Almost Predictable = Unpredictable (peaked at no.2)

[george182]

The Teams Success:

This is my almost standard OU team. A team that looks perfectly standard, but a few odd move-set's making it unpredictable and aiding a lucario sweep. It peaked in 2nd place on Pokemon Online (PO) and before you inevitably slag down PO, I suggest you actually ladder on it, get yourself to a decent standard, then try to slag it down.

The team also enjoyed success on shoddy getting me just into the top 10 at 9th place. However shortly after I reached the top ten I switched to PO, because it is soo much better and therefore I didn't get my ranking any higher.

Thought Process:
The orriginal idea came from using Mix flygon to Lure in Lucario counters and take them out. So they were my starting block.

I saw another RMT ages ago, that used CB gyrados to take out lucario counter's like Rotom and after testing it turned out to be successful.

Next I wanted a Lead with good synergy with Gyrados and Flygon, so I could get them in early game and a lead that could beat anti lead machamp. I chose Lum berry metagross.

Now I wanted someone pursuit weak to help Lucario set up. I also wanted a back up to Lucario and Scizor and a trick user. I chose scarf rotom-H (who has his mouth open for some reason?)

To finish off the team, I had problems with countering Salamence, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Heatran etc. I ended up choosing that overate, but underused little duck aka porygon2.

Almost Predictable = Unpredictable​

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion

Metagross has remained one of the most solid leads in the game, he acts as both an anti lead and an SR user. Fairing pretty well against many common leads. I chose a lum berry over occu for 2 reason's:

1) I am using meteor mash, so i can't touch infernape and heatran anyway.
2) imo, all effective leads should now be able lead machamp, and a lum berry allows me to 2hko with mash. Or SR then explode. As lead machamp can cause problems if your unlucky with confusion hax.

The ev's are pretty much copied off smogon, Except I have no reason to out speed other metagross so I lowered them to just out speed scizor and put the spare ev's in attack. Overall a solid lead and is imo, one of the best. Metagross lures in Lucario counters right from the start and can Just explode straight onto them. He also has great synergy with Gyarados and flygon allowing them to easily switch in early game. His explosion is so powerful it has a high chance to OHKO hippowdon :O, doing 99.3% - 116.9% to the standard smogon set.


--------------------------------------------

Gyarados (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 62 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Choice band Gyarados, a very underrated set. At first you may think, why not use dragon dance and have the power of a choice band and the speed of a choice scarf:

1)Because dragon dance gyrados is one of the easiest pokemon in the entire game to counter and I don't know why people use it so much.

2)Because a choice band allows you to 2hko, or OHKO gyrados's common counters as the damage calculations bellow show.

The ev's are fairly simple, Enough speed to outspeed Rotom, Celebi and zapdos. Max attack for obvious reason's and the rest in HP. The immediate power output from this gyarados just destroys unexpected opponents and (with prediction) is capable of smashing through even stall teams, especially if they rely on rotom forms to counter gyrados. I like to bring gyarados in nice and early to catch teams by surprise before they start properly predicting. He also abuses the fact that everyone assumes he is going to dragon dance, so they think they will get a safe switch to a counter.



Damage calculations (standard smogon sets):

- Stone egde vs Defensive Bold Zapdos = 74.2% - 87.7% (after SR almost a guaranteed OHKO)
- Stone egde vs Bulky Intimidate Gyrados = 68.1% - 80.5% (38% chance Ko after stealth rocks)
- Waterfall vs Standard Bold Rotom = 50.7% - 60.2% (garunteed 2hko with stealth rocks)
- Payback vs Standard Bold Rotom = 84.9% - 100 % (83% chance to OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Payback vs Defensive Celebi = 63.9% - 75.2% (garunteed 2hko)


--------------------------------------------

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden power (fire)
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover

I often get called an OU whore becuase I only use OU pokemon. Normally because when I see a UU I just think of an OU that outclasses them e.g. altaria is outclassed by salamence. I was scepticle at first, but he filled the holes in my team and after testing I realised that not even an uber pokemon could do a better job than this NU. Porygon2 fits perfectly onto this team, covering the teams weakness and is almost like he was designed just for this team. He counters some top OU threats and spreads paralysis. He is the glue that holds this team together.

Trace is the beauty of this poke. It allows you to counter pokemon by using there abilities against them e.g. gyarados, salamence, Heatran, Jolteon, Vaporeon. As well as switching in to natural cure pokemon to heal yourself of status. Switching into early bird or insomnia to wake up. Switching into sand veil and stream to gain an immunity to them. Switch in to a flygon earthquake and levitate to avoid it. The opportunities are endless. It also helps in finding out a pokemon's set as it can be based on their ability, e.g. bronzong, togekiss, gliscor etc. It can also be used for trapping pokemon like magnezone and dugtrio. It is just has endless usage and makes this an amazing unique pokemon. It also scouts out the idiots with illuminate starmie, sturdy magnezone, sand veil dugtrio etc just for the lol's.

