CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[Escavalier Royale]

Name: Monotyped Movepool Menace

Description: This Pokemon, while fully competitive, has access to only one typing in its movepool.

Justification: It has been a significant amount of time since the Create-A-Pokemon Project has undergone an unconventional concept. Necturna was certainly unique with a concept based around Sketch, which ended up being an excellent process full of discussions on balancing a Pokemon that could potentially break the metagame. Similarly, through creating a Pokemon with only one typing available in its movepool, we will need to carefully discuss the actualization of a Pokemon that is both correctly balanced while fully competitive.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Basic: Which movepool typings are inherently strong? Which ones are inherently weak? How much does STAB play into this? How much do support moves play into this?
• Basic: Which movepool typings allow Pokemon to "cover" their inherent weaknesses? Which abilities can help mitigate these shortcomings? How does a Pokemon find competitive flexibility when it is inherently restricted?
• Intermediate: Which movepool typings are hard-walled by competitive Pokemon in the metagame? Would overcoming these walls result in our creation being overpowered? Does a Pokemon with significant constraints need a counter?
• Intermediate: How much do stats play into the viability of a manually stunted Pokemon? Do stats need to be skewed significantly in order to compensate for a lack of variety? If so, in what way? If not, are balanced stats valued in the current metagame?
• Advanced: Will a Pokemon with only one typing in its movepool give rise to any specific underused counters? Is this beneficial to the metagame as a whole? Are there specific Pokemon that we can increase the viability of through the creation of this Pokemon?
• Advanced: In what ways can a Pokemon find competitive viability when it has a limited movepool? What characteristics make a Pokemon inherently viable in a metagame?

Explanation: At the risk of dissecting the current state of the Create-A-Pokemon Project, I feel that the past several concepts have played it a bit safe within the CAP Process. That is certainly not a bad thing ― we have learned a significant amount from our previous creations! But through pushing the boundaries of what the CAP Process can accommodate, I feel that we will stumble into some meaningful conversations that will be both memorable and revealing. Giving ourselves a specific constraint will open up our discussions in new and unique ways previously unavailable.

Initially, it may be tempting to "crunch the numbers" and determine the best typing to give a Pokemon with only one type accessible in its movepool. However, I believe we will have a much more hefty discussion attempting to balance our creation within the constraints of our movepool. Selecting the ideal typing may not allow us to buff the Pokemon's other attributes, resulting in a Pokemon that while powerful, is neither powerful nor meaningful enough to thrive in the metagame. Through carefully discussing and selecting a single movepool typing, we will set on the much more complicated and enjoyable task of finding the right balance on such an artificially restricted Pokemon.

Note that the concept is left extremely open-ended. The typing we choose for our Pokemon's movepool may not be STAB. Our creation may have two typings. This Pokemon may even, through our own admission, have a few moves that are not within the typing of its movepool. But all of these points, particularly the last one, excite me from a creation standpoint. If we have made it to the place in our conversations that we have deemed it IMPOSSIBLE to create a competitively balanced and viable Pokemon with only a single type movepool, that means that our discussions went so in-depth, that they exhausted all other possible options. I feel that this concept will find interesting twists and turns at each step of the process, despite the constraints it puts on the process. There is much to discuss through the selection of an unconventional concept such as this one at each and every competitive stage, from deciding the solitary movepool typing down to the inclusions and omissions of its movepool.

As a final note, I encourage you to re-read the questions listed above: they are specifically designed to demonstrate intrigue and the depth of discussion available through the concept. Thank you for reading!

Okay, guy, a Pokémon with only one type in its movepool is not only very unrealistic (this isn't gen 1 anymore), but WILL be unviable.

Unless we give it, like, Scrappy Boomburst with Mega Rayquaza's stats.

It could MAYBE become a wall that doesn't really need moves, but then you're taking away the purpose of only having 1 type available in your movepool.

Also, Hidden Power called.

 

[Professor Mesquite]

Discussing Monotyped Movepool Menace and responding to CorruptionInTheGovernment

Not necessarily, they might have one move typing and NO STAB. That sounds like a painful Pokémon to play though, having zero STAB moves. I assume it would have STAB if that concept was chosen though. The types with no immunities against are: Flying, Rock, Dark. That’s it- here’s why:
Fire-Flash Fire
Water-Water Absorb/Storm Drain/Dry Skin
Grass-Sap Sipper
Normal-Ghost
Fighting-Ghost
Ghost-Normal
Ground-Flying/Levitate
Electric-Ground/Lightning Rod/Motor Drive/Volt Absorb
Dragon-Fairy
Poison-Steel
Psychic-Dark

Bug, Fairy, Ice, Steel-Shedinja

So Flying, Rock, Dark:
We have Tomohawk, so we should probably look elsewhere- so the best Flying concept for sweeping would probably have to be similar to Talonflame. Stakataka and Golem Alola would see bumps as they have 4x Flying resistance and are fairly good.
For Rock, I just can’t imagine a niche it could fill that isn’t satisfied. Lycanroc Dusk gives nice priority, Strategem gives Special Damage, Tyranitar is brute strength, and Regirock walls. I like rock, but a CAP focused on it would end up too similar.
For Dark, I only need utter one name. Kerfluffle. We just got it, and will make a mono-Dark unpopular real fast.

This doesn’t mean this is a bad idea- Shedinja breaks a lot of concepts and metas. I would love a mono-Steel so Klinklang isn’t so lonely, or a cool ghost, but this seems like play with it would spike, and then be forgotten.


