Other Metagames [Balanced Hackmons up to 02/Oct/2018] Poison Heal Sableye

[yiming_e]

Poison Heal Sableye

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1 Introduction
Balanced Hackmons is one of my favourite metagames as its imagination of combination of Pokémons, abilities and moves. I also like this game because of its low-luck element that would influence the result of one specific battle. For example, one or two critical hits, or one or two flinches would NOT just directly tip the balance in one player’s favour.

The team which is going to be rated, is the one, I say, kind of ‘plagiarised’, from another player. But saying plagiarism is not right, because I did not see the exact details of the original team, and I use regenvest Kyo instead of regenvest Arc in the team. I was defeated by the original team once when I was using another one of the teams that I like, but later on, I went back to 1600’s with this team.

2 Team Detail
This is the detail about the team, and most the reason of moves chosen will be explained.

2.1 Sableye-Mega

Sableye-Mega (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Spiky Shield
- Wish
- Defog​

The most dazzling thing in the team is PH Sableye-Mega. Although the 50/125 physical and 50/115 special endurances are a little bit not enough for the meta where offences are tough, the type combination of dark and ghost is really, really good – immunity to normal, fighting and psychic. Its type combination makes it confident to stand out against most utility Mewtwo-Mega-X’s, unless they set up and use power trip. It can also stand out against a lot of opponents such as Registeel, Tyranitor and Shedinja. By the low species strength of speed of 20, the min speed of Sableye-Mega at LV100 is 40. This feature allows Sableye-Mega to U-turn after most of its opponents’ moves, to make a better match-up.

Spick Shield allows Sableye-Mega to achieve the major status of toxic safely in the first turn, avoiding being knocked or spored or glared or anything else which would lead it to other major status.

The best healing move to coordinate with Protect is Wish. This move allows Sableye-Mega to heal half of its maximum HP to any of its teammates, or itself. Although the amount is small (maximum 152), it is better then nothing. With the healing amount by Poison Heal, it is still a considerable healing amount. I have though about using Shore Up, but this move would be given to another mon in this team, so Wish was the final decision to avoid Imprisoned.

The fourth move was chosen to be Defog as it is not so worried about Steath Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes due to its Poison Heal.

2.2 Kartana

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Power Whip
- Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn​

Needless to say, with the boost of CB and Tough Claws, STAB moves kill anything without set up with super effective, so does VC. By the way, this set kills MMX without defensive boost. I have thought of Tined Lens, however, considering it could not OHKO 106/100 physical endurance. Then, Tough Claws was chosen lastly. Sunsteel is due with Shed.

This mon is improofed by Heatran, which would be discussed at the part of Heatran.

2.3 Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Bolt Strike
- Psychic
- Earth Power​

Sheer Force MMY with Life Orb is the most violent specially attacker I have ever seen. In most of the cases, it is only checked by Imposter Chansey with Eviolite, or Shed.

2.4 Kyogre-Pimal

Kyogre-Primal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Revelation Dance
- Spectral Thief
- Volt Switch
- Sacred Fire​

Regen-Vest Kyo is one of my favourite special pivots. Spc Thieve due with set up and revel dance due with Normalised Ghost. Sacred Fire has 50% chance to kill shed and makes great damage to Registeel without flash fire. I like Volt Switch better than UT, because it does not touch the opponent. Although I know it might be trapped by Lightening Rod or Volt Absorb, or by Zygard with Thousand Waves. But Sableye could go out against Zyg, which means Kyo does not need to stay against Zyg. Min speed allow it to switch after opponent’s move and get a better match up.

2.5 Chansey

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Metal Burst
- Toxic​

Chansey is the only improof to MMY. A healthy Chansey could kill the opposing Chansey if it transforms to my MMY with metal burst if it decides to attack. Whirlwind is to solve the problem of substitution. Toxic is a good idea, as long as the opposing Magic Bounce is killed by Kart or MMY, to the switch in to the opposing transformed Chansey.