Hidden power fire is there because I find forretress was setting up all over my p2, and with the suprise of HP I OHKO the physical forretress (garunteed after rocks). If the sp.def one switches into rocks + a discharge, then the ko with HP is garunteed. Thanks to 'I abuse smeargle' for the suggestion.

--------------------------------------------

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Speed / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick

Another glue member. Firstly rotom filled in my weaknesses and resitances nicely. I chose to scarf Rotom so that I have a back up against pokemon like infernape, lucario, gengar etc.

Trick is there to help against stall teams and it helps Lucario set up. Trick is also useful as Porygon2 struggles to counter recovery stat uppers and trick can cripple them. Wil o wisp is mainly to for those scarf tyranitars that like to switch in early game, allowing me to take a pursuit. It also confuses people as they don't expect me to be scarfed and have wil o wisp, but it actually works quite well.

The speed ev's allow me to outspeed jolly gyarados after a dragon dance. Max special attack, and the rest in Hp to make use of Rotom's great typing.

--------------------------------------------

Flygon (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 Speed / 252 SAtk
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roost

This may look like the most useless Flygon set you have ever seen and on it's own it is outclassed by the standard choice scarf set. But he is capable 2hkoing every member of your standard stall team and when you think about the common lucario counter's being gliscor, hippowdon etc. and this flygon llures them in and can 2HKO or OHKO them with dracco meteor. Also remeber that he reisist stealth rock, is imuner to spikes, toxic spikes and is imune to thunderwave.

Originally I wanted choice specs, but I had too many choiced users already. Now I realise that this mixed roost set is the way to go, roost is there just for stall teams as Flygon is really useful in taking them down. The whole mixed roost set is just seems perfect, Dracco meteor and fire blast have great coverage, and also KO the common lucario counters. While earthquake, having the same power as a super effective brick break is great for taking out special walls, and is useful after I get a special attack drop.

This set is amazing for destroying lucario counter's as no one expects it, combined with a resistance to SR is why I'm using gimmick this flygon. What it lacks in power, it makes up for in surprise factor.

Damage calculations, using standard smogon sets:

- Dracco meteor vs Defensive Zapdos = 66.8% - 79.1% (garunteed 2hko, can OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Dracco meteor vs Gliscor = 84.2% - 99.4% (80% chance to OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Dracco meteor vs Bulky Gyrados = 63.5% - 74.9% (garunteed 2hko after stealth rocks)
- Fire blast vs Skarmory = 108.4% - 127.5% (garunteed OHKO)
- Fire blast vs Forretress = 230.5% - 271.2% (garunteed OHKO)
- Dracco meteor vs Bulky Rotom = 73% - 86.2% (garunteed 2hko)
- Dracco meteor vs Scarf Rotom = 92.1% - 108.7% (garunteed OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Dracco meteor vs Hippowdon = 65.7% - 77.4% (92% chance to 2hko, and most hippowdon don't use 88 sp.def anyway because boah with ice beam is rare these days)

--------------------------------------------

Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Bullet Punch

The best sweeper in the game, combined with a team that lures in and KO's his counter's. A recipe for success. As Celebi and Rotom are lured in and countered by Gyarados, I find that lucario no longer needs crunch. This means I can safely set up on scarf tyranitar, knowing that I am going to be able to ko it when it switches back in. It also helps against Gengar as well as others like aerodactyl, mismagius etc.

I have discovered that bullet punching can lead people to the assumption I don't have Extreme speed, and they sacrifice pokemon they were not intending to.

Damage calculations with one sword dance:
- Close combat vs Gyarados after intimidate = 68% - 80.1% (38% chance to OHKO after stealth rocks))
- Close combat vs Physical Skarmory = 88.9% - 105.1% (garunteed OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Close combat vs Defensive Suicune = 80.4% - 95% (51% chance to OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Close combat vs Physical Forretress = 85.9% - 101.1% (89% chance to OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Close combat vs Hippowdon = 80.7% - 95.2% (10% chance to OHKO the best physical wall in the game after stealth rocks)
- Extreme speed vs Starmie = 97.3% - 114.6% (garunteed OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Extreme speed vs Jolteon = 122.8% - 144.5% (garunteed OHKO)
- Extreme speed vs Flygon = 88.4% - 104.3% (flygon usualy switches into stealth rocks at least one time previously, making the Ko garunteed after he switches in a 2nd time)
- Bullet Punch vs Tyranitar = 89.5% - 105.3% (garunteed OHKO after stealth rocks)
- Bullet Punch vs Gengar = 95.4% - 112.6% (garunteed OHKO after stealth rocks)