Sorry if this sounded overly critical, but back in my old BH days I loved gimmick teams. I ran many single-type-only ones (Ice, Ghost, Steel), and while sometimes they destroyed everything, many times they’d run into an uncounterable Pokemon (PDon!), and I’d hate for CAP24 to have that same experience. This isn’t a review per se, but a thought experiment regarding the topic.

 

[Okamu]

'Mon in the mirror- Please expand more on this concept if you want actual feedback

Alright, finally had the time to sit down and finish it out. So, uh, I guess required changes were made? >.>

 

[Professor Mesquite]

Okay, guy, a Pokémon with only one type in its movepool is not only very unrealistic (this isn't gen 1 anymore), but WILL be unviable.

Unless we give it, like, Scrappy Boomburst with Mega Rayquaza's stats.

It could MAYBE become a wall that doesn't really need moves, but then you're taking away the purpose of only having 1 type available in your movepool.

Also, Hidden Power called.

“All Pokémon who can learn TMs can learn Hidden Power except Wobbuffet,
Wynaut, Kricketot, Tynamo, Spewpa, and Pyukumuku.”

No reason it can’t be included. Also I love thinking about this horror beginning to sweep and then “Prankster Disable!” popping up and wrecking it.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

“All Pokémon who can learn TMs can learn Hidden Power except Wobbuffet,
Wynaut, Kricketot, Tynamo, Spewpa, and Pyukumuku.”

No reason it can’t be included.

All those Pokémon fall under either of these categories:
1)Terrible early-game non-evolved Bugs who have less than 10 moves in their movepool
2)Pokémon who are made to only utilize one gimmick (CounterCoat and some support options) without any offensive presence other than that
3)Literally the most passive Pokémon of them all, I mean even Shuckle has more offensive presence than that sea cucumber
4)Tynamo is a special category, I believe GF wanted to give it almost no moves to make it very hard to raise because with no weaknesses it is very good in the story

 

[Take Azelfie]

Okay, guy, a Pokémon with only one type in its movepool is not only very unrealistic (this isn't gen 1 anymore), but WILL be unviable.

Unless we give it, like, Scrappy Boomburst with Mega Rayquaza's stats.

It could MAYBE become a wall that doesn't really need moves, but then you're taking away the purpose of only having 1 type available in your movepool.

Also, Hidden Power called.

Clefable, Landorus, (OU) Crobat, and Suicune (UU) are all very good examples of Pokemon that can function with only one solid attacking move so your point is null as all the Pokemon mentioned can perform there task effectively with only one move. These would be good Pokemon to look at for the concept since their success thrives on the combination of every other aspect about them. Your thinking is very one dimensional and you should look at all the possibilities of success outside of just "it has to be strong" and Hidden Power can be there but what if it's physical? That won't break the nature of the concept since it won't use it either way.

 

[Professor Mesquite]

The issue is the sheer amount of immunity/4x resistance mons that are both good and valid in the meta. Clefable and Suicine would both be wrecked Mollux. Crobat is best with Gunk Shot/Brave Bird, and if it doesn't carry both, carries U-Turn. If it really is a mono-type movepool, unless it is Bug, it won't have U-Turn. The problem isn't with Single Type, but that there is just one Single Type. If during creation it could decide the type to use, it wouldn't be so polarizing- but if we decide ONE type to receive this treatment, the response it will receive will simply shut it down. My view is not that it is unviable, but that if we make it good, there will only be two sides- CAP24, and the Immune/4x Resist mons to counter it.

 

[snake]

Clefable, Landorus, (OU) Crobat, and Suicune (UU) are all very good examples of Pokemon that can function with only one solid attacking move so your point is null as all the Pokemon mentioned can perform there task effectively with only one move. These would be good Pokemon to look at for the concept since their success thrives on the combination of every other aspect about them. Your thinking is very one dimensional and you should look at all the possibilities of success outside of just "it has to be strong" and Hidden Power can be there but what if it's physical? That won't break the nature of the concept since it won't use it either way.

Not that I support Birkal's concept (I think it's interesting, but overly restrictive), but the concept says that the entire movepool can be of only one type, which none of these examples accomplish. Clefable may mono-attack with only Moonblast (Fairy), but it usually runs Softboiled (Normal), Thunder Wave (Electric), Stealth Rock (Rock), etc. Suicune runs Scald (Water) and Rest (Psychic). But Crobat does come close with Brave Bird / Defog / Roost.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

I decided to make a list of stuff that (hard) counters every type for MonoMovepool (I decided to use stuff that's ranked fairly high on the VR):

Normal: Any Ghost type (Alolawak, Necturna, MegaSab,...) or if we use Scrappy, Rock or Steel types (Kartana if it's physical, Stakataka, Naviathan...)

Fighting: Any Ghost type (see above), or if we use Scrappy, bulky Fairy-, Poison- and Psychic-types (Clefable, Fidgit, Mew, Tapu Lele...)

Flying: Bulky Flying-resists, like Magearna, Celesteela and Cyclohm are very common

Grass: While Sap Sipper mons are very uncommon, some of the best walls/defensive pivots in the meta like Cyclohm, Skarmory, Celesteela, Tangrowth and defensive Magearna don't care about Grass moves at all.

Fire: Heatran. If we account for Mold Breaker, Rotom-W, Cyclohm and Toxapex do the job very well too. Not to mention it gives free switches to threats like Volkraken and Heatproof Naviathan.

Water: Mollux. Mold Breakers can't deal with Toxapex, Tangrowth and Tapu Fini.

