INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
Here's what's bad about it, everyone here reading knows the movepools are different and that's the difference
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Dhelmise
- Thread starter HotFuzzBall
- Start date
- Status
BenTheDemon
Banned deucer.
Sorry. Not sure why, but I thought this was in the official analyses threads. That part would have not made it to an official analysis. :P
I see no reason to. Whether you get strong heavy slam or not is completely luck based on your opponent's team. Gyro Ball would be better because you can influence by changing your speed IV. Either way though I think Anchor Shot is going to cover the difference in potential power simply based on it's utility.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
Would it again back more health using the shell bell investing in attack then non hp bulk?
I'm thinking Phantom Force is the selling point for giving this thing a niche over Decidueye, unless I'm wrong about Decidueye not getting Phantom Force, in which case, please feel free to light this analysis on fire.
Here's a set I've been playing around with
Relaxed Nature
Item: Assault Vest
252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
Move 1: Anchor Shot
Move 2: Phantom Force
Move 3: Rapid Spin
Move 4: Giga Drain/Gyro Ball
Bring it in, smack something with Anchor Shot, and go from there. Beauty of this set is that if your opponent brings a Dhelmise check in on your Anchor Shot, you can switch right back out without fearing a double switch, barring U Turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass. Phantom Force goes hand in glove with Anchor Shot, as they'll be unable to switch into a Normal or Dark type to absorb the blow, making it a safe option. This thing is awesome as a bulky spinner that doesn't give away free turns, so Rapid Spin takes advantage of that. Finally, Giga Drain gives it some kind of recovery to some degree while Gyro Ball hits very hard thanks to getting STAB combined with Dhelmise's horrible speed.
Overall, I feel like this thing will be a God with Trick Room support. To say it's outclassed by Decidueye is totally wrong and a mere product of "shiny new toy syndrome" that Decidueye attracts like a magnet. Dhelmise is definitely underrated and can thrive in the OU environment, either as a stand alone wall/stall breaker or as a Trick Room sweeper, albeit with some support needed.
Here's a set I've been playing around with
Relaxed Nature
Item: Assault Vest
252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
Move 1: Anchor Shot
Move 2: Phantom Force
Move 3: Rapid Spin
Move 4: Giga Drain/Gyro Ball
Bring it in, smack something with Anchor Shot, and go from there. Beauty of this set is that if your opponent brings a Dhelmise check in on your Anchor Shot, you can switch right back out without fearing a double switch, barring U Turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass. Phantom Force goes hand in glove with Anchor Shot, as they'll be unable to switch into a Normal or Dark type to absorb the blow, making it a safe option. This thing is awesome as a bulky spinner that doesn't give away free turns, so Rapid Spin takes advantage of that. Finally, Giga Drain gives it some kind of recovery to some degree while Gyro Ball hits very hard thanks to getting STAB combined with Dhelmise's horrible speed.
Overall, I feel like this thing will be a God with Trick Room support. To say it's outclassed by Decidueye is totally wrong and a mere product of "shiny new toy syndrome" that Decidueye attracts like a magnet. Dhelmise is definitely underrated and can thrive in the OU environment, either as a stand alone wall/stall breaker or as a Trick Room sweeper, albeit with some support needed.
I feel that Leftovers is a better option if you're playing Phantom Force, as it allows for better sustainability than Giga Drain while it doesn't eat up a moveslot.
If you drop the Assault Vest, it also allows Dhelmise to run Toxic in the 4th moveslot (this thing should've learned WoW.) Toxic further abuses PF, and lets you cripple bulky pokémon you trap with Anchor Shot, which lets Dhelmise's teammates win vs random setup sweepers that may try to use you as setup fodder.
I also agree with you in that this thing is very underrated, and operates somewhat differently from Decidueye.
If you drop the Assault Vest, it also allows Dhelmise to run Toxic in the 4th moveslot (this thing should've learned WoW.) Toxic further abuses PF, and lets you cripple bulky pokémon you trap with Anchor Shot, which lets Dhelmise's teammates win vs random setup sweepers that may try to use you as setup fodder.
I also agree with you in that this thing is very underrated, and operates somewhat differently from Decidueye.
That makes sense. My only problem with Leftovers is that this thing's Special D is a bit mediocre, and I'd rather go with Giga Drain while patching up it's Spec D.
I'm thinking Shadow Claw is also an option to reinforce this thing's ability to ward off spin blockers.
This thing is trash and so is Phantom Force and SHell Bell the fact i saw either in this thread makes me sad as a player of pokemon.
It will likely end up in RU (Hell possibly lower i don't know how effective it is in spec RU) but all around its considered ass in UU and is just overhyped in OU where again it is still ass.
It will likely end up in RU (Hell possibly lower i don't know how effective it is in spec RU) but all around its considered ass in UU and is just overhyped in OU where again it is still ass.
WHats wrong with this or phantom force (not gonna argue about shell bell)? I have used Phantom force on a harvest curse trevenant and it would very well as a niche pokemon. Anchor short wit phantom force is a good combo that they cannot switch to something that resists, plus that extra free turn to avoid damage and free leftovers is nice.
It's a Shadow Claw + Protect of sorts given the way Dhelmise can use it.
exactly. You can make the foe waste moves as they are trapped due to anchor shot if you happen to anchor shot the right guy you can stall out for ages thanks to leftovers and Phantom force.
"the right guy" thats the point its so determined on the opposing pokemon that it generally is never the right guy with a plethora of pokemon capable of outpseedig,ourstalling and even setting up on Dhelmise. Its just a gimmicky trap strat that just sounds good on paper and is mediocre in practise
Never underestimate gimmicky, which I do not think this is at all. This thing has a lot better physical bulk then The Owl, and only slightly less Special Bulk, plus a crap ton more Attack so it can hit hard without having to set up, plus gets 3 stabs. How does that make this Anchor worse then the owl?