As you can see, lucario is a beast. Thank you for reading and please rate :D

By request, a threats list:


Defensive Threats:

Blissey:
- Primary counter: Gyarados
- Secondary: Metagross, Flygon and Lucario

Bronzong:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Flygon, Rotom, porygon2

Celebi:
- Primary: Porygon2 to scout
- Secondary: Rotom, Flygon and metagross (Explosion)

Cresselia:
- Primary: Metagross, I like to explode and get it out of the way nice and early
- Secondary: Rotom, Gyarados, porygon2

Forretress:
- Primary: Gyarados, hopefully as he uses SR
- Secondary: Rotom and flygon

Gliscor:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Flygon, porygon2 and rotom

Gyarados:
- Primary: Porygon2
- Secondary: Rotom, Gyrados, flygon and Metagross (explosion)

Hippowdon:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Porygon2, flygon, Rotom and Metagross with explosion

Jirachi:
- Primary: Rotom
- Secondary: Flygon and Gyrados

Rotom:
- Primary: Porygon2
- Secondary: Flygon and Rotom

Skarmory:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Flygon, Rotom, Porygon2 and lucario

Snorlax:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Lucario, Metagross, and rotom with wil o wisp/trick

Suicune:
- Primary: Rotom
- Secondary: Porygon2 and metagross (explosion)

Swampert:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Porygon2 (recovery), Rotom (WoW), Flygon (if it's weakened), Metagross (explode if im getting annoyed with it roaring)

Tyranitar:[/COLOR]
- Primary: Metagross
- Secondary: Flygon, Lucario and Porygon2

Vaporeon
- Primary: Porygon2 (trace)
- Secondary: Rotom
- Set dependant: Gyarados, Metagross and Lucario

Zapdos:
- Primary: Rotom (wil o wisp)
- Secondary: Flygon and Porygon2
- Revenge: Gyarados


Offensive Threats:

Azelf:
- Primary: Metagross beats the common lead azelf
- Secondary: Rotom, Flygon, Gyarados, Porygon2 and lucario can extreme speed the weakened ones

Breloom:
- Primary: P2 takes the sleep, then gyrados waterfalls it to hell
- Secondary: Rotom, Flygon and metagross

Gengar:
- Primary: Stay in and prevent the sub, he has a hard time switching in anyway
- Secondary: Rotom, Flygon, Metagross
- Set dependant: Gyrados

Gyarados:
- Primary: Porygon2
- Secondary: Rotom

Heatran:
- Primary: Porygon2
- Secondary: Gyrados and Flygon
- Set dependant: Rotom and Lucario (for revenge)

Infernape:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Rotom and Flygon
- Revenge: Lucario

Jolteon:
- Primary: Porygon2 with trace
- Secondary: Flygon, Rotom
- Revenge: Lucario

Kingdra:
- Primary: gyrados
- Secondary: Porygon2, Rotom and Metagross
- Revenge: Lucario

Lucario:
- Primary: Gyrados
- Secondary: Rotom
- Revenge: Bullet punch + Extreme speed after a defence drop and life orb recoil

Machamp:
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Rotom and metagross
- Leads: Metagross
- Revenge: Lucario and flygon

Magnezone:
- Primary: Porygon2 to trap it
- Secondary: Rotom, Flygon and Lucario

Mamoswine (why is this OU, I hardly ever see it?):
- Primary: Gyarados
- Secondary: Rotom and porygon2
- Revenge: Metagross (bullet punch)

Metagross:
- Primary: Rotom
- Secondary: Gyrados/Flygon/porygon2
Despite looking dangerous it's never been much of a problem for some reason

Rotom:
- Primary: Porygon2
- Secondary: Flygon and Rotom

Salamence:
- Primary: Death fodder to scout the set, normally Metagross/Gyarados
- Secondary: Porygon2
- Revenge: Bullet punch + Extreme speed

Starmie:
- Primary: Rotom
- Secondary: Porygon2
Normally scared off by flygon (assuming its scarfed), and extreme speed when it's weak.