Electric: ANY Ground-type. Cyclohm works too. Also, you give a free switch and setup opportunity to Cawmodore if you don't have Mold Breaker.

Bug: Tomohawk, Kerfluffle, Celesteela, Magearna, Zard Y and Skarmory 4x resist it, and 2x resists are also very common. Bug gets U-Turn though, so it may as well be the most viable type for this concept.

Poison: ANY Steel-type. Mega Scizor, Heatran, Kartana,... Same Cawmodore argument but this time Mold Breaker can't save you.

Ground: FFS The two S-Ranks are both immune to it.

Rock: Rock is a very solid offensive type, but stuff like Magearna, Zygarde, Colossoil and Arghonaut don't really care about it.

Psychic: ANY Dark-type. MegaSab, Colossoil, (Ash-)Greninja,...

Ghost: ANY Normal-type. Chansey is the only one that manages to get an A Rank on the VR though.

Ice: Resists like Magearna, Keldeo, Naviathan and Toxapex are very common.

Dragon: ANY Fairy-type. Clefable, Kerfluffle, Magearna,... Stuff like Celesteela will work too.

Dark: Magearna, Clefable, Fini, Colossoil...

Steel: lol offensive steel
For real though, any bulky water without a secondary type weak to Steel (and even then, they'll probably stick around). Bulky fellow Steels work too.

Fairy: Resists like Magearna, Ferrothorn, Fidgit, Pyroak...

Tl;dr, this Pokémon will fail to leave any relevant impact on the tier. If it were to become Ghost-tyoe it may cause a slight increase in Normak-types, but that's about it.

Also snake_rattler I think he means only attacking options have to be the same type, otherwise it'd be even more restrictive.

I have read the questions and they showed that Birkal clearly put a lot of time in the concept, and on paper it sounds good and all, but in the actual meta, this mon would be outclassed and walled to Terminal Dogma and back.

 

[Professor Mesquite]

Tl;dr, this Pokémon will fail to leave any relevant impact on the tier. If it were to become Ghost-tyoe it may cause a slight increase in Normal-types, but that's about it.

This. I’m afraid any mono-movepool typing we settle on will get forgotten the moment its counters spike in usage. Too many types have too many hard counters. [If we say Thousand Arrows is okay just this once Sheer Force ground wouldn’t be bad, but it’d be Landorus again]

 

[Professor Mesquite]

For the Cooler Daniel, I had a conversation with Drapionswing. In your guys’s opinion, is there any of it I should include in my explanation, or is it to specific that it shouldn’t?

https://pastebin.com/P5gYk2PB

 

[Deck Knight]

As far as Birkal's concept, it is somewhat restrictive practically, but it's hardly unviable or impossible to pull off, and would be an interesting challenge.

What people are missing is that it really comes down to support movepool. Some types have good ones, some are awful. Normal, Bug, Dark, Flying, Ice, Psychic, and Rock are decent. Grass would have been excellent last Gen but it's so-so now. Ground has uh, Spikes and Shore Up. Fighting is more versatile than you'd think. Dragon is abyssmal though.

Abilities seem straightforward for most selections depending om resistances or ability-based immunities, but those aren't prescriptive.

But it's ultimately up to Drapionswing if he wants to include it.

 

[Linkin Karp]

Name: Monotyped Movepool Menace

Description: This Pokemon, while fully competitive, has access to only one typing in its movepool.

Justification: It has been a significant amount of time since the Create-A-Pokemon Project has undergone an unconventional concept. Necturna was certainly unique with a concept based around Sketch, which ended up being an excellent process full of discussions on balancing a Pokemon that could potentially break the metagame. Similarly, through creating a Pokemon with only one typing available in its movepool, we will need to carefully discuss the actualization of a Pokemon that is both correctly balanced while fully competitive.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Basic: Which movepool typings are inherently strong? Which ones are inherently weak? How much does STAB play into this? How much do support moves play into this?
• Basic: Which movepool typings allow Pokemon to "cover" their inherent weaknesses? Which abilities can help mitigate these shortcomings? How does a Pokemon find competitive flexibility when it is inherently restricted?
• Intermediate: Which movepool typings are hard-walled by competitive Pokemon in the metagame? Would overcoming these walls result in our creation being overpowered? Does a Pokemon with significant constraints need a counter?
• Intermediate: How much do stats play into the viability of a manually stunted Pokemon? Do stats need to be skewed significantly in order to compensate for a lack of variety? If so, in what way? If not, are balanced stats valued in the current metagame?
• Advanced: Will a Pokemon with only one typing in its movepool give rise to any specific underused counters? Is this beneficial to the metagame as a whole? Are there specific Pokemon that we can increase the viability of through the creation of this Pokemon?
• Advanced: In what ways can a Pokemon find competitive viability when it has a limited movepool? What characteristics make a Pokemon inherently viable in a metagame?

Explanation: At the risk of dissecting the current state of the Create-A-Pokemon Project, I feel that the past several concepts have played it a bit safe within the CAP Process. That is certainly not a bad thing ― we have learned a significant amount from our previous creations! But through pushing the boundaries of what the CAP Process can accommodate, I feel that we will stumble into some meaningful conversations that will be both memorable and revealing. Giving ourselves a specific constraint will open up our discussions in new and unique ways previously unavailable.