2.6 Heatran

Heatran (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Destiny Bond
- Haze
- Searing Shot

OR

Heatran (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Destiny Bond
- Haze
- U-turn​

Heatran plays a very important role in this team. Without this mon, this team would most likely destroyed by a lot of things. First, Heatran has the type steel. Steel type could accept a lot of damage. Since the only weakness of Sableye is fairy, Heatran was chosen to accept fairy attack due to its type. The 1/4 restriction and the goggles make it easily face pixi Diancie with spore. However, it must be attention about the ground.

It is also the improofed one to Kart. Without CB, Kart’s VC could make a damage 60%-70% to Heatran. Although it seems to be a 2HKO, Heatran has the ability Prankster. By shoring up half of its max HP, Heatran would not die after attacked by Kart’s VC. Most opponents would not make the third hit on a Prankster to avoid scarifying Chansey. Then Heatran has the chance to heal itself and to absorb damage once again. By the way, after two times fallen of the opposing Chansey’s speed, the opponent mostly would not risk leaving Chansey on the field, switching must be operated.

There are two choices of set that Heatran can take: The fourth move of UT or the fourth move of Searing Shot. With choosing UT, it needs to be min speed and have full physical attack EV; on the other hand, with the choice of Searing shot, EVs of speed and SPATK need to be full. The first set would make a bet when improofing Kart as it really requires a good prediction.

3 Conclusion
This team has an obvious weakness: No Magic Bounce and No hazard sets. So, it is not so possible for this team to sweep the opponent's whole team by one offensive mon. All mons need to work together to reach the point that make great damage to the opponent and receive the least damage.

Shed on the other hand is another problem to this team. To due with shed, Kart would be forced to switch on and would be easily killed by Endeavor and ExSpeed.

Please do not skimp on making any comments, because all comments are progressive to this team.
Thank you for your patience.

 

[Electrolyte]

Hi there! My rating skills are a little rusty, but I'll try to help you out. Unfortunately, this team does need quite a bit of work, so bear with me as I try to introduce the most efficient suggestions I can.

From a cursory glance, I think the biggest weaknesses your team has is its inability to deal with many common meta threats, and a lack of a general direction. I think it's super neat that you're trying to use Poison Heal Mega Sableye - so I'll try to keep that as a focal point in your team. Because Sableye is a much more niche Pokemon that has limited overall use, it's important that it is supported correctly. This means supplementing its strengths (its ability to be really anti-stall while also serving as a decent check to some top tier threats like MMY and MMX) while covering its weaknesses (Knock Off, -ate, Physical setup, and wallbreakers).

Let's talk about its weaknesses first. The other members of your defensive core (Kyogre and Heatran, Blissey somewhat) deal somewhat well with some of the aforementioned threats. The biggest issue is that POgre's role kind of overlaps with Sableye's; it's a great general special sponge but it doesn't cover anything unique. Heatran, on the other hand, is really not a good Pokemon at all in Balanced Hackmons and, though it does a decent job of checking -ate and setup, your current set does nothing back and is effectively quite useless.

Let's talk Heatran first. I think its slot can be expanded past just a Fairy, setup, and Kartana check. I suggest you use Flash Fire Ferrothorn instead.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Darkinium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot

Set explanation:

Hide

Ferrothorn accomplishes everything that Heatran does, and more. It checks Fairy-types (especially pixilate) even better than Heatran because it's immune to Fire, doesnt have to worry about Ground like Heatran does, it's naturally immune to Spore, and it can afford to run coverage to actually hit Fairy-types super effectively. It still completely Imposter-proofs Kartana, and though it can't remove or nullify setup sweepers as well as Prankster Haze, it won't be dead weight thanks to Parting Shot. Anchor Shot is used as a generally effective, fairly power STAB attack that can also trap weak opponents, giving you time to set Stealth Rock or heal with Shore Up. This combination lets you exert offensive and support pressure. Parting Shot is used in particular to prevent Ferrothorn from being setup bait. Sassy Nature with Leftovers is vital here for the passive recovery, also because it lets Ferrothorn also Imposter-proof Mega Mewtwo Y, and almost always survive the 3HKO from non-LO Ice Beam and Earth Power, so you have a better answer to Imposter than your own Chansey (which is not a good answer at all.) Or, if you are OK with just surviving the 2HKO, you can also run Darkinium Z, which powers up Parting Shot, giving MMY / Kartana / Chansey a second life, and also lets you sponge Knock Off with impunity.