Tyranitar:
- Primary: Metagross
- Secondary: Flygon, Gyarados, porygon2 and Lucario
- Rotom can trick/wil o wisp depending on it's set

Zapdos:
- Primary: Porygon2 (T-wave + Ice beam)
- Secondary: Rotom and Flygon
- Revenge: Lucario with extreme speed, as life orb + SR will wear down the zapdos

 

[metamega]

first i would like to say, mew is an uber that does porygon2's job better, mainly due to an overall advantage in stats.

secondly, we will need a threat list to properly rate this team, it is a very good team on paper, also, i would suggest getting some damage calculations down, you are bordering very arrogant and it would be advisory that you put some calcs in there to back up what you are saying. a defensive swampert could resist all of your gyarados' attacks and fight back with a neutral ice beam/ ice punch, after 3 turns you will most likely die, how do oyu expect to fight a swampert, waterfall on porygon2 and rotom, earthquake on lucario and metagross, ice beam/ice punch on flygon, you are totally ruined, everyone forgets about swampert, he is very potent, and if he gets a couple of curses up then rests off the damage and has a lum berry (which is what i used on my curselax, it was very beastly and swept many teams!) then you will be screwed further!!!

im pretty sure you wont be needing will o wisp for tyranitar, if it comes in with a scarf, switch to flygon or something that resists its move, maybe even lucario with a bit of prediction and swords dance on the switch, then go for a sweep, the rest of your team can pick up where lucario left off, i would recommend swpping rotom formes to rotom-c for that much needed help against swampert.

 

[Curtains]

I like this team. I dont see any immediate weaknesses. Gengar may be a problem for this team lets say if gyarados uses earthquake on a pokemon he must kill atm and gengar steps in. i could see him dealing hefty damage to all of your pokes while under a sub. The problem is we cant change anything without creating more weaknesses. I Would also watchout for breloom as well because it can easily 1 to 2hko all your pokemon.Porygon 2 has its merits as a defensive pokemon but struggles to deal with stat uppers like suicune and snorlax.As long as hes not the last pokemon, this team does fairly well.

 

[greg3064]

Hm, not a bad team. Your Metagross lead confuses me a bit, though. I can see it beats anti-lead Machamp cold but wouldn't it be KOed by Fire Blast from Azelf/Heatran/Infernape? I suppose it's a bit of an anti-metagame lead since most Metagross leads carry Occa, but it'd have to fail sometimes.

Swampert doesn't look like a huge issue to me. I'd think that Pory could beat most of them one-on-one, besides maybe something with Curse and Rest w/ some SpDef investment (but that wouldn't have Ice Punch, so Flygon could hit it).

But yeah, pretty solid team due to its unpredictability. It would obviously require so some prediction, but any team that makes it to the top 10 would.

 

[Towelie]

first i would like to say, mew is an uber that does porygon2's job better, mainly due to an overall advantage in stats.

secondly, we will need a threat list to properly rate this team, it is a very good team on paper, also, i would suggest getting some damage calculations down, you are bordering very arrogant and it would be advisory that you put some calcs in there to back up what you are saying. a defensive swampert could resist all of your gyarados' attacks and fight back with a neutral ice beam/ ice punch, after 3 turns you will most likely die, how do oyu expect to fight a swampert, waterfall on porygon2 and rotom, earthquake on lucario and metagross, ice beam/ice punch on flygon, you are totally ruined, everyone forgets about swampert, he is very potent, and if he gets a couple of curses up then rests off the damage and has a lum berry (which is what i used on my curselax, it was very beastly and swept many teams!) then you will be screwed further!!!

im pretty sure you wont be needing will o wisp for tyranitar, if it comes in with a scarf, switch to flygon or something that resists its move, maybe even lucario with a bit of prediction and swords dance on the switch, then go for a sweep, the rest of your team can pick up where lucario left off, i would recommend swpping rotom formes to rotom-c for that much needed help against swampert.

Wtf? You don't need a threat list to rate a team first of all. Second of all, Gyarados straight up lol's at Swampert. Thirdly, how is he arrogant? I thought it was a damn good team. WoW is good because overheat blows (hi set up fodder) don't use rotom-c; rotom handles pert with shadow ball because ice beam does shit back. Mew is a baton passer... Porygon is a defensive pokemon lol. and mew doesn't have trace and can't counter dd mence worth a shit. Anyways, this is a place holder for your rate which I'll get to.

