Chandelure (Analysis)

[Mathghamhain]

(Feel free to be brutal, this is my first analysis)

[Overview]
<p>Chandelure was one of those Pokémon that everyone screamed "broken" about when its stats were first released. Now that the smoke has cleared, this arguably silly looking ghost is still sitting at the top of the list of threats for this year's VGC. The highest non-uber Sp. Attack stat in the game (meaning the highest in the tournament) coupled with being on the strange cusp of a Speed level (slow enough for Trick Room, fast enough for Tailwind) make it an interesting Pokémon to say the least, and definitely something to be prepared for.</p>

[SET 1]
Name: Trick Room Sweeper
Move 1: Trick Room / Hidden Power Ice
Move 2: Protect
Move 3: Heat Wave
Move 4: Shadow Ball
Item: Focus Sash / Ghost Gem
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Flash Fire / Flame Body
EV's: 252 HP/ 252 SpA / 4 SpD

[SET OVERVIEW]
<p>This set is designed to set up Trick Room then stick around and wreak havoc. Flash Fire grants an extra immunity to fire, but Flame Body adds in a chance to burn physical attackers. With its monstrous Special Attack and STAB Shadow Ball, Chandelure makes for a really nice check against Jellicent trying to switch in on Heat Wave. Protect is Chandelure’s only means of staving off its many weaknesses and provides some extra wiggle-room for prediction. If you already have a Pokémon set as your Trick Room setup, Hidden Power Ice is listed for taking on those pesky dragons. Focus Sash is the best item choice for Chandelure as it helps it avoid OHKOs, but Ghost Gem Shadow Ball ensures a OHKO against Jellicent.</p>

[SET 2]
Name: A Ghost’s Headache
Move 1: Imprison
Move 2: Trick Room
Move 3: Heat Wave
Move 4: Shadow Ball
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Timid / Modest
Ability: Flash Fire / Flame Body
EV's: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Speed

[SET OVERVIEW]
<p>While the previous set focuses on the benefits of a slower Chandelure, this set focuses more on a faster threat. Imprison is here if you really want to cause problems for your opponent and suspect you're going up against a Trick Room team, as most Pokémon meant to set up Trick Room also have Shadow Ball. Your choice between Timid or Modest depends purely on how you want Chandelure to work for you. Timid would be your preferred choice but Modest is here for when you just want to go nuts. </p>

[SET 3]
Name: Choice
Move 1: Hidden Power Ice
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Heat Wave
Move 4: Shadow Ball
Item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Nature: Timid / Modest
Ability: Flash Fire / Flame Body
EV's: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Speed

[SET OVERVIEW]
<p>A straight up choice set. Chandelure has the raw power to tear through teams completely. Like all Choice sets this set requires a bit of predictability especially considering everything that Chandelure has to out speed and watch out for, and the lack of Protect is something that Chandelure really misses. Psychic would be your preferred option here as it handles more of Chandelure's threats such as Mienshao or Conkeldurr. Choice Scarf is the best choice here since Chandelure really wants that extra speed to rip apart teams, but Choice Specs grant more OHKOs against your non-Sturdy foes.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Haze or Clear Smog can be used to negate setups but neither are very useful in the first place and are very situational. Flamethrower, Overheat, and Fire Blast are all viable options over Heat Wave since Heat Wave is blocked by Wide Guard. Psychic can be used over Shadow Ball or Energy Ball for coverage against fighting types or Amoongus, but the two Balls (heh) offer better coverage overall. Solarbeam is an option only if Chandelure's partner is running Sunny Day, as that empty turn is too much of a risk. Pain Split is Chandelure’s only option for a recovery move and can help with taking down walls.</p>

[TEAM OPTIONS]
<p>The Trick Room Sweeper really benefits from Conkeldurr as an ally as Chandelure is pretty well afraid of Surf, Earthquake and Rock Slide. Wide Guard mitigates that fear. Whisicott makes for a good ally for the Headache set as it can either set up Tailwind or Sunny Day (or both), as Chandelure really appreciates any boost it can string together.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>The best counter to Chandelure (barring an Imprison from a faster Chandelure) is Hydreigon. Hydreigon resists both of Chandelure's STABs and everything in its movepool barring a Hidden Power Ice or Fighting. Anything with Sucker Punch is also a good choice, as Chandelure is pretty frail. All in all, the best way to counter Chandelure otherwise is to simply outspeed it.</p>

Whew, finished.

