Metagame Cross Evolution

Have you done the tiering survey?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • I'll do it later

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
https://pokepast.es/d887485a29b94f81 first team I built of the dlc
:munchlax:
Very bulky Pokémon, can handle most of the spa mons in the tier very well.
:dusclops:
Status immunity + body press + ghost typing and salt cure is a very cool combo. Wisp is a nice move too.
:qwilfish-hisui:
Very good offensive Pokémon that also semi beats clops garg.
:vullaby:
Defogger. Very bulky pivot. Removes hazards too.
:magneton:
Was looking for an electric type and this one is pretty good. Not much to say it’s bulky fire electric steel is good coverage volt switch is cool.
:sandygast:
Went over this like 10 times before I just said fuck it I’m using sandygast cause idk anything else to use.
 

IMakeNoSense

hey it's that one guy who makes art
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey, can we talk about Ursaluna real quick?

No, not the regular one, and especially not that horrendous statspread the evolution gives...
(Stage 3 +40/+10/+30/-30/+5/-5)

...bleh.

I mean, Ursaluna's other form. Because I think Bloodmoon needs some time to shine.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon:
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has a way to break through both the new and the popular Ghost types, with its Mind's Eye ability. I saw a video regarding it's power and I didn't think a Gholdengo could take so much damage from a Normal type move.

Bloodmoon isn't just a Normal type GigaHammer; it makes Normal type moves a Nightmare to switch into.

But even then; did you know it gets VACCUUM WAVE???

Yeah; the Pokemon with 130 SpAttack and Calm Mind gets a priority Fighting type move to kill non-Tsareena sets on Bisharp and other Dark type comrades.

On my phone, don't have the set, but you can run Bloodmoon, Vaccuum Wave, Calm Mind, and Moonlight and in theory, watch stuff FALL.
I called mine Feddy Fazber because it's almost spooky season!

Anyway. Mini nonsensical analysis.
 
Hey, can we talk about Ursaluna real quick?

No, not the regular one, and especially not that horrendous statspread the evolution gives...
(Stage 3 +40/+10/+30/-30/+5/-5)

...bleh.

I mean, Ursaluna's other form. Because I think Bloodmoon needs some time to shine.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon:
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has a way to break through both the new and the popular Ghost types, with its Mind's Eye ability. I saw a video regarding it's power and I didn't think a Gholdengo could take so much damage from a Normal type move.

Bloodmoon isn't just a Normal type GigaHammer; it makes Normal type moves a Nightmare to switch into.

But even then; did you know it gets VACCUUM WAVE???

Yeah; the Pokemon with 130 SpAttack and Calm Mind gets a priority Fighting type move to kill non-Tsareena sets on Bisharp and other Dark type comrades.

On my phone, don't have the set, but you can run Bloodmoon, Vaccuum Wave, Calm Mind, and Moonlight and in theory, watch stuff FALL.
I called mine Feddy Fazber because it's almost spooky season!

Anyway. Mini nonsensical analysis.
If you're talking about as an evolution, it isn't an evolution, and if you just mean running it as a non-cross evolved Pokémon, I don't really think you can justify it. It's slow, relatively weak, and isn't even that bulky to make up for that. Just run Stantler-Toxtricity or Kyogre. I certainly think its going to be good somewhere but I don't think that place is CE.
 

DosDogs

I like Cross Evolution
is a Pre-Contributor
was messing around, saw something about clodsparce here. Would Nosepass be better? Not sure how important defenses are compared to the hp
View attachment 554445
HP is better used than defensive since it provides bulk for both stats, Nosepass is better than bonnily, but both are nil compared to clodsparce, since normal is a much better type than rock defensively and clodsparce has strong HP which I would say is better here.
:dunsparce:
Clodsire (Dunsparce) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Body Press
- Toxic
- Recover
This is the set I use (could use max SpD too)
 
:flying gem: Terastallization is now banned from Cross Evolution! :flying gem:
anaconjaDosDogsin the hills PQRDG smellslikememeZuldaar
TerastallizationBANBANABSDNBBANABS

:flying gem: Tera has proved be be too much for this meta. Tera has several factors that make it too strong. Tera warps all our tiering decisions, we as a council have to account for it in every mon, and sometimes it's what pushes a mon over the top. Another big point is that this meta already changes the types of mons, so changing them again adds unnecessary complexity to matchups and mechanics. The final nail in the coffin is how easy Tera can counter checks, mons like Clodsire, Bisharp, Vivillon, and Calyrex-Shadow can all easily tera to beat checks, either offensively or defensively. So after a lengthly discussion we have moved to vote and ban it.