 

[Azure Demon]

I like this team especially flygon I ran a set similar to it before.
i am getting off topic this is a very solid team on pokemon I see that would give this team problems are
1. Elemental punching machamp (dynamicpunch, payback, t-punch,ice punch)
2. also mixed t-punch ape has a field day with this team
(t-punch, hp ice, Close Combat, fire blast)
3. I also see sub pain split gengar giving you hell but to be, fair any sub splitter is annoying
Now et me ask why t-bolt over discharge on P2 do you lose any notable Ohkos or 2hkos? I ask because I believe the 30% para hax is what this team needs to push itself over the top because looking at this team you do not have particularly speedy pokemon and I think some para support could open some big holes in your opponents defense or offense especially for gyarados and flygon to rip through

 

[Shizzle]

Question about Gyarados, are those Payback Calculations done with or without the opponent attacking you? I ask this because Celebi could use Thunder Wave, and start recovering off the damage and use Grass Knot too, and also the simple 88 Spe Rotom-H set outspeeds you and OHKOs with Thunderbolt, obviously.

Porygon2 is a great niche pokemon that I used before it became popular, and my god its amazing at countering ye old DDMence/DDdos, as well as several other potent sweepers. However it is completely walled by, well walls. Personally I feel that using double status on Porygon2 is amazing, so that you can cripple most walls, and also sweepers. The staple moves are of course Recover/Ice Beam, however you can mix up the last 2. Your combination of the last 2 moves can be any of these:
-Discharge / Toxic [My personal Favourite]
-Discharge / Hidden Power [Ground/Fire] - If Scizor/Heatran keep annoying Porygon2, this set works pretty well, although don't be surprised when you don't KO them, it also means you won't keep racking up damage from SR on Gyarados who would usually be your go to guy
-Thunderbolt / Toxic
-Thunderbolt / Thunderwave

Thats about really, looks like a really solid team.

 

[Doctor Who?]

Okay, let's make this a really good rate for a really good team, and kudos btw for reaching no.2.

The first problem I can see would have to be SD Scizor. After a Swords Dance it 2hkos Rotom, Lucario, P-2 and Gyarados as long as sr is on the field for Gyara. On top of this it easily kos Flygon too (112% - 131.9%). And that is only Bullet Punch so it absolutely smashes your team regardless of the other moves. To somewhat lessen the damage that Scizor can do to your team I recommend a change of your ev spread to 232HP 60DEF 216SPD. With this spread Bullet Punch will fail to 2hko most of the time with Stealth Rock up most of the time and it will never 2hko if sr isn't up.

I would highly recommend a Rapid Spinner somewhere on the team so that Gyarados can come in a lot easier. You seem to rely a lot on Gyarados/Rotom-H to check a lot of pokemon such as Scizor/Lucario/Metagross/Heatran so a lack of recovery on both of these pokemon sucks a lot. Just a random thought but have you considered CS Starmie >>> P-2 and then running a more defensive variant of Rotom-H. It seems that at first thought if you ran Rapid Spin somewhere on Starmie that it would have a lot more benefits for your team than P-2. Just wondering if you have tested it because that was a completely random thought.

This is a really solid team and great work on it. I hope what I just blurted out actually helps you.

 

[bluh]

George! Hey this is a very solid team but I would say somthing. I used this team on shoddy and i got much better results switching out crunch to lucario and putting in bullet punch. this gives you a sure fire way of killing gengars and tyranitar.

adamnt 252 atk lifeorb bulletPunch v 0hp/def tyranitar min is 114%
adamnt 252 atk lifeorb bulletPunch v 0hp/def gengar min is 84%

Both of them are factoring in stealth rock.
It also gives you a way or revenge killing a +2 Ttar (how did that happen)


Mehh... just think about them stuff.
Hope i helped. ^_-

 

[greg3064]

Status on Pory WILL help with walls, but bear in mind that it does need Thunderbolt/Discharge AND Ice Beam in order to counter Mence and Gyara. I'd definitely use Discharge if it gets the OHKO, which I'd assume it does. And based on his job I'd say it's worth using Recover in one slot... so I think the one you have now gets the job done, maybe with Toxic over Thunder Wave.

I don't think Bullet Punch is worth using over Crunch. Lucario is the team's sweeper, so hopefully you won't be facing a +1 Tyranitar, and hopefully you will have removed threats like Gengar already (SubGengar with Focus Blast seems to be getting very common though). If they can keep a Rotom-A around, it will wall you to hell without Crunch.

 

[august]

This team is really stall weak, just saying. The root of your stall weakness is inevitably Porygon2, literally the most stall weak pokemon ever. Not to mention P2 really isn't that good in the first place, speaking from experience. Forretress easily Spikes on P2 without much of a problem, which is really going to end up pissing off Luke late game, and it can easily spin once ScarfTar removes Rotom-h (which WILL happen, thats basically what Scarftar is for, removing Scarfed Trick spinblockers). After that, you literally have no chance of breaking a Swampert + Restalk Gyara + Blissey core (Flygon isn't going to cut it here). If you really want to have a chance against breaking stall against a good stall palyer, i suggest using Life Orb Heatran over Pory2. This would require much more careful playing against defensive threats, but it gives you another check against Swords Dance Scizor, while luring Restalk Gyarados and giving you something to switch into Scarved Fire attacks aimed at Luke.

