I think the community consensus is close-to-unanimous when it comes to which role should be our primary focus for CAP29's role:
a bulky set-up sweeper. There were some other routes provided in this thread that could be compelling, but nothing captured our community's imagination quite like having some decent (or better) bulk paired with a set-up move. I personally find this to be the most convincing route to go, but I'll let those who have already posted in this thread serve as my voice for why I find myself so enamored with the pairing of bulky set-up sweeper with our defective ability concept:
quziel -
"Color Change denies us STAB, which is practically a power decrease after being hit, and gives us the ability to avoid being hit SE twice in a row in most situations. The former quality is one that can be mitigated by setup increasing the power of our attacks, and the latter is best utilized on a bulky mon."
flying moose -
"I think we will have the highest chance of success if we are able to comfortably choose between pivoting and setup roles."
dex18 -
"Because the opponent has the ability to control our typing, being able to defensively boost and then recover through supereffective coverage moves from mons like Zapdos is a super-viable way to ensure CAP 29 a niche in the metagame. I don't think we have the room for frailty in the concept."
shnowshner -
"Notably, this route [setup sweeper] looks to better our matchup with a lot of the defensive Pokemon that hover around the neutral ( / ) zone, those being the likes of Blissey, Slowbro, Hippo, Clefable, and non-Haze Toxapex, among others."
NitioWO -
"A set-up mon is in a unique position to make even chained SE hits less threatening by boosting defenses. But it would still be suspect to the usual pitfalls of defensive set-up: revenge-killing, phazing, and toxic."
snake_rattler -
"Even having one free turn of setup can change the tide of battle when it comes to a setup sweeper, and I think this is a really cool way to work with Color Change, rather than in spite of it."
Pipotchi -
"[Bulky setup sweeping] is something that is immediately pressuring opponents so they cant manipulate typing at will without some kind of repercussion, and most importantly it takes advantage of one of the few things that I consider to be Color Change's redeeming qualities, the inability for the majority of the tier to hit it super effectively twice in a row."
Darek851 -
"[Bulky setup sweeping] makes it quite [difficult] for the opponent to chain two supereffective hits in a row, which is often necessary to force out these bulky threats"
MrDollSteak -
"[Bulky setup sweeping] is one of the most common roles that can forego natural stab in favour of better coverage, and is well suited to the very few marginal benefits of Colour Change, while simultaneously patching up some of the ability's crippling weaknesses"
Amamama -
"[Bulky setup sweeping] inherently plays with the detriments and benefits that Color Change offers and thus looks very pro concept to me."
jas61292 -
"Changing to types that resist opponents movepools provides the perfect opportunity to set up, and with set up, the actual power behind our moves can often end up mattering less than the coverage they provide, with can help mitigate any STAB issues."
All of these reasons (and more) make a pretty convincing case for why being built as a setup sweeper in mind is ideal for CAP29 with Color Change. It leverages the advantages of Color Change and will provide pressure when we're able to successfully manufacture a free turn thanks to our ability. Bulk is a natural pairing with our ability as well, since it allows us to take a super-effective hit, but still take an advantage of the next turn where we can't be KO'd by the same super-effective move.
Moving forward, we'll consider bulky set-up sweeper to be our primary role for CAP29. A few notes on what precisely means: how CAP29 defines its own bulk could be covered through our stats and/or movepool stages; our set-up move(s) could boost offenses, defenses, or both simultaneously; CAP29 is not limited to having set-up sweeping being its only role.
That last point is the one I'd like to elaborate on here. There was also a significant discussion on whether or not CAP29 should be a pivot, and I found that debate to be enthralling. Ultimately, I agree with
2spoopy4u that pivoting, in some form or another, is inevitable for CAP29. We're going to be switching in, hoping to fish for a match-up against another mon with a moveset that we can manufacture a free turn against. But if that goes south, CAP29 is going to be switching out a fair bit too. Furthermore, our natural bulk (that we're adding to compliment Color Change, remember) makes CAP29 a natural fit to switch in, take a hit, and start spinning up momentum thanks to its new typing. Our focus moving forward will be on making a set-up sweeper, yes, but if CAP29 ends up being a pivot in some capacity, I wouldn't consider that a failure. We'll get into the discussion on whether or not CAP29 should have a pivoting move during Moveset Discussion with
SHSP in a couple of weeks, but we don't know enough about CAP29 at this time to say definitively that it won't be a pivot in some form. CM Clefable, BU Corviknight, NP Slowking, NP Slowking-G, CM Tapu Fini, and CM Suicune are all examples of set-up sweepers that are also considered defensive pivot mons. Pivoting and set-up sweeping aren't mutually exclusive for a single mon, so if CAP29 ends up doing some pivoting in some form, I wouldn't consider that to be a failure of this concept. It was inevitable that we would be pivoting in some capacity in the metagame, but what we
can do is choose to focus on set-up sweeping as our primary role for CAP29, which is what we've done in this thread.
With that all being said, I do think there is further ground to explore for what secondary roles might be beneficial for our concept. Let me pose my last question here:
16) With CAP29's creation process being focused on a bulky set-up sweeper, what other roles do you think CAP29 could potentially fulfill in tandem with its ability of Color Change? Remember to use the
CAP Role Compendium to search for other roles. This could include thoughts on how Color Change naturally pairs CAP29 up with the following potential secondary roles: utility (hazards setting, hazard control, cleric, and item manipulation), wallbreaker, offensive pivot, choiced user, priority user, wall, defensive pivot, boost remover, and potential advantages serving on teams with weather or Trick Room.
Go ahead and respond to this question, or any of the other ones in this thread. I don't think any of the responses to Question #16 here will be included officially in the summation post at the end of this thread, but I do think it's important to do a preliminary search into what other secondary roles might suit us. Otherwise, double check the
Generalizations about CAP29 that I posted earlier in this thread and respond to any of these points that you may disagree with.
I'll be closing this thread in 24 hours, so get your final thoughts in before we move to Typing Discussion with
quziel !