 

[JRank]

WoW, Clear Smog, and Pain Split all should be put in other options, (honestly they shouldn't even be in this at all imo) because they have no merit over anything else. HP Ice should be on all sets that have an extra space, and the preferred item is either Focus Sash or Choice Scarf. (maybe Charti, but LO/Lefties/Expert Belt are not good items for it) On the Tailwind set, none of the set up moves would be used. In Tailwind setting up is useless because you have so little time to do anything. And "random" Hidden Power Ice isn't random, it's one of the most used moves on Shandera. (as seen here)

A Choice Scarf set should definitely be added, too. Shadow Tag should not be listed because it has not been released over DW in Japan, which tells us that it probably will not be out here by VGC time. Also, don't operate assuming you will have something it's likely you won't. And Flame Body>Flash Fire because of the Burn chance if you get hit with a contact move.

Also, you need the <p> and </p> tags around every paragraph.

 

[muffinhead]

Agreeing with JRank on most counts. The offensive sets make use of Protect, as it is very important on any Pokemon.

also CHANDELURE NEEDS THIS SET ;-;

@ focus sash, Timid / Modest
~ Heat Wave
~ Shadow Ball
~ Imprison
~ Trick Room

it works just too well to not include, especially since basically all specially-based TR pokes have Shadow Ball, and it is usually the move they will use against Chandelure. Choice Scarf set will need timid 252 speed to outspeed Timid Accelgor by 1 point. (the fastest pokemon in the tier).

edit: JRANK YOU NOOB its <p> and </p>
:P

edit edit: (In the case of Shadow Tag and anyone getting ready to say that Dream World abilities haven't been released yet, keep in mind that the Dream World is being opened up at the end of the month, so Dream World abilities may be legal by the time VGC '11 rolls around)

no, it has not been released at all period. do not give a Pokemon an ability that it does not have.

 

[Mathghamhain]

I asked for brutal, and brutal is what I got I suppose.

It's the end of my work day, so I don't have time to make any major edits until I get home, but hopefully the minor edits I made can tide you over for now...

@JRank I'm leaving Pain Split and WoW in. Personal experience in doubles indicates (to me, at least) that Pain Split is infinitely more useful than Hidden Power Ice when it comes to breaking walls, and WoW is just fun. I still put HP Ice in the sets and removed "random" from the post.

@muffinhead Yeesh, tell me how you really feel why dontcha. March 30th isn't too far off, and at that point I'm really hoping I can rub it in your face. But for now, I concede that you are correct and I am wrong. :D

 

[Huy]

Dream World abilities for Unova pokemon are not legally obtainable legally excepting for Musharna and Darmanitan. There are no overworld sprites for the Unova Pokemon in the game data so they will not be available through the highlink. Do not talk about Dream World abilities in these analyses.

 

[Sixonesix]

I wouldn't count on any 5th gen Dream World abilities being released before VGC, most of the 5th gen pokemon don't even have overworld sprites (in other words, cannot be released in Dream World through Black or White).

Now onto the set. Aside from hitting Carracosta and Seismitoad for 4x damage, Energy Ball really is totally inferior to Shadow Ball. Part of what makes Chandelure so good is the ability to inflict heavy damage on Trick Room users, which are mostly weak to Ghost. If you use Energy Ball over Shadow Ball, you're robbing Chandelure of what it's arguably best at.

There are some Pokemon in VGC that can do well without having Protect. Chandelure is not one of them. With Rock Slide, Earthquake, Hydreigon, etc. all over the place, you need some way to stave them off for even a little bit instead of just taking large amounts of damage from every super-effective attack to touch you. For this reason, I suggest replacing Pain Split / Hidden Power Ice with Protect. Usually if Chandelure is alive and able to use Pain Split, one of its STAB attacks would do just as well. I'm not convinced that the number of situations in which this is not the case is enough to really warrant using Pain Split.
Also, Will-o-wisp is not so much fun when it misses during regionals and costs you a trip, js.

For item choice you should really use Focus Sash or Ghost/Fire Gem. While Focus Sash won't stop you from getting flinched by Rock Slide, it will help you survive an Earthquake or a Dark Pulse from Landorus and Hydreigon. Ghost Gem is the only way Chandelure can OHKO Jellicent.

 

[evan]

Will-o-Wisp can be useful in avoiding Sucker Punches, but I would agree that its shaky accuracy makes it an alltogether weaker option. If you're really worried about Sucker Punch, you can go with Substitute, but that's situational and Protect is generally more useful.