Right off the bat, the improvements are easy to see. Ferrothorn easily checks Fairy-types and -ates, it checks most physical setup sweepers (mainly, PH pokemon that aren't afraid of stall and chansey) simply because they don't run the coverage to hit it, it can set up Stealth Rock to check Shedinja and wear down opposing threats, and it provides type coverage against Fairy-, Dragon-, Water-, Electric-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks that your team desperately needs. Plus, you don't really need to worry about Imposterproofing it because it naturally cannot do very much to Sableye and POgre.

I think just with that change, the team improves vastly. However, some specific movesets can still be improved:

Mega Sableye: Wish -> Shore Up and Spiky Shield -> Core Enforcer. Again, like Heatran, your current Sableye set struggles with not being able to do much besides U-Turn or sit and hope to catch opponents with Spiky Shield. Core Enforcer is vital on PH Mega Sableye because it takes advantage of Sableye's best trait - its slow speed. This lets you nullify PH sweepers and PH walls alike, and makes Sableye generally difficult to deal with. Shore Up is used over Wish because Wish is bad - passing is difficult and not worth it, and the reliability of Shore Up is vital. I might even say go Defog -> Knock Off to give Sableye even more of a disruptive presence since you're not super weak to hazards, but it's up to you.

Chansey: Toxic -> Defog or Final Gambit. Toxic isn't great in BH, and does nothing to help against opposing stall. Plus it only cripples you back if you predict wrong vs Magic Bounce. Defog should be used to clear hazards and let Sableye use Knock Off, or use Final Gambit as a more reliable way to check threats (but don't use Imposter Chansey to imposterproof your own Pokemon...) or one-shot an opposing wall to clear the way for MMY.

Primal Kyogre: Sacred Fire -> Frost Breath. I genuinely think this is a better option because Sacred Fire makes you much more vulnerable to Imposter and it doesn't really do much for the team. I'd argue having Ice coverage is more important to check Mega Ray, which is the new biggest threat to your team after Ferro. You could also run Core Enforcer, but I think Frost Breath is more reliable as it also nails Gira / ZygC and it breaks through bulky setup.


After that, I think most of the team's problems are addressed. This rate is getting quite long so I'll cut it short here, with one final mention that you could also probably do a lot more with Kartana's slot. There isn't anything that stands out to me right now as an obvious replacement, but if you do continue to experiment with this team, I would see that as the next option for improvement. If nothing else, I think you still struggle with stall quite a bit, so I'd suggest Power Whip -> Trick at least, just to give you the option to cripple opposing walls if you can't break them down with force.



Good luck!

 

[morogrim]

Hey there, while taking a look at your team I noticed 2 glaring weaknesses right off the bat along with a few errors in movesets and improofing. PH Regigigas seems to be able to easily 6-0 your team since you have no way of forcing it out other than by hazing on Heatran and then going hard into Kart hoping the Regigigas doesn't set up again or have Lovely Kiss, which really isn't reliable at all. Also, any ground/fighting coverage -ate user easily beats your team after KOing Heatran. Even V-create does around 50% to Heatran if it's coming from Mega Ray. Additionally, I feel like having Wish on Mega Sableye isn't an optimal choice since it only has base 50 HP. Your Chansey also isn't the best improof option for your Mmy since Bolt Strike will always 2HKO after taking minimal chip damage (for instance if rocks are up and Chansey is at 88% before coming in, Bolt Strike is a guaranteed 2HKO). This is a problem especially since your Chansey is Imposter so it will almost never be at full HP. Even Heatran isn't really a good improof option for Kartana since TC boosted Jolly V-create does 64.5% minimum to Heatran, and Imposter will almost always click V-create against your Kartana anyway. While we are on the topic of Kartana, Jolly nature doesn't really help it much since it doesn't get to outspeed anything meaningful with it which means running an Adamant nature is going to be more efficient in most scenarios.

