It would not be the first time some berries are unobtainable through normal means.
They are likely to be added back via an event or something like that.
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Pokémon Appletun
- Thread starter MattL
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They are likely to be added back via an event or something like that.
PhysDef Thick Fat is a very good set on Appletun, and it's one of the few Pokemon in OU that can somewhat reliably switch into Dracovish's Fishious Rend thanks to a double resistance to Water, although Banded sets in Rain can still 3HKO it.
Any chance he OHKOs back if Fishisous Rend The Pokemon stays in? I can't check damage for a while
Draco Meteor in the 4th slot should do it, which I find to be better than Dragon Pulse, personally.
Plague von Karma
Banned deucer.
If Dracovish keeps staying as popular as he is (and I hope he does, he's hilarious), Appletun will definitely become a good Pokemon to keep around. Quad resist to water, and one of the most reliable we have. Dracovish requires a Choice Band to secure a 4HKO without rain which you can see here;
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (doubled) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 110-130 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
In Rain it's a guaranteed 3HKO, to clarify. We can still work with this, I'll explain in just a moment.
However, I'm not sure what Appletun could really do back offensively? It doesn't hit that hard, and Dracovish actually has pretty good SpD for some reason. We can PP Stall it with Recycle + Ripen + Sitrus Berry for sure though. I like that set a lot against Dracovish, as taking 2 hits puts us in Sitrus range consistently: 25.9% minumum just barely slaps us in there.
So I feel that Appletun has a stall niche in walling a choice-locked Dracovish. Try to get em in every time though as if he is choice locked otherwise you've...kinda lost your Pokemon. I think he's something to keep in mind since Dracovish is the biggest threat to stall at the moment, and you want Unaware Quagsire for Dynamax sweepers.
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (doubled) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 110-130 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
In Rain it's a guaranteed 3HKO, to clarify. We can still work with this, I'll explain in just a moment.
However, I'm not sure what Appletun could really do back offensively? It doesn't hit that hard, and Dracovish actually has pretty good SpD for some reason. We can PP Stall it with Recycle + Ripen + Sitrus Berry for sure though. I like that set a lot against Dracovish, as taking 2 hits puts us in Sitrus range consistently: 25.9% minumum just barely slaps us in there.
So I feel that Appletun has a stall niche in walling a choice-locked Dracovish. Try to get em in every time though as if he is choice locked otherwise you've...kinda lost your Pokemon. I think he's something to keep in mind since Dracovish is the biggest threat to stall at the moment, and you want Unaware Quagsire for Dynamax sweepers.
As I said above, Draco Meteor is a clean OHKO against Vish with no investment. Thick Fat is the more consistent ability in case of a random Ice Fang, although Outrage is still a clean OHKO.
0 SpA Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dracovish: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (100.00% after accuracy)
Plague von Karma
Banned deucer.
That's super good for us. Looks like Appletun's niche is completely solidified then.
Its just the message, research indicates that it dosent actually boost the amount healed.
Pretty sure it's confirmed still same as with other Pokemon. Though maybe they'll patch it to be buffed in the futue
I'm gonna link a post I made in the metagame discussion thread where I mention our beautiful apple boye a bit. Appletun is really good at stall. It competes with Ferrothorn as stall's cover girl grass type, but has some unique niches due to its rather large resume of quad resists, a few regular 50% resistances, and a quad weakness turned regular weakness to boot thanks to thick fat. They share roles as fat leech seeders with Appletun being more successful as an anti-water because of its quad resist which is relevant with Dracovish and Gyarados all over the place right now in addition to having more reliable recovery than Ferrothorn with Recover as well, but Ferrothorn has the benefit of role compression as a hazard setter. Appletun also has a lot better HP than Ferrothorn, but sacrifices the stellar defensive stats that Ferro has. (not that base 80 defenses flat is terrible)
You can read a bit more about Appletun in Stall here. I mention the niche provided by Apple Acid, but unfortunately I think my opinion has changed slightly with de-boosting being significantly weaker than boosting in the current metagame. The set-up Pokemon that are thriving right now are just too good at boosting multiple stats at once which makes Apple Acid an ineffective countermeasure. We would really appreciate the ability to trap since then Apple Acid can wear down fatter walls; but atm, it's pretty easy to just switch out and grass is already a type that does very not good offensively.
I was honestly really sold on this Pokemon when I saw it just because its so DAMN C U T E, but I was afraid its stats and lack of a movepool was going to make it suffer in the pits of NU; but, once Dynamax is dealt with and we're not stuck in the offense hell that plagues the ladder right now, I'm honestly convinced Appletun isn't the rotten apple that a lot of people say it is and that it has potential ripe for the picking.
You can read a bit more about Appletun in Stall here. I mention the niche provided by Apple Acid, but unfortunately I think my opinion has changed slightly with de-boosting being significantly weaker than boosting in the current metagame. The set-up Pokemon that are thriving right now are just too good at boosting multiple stats at once which makes Apple Acid an ineffective countermeasure. We would really appreciate the ability to trap since then Apple Acid can wear down fatter walls; but atm, it's pretty easy to just switch out and grass is already a type that does very not good offensively.