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Explosion

It still gives you something that gives stall a run for its money, while sort of providing a defensive backbone with a respectable 91/106/106.

You can even use Tran to lure out Gyara, since if it switches into Fire Blast with Rocks down its most likely going to be 2HKO'd (and you can always Explode on it if you want).

Anyway, that should make stall a little easier. If that doesn't work, i'll gladly go back to the drawing board and try to think of something else sir!

 

[george182]

WOW loads of rates in 2 days, thanks ppl. Now onto the rates, it will be hard to do this without seeming arogant, so pls 4give me if i am. The order is just the order they were posted to me. Also thanks for the compliments they are appreciated :)

@ Metaman:
- I'm pretty sure mew can't beat jolteon, gyarados, salamence, heatran etc.
- Threat list as requested
- Well what team is not in trouble when gengar gets a sub lol, but I have gyarados, flygon, porygon2 and metagross who can all take a hit from sub gengar and break the sub. Then Rotom or one of them can revenge kill and I know not to e.g. lock myself into EQ if possible. But it's a problem and will normally take a pokemon down with him. I also have bullet punch on lucario now for him
- WoW has proved quite useful tbh, and overheat doesn't really gain much over it.
- I also saw your second coment lol I agree of course, but I'm guessing a mod deleted it, as apparently you can't compliment a team anymore.

@ Curtains, yep they are both a problem and sacrafice is my best way to beat them. As for bulky stat uppers, say hello to trick, explosion and choice band gyarados.

@ Greg, yea I agree swampert is easilly handled normally. Wow, porygon2, gyrados, and explosion if needs be. With metagross I wanted mash, and without EQ i dnt have much need for an occu berry, so lum seemed more useful. Also attack raise explosions are fun :D

@ Twolie, thanks I agree, I'm looking forward to your rate.

@ Crimson, yea machamp is normally a lead these days and metagross beats him nicely. But wearing him down and intimidate is my normal plan, also why wud any machamp have t-punch, cus dynamic punch does the same against water types, and stone edge hits gyrados and gives better coverage. Mixaped can be revenge by lucario and rotom if gyrados is down. As for discharge the power output disapointed me, and t-bolt also OHKO's any gyarados, while discharge only ko's the offesive one. I also have t-wave, so discharge wud be a bit redundant.

@ Shizzle I orrignally had the discharge toxic p2 off smogon. But I find discharge was lacking in power, and that the only pokemon useing toxic was p2, everyone else dones't really have much use for stalling. Flygon maybe with roost, but it didn't serve much purpose. Payback is for switching in, if you didn't know payback has double power if your slower, they don't need to hit you or use an attacking move, it is also double if they switch or if they use a non attacking move. It's not the same as the 60 base power moves like avalanche etc. which is probs why it has 50 base power, instead of 60.

@ Dr who, well rotom and gyrados counter it. Also gyardos' intimidate is useful to allow flygon, and rotom to live his attacks. Lucario can also close combat it after it uses BP, then finish it off with extreme. As for a rapid spinner, it would be really useful, but I don't see anyone changing. Perhaps lead forretress instead of metagross, but I'm really likeing metagross as a lead.

@ Kyyle, thanks for testing the team, great suggestion, this has been really useful, it means I can now set up on scarf tyranitar and ko him when he comes back in. I also don't have much need for crunch as Gyarados and flygon cover that with their surprise factor.

@ greg, hmm well toxic would help me out against stall, but again the rest of the team prefers thunderwave support, and with t-wave it makes discharge redundant. I'll test it and get back to you on this one, as people seem to think it would be a better idea.

@ August, well that heatran screw me over against offenisve teams as gyrados, salamence, jolteon and heatran can easilly beat it.

Against stall, I don't find it too problematic. Lets say they lead with hippowdon, I go to gyarados after setting up my rocks and waterfall to take out there rotom, which they probs have. I then use flygon's surprise factor to encourage skarmory and forretress to switch in and take the fire blast. I then am free to explode with metagross and take out a key player, probably hippowdon at this point. Rotom can use trick first turn and cripple their blissey. Lucario then set's up on the blissey later and it's GG.

That is pretty much what happened against the last stall team I faced. It requires prediction, but I have the surprise factor of banded gyrados and flygon, as well as trick and explosion which is devastating to stall teams.


