEvoing, let alone setting up an RP.

Please feel free to correct/tell me where my mistakes are, I'm still learning.

The problem with Rock Polish Diancie is that yes, while it is arguably more effective than Protect Diancie after setting up, the problem is finding that chance to set up which is difficult to do. Most forms of offence definitely will not allow this to happen and even Stall makes it fear the Scald burn - hell, Scald in general due to being so frail. It is definitely possible to pull off but it requires much more team support than Protect.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

The problem with Rock Polish Diancie is that yes, while it is arguably more effective than Protect Diancie after setting up, the problem is finding that chance to set up which is difficult to do. Most forms of offence definitely will not allow this to happen and even Stall makes it fear the Scald burn - hell, Scald in general due to being so frail. It is definitely possible to pull off but it requires much more team support than Protect.

I've found that it's actually quite easy to set up. I don't know, maybe im forgetting something, but it seems like, especially if you run it w/ mag, it can fairly easily find an oppurtunity to sweep. Id argue that the current meta isn't very nice to setup sweepers in general, but Diancie's resistances to fire, dark, flying, and bug can help it here. I Also would argue that, while its not necessarily as easy to play, the sheer destructive power of RP Diancie is incredible.

Something that is yet to get much attention in this thread is the CM set. It is way good against stall teams, and it fairs equally well against offense, so long as strong physical attackers w/ >110 speed are eliminated. Or strong special attackers with SE moves. It's important to try to not switch in on much so as to preserve your already underwhelming bulk as Diancie has 0 recovery.

 

[Machi]

I've found that it's actually quite easy to set up. I don't know, maybe im forgetting something, but it seems like, especially if you run it w/ mag, it can fairly easily find an oppurtunity to sweep. Id argue that the current meta isn't very nice to setup sweepers in general, but Diancie's resistances to fire, dark, flying, and bug can help it here. I Also would argue that, while its not necessarily as easy to play, the sheer destructive power of RP Diancie is incredible.

Something that is yet to get much attention in this thread is the CM set. It is way good against stall teams, and it fairs equally well against offense, so long as strong physical attackers w/ >110 speed are eliminated. Or strong special attackers with SE moves. It's important to try to not switch in on much so as to preserve your already underwhelming bulk as Diancie has 0 recovery.

The problem with setting up in general is that Diancie while having good resistances to common offensive types as you noted suffers from underwhelming bulk, and a very double edged typing with Rock so she is weak to common Steel/Water/EQ/Grass (gaining popularity). That turn of mega simply provides her with the worst of both worlds, loss of defense and generally moving last, so that it isn't really as easy as Magnezone just eliminating a problematic steel since the non-mega turn itself is problematic - there are a lot more weaknesses to account for coming from common checks.

No problem with how destructive RP can be but the metagame itself has shifted to be bulkier and slower, as evidenced by the rise of Lando-I in viability who just breaks these teams, that isn't very conducive to a the set which thrives against offense that are more likely to be OHKOed by a single Moon blast/Earth power than risk being 2HKOed.

As for CM I can't say I've ever been drawn to using it since I just honestly prefer slapping on an MGarde to fulfill that role against stall. It is easier said than done to say you can set-up on a defensive team but in practice with the higher ladder there is more diversity to defensive/stall builds, many for instance use bulky M-Scizor.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

The problem with setting up in general is that Diancie while having good resistances as you noted suffers from underwhelming bulk, and a very double edged typing with Rock so she is weak to common Steel/Water/EQ/Grass (gaining popularity). That turn of mega simply provides her with the worst of both worlds, loss of defense and generally moving last, so that it isn't really as easy as Magnezone just eliminating a problematic steel since the non-mega turn itself is problematic - there are a lot more weaknesses to account for coming from common checks.

No problem with how destructive RP can be but the metagame itself has shifted to be bulkier and slower, as evidenced by the rise of Lando-I in viability who just breaks these teams, that isn't very conducive to a the set which thrives against offense that are more likely to be OHKOed by a single Moon blast/Earth power than risk being 2HKOed.

As for CM I can't say I've ever been drawn to using it since I just honestly prefer slapping on an MGarde to fulfill that role against stall. It is easier said than done to say you can set-up on a defensive team but in practice with the higher ladder there is more diversity to defensive/stall builds, many for instance use bulky M-Scizor.

I agree that resetting up i general is not usually very easy in this meta, but I'd also like to rehash something I actually mentioned somewhere in this thread, and that is that on RP sets, unless there is something like scarf keldeo running around, it's usually beneficial to wait a turn to mega evolve- allowing you to maintain your bulk, and, with the EVs posted, outspeed up to max speed base 115s on the turn that you mega evolve at +2. This mitigates the problem. Although I will readily admit that it's not as easy to use as the all out attacker set, I'd say that, if given the proper support, it's far deadlier.

 

[Machi]

I agree that resetting up i general is not usually very easy in this meta, but I'd also like to rehash something I actually mentioned somewhere in this thread, and that is that on RP sets, unless there is something like scarf keldeo running around, it's usually beneficial to wait a turn to mega evolve- allowing you to maintain your bulk, and, with the EVs posted, outspeed up to max speed base 115s on the turn that you mega evolve at +2. This mitigates the problem. Although I will readily admit that it's not as easy to use as the all out attacker set, I'd say that, if given the proper support, it's far deadlier.

The problem is... how many common base 115s (Starmie) or mons past 110 (Thundrus) are there viable in OU. There was more merit to running RP when Greninja was running around, since base 122 became the benchmark to beat, but since he's gone... well it isn't as threatening to worry about 111+ (you can add MManetric/MLop/MScept but two are dependent on being Mega'd and none of these are set up fodder) and scarfers (well Protect already handled Scarfers nicely).