To fix these issues, I have some options listed below with some brief descriptions:

Option 1

brief description

So in this version I replaced Sableye with Giratina (I know this team is supposed to be a PH Mega Sab team but PH Giratina is just such a better fit for the team imo) and replaced Wish + Spiky Shield with Shore Up + Core Enforcer. This way, Giratina is now both a PH Regigigas check and an improof for your Kart. I changed Kart's nature to Adamant and replaced Mmy's Bolt Strike with Seed Flare so that Imposter Chansey can improof easier while still being able to do heavy damage to Pogre. I finally replaced Heatran with Registeel so your matchup vs. -ate becomes slightly better. Now in the worst case scenario you will be able to trade the Registeel with the problematic -ate mon with Dbond without losing a key improof member of the team.

Option 2

brief description

For this version of the team I tried to keep Mega Sab, so what I ended up doing was replace Wish + Defog with Shore Up + Core Enforcer on Sab so the PH Gigas matchup is manageable. You could keep Defog and replace Spiky Shield if you want, but for this team I think Spiky Shield is very valuable since most of your mons don't like getting Koff'd which means most of the time you want to lead Sab and safely activate the Toxic Orb with Spiky Shield. I still chose an Adamant nature on Kart, and kept Bolt Strike on Mmy. For this reason, I changed Chansey from Imposter to Fur Coat so mmy becomes easily improofed while also improving the -ate matchup significantly. Additionally, I have Topsy + Wish on Chansey which means Chansey also counters Normalize Gengar while providing Wish support for the team (trust me, Chansey's Wish is way better than Sab's). Since Sab no longer has Defog and Chansey checks Normgar, I replaced Rev Dance on Pogre with Core Enforcer and Sacred Fire with Rapid Spin. Thanks to Spectral Thief + Core Enforcer, Pogre can now spin pretty well against most teams. If you decide to keep Defog on Sab, you can keep Pogre's old moveset or just replace Rapid Spin with a better move. Finally, I replaced Heatran with Zygarde-C so that your Kart is improofed. I also replaced Dbond on Zyg with Poison Fang so that Zyg isn't a sitting duck vs Belly Drummers and Shell Smash users.

Hope this rate helps and GL on the ladder.

 

[yiming_e]

Hi there! My rating skills are a little rusty, but I'll try to help you out. Unfortunately, this team does need quite a bit of work, so bear with me as I try to introduce the most efficient suggestions I can.

From a cursory glance, I think the biggest weaknesses your team has is its inability to deal with many common meta threats, and a lack of a general direction. I think it's super neat that you're trying to use Poison Heal Mega Sableye - so I'll try to keep that as a focal point in your team. Because Sableye is a much more niche Pokemon that has limited overall use, it's important that it is supported correctly. This means supplementing its strengths (its ability to be really anti-stall while also serving as a decent check to some top tier threats like MMY and MMX) while covering its weaknesses (Knock Off, -ate, Physical setup, and wallbreakers).

Let's talk about its weaknesses first. The other members of your defensive core (Kyogre and Heatran, Blissey somewhat) deal somewhat well with some of the aforementioned threats. The biggest issue is that POgre's role kind of overlaps with Sableye's; it's a great general special sponge but it doesn't cover anything unique. Heatran, on the other hand, is really not a good Pokemon at all in Balanced Hackmons and, though it does a decent job of checking -ate and setup, your current set does nothing back and is effectively quite useless.