Initially, it may be tempting to "crunch the numbers" and determine the best typing to give a Pokemon with only one type accessible in its movepool. However, I believe we will have a much more hefty discussion attempting to balance our creation within the constraints of our movepool. Selecting the ideal typing may not allow us to buff the Pokemon's other attributes, resulting in a Pokemon that while powerful, is neither powerful nor meaningful enough to thrive in the metagame. Through carefully discussing and selecting a single movepool typing, we will set on the much more complicated and enjoyable task of finding the right balance on such an artificially restricted Pokemon.

Note that the concept is left extremely open-ended. The typing we choose for our Pokemon's movepool may not be STAB. Our creation may have two typings. This Pokemon may even, through our own admission, have a few moves that are not within the typing of its movepool. But all of these points, particularly the last one, excite me from a creation standpoint. If we have made it to the place in our conversations that we have deemed it IMPOSSIBLE to create a competitively balanced and viable Pokemon with only a single type movepool, that means that our discussions went so in-depth, that they exhausted all other possible options. I feel that this concept will find interesting twists and turns at each step of the process, despite the constraints it puts on the process. There is much to discuss through the selection of an unconventional concept such as this one at each and every competitive stage, from deciding the solitary movepool typing down to the inclusions and omissions of its movepool.

As a final note, I encourage you to re-read the questions listed above: they are specifically designed to demonstrate intrigue and the depth of discussion available through the concept. Thank you for reading!

Wow, this is literally my concept. Did I word mine that badly?

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

How to do that:

Step 1: Give the mon decent SpA and Speed, preferably with usable typing
Step 2: Give it Boomburst

I don't really think we can make a mon "good" at using sound moves other than just giving it good stats. The main reason they are so rarely seen is that the main users of sound moves are pretty bad in the current meta (KommoO is walled by Unaware Clefable and most Celesteela sets, and Mega Gardevoir probably faces the same problems, never used that mon so idk lol)
Which is a shame since sound moves hit line a truck. In gen 6, Swellow only had 50 base SpA, yet its Choice Specs-boosted Boombursts were real nukes.

Kerfluffle was based around using one single move, but could equally have been boiled to 'make it a fast mon'. While it is true that the concept allows for some potential hyper offensive STAB'd Boombursts, there is plenty of utility such as Grass Whistle, Parting Shot, Noble Roar, Metal Sound/Screech, Snarl, Perish Song, Roar.

That the 'main users' have such low usages (sans Parting Shot Kerfluffle) is rather endemic to how under utilized the concept is. There are no boombursters in 1760, Kommo-O gets destroyed by a mon as common as Clefairy/Steela and typically takes your Z move, and M-Gardevoir takes up your mega, as well as taking your typical fairy choice for the team. Thanks for your input, though :)

 

[Canis Majoris]

Added a couple of questions revolving around moves and terrain to my concept (Multi-Terrain Vehicle). That should be my Final Submission.

Personally, I don't really like the "pick an underused move and make a good Pokémon out of it" concepts. While the moves picked are interesting in their own right (Future Sight/Strength Sap/Gravity) I'm not sure they warrant a concept of their own.

On the flip side, I love Hunker Down, as someone who loves Stall in general. I always get a little tingly when the opponent's annoyed at the threat they got in front of them being nigh-unkillable.

Unconventional Warfare is interesting, and reminds me of Kitsunoh.... or rather, a polar opposite of it. Its purpose is to get opponents to scout, and a wrong prediction could send everything off the table. It's a nice little concept that could get us to grab several interesting little underused moves.

King of Bluffing is also a fun concept, for similar reasons but without having to use those underused moves. Unpredictability is something that's severely lacking in terms of Pokémon, as with most you can figure out what they're gonna do more or less through the team they're in (and sometimes, even outside of that since they're so one-note!)

 

[Birkal]

To start off, I had a great conversation with Linkin Karp on the CAP Discord, which y’all should definitely join if you want to get the most from CAP. Basically, I believe that the concepts are significantly different enough to both exist. That being said, I am also 100% willing to rescind my concept should Linkin Karp (or anyone) request that I do so. But as others have pointed out, The Bishop is a relatively standard concept, whereas MMM is one of the most restrictive concepts in CAP by my own admission. Neither is inherently good nor bad, just that they are different.


I am happy to read the discussion here on the forum that resulted from my concept — that is enough of a win in my book! As I forecasted in my explanation, it is tempting to try to “brute force” the concept by eliminating other options. But I think the potential discussions go much deeper than that. It is a bit naive to dismiss an entire typing due to the existence of one Pokémon (Heatran / Mollux) for two reasons. First, it leads to a great discussion on the difference between a counter and a Pokémon that you can do literally nothing against, and how balancing a Pokémon plays into that difference. Second, and less significantly, it discounts abilities in the process.

The best typing may not necessarily equate to the best journey nor the best end product. Even something like discounting a type due to Tomohawk (or much worse, Shedinja) is way oversimplifying this. I am happy there is discussion on this, but I also don’t believe the concept can be “solved” by a single post. The discussion and theorymon of the concept are what I find to be exciting about the process!

As a final note, I intentionally did not mention universal moves like Substitute and Protect in the concept. I will not make a decision either way on their inclusion or exclusion — I think that is something for the TL and community to discuss, which is again another discussion I would certainly find interesting!

 

[SirSalad 9132]

Name: The True Water Counter

Description: This Pokemon is designed to easily destroy any annoying water types that the opponent may bring.

Justification: Target - It is easy for people to carry a rain team and still cover their weaknesses. Many people use them so I am trying to get people to use other weather effects or other Pokemon. Water types in general just really do an amazing job and the metagame will be more balanced.