The problem is even if you wait a turn there is still a fair amount of priority in the wings or bulky mons that will capitalize on the turn you were injured. Then again this just reserves M-Diancie as a late game sweeper which is the other issue since those just aren't as flexible to use in the first place, and the protect set can already fulfill that role while being able to scout throughout the match (since she attracts either scarf users or priority). I'm just not keen on RP since it requires too much support and less so since Greninja left.

Edit: Maybe with Celebi support, which is where I've seen it shine.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

The problem is... how many base 115s (Starmie) or mons past 110 (Thundrus) are there viable in OU. There was more merit to running RP when Greninja was running around, since base 122 became the benchmark to beat, but since he's gone... well it isn't as threatening to worry about 111+ (you can add MManetric/MLop/MScept but two are dependent on being Mega'd and none of these are set up fodder) and scarfers (well Protect already handled Scarfers nicely).

The problem is even if you wait a turn there is still a fair amount of priority in the wings or bulky mons that will capitalize on the turn you were injured. Then again this just reserves M-Diancie as a late game sweeper which is the other issue since those just aren't as flexible to use in the first place, and the protect set can already fulfill that role while being able to scout throughout the match (since she attracts either scarf users or priority). I'm just not keen on RP since it requires too much support and less so since Greninja left.

Um lol, have you not seen all the raikou lately? Also Megagross (who admittedly wins unless it's taken prior damage), and all those 100s, too. It's nigh on impossible to revenge kill if priority is gone, because it has just short of 600 Spe, and Modest nature gives you just a bit more power which I cannot stress the significance of enough. It's the kind of thing that turns 2hkos into ohko's.

 

[Machi]

Um lol, have you not seen all the raikou lately? Also Megagross (who admittedly wins unless it's taken prior damage), and all those 100s, too. It's nigh on impossible to revenge kill if priority is gone, because it has just short of 600 Spe, and Modest nature gives you just a bit more power which I cannot stress the significance of enough. It's the kind of thing that turns 2hkos into ohko's.

Metagross usually carries bullet punch, so I wouldn't bother with him or risk it for that matter (well if you are RP I doubt you'd be keeping him alive). As for Raikou well he would still be 2HKOed regardless, he still remains a solid check it doesn't change the dynamics of that match up (well you can't RP on him since it is more or less a 2HKO from Thunderbolt + SR).

There was actually an old UU discussion about modest VS Naive/Timid there just wasn't much changes in terms of significant mons (you generally still 2HKO most stuff and its more advantageous to outrun base 100+). While UU there was a lot more bulk overall in that metagame. Unless you can provide anything. In any event I think this has been discussed more thoroughly at the previous thread, so just refer to that so that this one can start afresh.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Metagross usually carries bullet punch, so I wouldn't bother with him or risk it for that matter (well if you are RP I doubt you'd be keeping him alive). As for Raikou well he would still be 2HKOed regardless, he still remains a solid check it doesn't change the dynamics of that match up (well you can't RP on him since it is more or less a 2HKO from Thunderbolt + SR).

There was actually an old UU discussion about modest VS Naive/Timid there just wasn't much changes in terms of significant mons (you generally still 2HKO most stuff and its more advantageous to outrun base 100+). While UU there was a lot more bulk overall in that metagame. Unless you can provide anything. In any event I think this has been discussed more thoroughly at the previous thread, so just refer to that so that this one can start afresh.

Bullet punch Megagross is awful. It misses so much coverage, and I'm refering to raikou switch ins to tank moon blast and volt switch out for momentum. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you, I just think your missing some stuff.

Anyways, naive w/ 16 Atk allows you to ohko zard x, iirc. Not sure if I'm getting mixed up though- maybe it's neccessary to secure the 2hko every time or something. But yes, it does have a purpose.

 

[bludz]

Diamond Storm doesnt OHKO 104 HP Zard X 100% of the time regardless of the 16 EVs, it's for physically defensive Zapdos after rocks (not that relevant imo).

 

[Machi]

Bullet punch Megagross is awful. It misses so much coverage, and I'm refering to raikou switch ins to tank moon blast and volt switch out for momentum. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you, I just think your missing some stuff.

Anyways, naive w/ 16 Atk allows you to ohko zard x, iirc. Not sure if I'm getting mixed up though- maybe it's neccessary to secure the 2hko every time or something. But yes, it does have a purpose.

It is for Zapdos and it is funny to dismiss bullet punch when the MMGross test pretty advocated for it as being the more reliable ways to checking MDiancie, it was fairly well received at least during his testing it is a viable enough move to worry about (or at least not risk if possible).

Whereas for Raikou it just ends up with the same situation more or less, who'd still be able to tank a hit etc just look at the calcs unless you plan to go 1v1 on it otherwise.

I was talking about modest since I'm not seeing any real changes in the calcs that turned 2HKOes into OHKO as you claimed with the rise in power, at least running through the S to A- ranks.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

It is for Zapdos and it is funny to dismiss bullet punch when the MMGross test pretty advocated for it as being the more reliable ways to checking MDiancie, it was fairly well received at least during his testing it is a viable enough move to worry about (or at least not risk if possible).

Whereas for Raikou it just ends up with the same situation more or less, who'd still be able to tank a hit etc just look at the calcs unless you plan to go 1v1 on it otherwise.

I was talking about modest since I'm not seeing any real changes in the calcs that turned 2HKOes into OHKO as you claimed with the rise in power, at least running through the S to A- ranks.

As for the extra ko's, I'm just regurgitating what I've been repeatedly told. I'd assume people aren't using 240 SpA EVs for fun