Let's talk Heatran first. I think its slot can be expanded past just a Fairy, setup, and Kartana check. I suggest you use Flash Fire Ferrothorn instead.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Darkinium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot

Set explanation:

Hide

Ferrothorn accomplishes everything that Heatran does, and more. It checks Fairy-types (especially pixilate) even better than Heatran because it's immune to Fire, doesnt have to worry about Ground like Heatran does, it's naturally immune to Spore, and it can afford to run coverage to actually hit Fairy-types super effectively. It still completely Imposter-proofs Kartana, and though it can't remove or nullify setup sweepers as well as Prankster Haze, it won't be dead weight thanks to Parting Shot. Anchor Shot is used as a generally effective, fairly power STAB attack that can also trap weak opponents, giving you time to set Stealth Rock or heal with Shore Up. This combination lets you exert offensive and support pressure. Parting Shot is used in particular to prevent Ferrothorn from being setup bait. Sassy Nature with Leftovers is vital here for the passive recovery, also because it lets Ferrothorn also Imposter-proof Mega Mewtwo Y, and almost always survive the 3HKO from non-LO Ice Beam and Earth Power, so you have a better answer to Imposter than your own Chansey (which is not a good answer at all.) Or, if you are OK with just surviving the 2HKO, you can also run Darkinium Z, which powers up Parting Shot, giving MMY / Kartana / Chansey a second life, and also lets you sponge Knock Off with impunity.

Right off the bat, the improvements are easy to see. Ferrothorn easily checks Fairy-types and -ates, it checks most physical setup sweepers (mainly, PH pokemon that aren't afraid of stall and chansey) simply because they don't run the coverage to hit it, it can set up Stealth Rock to check Shedinja and wear down opposing threats, and it provides type coverage against Fairy-, Dragon-, Water-, Electric-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks that your team desperately needs. Plus, you don't really need to worry about Imposterproofing it because it naturally cannot do very much to Sableye and POgre.

I think just with that change, the team improves vastly. However, some specific movesets can still be improved:

Mega Sableye: Wish -> Shore Up and Spiky Shield -> Core Enforcer. Again, like Heatran, your current Sableye set struggles with not being able to do much besides U-Turn or sit and hope to catch opponents with Spiky Shield. Core Enforcer is vital on PH Mega Sableye because it takes advantage of Sableye's best trait - its slow speed. This lets you nullify PH sweepers and PH walls alike, and makes Sableye generally difficult to deal with. Shore Up is used over Wish because Wish is bad - passing is difficult and not worth it, and the reliability of Shore Up is vital. I might even say go Defog -> Knock Off to give Sableye even more of a disruptive presence since you're not super weak to hazards, but it's up to you.

Chansey: Toxic -> Defog or Final Gambit. Toxic isn't great in BH, and does nothing to help against opposing stall. Plus it only cripples you back if you predict wrong vs Magic Bounce. Defog should be used to clear hazards and let Sableye use Knock Off, or use Final Gambit as a more reliable way to check threats (but don't use Imposter Chansey to imposterproof your own Pokemon...) or one-shot an opposing wall to clear the way for MMY.

Primal Kyogre: Sacred Fire -> Frost Breath. I genuinely think this is a better option because Sacred Fire makes you much more vulnerable to Imposter and it doesn't really do much for the team. I'd argue having Ice coverage is more important to check Mega Ray, which is the new biggest threat to your team after Ferro. You could also run Core Enforcer, but I think Frost Breath is more reliable as it also nails Gira / ZygC and it breaks through bulky setup.


After that, I think most of the team's problems are addressed. This rate is getting quite long so I'll cut it short here, with one final mention that you could also probably do a lot more with Kartana's slot. There isn't anything that stands out to me right now as an obvious replacement, but if you do continue to experiment with this team, I would see that as the next option for improvement. If nothing else, I think you still struggle with stall quite a bit, so I'd suggest Power Whip -> Trick at least, just to give you the option to cripple opposing walls if you can't break them down with force.