Nothing stands out as broken in the DLC, so we'll let the meta settle a little, especially with the huge meta change of tera being gone

I hope you all enjoy the new meta in the DLC, can't wait to check out al the new sets, and which old sets survive *cough* *cough* Clodsparce !
Tagging Kris to implement, thx in advance.
Keep forgetting to do this, but here's a follow up to this post:
Tiering survey results! We will be guiding tiering decisions in the coming days/weeks at least partially based on this tiering survey, so without further ado, the results. Percent scores assume a 1 answer translates to 0% support and a 5 answer translates to 100% support.

Enjoyableness: raw: 3.84/5 - percent: 71%
Competitiveness: raw: 3.52/5 - percent: 63%
Tiering action surveys:
:Qwilfish-Hisui: Qwilfish-Hisui: raw: 2.36/5 - percent: 34%
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce: raw: 2.84/5 - percent: 46%
:Bisharp: Bisharp: raw: 3.44/5 - percent: 61%
:Stantler: Stantler: raw: 2.56/5 - percent: 39%
:Ceruledge: Ceruledge (evo): raw: 2.72/5 - percent: 43%
:Lilligant-Hisui: Lilligant-Hisui (evo): raw: 3.167/5 - percent: 54%
:Clodsire: Clodsire (evo): raw: 3.32/5 - percent: 58%
:Kyogre: Kyogre: raw: 3.24/5 - percent: 56%
:Calyrex-Shadow: Calyrex-Shadow: raw: 3.8/5 - percent: 70%

By a decent margin, Calyrex-Shadow had the highest support for some kind of tiering action, with Bisharp and Clodsire trailing behind as distant second and third places. All of these have been at least partially neutered through indirect action such as the re-introduction of some of the DLC1 Pokemon, and directly addressed through the implementation of Tera Clause, so for now we will not be taking action on them.

That said, Kyogre and rain as a whole have been shown to be generally very oppressive in the pre-DLC meta and still extremely threatening in the DLC1 metagame even without Tera, so we may keep an eye on these in the future.

There were also some other direct requests/notes which I will address on behalf of the council:
- BST limit: this has come up several times in the past gens and I will address this in the same way: this is a complex clause that is both completely arbitrary and adds a barrier of entry to the meta that is not immediately clear. If a high BST Pokemon is problematic, we will ban that Pokemon.
- Tera Clause: lol
- Viability Rankings: give it 8 more years
- Unban requests: there were a fairly wide range of unban requests, so I will address at least some of them:
:Sneasel: Sneasel-Base will likely never be returning to the metagame unless there is a significant shift to the Pokedex or metagame. This will likely remain true for DLC2.
:Ursaring: Ursaring is still likely too much for this metagame. A lack of reasonable checks makes it hard to justify letting Ursaring back into the metagame.
:Gholdengo: This is technically on the table, but I can't imagine people being fans of letting this one return. A well-reasoned argument for an unban would help its case immensely.
:Gallade: :Scyther: :Sneasel-Hisui: On the table, but somewhat unlikely.
:Girafarig: On the table.
 
Sneasel-Base will likely never be returning to the metagame unless there is a significant shift to the Pokedex or metagame. This will likely remain true for DLC2.
:Ursaring: Ursaring is still likely too much for this metagame. A lack of reasonable checks makes it hard to justify letting Ursaring back into the metagame.
:Gholdengo: This is technically on the table, but I can't imagine people being fans of letting this one return. A well-reasoned argument for an unban would help its case immensely.
:Gallade: :Scyther: :Sneasel-Hisui: On the table, but somewhat unlikely.
:Girafarig: On the table.
Did you forget to say whether or not :basculin-white-striped: and :miraidon: are on the table for unban or are they so comically broken that it’s obvious that they aren’t.
 
Did you forget to say whether or not :basculin-white-striped: and :miraidon: are on the table for unban or are they so comically broken that it’s obvious that they aren’t.
Miraidon unban was one of the few unbans we asked players about in the survey, and it saw some positive feedback. We will definitely be thinking about it. It was banned originally due to its powerful STAB combo and defensive typing. As we get stronger Ground Pokemon (or otherwise strong offensive/defensive checks), such as Gligar's newly added presence in DLC1, or future Pokemon like Rhydon in DLC2, we may consider unbanning it. However its traits still make it so that it is faster and stronger than a lot of the metagame, so that could still be on the fence.