Questions to be answered -

• What will other people bring to battle when this Pokemon as a chance of being brought?
• Will other weather effects rise in popularity?
• Will other Pokemon have their spot in the metagame?
• Is it worth to bring certain Pokemon when they can easily get shutdown by one Pokemon?
• Can you bring your own rain team to counter your opponents?
• Can you bring other weather teams to support this Pokemon?

Explanation: Okay, I think we all know how powerful the water type is. There is a mixture of bulk and offense in the type and it is the most used type out of all Pokemon. With pelipper getting drizzle and hurricane, rain teams have been growing and Pokemon like kingdra and mega swampert can run through your team. Scarfed keldeo can also be a big issue as it can outspeed most Pokemon and Ash greninja has so much power with a diverse movepool and good stats. Toxapex and suicune are also big annoyances since they are so bulky and toxapex can't be whittled down by poison, unless you use corrosion, which only three Pokemon get and all three of them are weak to water. Certain Pokemon may be brought from lower tiers to deal with this Pokemon and other weather effects may rise in usage.

 

[Professor Mesquite]

Name: The True Water Counter

Description: This Pokemon is designed to easily destroy any annoying water types that the opponent may bring.

Justification: Target - It is easy for people to carry a rain team and still cover their weaknesses. Many people use them so I am trying to get people to use other weather effects or other Pokemon. Water types in general just really do an amazing job and the metagame will be more balanced.

Questions to be answered -

• What will other people bring to battle when this Pokemon as a chance of being brought?
• Will other weather effects rise in popularity?
• Will other Pokemon have their spot in the metagame?
• Is it worth to bring certain Pokemon when they can easily get shutdown by one Pokemon?
• Can you bring your own rain team to counter your opponents?
• Can you bring other weather teams to support this Pokemon?

Explanation: Okay, I think we all know how powerful the water type is. There is a mixture of bulk and offense in the type and it is the most used type out of all Pokemon. With pelipper getting drizzle and hurricane, rain teams have been growing and Pokemon like kingdra and mega swampert can run through your team. Scarfed keldeo can also be a big issue as it can outspeed most Pokemon and Ash greninja has so much power with a diverse movepool and good stats. Toxapex and suicune are also big annoyances since they are so bulky and toxapex can't be whittled down by poison, unless you use corrosion, which only three Pokemon get and all three of them are weak to water. Certain Pokemon may be brought from lower tiers to deal with this Pokemon and other weather effects may rise in usage.

A target on Water would be very nice, but in my own experience, SnowWarning Alolan-Ninetales with Freeze-Dry can be a very good Rain/Water counter. Otherwise, Revenankh has Air Lock, and TrickRoom Fidgit is great when being outsped. I like the concept of targeting Water, but why not expand the concept to target all popular types? Or if rain is the problem, a CAP that can defeat weather teams? I like the idea of balancing out Water [Two weaknesses, four resists!], but I don't know if an explicit counter to the type is what we need, rather than a counter to abusing Pokemon.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Name: Monotyped Movepool Menace

Description: This Pokemon, while fully competitive, has access to only one typing in its movepool.

I think you need to be more specific with this topic. We largely know what competitive mons that only use one typing of attack look like. They usually result in mons like Skarmory, Toxapex, Alomomola, etc. In other words, utility mons and defensive mons.

Furthermore, even specifying that the Mon has to be offensive, we still have an excellent example of that in Mega Pinsir. While Pinsir does get two good coverage moves in CC and EQ, it generally doesn't end up clicking those moves. You generally don't want to set up while things like Plasmanta and Cyclohm are available to the opponent even with EQ, because Cyclohm still tanks and Plas could outspeed depending on set. As it turns out, Flying with coverage of yet-more-Flying is actually good thanks to Flying just being overwhelmingly good against the CAP metagame, prompting an entire concept built around reducing it's share of the meta.

I would address what role you want this Mon to fill in the metagame and how it should different from mons that already mono-attack.

 

[Sereg]

Okay. Thoughts on other concepts:

The Gambit: I'm not overly fond of the idea of specialising a pokemon in suicide attacking, though, admittedly, it could give us a chance to play with some fun options.

Focus in the DPS: Submissions like this tend to sound too much like "make a powerful pokemon" to me. Here, at least, it's restricting to targeting certain roles and to encourage a change in the metagame pace, but it still tends to be "Make a pokemon that is almost a must on any stall team".

These Shackles Make Me Mortal: These kind of pokemon can be quite fun, but the process can be hampered by accidentally chosing a weakness that is dull, inconsequential, overwhelming or too small to compensate for large strengths.

The Super Stat Boost Thief: This has potential to be a lot of fun, though Haze Tomohawk may make its nche less viable. Then again, it could b a hazehawk alternative.

Fuerza Terrenal: Abusing Nature Power could be a lot of fun. I think this would be difficult to get right, but has a lot of potential should we get it right.

Down the Drain: Strength Sap is a really cool move. Admittedly, having been sread around makes this concept less appealing than last time, but it's still a fun, cool idea with lots of potential.




Save Me from The Darkness: Basically Cyclohm 2.0. The fact that we can choose new abilities makes this less of a problem than with other repeat projects, but it's still worth considering. Still, bringing in new abilities is always fun. Might mess with the process though, unless we reorder it.

Lower Stat Booster: This has a lot of similarities with Naviathan, but I think the difference is significant. Basically, I see this as being a revenge-killer with no stat boosting moves on the one side, and a set-up sweeper on the other side. I think it could be interesting and, Naviathan showed it is a challenge, yet possible.