Good luck!

Thank you very much for your detailed analysis to my team. Your comments are valuable, and I will consider some changes to this team. By the way, this is my first time writing RMT, I am really grateful to your patience. Thank you!

 

[yiming_e]

Hey there, while taking a look at your team I noticed 2 glaring weaknesses right off the bat along with a few errors in movesets and improofing. PH Regigigas seems to be able to easily 6-0 your team since you have no way of forcing it out other than by hazing on Heatran and then going hard into Kart hoping the Regigigas doesn't set up again or have Lovely Kiss, which really isn't reliable at all. Also, any ground/fighting coverage -ate user easily beats your team after KOing Heatran. Even V-create does around 50% to Heatran if it's coming from Mega Ray. Additionally, I feel like having Wish on Mega Sableye isn't an optimal choice since it only has base 50 HP. Your Chansey also isn't the best improof option for your Mmy since Bolt Strike will always 2HKO after taking minimal chip damage (for instance if rocks are up and Chansey is at 88% before coming in, Bolt Strike is a guaranteed 2HKO). This is a problem especially since your Chansey is Imposter so it will almost never be at full HP. Even Heatran isn't really a good improof option for Kartana since TC boosted Jolly V-create does 64.5% minimum to Heatran, and Imposter will almost always click V-create against your Kartana anyway. While we are on the topic of Kartana, Jolly nature doesn't really help it much since it doesn't get to outspeed anything meaningful with it which means running an Adamant nature is going to be more efficient in most scenarios.

To fix these issues, I have some options listed below with some brief descriptions:

Option 1

brief description

So in this version I replaced Sableye with Giratina (I know this team is supposed to be a PH Mega Sab team but PH Giratina is just such a better fit for the team imo) and replaced Wish + Spiky Shield with Shore Up + Core Enforcer. This way, Giratina is now both a PH Regigigas check and an improof for your Kart. I changed Kart's nature to Adamant and replaced Mmy's Bolt Strike with Seed Flare so that Imposter Chansey can improof easier while still being able to do heavy damage to Pogre. I finally replaced Heatran with Registeel so your matchup vs. -ate becomes slightly better. Now in the worst case scenario you will be able to trade the Registeel with the problematic -ate mon with Dbond without losing a key improof member of the team.

Option 2

brief description

For this version of the team I tried to keep Mega Sab, so what I ended up doing was replace Wish + Defog with Shore Up + Core Enforcer on Sab so the PH Gigas matchup is manageable. You could keep Defog and replace Spiky Shield if you want, but for this team I think Spiky Shield is very valuable since most of your mons don't like getting Koff'd which means most of the time you want to lead Sab and safely activate the Toxic Orb with Spiky Shield. I still chose an Adamant nature on Kart, and kept Bolt Strike on Mmy. For this reason, I changed Chansey from Imposter to Fur Coat so mmy becomes easily improofed while also improving the -ate matchup significantly. Additionally, I have Topsy + Wish on Chansey which means Chansey also counters Normalize Gengar while providing Wish support for the team (trust me, Chansey's Wish is way better than Sab's). Since Sab no longer has Defog and Chansey checks Normgar, I replaced Rev Dance on Pogre with Core Enforcer and Sacred Fire with Rapid Spin. Thanks to Spectral Thief + Core Enforcer, Pogre can now spin pretty well against most teams. If you decide to keep Defog on Sab, you can keep Pogre's old moveset or just replace Rapid Spin with a better move. Finally, I replaced Heatran with Zygarde-C so that your Kart is improofed. I also replaced Dbond on Zyg with Poison Fang so that Zyg isn't a sitting duck vs Belly Drummers and Shell Smash users.

Hope this rate helps and GL on the ladder.

I really appreciate your patience and considerable comments that would improve the team. As mentioned, this is the first time I writing RMT, it is really my honour to see you guys' professional suggestions. Thank you!