I was honestly really sold on this Pokemon when I saw it just because its so DAMN C U T E, but I was afraid its stats and lack of a movepool was going to make it suffer in the pits of NU; but, once Dynamax is dealt with and we're not stuck in the offense hell that plagues the ladder right now, I'm honestly convinced Appletun isn't the rotten apple that a lot of people say it is and that it has potential ripe for the picking.
Plague von Karma
Banned deucer.
I completely agree. Appletun has a very good niche right now that will only grow. While I have my own opinions on Dynamax, that's a thing for another thread.
The main reasons to use Appletun over Ferrothorn would be;
- Better for special attacks, more offensive presence, access to Apple Acid
- More well-rounded defenses in comparison to Ferrothorn's, although this makes it less bulky overall
- Far more recovery options overall, likely the most in the game actually
- Less predictable due to a variety of possible sets (Recycle+Ripen+Sitrus, SubSeed, Defensive Thick Fat etc)
I feel the next step is to see how Gen 8 OU grows and to tally up the threats Appletun deals with. I feel it'll be much more than we think, especially given the amount of resists. There is also a high amount of potential for Resist Cores to be made with it due to this, which could help it fit on more teams as well as stall.
Given Ferrothorn's main selling point over Appletun is hazards, when in the teambuilder we naturally would need to account for hazards. Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Corsola-Galar(!), Seismitoad, Duraludon(!!), Clefable and Bronzong all look like decent to good candidates to me. I especially like the idea of Duraludon for that amazing type it has. However, due to lacking recovery, on stall that would require Wish Support. In this regard, Corsola-Galar would be the better choice.
Sitrus is automatic, so you can use the turn to say, leech seed and opponent or use acid
I suppose but then you'd have to spend the next turn to recycle or switch out and find the opportunity to recycle later. Seems easier to just use Recover later w/o sacrificing Leftovers and Thick Fat.
Plague von Karma
Banned deucer.
Sitrus is, like Count Bleck said, automatic. Ripen makes it restore a large amount of HP, enabling you to sponge a hit and still get something off. While you gain a devastating Ice weakness, the rest of your team is there to handle that and you should have Ice resists anyway.
Recover takes a turn which Appletun can't always afford, and can give the opponent free switches and such, while Sitrus has comparable recovery and the ability to do something else. If your opponent has the right switch in this means you'll need to switch out, which could mean hazards or reads that can cost a lot. Sitrus+Ripen+Recycle means Appletun won't let opponents just come in for free when it needs to recover. This is one issue stall teams have had for a while. Of course there's a bit of ad hoccing but I think it's a good enough explanation.
Appletun isn’t that good (I’m writing the analysis). It has godawful coverage for offensive pressure and can’t realistically punish any bulky mon switching in on it. At least Ferrothorn has spikes/rocks to set on a predicted Clef/Corviknight switchin, Appletun just hits them for 0 damage and then gets forced out
You can run Body Press instead of Dragon STAB on Appletun as well, ensuring that it is not hardwalled by Steel types. A set like
Appletun @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Ability: Thick Fat
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Leech Seed
- Body Press
- Apple Acid
Honestly, hitting Steels to me is more valuable than the few targets Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse may hit.
Appletun @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Ability: Thick Fat
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Leech Seed
- Body Press
- Apple Acid
Honestly, hitting Steels to me is more valuable than the few targets Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse may hit.
Body Press barely 4HKOes (sometimes not even) Ferrothorn, it’s not great. At least Pulse/Meteor ensures that offensive dragons don’t come in for free
What's the benefit of using this instead of say defensive Seismitoad vs water/rain? Grass (powerwhip) resistance?
While I agree that Draco is probably better in most cases, I do think Body Press has its use. 4HKO on Ferro is actually pretty good considering Ferro literally can’t do anything against Appletun, gyro ball and power whip do hardly any damage and he can’t leech seed to get extra recovery plus Appletun has recover so he’s always going to win in a 1v1 situation. Plus it’s useful for hitting Excadrill, Tyranitar, and Bisharp (clean 2HKO or OHKO) so that they can’t just sit there and set up.
On the flip side you have to consider that Ferro can't touch Appletun. No leech seed, Gyro ball deals no damage, Power Whip is resisted. With Toxic currently being unavailable that's not an option. And if it's a hazard set that doesnt run thunder wave, all appletun has to do is lower it's spdef enough to where a special attacker can kill it off/ force a switch. As for body press, ferro can take a few hit's but will be crippled in the war. I'd say both are about even with one another and it comes down to moveset.
They seem to just copy/paste items from one generation to the next. IIRC Mega Stones, Z-Crystals, and even some key items from Gen 4 are present in Sw/Sh's codebase.
EDIT: Woops, old post, sorry.
Y’all saying Ferro doesn’t do anything back while he spikes in your face while taking negligible damage in return (especially protect variants). Not to mention you’re now a completely free switch for Dragapult, the most common mon in the tier. It’s cool and all that you can chip down Ferro and beat Bisharp, but that’s all Body Press does (TTar already fears Apple Acid and Leech Seed)
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