Namely, lack of reliable recovery. Giga Drain just doesn't make the cut.
I suppose that is true. Still one could work around that and Phantom force stalling with leftovers is not terrible. Like I said it worked very well for my Curse trevenant set with harvest Sitrus berry.
It may be a two-turn move, but during the charge period, you're completely invincible, unlike Dive, Dig, and Fly, which can screw you over if the opponent has Surf, Earthquake, Thunder, or Hurricane. It also ignores Protect, so the only way the opponent can avoid getting hit is to set up a Sub (which will likely be broken immediately) or switch to a Normal type (which they can't do because Anchor Shot).
Here's mine:
Anchors Away
Brave Nature
Item: Leftovers
252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Special Defense
IV: 0 Speed
Move 1: Gyro Ball
Move 2: Phantom Force
Move 3: Rapid Spin / Power Whip
Move 4: Earthquake
1. Brave Nature (+Attack while -Speed) with IV: 0 Speed together with its low speed makes it inevitable to use Gyro Ball
2. Leftovers will cover up Dhelmise's health specially when using Phantom Force it gets a free HP boost
3. 252 investment in Attack to utilize Dhelmise's base attack power
4. 252 investment in HP to utilize battle stability and 4 investment in Special Defense
5. Phantom Force's application same goes to what MSC Knightmare's set is all about
6. Rapid Spin as to spin entry hazards or Power Whip if you already have a spin blocker
7. Earthquake is Dhelmise's main STAB
Anchors Away
Brave Nature
Item: Leftovers
252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Special Defense
IV: 0 Speed
Move 1: Gyro Ball
Move 2: Phantom Force
Move 3: Rapid Spin / Power Whip
Move 4: Earthquake
1. Brave Nature (+Attack while -Speed) with IV: 0 Speed together with its low speed makes it inevitable to use Gyro Ball
2. Leftovers will cover up Dhelmise's health specially when using Phantom Force it gets a free HP boost
3. 252 investment in Attack to utilize Dhelmise's base attack power
4. 252 investment in HP to utilize battle stability and 4 investment in Special Defense
5. Phantom Force's application same goes to what MSC Knightmare's set is all about
6. Rapid Spin as to spin entry hazards or Power Whip if you already have a spin blocker
7. Earthquake is Dhelmise's main STAB
I know people are picking on the Earthquake STAB saying, but I don't get why Gyro Ball over Anchor shot. More damage sometimes, but you lose a lot of utility
And Personally, I say Power whip is much better then rapid spin. If you want Spin, replace earthquake with it
Dhelmise @ Assault Vest
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Power Whip
- Shadow Claw
- Anchor Shot
I've been running this slightly modded version of OP's AV set along with Specs Kyurem and SubDD Mega Gyarados, and I must say it definitely has its niche. At first, I paired it with Specs Magnezone thinking this set would lure Steel-types, so I could trap them with Anchor Shot and then switch into Magnezone, but most Steel-types I found either had U-turn/Volt Switch, Shed Shell, or beat Zone anyway. It was Zone who got replaced, however, as Dhelmise proved its value.
1 IV on Speed ensures it outspeeds M-Sableye, while 152+ Atk guarantees the 2HKO on M-Sab's new recommended spread. Serves mainly as a spinner that can get rid of spinblockers, while dealing with Electric-types and Trick Room teams. It can act as an emergency check to many special threats, beating 1v1 Greninja and Tapu Lele. For reference:
152+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Sableye: 153-180 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 131-155 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
152+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 267-315 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 288-342 (83.9 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (62.3 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Funnily enough, it can trap and beat Amoonguss w/o Foul Play 1v1, should your opponent forget you have Anchor Shot.
152+ Atk Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 170-200 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Power Whip
- Shadow Claw
- Anchor Shot
I've been running this slightly modded version of OP's AV set along with Specs Kyurem and SubDD Mega Gyarados, and I must say it definitely has its niche. At first, I paired it with Specs Magnezone thinking this set would lure Steel-types, so I could trap them with Anchor Shot and then switch into Magnezone, but most Steel-types I found either had U-turn/Volt Switch, Shed Shell, or beat Zone anyway. It was Zone who got replaced, however, as Dhelmise proved its value.
1 IV on Speed ensures it outspeeds M-Sableye, while 152+ Atk guarantees the 2HKO on M-Sab's new recommended spread. Serves mainly as a spinner that can get rid of spinblockers, while dealing with Electric-types and Trick Room teams. It can act as an emergency check to many special threats, beating 1v1 Greninja and Tapu Lele. For reference:
152+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Sableye: 153-180 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 131-155 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
152+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 267-315 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 288-342 (83.9 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (62.3 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Funnily enough, it can trap and beat Amoonguss w/o Foul Play 1v1, should your opponent forget you have Anchor Shot.
152+ Atk Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 170-200 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I agree on anchor shot. Trapping enemies is never a bad thing, and there are some pretty damn slow pokes in this gen so gyro ball got nerfed HARD by that alone.
Base 40 speed isn't even that good of a speed for Gyro Ball; it hits weaker than Anchor Shot on literally every Pokemon that isn't speed invested. And the loss of what pitiful speed you had is relevant; with Brave nature you stop outspeeding Toxapex, and lose the option of outspeeding A. Marowak. And you know, trapping is pretty damn decent. It often puts you in a better situation than a few extra BP.
Last edited:
- Status