As for Basculin, this is likely in the same vein as Ursaring. Being insanely strong, decently fast, and powerful moves in its kit like Last Respects means that it will likely continue to outclass everything around it if it returns. If you look at the post where we banned Basculin, all of the points there still stand, and unless something DRASTICALLY changes in DLC2 it will likely remain banned.
 
:Girafarig: On the table.
[/QUOTE]
There's a set I've been wishing I could try out with this

Toxtricity (Girafarig) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Snarl
- Shift Gear
- Taunt

Just the toxtricity-stantler set I used but with higher special attack and better typing
 
https://pokepast.es/09e440d3e06b5fb9 made a new team around the funny munchlax set.
:munchlax:
The funny munchlax set. Not much to say.
:dusclops:
Handles physical ghost and clodsparce (as well as some other clod evos). Does stealth rock too.
:magneton:
Fantastic mon just so fantastic.
:vullaby:
It’s a rapid spinner and it also half checks bisharp tinkaton (and the others). +2 252+ Atk Bisharp Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vullaby: 298-352 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:qwilfish-hisui:
Clodsire evo. Caly s check. Not much else to say.
:sliggoo-hisui:
Needed a kyogre check too.

(also can gf please bring tangela and archen back :mad: )
 
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Tiering time! But before I go over the results for this latest round of tiering, I must announce that in the hills will be leaving the council to focus on leading STAB. In his place, please welcome Dark Koopatrol and Gimlaf.

Girafarig and Scyther are now unbanned, while Kyogre is banned!
:sv/girafarig::sv/scyther::sv/kyogre:

The previous Ice Scales ban is lifted; in its place, evolving into Frosmoth is now restricted!
:Frosmoth:

These slates mostly included Pokemon that were highlighted in the tiering survey, in addition to other previous bans that we felt needed addressing. The ban and unban slates were separate, but both required a 60% vote for action to be taken, excluding ABS votes. In accordance with an agreed-upon convention, the Ice Scales ban vote was also a vote to change the Ice Scales ban to a Frosmoth ban.

Unban slate (format UNB-BAN-ABS):
PokemonanaconjaDark KoopatrolDosDogs GimlafPQRDGsmellslikememeZuldaarAction
MiraidonUNBBANBANBANUNBBANABS4-2-1 BAN
Sneasel-HisuiBANBANABSBANUNBBANABS4-1-2 BAN
GirafarigUNBUNBUNBUNBABSUNBUNB6-0-1 UNB
ScytherUNBUNBABSABSBANUNBABS3-1-3 UNB
GalladeUNBBANBANBANBANUNBBAN2-5-0 BAN
GholdengoBANBANBANBANBANBANBAN0-7-0 BAN
Ice ScalesBANBANBANBANBANBANABS0-6-1 BAN

From this unban slate, Girafarig and Scyther are unbanned; the Ice Scales ban is now a Frosmoth ban; otherwise no change.

Reasonings:
This was the vote that the council was technically most split on, but ultimately Miraidon remains banned - the combination of its offensive typing, speed, and sheer power make it nearly uncheckable. In the best case you're either getting 2HKOed or get forced into a 50/50. While a loss of Tera has undoubtedly hurt Miraidon, it has also arguably made it harder to check.
Much of the same reason as Sneasel - too strong, too fast, great typing.
Loss of Tera means Girafarig is no longer capable of Terastallizing past its checks and overcoming its key weaknesses. In a meta with many common checks to it and where it has lost its best sets/evos, the council was generally unanimous in allowing Girafarig back in.
A combination of a loss of Tera and its poor base typing, prevalence of hazards, and the introduction of common checks brings Scyther down quite a bit from its pre-DLC status. While certain variants may ultimately come out as problematic anyways, the council felt it was appropriate to retest it.
Can turn anything into a near-unstoppable breaker with Sharpness-boosted STABs and coverage on top of giving +90 Atk to second stage evolvers.
This is primarily because of the sheer power of Ghost/Steel Good as Gold, with the high stat bonuses being the cherry on top for a evo that has numerous uniquely powerful traits. Widely distributed Good as Gold is not healthy especially in the current meta rife with Knock Off and hazards spam.
Ice Scales, +290 BST, Quiver Dance access generally speaks for itself. The change to a Frosmoth ban is generally to have tiering more in line with the rest of OMs.