Berserker: This is a cool concept and it certainly is the right time to submit it, now that Berserk is a thing. Of course, Blaze and clones are also an option.

The Flat Earther: I must admit that I do like getting new archetypes that play differently, using unusual strategies, fied effects and unusual moves. As such, this does appeal to me. Difficult to pull off though.

Inverse Battler: Naturally, this is particularly hard to pull off. It would have to have amazing coverage and probably poor STAB. Maybe something like a Fire, Rock or Ground type with Dry Skin, a Fairy weak typing with Steelworker, something with a Blaze-clone/-ate on an unusual typing or something with Filter/Solid Rock? Very hard to pull off, but could be interesting at least.

Decentralizer V2: As said, this is basically Argohnaut and we already saw what happened there. It's also very much a temporary concept, which I dislike.

Hunker Down: This is cool. As said, the abilities required exist, but this has yet to be pulled off well and it would be cool to see it realised.

Multi-Attack User: Spreading an unusual move around is cool as I implied earlier. I must admit that I find Multi-Attack less interesting than some other options, but as long as we're careful to make it distinct from Silvally, it could be interesting.

This Isn't Normal! / Unconventional Warfare: While a Normalize mon would be cool, the submission is a bit vague. That said, it describes exactly the kind of thing I like to see from CAP, so that's good.

New Toy Syndrome: A lot of potential fun here. I think most of the new mechanics are used though? That said, there are exceptions, which would be fun to explore.

The Future is Bright: Those are certainly interesting moves to base around, even if I prefer, say, Strength Sap. Still, it would result in an interesting mon if pulled off well.

King of Bluffing: I like this kind of thing. We've partially done this kind of thing before with Naviathan, but we would go in a different direction here, which is nice. That said, the similarity to Naviathan is a minor point against it.

Scizor of the Sun: Personally, I think this is a cool idea. That said, as has been mentioned, this will be harder for Sun than the equivalent in rain. I think it could be worth trying though.

Master Poisoner: I agree that there is a lot of fun stuff we can do here. Several moves and abilities work well with this and it would give an entertaining result, especially for someone like me who likes poisoning.

Z-Utility Toolbox: This is great. It explores a cool mechanic usually used for nukes to try entertaining and interesting strategies.

Re-centraliser: IMO, this is basically just Decentraliser V2, with th same problems.

Mon in the Mirror: It's a cool move. Its nature does make the other aspects of the mon less important though (still important. Just less) I think it's a cool idea, but I prefer some other submissions.

Multi-Terrain Vehicle: I love it! I love the idea of abusing multiple terrains and turning terrains into more than Tapu bonuses.

Nothing Special: The problem with this is that it is inherently designed to make a mon uninteresting with as few interesting points to talk about as possible. There's also the debate as to what "special" is. A mon is not going to be used if something outclasses it and it cannot outclass other mons without that MAKING it special.


The Elemental Chameleon: A pokemon that adapts itself so much during a match is very appealing to me. Partly why I like Greninja. And we can go in a very different direction. I like this one a lot.

Bravest of All: I like abilities, so the focus on them is good for me. I think this would require a different order for our process to be most effective though.

Deterring Hazard Layers: This is certainly an interesting concept. Quite difficult to manage though. Still, if pulled off, it would be an interesting result.

The Bishop: I like trying to build a good mon off a difficult restriction, so that appeals to me. ifficult, but rewarding to pull off.

A Coat of Many Colors: The diversity of sets and the use of an obscure item both appeal to me. I see this as a chance to build a mon with a poor defensive tying that still succeeds anyway. I think Unburden and Harvest work well with this.

Once Bitten, Twice Shy: I do like forcing your opponent to stop just spamming strong attacks and forcing them to think more. As such, this does appeal to me a lot.

Glue it together: A bit complicated, but should result in cool matches if pulled off

Snow or Shine (or Sand): Buffing lessor used weathrs and adaptability both appeal to me. I think this is a really cool idea.

The Cooler Daniel: This should create a very fun mon with an unusual niche so I suort this.

This Isn't Even My Final Form: I think by CAP rules, this forces us to make a mega. I LIKE megas, so that's fine for me, but it might not be ideal for your basic idea.

Going Solo: While this is an interesting idea, there are so many single typed pokemon that it looks less challenging ad less of an oppertunity to learn.

No Fly Zone: Targeting a tying is far better than targeting a specific pokemon as it's a broader and ore permanent thing. As you said, our two biggest threats are part flying, making this a good choice. Not my favouite, but a solid idea.

The Social Butterfly: This is far better than going for a specific core, however, fitting into so many cores runs into the "make a good pokemon" problem. If we can find a way to build it around synergy itself though, that could be cool.

The Stabless: As I submitted an identical concet last time, I obviously aprove.


Unpredictable-ish: Basically like This Isn't Even My Final Form, but less clear.

From Nobody To Nightmare: I LOVE concepts like this.

New Dog, Old Trick: So ... you want to create a pokemon that does something done by another pokemon? That's inherently a rehash we'll learn nothing from.

Good Vibrations: That's a cool move category to specialise in, though some other specialisation concepts are more interesting to me. It still could be cool though.

Monotyped Movepool Menace: As said, this is basically another submission taken to an extreme. If pulled off, it would be very rewarding, but maybe a bit much.

The True Water Counter: This is an equivalent of No Fly Zone for a different type. As such, it is solid, yet No Fly Zone has juicier targets.