Imprison Chandelure needs to be in this analysis, especially in Bo3 situations where it can potentially shut down and opponent running a full TR team cold.

Really the only moves that Chandelure needs to be running in VGC are Heat Wave, Shadow Ball, Protect/Substitute, Trick Room, Imprison, and HP Ice. Pain Split, Energy Ball, and Will-o-Wisp are just going to waste slots where Chandelure can be doing something better.

As for items, I concur with 616. You should really only be running Sash or one of the attack Gems on Shandera (or a Choice item if that's more your speed).

 

[Mathghamhain]

Alright, ideally I've got it fixed. Hopefully my idealism amidst my caffeine deprivation while at work yesterday can be forgiven.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

The EVs aren't in the right order. For the first (TR Sweeper) set, it should be:

252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD

For the second (A Ghost's Headache), it should be:

252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

For the third (Choice) it should be:

252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

 

[muffinhead]

er, the whole point of imprison Chandelure is to stop TR from going up, and the whole point of TR chandelure is to actually have TR...
Why is HP ice slashed with Trick Room?

 

[Mathghamhain]

@Cosmicexplorer Thanks, should be fixed now.

@muffinhead HP Ice was slashed in the Imprison set as a typo, wasn't supposed to be there. It was slashed on the TR set as an option if you already had another team member to set up Trick Room. But then, if you'd skimmed the set comments, you would have known that.

 

[muffinhead]

i read everything, thanks for editing it ._.

 

[Mathghamhain]

i read everything, thanks for editing it ._.

Thanks. Sorry for the passive-aggressive post. Long weekend ahead and such.

Keep up with the feedback though, I do appreciate it.

 

[evan]

Still have Pain Split mentioned in counters when you talk about Sucker Punchers. Also, there is no reason to have Choice Scarf on Imprison Chandelure. The whole point of the Imprison set is to be flexible which a Choice item completely eliminates. Choice items in general are rather situational and are probably best used to gain a surprise factor in a Best of 3 matchup but not as the primary item choice (unless on a designated Choice set).

Also, Balloon is far too situational to merit a slash on a set. The only reason you'd run balloon is if you have a partner using Earthquake as I can't think of a single mon in the meta who runs Earthquake but not Rock Slide, which hits Chandelure for super effective damage and will pop the balloon. I would relegate Balloon to Other Options if anywhere, though you could make an argument that Balloon could be mentioned on every Pokemon's analysis for this reason.

Lastly, I like Psychic over Energy Ball on a pure Choice set, simply because Fighters like Mienshao and (especially) Conkeldurr are everywhere whereas Seismotoad and Carracosta are very rare. The other threats you would be hitting with Energy Ball are either hit harder with Shadow Ball (Jellicent) or need to be 2HKO'd anyway (Gigalith).

 

[Human]

First of all I think that Modest is the superior nature for Chandelure almost all the time because it does not outspeed anything important with Timid, and beyond that for the second set I believe that the order of moves should be this.

Heat Wave
Shadow Ball
Protect / Imprison
Trick Room

Trick Room can get rid of Trick Room so if you still have your Focus Sash intact after the first turn you can reset it with relative ease and if you use Modest you can still be relatively slow compared to some teams and then set up your own Trick Room if necessary and Protect is almost essential on Chandelure.

I also think that Fire Jewel is normally the superior option for Chandelure for the TR set because of Amoongus being a bigger threat than most of the ghosts which are easily handled by teamates on TR.

 

[Alaka]

First off names need to be straightfoward so the "headache" set needs to just be Imprison.

The primary use of Chandelure in TR is to set it up, so I would unslash Hidden Power, and just mention that a fourth attacking move can be run over TR if something else is setting it up. HP Ice is not the best option for that though since it adds minimal extra coverage, and Dragons are hit only slightly weaker by Shadow Ball.

Overheat needs to be mentioned in the Scarf set because it is the only way Chandelure can 1hko Amoongus, along with adding 1hkos to the genies.

Haze and Clear Smog should be removed completely from the analysis, they are far too situational. I'm inclined to say Pain Split and WoW too, but I can see their utility for opposing Sucker Punches, but mention specifically that that is what they are for.

Finally everything needs to be more in depth, add more substance to your paragraphs.

 

[Subzerosmokerain]

It would be helpful to outline type resistances, weaknesses, and immunities in the topic post. Just to keep the information complete.