Ban slate (format BAN-DNB-ABS):
Pokemonanaconja Dark Koopatrol DosDogs GimlafPQRDGsmellslikememeZuldaarResult
KyogreDNBBANBANBANBANABSABS4-1-2 BAN
Calyrex-ShadowBANDNBDNBDNBBANDNBABS2-4-1 DNB
BisharpDNBDNBDNBDNBDNBDNBABS0-6-1 DNB
Lilligant-HDNBDNBDNBABSABSABSABS0-3-4 DNB

Reasonings:
While Kyogre has a middling speed tier, its sheer power in the rain makes defensive counterplay relatively specific, as the only "reliable" checks are either Utility Umbrella Sliggoo or Vaporeon evos.
Losing Tera on top of the DLC introducing a number of fairly common checks to Calyrex makes it much less overbearing than it was in a pre-DLC meta.
None of the council thought this was a particularly huge problem to begin with, but Tera clause makes checking Bisharp significantly easier as well.
The meta currently contains a decent amount of defensive counterplay, although its power and movepool may end up becoming concerns down the line.

As such: Girafarig and Scyther are unbanned, Ice Scales is unbanned while Frosmoth is restricted, and Kyogre is banned. Tagging Kris to implement, thanks in advance!
 
(Bold is moves learned by CE)
Nosepass
:sv/NOsepass: -> :chansey:
Stats: 180/45/135/45/130/50
Nosepass has great defensive stats, but is lacking in recovery and poor health. Chansey can fix that by giving a massive 150 HP and 40 special defense, so it is a wall all around. It also gets Soft-Boiled for reliable recovery. Nosepass learns Body Press to take advantage of its defense stat, so we can get rid of Seismic Toss! It also learns a lot of support options such as Thunder Wave, a slow pivoting move via Volt Switch, Taunt to stop setup, and Sand Tomb for trapping. Evolving into chansey gets Probopass access to Heal Bell to cure the status conditions of your party, the aforementioned Soft-Boiled, and Healing Wish, which can restore a sweeper in exchange for losing Nosepass. Here is a set I came up with that takes advantage of its support movepool!
Nosepass @ Air Balloon
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Volt Switch/Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Body Press
- Heal Bell/Healing Wish/Thunder Wave
 
Hey y’all I made a wacky team (use at your own risk) and I’ll explain it briefly https://pokepast.es/8b7a7f00a461db05
:munchlax:
this thing ain’t what it used to be, however I am trying to make it work so.
:primeape:
Torn on this now but the team originally had cyclizar so I had this as a way of providing hazards.
:magneton:
Bully’s eq clod varients, very awesome, very official.
:qwilfish-hisui:
Knock + gunk is a good combination. Hlr is excellent coverage.
:misdreavus:
It sets hazards, very cool. Should prob have mortal for webs and replace:
:ditto:
Oddball pick to not lose to opposing setup. Could replace later idk.
https://pokepast.es/8c631eaf4cf32cda here’s my sycther varient.
 
Back with another set! This time it is...
Cetoddle
:sv/cetoddle: -> :gyarados:
Stats: 183/183/69/75/120/44

Cetoddle is pretty interesting with Gyarados. It's pretty meager defense is patched up with Intimidate, allowing it to be a pretty good hit taker. It could sweep with Belly Drum into Ice Shard or if in trick room, it could use Icicle Crash for more damage. Here is a set showing it as a sweeper!
Cetoddle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Filler (probably a coverage move like Liquidation)
 
Back with another set! This time it is...
Cetoddle
:sv/cetoddle: -> :gyarados:
Stats: 183/183/69/75/120/44
Cetoddle is pretty interesting with Gyarados. It's pretty meager defense is patched up with Intimidate, allowing it to be a pretty good hit taker. It could sweep with Belly Drum into Ice Shard or if in trick room, it could use Icicle Crash for more damage. Here is a set showing it as a sweeper!
Cetoddle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Filler (probably a coverage move like Liquidation)
While I agree with my previous poster that this mon's typing makes it a lot worse than its stats might suggest (Ice is notoriously bad defensively, and Flying doesn't help much, if at all. It can't ever hope to Belly Drum while Stealth Rocks are up), it may have some fringe use on an Aurora Veil team. Although even there I could see other mons being used instead. I'm totally not gonna try and build a Veil team now
I would not take Liquidation as a coverage move, though. Earthquake pairs really well with Ice STAB; alternatively it could use Superpower to nail Clodsparce, if that's still a common mon anyway.