 

[Drapionswing]

Going Solo - This is a well constructed concept, when evaluating this concept I see a slight limitation that is easily overcome through the other amazing typings in the game. This then opens up a lot of possibilities in other stages to "make up" for anything missing from being single typed.

No Fly Zone - A lot of Decentralization concepts have been submitted. What I don't like about this concept is that it affects Pokemon that aren't necessarily problems in the metagame. Cawmodore, Zapdos, Pinsir, Skarmory. Which brings it down for me over other concepts.

The Social Butterfly - Interesting concept, but your questions are very vague lacking direct correlation to the concept. I would definitely work on this.

The Stabless - Not a fan of this concept, as it prevents the Pokemon from having a very key part of attacking: STAB. Defensive Pokemon can pull this off as the main objective is to wall, not damage. Whereas an offensive Pokemon needs that damage. I don't see the educational value in this.

Unpredictable-ish - Form change is not going to happen during this CAP. Now for a multipurpose Pokemon that is plausible. Your questions lack directness, and don't really address your concept.

From Nobody to Nightmare - This concept is very similar to Hunker Down, with a bit more working room. Some of your questions go a little off topic and should be simplified. Other than that I think your concept is fine.

Monotyped Movepool Menace - This concept definitely has extreme limitations, I definitely think this is somewhat doable however. This concept has more Process Value than Metagame value, I think you should explore the metagame value in your concept to add more examples. Whilst also using mono attackers in your example to justify this more.

The True Water Counter - Similar to No Fly Zone I think this concept has adverse affects on pokemon that I can't even deem as annoyances. Not only this, but with Generation 5 bringing us one of the more sturdy water checks, that being Mollux due to the nature of the metagame at the time, I think this concept won't result in something entirely healthy for the metagame. Focus your questions around this and explore examples of our current water checks being unable to achieve this as of right now.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

I'm not a fan of Monotype Movepool Menace. What made Necturna so interesting is that it added something to the metagame that wasn't seen before; namely, the move Sketch on a Pokemon not named Smeargle. But while MMM captures the boldness of the Sketch Artist concept, it has very little else in common with it.

That's primarily because unlike Sketch Artist, MMM attempts to be "addition by subtraction". We see how much we can take away from a CAP and still make it viable. There have been "addition by subtraction" concepts before; Mollux is a good example of this. We removed a common feature of a CAP - a traditionally good typing - and tried to make up for it through the other stages. But while we subtracted a good typing from the Pokemon, we added a lot to the process. We got to see an underutilized typing, underutilized STAB moves (Poison! In Gen 5!), and made a Pokemon with unconventional strengths and weaknesses.

MMM really doesn't do any of this. It's "subtraction by subtraction". Not only does it entirely handcuff the movepool stage of the CAP process, it doesn't try to add anything new to the metagame. The MMM will likely only have access to conventional moves (although it could use them in an unconventional manner, maybe a physical/special dual STAB) and will have to be extremely strong in every other area. With MMM, we won't be debating whether or not to have a strong ability, we're all but forced to have them. We're not going to get to debate whether or not to have good stats, we're going to need them. The movepool stage will be finished by Concept Assessment. MMM is marginally compatible with the CAP process, and even if that weren't an issue, I don't see what's enjoyable about it.

I do not believe MMM is a "bad" concept outright; some folks might like the intentionally restrictive nature of it. It's also something that's never really been tried by CAP before; there is a lot to like about it in theory. I like the boldness associated with MMM. I really do; and I'd love to see a bold Concept be selected. But I think MMM is too bold, too unconventional for its own good.

(I've also edited my concept to respond to some of the criticism in this thread! Check it out if you're bored!)

 

[Linkin Karp]

♗ The Bishop ♝

Description - A Pokémon that only has access to a single attacking type, or at most two very redundant ones, enabling it to deal decent damage with its STAB(s) but leaving it unable to hit a large part of the meta for neutral damage.

Justification - As an Actualization concept, this project would let us explore how a Pokémon that has absolutely no way to deal sufficient direct damage to its defensive answers can still thrive without being a sitting duck. This is particularly interesting in a meta where almost every other offensive mon can blow a big hole into its resists with a Z-move. While there have been sets like CroCune or Reflect/Roar Raikou in past generations, these Pokémon always had other viable sets where they carried coverage, which didn't give its counters an entirely free switch before all 4 slots were scouted. Complete lack of other attacking types is an unprecedented restriction, and the goal is to find out how such a Pokémon can still fulfil its role, and what that role would look like.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What tools are needed to make up for CAP24's lack of coverage? How do different utility options for the remaining two or three slots affect how it deals with its resists? In particular, do we allow CAP 24 to deal a lot of indirect damage to its would-be counters, and/or will it end up being more focused on aiding its team rather than damaging everything by itself?
• How offensively inclined can CAP 24 be without being too crippled by its lack of coverage? For instance, could we viably design it as a Choice Band/Specs wallbreaker or a setup sweeper, or is indirect damage mandatory?
• How much does CAP 24 need to rely on its team's help in removing its counters? Can a Pokémon without coverage still work well while its resists are alive, for example by providing utility, chipping them or setting up in their face, or do they have to be eliminated by its teammates for it to do anything meaningful at all?
• What do we need to care about in order to avoid designing CAP 24 as an auto-win/lose at team preview?
• What effect does the choice of type(s) have, not only on potential teammates and counters in the meta but also on synergy with utility? A good example for such synergy would be a Dark-type spinner in older generations, which could dissuade spinblockers from coming in or force them out with the threat of its STAB. On the other hand, if CAP 24's type is resisted by Steel, it wouldn't be able to rely on Toxic to break through its counters, and would have to find other ways to break them or provide meaningful utility in the face of its resists.