Well there we go, in hindsight I was a bit arrogant, but I havn't outruled all of your suggestions and under testing are:

- Toxic discharge P2
- Bullet punch Lucario

Thanks for all the rates and do you agree with my comments or not?

 

[august]

just fyi, none of those pokemon except for scarftran can switch into fire blast (mence takes over 50%, gyara takes about 40%, jolt is OHKO'd), and you have switches into all of those anyway so i don't see the problem ?_?

cb gyara doesn't ohko rotom, and once they find out your banded they'll just play around with pert/hippo and gyara.

stall carries scarftar generally now, you arent going to cripple bliss. however, you will get your spinblocker pursuited if you try to trick.

you can argue all you want that you aren't stall weak, but if you play someone who is average or above average at stall, you're going to have a hard time.

(ps: mix flygon is handled just like mixmence, it isn't as hard for stall to handle as you seem to think)

 

[Kevin Garrett]

Yeah, I have to fully agree with august here. I was running stall last night on SU and I played a team that looked just like this. It very easy for stall to break. There are quite a few gaps in this team that stall can easily capitalize on. The biggest is Porygon2. It's so easy to set up Spikes and clear your Stealth Rock. The fact that Rotom-h is Scarfed doesn't help either because it takes way more than you want from Payback. CB Gyarados isn't an efficient attacker against stall because you are going up against a team that can resist each of its moves. Once you choose there is no changing and in the process you lose at least 25% from Stealth Rock. And finally, just because you have a MixMence, or in this case Mix Flygon, doesn't mean anything against stall. It is even easier to deal with than MixMence because it does less to Blissey.

 

[george182]

I would argue mix Fygon is harder for stall to handle because he can easily roost off damage, isn't stealth rock weak, imune to sandstorm and can still 2hko the key stall members, gyrados, hippowdon, tentacruel, skarmory, forretress, rotom, tyranitar etc.

I don't like the idea of heatran as it can't counter mence, gyrados, jolteon etc. Porygon2 i'll admit is overated, but he fit's very nicely on this team. Would toxic be useful, or would that just make it even easier for forretress to set up on me and I assume aromatheropy would just ruin that strategy anyway.

So more suggestions pls, I'm guessing toxic on p2 is not going to help much against stall, but testing will show.

 

[I Abuse Smeargles]

If you think Porygon 2 is such Forretress Bait, then why not run Hidden Power Fire on Porygon 2 to lure him out and take him down? That will certainly screw up any Stall Team immensely. This team is suppose to be unexpected, and that seems pretty un-expected to me!

Try it out? :)

 

[george182]

You know what is funny about that, discharge on the switch + Hp fire and stealth rocks is just a perfect KO on sp.def forretress lol. It was meant to be.

I've also find lucario and scizor like to set up on me, and paralysis hasn't been to useful. HP fire will surprise them. That is genius lol.

Testing could be a problem because they reset the ladder so I guess I'll be up against noobs. But at least fail tests won't be too problematic.

 

[august]

I would argue mix Fygon is harder for stall to handle because he can easily roost off damage, isn't stealth rock weak, imune to sandstorm and can still 2hko the key stall members, gyrados, hippowdon, tentacruel, skarmory, forretress, rotom, tyranitar etc.

I don't like the idea of heatran as it can't counter mence, gyrados, jolteon etc. Porygon2 i'll admit is overated, but he fit's very nicely on this team. Would toxic be useful, or would that just make it even easier for forretress to set up on me and I assume aromatheropy would just ruin that strategy anyway.

So more suggestions pls, I'm guessing toxic on p2 is not going to help much against stall, but testing will show.

he's also easily handled by gyarados + blissey and gets burned by rotom pretty easily.

you don't need to counter everything in pokemon. all you need to do is make sure nothing is going to set up and sweep you. i'd like to find something that sets up on a life orbed explosion from 90 base attack. porygon2 doesnt even counter mixmence, its 2hko'd no matter what when its switching into rocks (btw youre pretty mixmence weak i just noticed) and jolteon and gyara are easily handled by flygon and rotom respectively.

but whatever if you wanna lose to stall and have a sitting duck (literally) then don't take my suggestion, have fun.

 

[I Abuse Smeargles]

You know what is funny about that, discharge on the switch + Hp fire and stealth rocks is just a perfect KO on sp.def forretress lol. It was meant to be.

I've also find lucario and scizor like to set up on me, and paralysis hasn't been to useful. HP fire will surprise them. That is genius lol.

Testing could be a problem because they reset the ladder so I guess I'll be up against noobs. But at least fail tests won't be too problematic.