And while I'm here, I might as well show a mon that I've been using since the last (un)bans:
:sv/scyther: :lilligant-hisui:
Uh, how do I even name this...Hisuian Lilliscythe? Scyligant-Hisui?
Typing: Bug/Fighting
Stats: 95/180/105/35/105/180
Lilligant-Hisui (Scyther) @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Night Slash
Thanks to Scyther's unban and Lilligant-Hisui's continued presence, this 180/180 offense monstrosity now exists. It can run Adamant and still outspeed base 159 mons and slower. And then there's Chlorophyll, with which it can outspeed base 135 Scarfers...while at -1 Speed! Take that, Sticky Webs teams! Just when they needed Kyogre the most, it vanished...wait, it would speedtie Timid Specs Ogre without sun and at -1 speed. What the actual f...
Point being: It's fast. Stupendously so. And yet is packs a mean Close Combat on top of that, which could also be amped up by Hustle, if that's your thing. The only saving grace is that both STABs won't do much against Ghost or Flying mons, but that's what the coverage is for. Or you just spam U-Turn with it and keep up the tempo.
This is also not considering that it could run set-up sets (with either Swords Dance or Victory Dance), which might just drop the Bug move doing so.
 
Hi everyone, while next OMoTM is being voted, I cross my fingers CrossEvo is the chosen one!
Meanwhile some sets I'd like to suggest:

:scyther: into :breloom:

Breloom (Scyther) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat / Force Palm
- Dual Wingbeat
- Mach Punch

HP 70 - Atk 200 - Def 100 - SpA 75 - SpD 80 - Spe 140 - BST 665

This thing does hit hard.

:gligar: into :gyarados:

Gyarados (Gligar)
Ability: Intimidate / Moxie
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Crabhammer

HP 140 - Atk 190 - Def 129 - SpA 80 - SpD 145 - Spe 86 - BST 770

It used to be a classic back then. Will it remain legal?
 
Disclaimer: the following program is not sponsored by the CE council, this is just something dumb I came up with. Enjoy.

Hey you! Yeah, you, with the... face. Have you been enjoying Cross Evolution, but find certain Pokemon and playstyles to be too dominating? Do you want to use your favourite Pokemon, but you cannot because it isn't strong enough to cut it in the current meta? Well, do I have the "solution" for you!

Presenting: Cross Evolution UnderUsed, or CE UU for short, a (completely not official) sub-meta of the Cross Evolution OM. Due to this being just a fun little project of mine, this banlist does not impact any CE tiering whatsoever. The bans below remove some of the Pokemon with the highest usage, while also including the banlist from the basegame of Cross Evolution, to allow the possibility for a diverse lower power-level to thrive! Check out the banlist below, and if you are interested, use the Challenge Code provided!


I have managed to convince a few people to try it out, and so this unofficial banlist may be subject to change! Instead of spamming the forum with posts about this unofficial sidegrade of the meta, check back to this post and you may see changes to the banlist, and accompanying changes to the Challenge Code, as the "meta" evolves. Give it a try if you want to, and happy cross-evolving.

Base Forms
Bisharp
Girafarig
Gligar
Magneton
Porygon2
Qwilfish-Hisui
Rhydon
Scyther
Stantler

Evolutions
Ceruledge
Clodsire
Gyarados
Milotic
Persian-Alola
Vivillon

Unevolved Mons
Calyrex-Shadow
Koraidon
Zacian-Crowned

Edit 1: Ban Stantler, Unban Vullaby [2023-10-28]
Edit 2: Ban Girafarig, Ban Vivillon, Unban Arceus-Fairy [2023-10-28]
Edit 3: Hello DLC2! Remove Lilligant-H restrict (as it is now restricted in CE), ban Duraludon, Electabuzz, Magmar and Rhydon [2023-12-16]
Edit 4: Happy New Year! Duraludon has been banned from CE proper, unbanning Magmar and Electabuzz for testing. [2024-01-03]
Edit 5: Unbanning Dusclops, banning Porygon2. [2024-01-14]


Base Forms
Dipplin
Dunsparce
Electabuzz
Kubfu
Magmar
Murkrow
Munchlax
Primeape
Vullaby

Evolutions
Corviknight
Dragonite
Garganacl
Lokix
Samurott-Hisui
Tsareena
Volcarona

Unevolved Mons
Arceus
/challenge gen9crossevolution@@@-Bisharp,-Girafarig,-Gligar,-Magneton,-Porygon2,-Qwilfish-Hisui,-Rhydon,-Scyther,-Stantler,*Ceruledge,*Clodsire,*Gyarados,*Milotic,*Persian-Alola, *Vivillon,*Vivillon-Fancy,*Vivillon-Pokeball,-Calyrex-Shadow,-Koraidon,-Zacian-Crowned
 
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We all know and love Gyarados for being super op but how about Milotic?
Milotic (Psyduck) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast
- Flip Turn
Seems kinda strong tbh
 

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