Explanation - Over the generations, several Pokémon had viable sets with only a single attacking move, or multiple of the same type. This was in part because all other slots were needed for non-attacking moves (CroCune), but often also because their main STAB was just so much better than other possible coverage (GSC Reflect/Roar Raikou, whose Thunder not only deals damage but also spreads paralysis).
Other mons, particularly wallbreakers, mainly spammed a single attacking move while carrying weak coverage for specific switchins. While not a perfect example due to its way of setting up, which would possibly be broken with any other combination of BST and typing, Serperior comes to mind as a wallbreaker that often forgoes Dragon Pulse, its only way to hit Fire-types, for non-attacking moves such as Leech Seed, Substitute, Taunt and Glare. The latter is even more of a way to aid its team than to set up its own sweep. Another Gen 7 breaker that slightly resembles the concept is Stakataka: its main STAB, Gyro Ball, is resisted by many defensive typings, and (Z-)Stone Edge doesn't hit many of its counters for more than neutral damage. Still, it can not only sweep once its counters are eliminated, but also provide utility in the form of Trick Room to its team.
As evident from these four examples alone, there is a wide range between offense and utility in which CAP 24 can possibly operate, from an utility tank with a very spammable STAB (Raikou) to a singular wincon with little or no ways to support the team (Suicune). On the other hand, CAP 24 faces greater restrictions than either of those mons. Suicune and Raikou can set up more easily because the possibility of an Ice Beam or HP Water initially discourages their counters from switching in before the entire set is revealed, while Serperior and Stakataka can still use HP Fire and Superpower to hit Steel-types, which makes them somewhat less vulnerable to their counters than CAP 24. This project will hopefully allow us to explore which niche a mon can fill best while having absolutely zero coverage.

Rewrote my concept entirely to clarify the goal and somewhat distinguish it from Birkal's concept. I think that it now has about the right amount of boldness and creativity for an experimental Actualization concept: while still providing unprecedented restrictions, it allows for the "addition by subtraction" mentioned in DetroitLolcat's post, enabling a great number of possibilities to actually realize the project in different ways.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, I would appreciate it a lot if some people could go over my submission again!

 

[S. Court]

Focus in the DPS: Submissions like this tend to sound too much like "make a powerful pokemon" to me. Here, at least, it's restricting to targeting certain roles and to encourage a change in the metagame pace, but it still tends to be "Make a pokemon that is almost a must on any stall team".

That's not necessarily the case, Pokemon like Hawlucha or Ash-Greninja puts pressure in Hyper Offense teams, and Mega Lopunny or Mega Alakazam in Psychic Terrain makes a decent enough work to pressure offensive teams, and none of them work properly in stall teams due to not being able to act as roles stall teams need. This CAP could work for Balance team needs a way to put some Pokemon in check to make their defensive backbone works properly. Should this Pokemon act of this way or act as a help for stall teams? Those are things can be discused in concept asessment phase, and if we think stall should not receive a Pokemon like that, we can work around that as well.

 

[Drapionswing]

Hey Guys! We've seen a good bunch of concepts so far, and I'm happy to share my slate option with you all! I decided to pick concepts that were going to allow for an educational process with a lot of options, that way we could benefit as much as possible from both the discussion and end result.

Focus in the DPS by S. Court
These Shackles Make Me Mortal by 2MN
Berserker by Zephias
A Coat of Many Colors by Snorlax in the way
Snow or Shine (or Sand) by Drew

Focus in the DPS - This concept has really peaked my interest, with it looking at targeting cores in an unexplored light I thought this would make for a great educational concept. When targeting cores, we have dedicated roles such as Wallbreakers and Stallbreakers which in turn target defensive Pokemon, however we get to see the differences in targeting offensive cores which puts a really big spin on things.

These Shackles Make Me Mortal - Exploring the strengths and weakness in a Pokemon sounds incredibly simple, however, I think this concept allows for a process in which we can explore a lot of powerful mechanics in the game. With simplicity also comes difficulty, as exploring how well Strengths and Weakness pair together is a hard thing to balance to prevent one from being stronger than the other. But exploring this balancing game will leave us with a great process.

Berserker - Throughout Pokemon we've learned that having a full HP Pokemon is ideal in most scenarios, however, this concept allows us to go beyond that and benefit from the complete opposite of this ideology. With other similar submissions such as The Gambit and Hunker Down gaining a lot of support I decided to slate this concept over them to allow an easier time dealing with going against this norm.

A Coat of Many Colors - As the Pokemon metagames shift ever so drastically throughout generations, it leaves mechanics that are cool and interesting in the dust. I've chosen to slate this concept to potentially act as revival for one of these mechanics. Berries have a lot of defensive usage and even now still get used every now and then to evade super effective attacks, but nowhere near the capacity they used to see. Slating this concept gives potential that we can explore an older mechanic in a newer metagame and potentially make something even greater out of it.

Snow or Shine(or Sand) - Weather has been a vague term largely defined by rain in our metagame, this concept would allow us to carve strong archetypes out of multiple weathers and evaluate not only what makes rain so powerful, but what makes other weathers less appealing. While exploring this concept we can also learn about more effective ways to abuse weather rather than that of offensive tactics, and that in itself brings great educational value to this process.

With that I deem the thread ready to be closed and us ready to move onto the polls!