Well awesome then! :D I am happy that will work out for you! ^^

I tend to fix all my problems with HP Fire. I bet I am the only person who runs Hidden Power Fire on their Starmie due to SO many people thinking she is Pursuit bait. :P

 

[Towelie]

Seconding August and Kevin Garret's rate. You are EXTREMELY stall weak. The thing about Heatran is that nothing can really switch safely into it. Ya, Mence is faster, but between Fire Blast doing a fuckton to it, Stealth Rocks, and LO recoil, mence is a dead mence. So basically, I'm seconding the switch to LO Tran. How does LO Tran not beat stall? It outspeeds everything on a regular obi-stall team (blissey, forry, rotom, hippo, tentacruel, celebi, etc etc.) and 2hko or ohko all of them. How does that not help with stall? o.O
Anyways, I definitely think you should try it out. Also, I think Pory2 REALLY slows down the offensive pace of this team, and tbh, this team (bar gyarados) doesn't really abuse TWave abuse at all. To help with Specs Jolt (to an extent) you could try british gliscor over your current pory2. this obviously helps you with stall, gives you a pory switch in, a luke counter, etc etc. hope i helped and gl

 

[STEELDRAGON]

Hey, I got your PM, great team btw
The thing that stood out to me, was that Gyarados was choiced, and personally I don't like Stealth Rock weak choiced users, I would recommend Choice Band Swampert Instead. First, you won't lose that much power (Base 125 vs. Base 110), and it has a resistance to Stealth Rock, and is generally more reliable. It will also help you with Tyrannitar, Zapdos+Jolteon(without HP grass), and to an extent Gengar. You are quite weak to Suicune. If it switches in Gyarados, and and CMs, and you rotom is gone or tricked it scarf, it could sweep your team. I also see Gengar sweeping your weakened team. Scarftran and Specs Lucario could also be threats as well. I suggest you give Rotom Overheat so it can effectively kill Steel types like Lucario.

Ps- I think I just battled you

Good luck with the team!

 

[george182]

Bump.

- Stall is a problem
- Mence is uber
- Porygon2 is the weak link

I think p2 needs to leave the team and something that beats jolteon, backs up against gyarados and also can switch into heatran.

Heatran is nice, but a pursuit + gyarados combo will destroy me. Are there any other options availible?

 

[Delko]

Hello

Why don't you try Tyranitar instead of Porygon-Z?
Tyranitar defeats the pokemon you need it to (Jolteon, Heatran , ...) but it has other advantages. It lures out the same pokemon that counter Lucario (Gliscor, ...) so you can take them out before you start your Lucario sweep (Flygon doesn't have the same counters as Lucario has except for Bulky Waters). This allows you to Scarf Flygon to let is act as your revenge killer. 4/ 6th of your team isn't weak to Sandstorm either so the extra damage could help.

If Flygon doesn't work you can also use Stall breaking Gliscor instead, which works great with Tyranitar who activate the Sand Veil ability. Gliscor could help you against Stall.

I also suggest using a DD-Gyarados instead. Gyarados lures out pokemon as Rotom-a, ... who can be trapped and killed by Tyranitar opening a path for Gyarados to sweep (or weak the physical walls so Lucario can crush them completely).

 

[george182]

I hardly doubt you reached #2 with this sort of team. You will face stall on the high ladder almost everywhere you go.

How far did you REALLY go up to? 1400's CRE?

cre, lol, you have a ranking on PO, not a CRE. Before you acuse someone of lieing , you need to read all the facts. Which you clearly have not done. Then you acuse me of being a noob with a low CRE, which there is no need for.

This is for the people intending to rate my team:
I tbh still don't find stall a problem. I've been specifically challenging friends and people with stall teams and the team has faired just fine. For one flygon seems to be stalls worst nightmare, I can switch him in and out, roosting off life orb damage and there is not much they can do about. I only need one correct prediction to break through 1 of their members. While they need to get all of their predictions right, in order to prevent flygon killing one of them.

To add to that, not many stall member can touch flygon, and his immunity to spikes, resitance to stealth rock, imunity to sandstorm, as well as access to roost makes him very difficult to take down. He also has the great surprise factor, and after scouting there team, it easy to see who they would choose to take a scarfed U-turn, and I can fire off an attack accordingly.

I also find Metagross' explosion can take out at least 1 member of stall, and Gyarados can also take out 1 member through surprise. Once the stall team has been weakened it just requires a sword dance from lucario, or in my last battle I pulled off a choice band waterfall sweep as his gyarados counters were down.

Bassicaly, I'm still struggling to see the stall problem tbh, which is the main reason why I'm not all that keen on changing member to solve it.