Absol

[NatGeo]

also known as super luck LOL

To start off, this is probably one of the scariest Pokemon to face in NU, solely because of the power of both its priority Sucker Punch and the chance of a critical hit scoring on a key wall. Absol is just an absolute monster thanks to a pretty intimidating 130 Attack stat, and Dark is a neat STAB to have in NU thanks to its nice neutral coverage, and it hits some of the most important Pokemon in the meta for SE damage - think Misdreavus and Mesprit. It's also pretty fast in this tier, with 75 Speed to beat most of the Pokemon on stall. You have excellent coverage alone with just Sucker Punch / Superpower. Sucker Punch alone has the power to take out most of the tier (ANOTHER reason to run Quick Attack on swellow :D), making it a good impromptu check to Gorebyss.

That said, you have piss poor defenses which can take basically one weak neutral hit, though the optimal situation has you not getting hit at all before setup. I guess Sucker Punch helps here, but you also have to consider the possibility of getting status'd by something random, i.e. LOL LK jynx! That's really its only setback though, since your power level is insane and can be remedied with Sucker Punch / Super Luck.

good sets include:

name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Night Slash
item: Life Orb
ability: Super Luck
nature: Adamant
evs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe

Basically if you set up, something is going to die, no matter how many times you try to Trick it a Scarf with Rotom-S after it sets up. This set is basically self explanatory, with setup move + STAB + Superpower to hit Regirock and Probopass mostly. Besides, most Fighting-types besides Throh and Gurdurr (read: Sawk) are actually OHKOed by Sucker Punch after SR + 1 layer of Spikes, or SR + a wonderful crit to break sturdy. I've been running max / max Jolly most of the time now, just to get the jump on SD samurott that have been popping up here and there before they get the chance to Sub up or use SD. It also ties with other absol, allowing you to sucker punch them for the KO. The real problem with this set is that it has no longevity at all, so its basically set up and spam whatever attack you wish until you die from LO recoil. That said....

name: Substitute + Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Superpower
item: Leftovers
ability: Super Luck
nature: Adamant
evs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe

Not as good vs. full offense teams, at least IMO, but you can really beat stall with this set, bar Quagsire if the hax gods aren't in your favor today. Again, this should be obvious, but Substitute allows you to block status, like WoW from Missy or Sleep Powder from Eggy.

I don't have as much experience with the other two sets you can run on Absol, help me out here!

name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Night Slash
move 4: Sucker Punch / Psycho Cut
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Super Luck
nature: Jolly
evs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe

So apparently this is supposed to beats Offensive teams. Pursuit is excellent for trapping some of the frailer mons in the tier (you also outspeed Swellow, big points there), and most of the Psychic- and Ghost- types, such as Eggy locked onto Psychic. Night Slash is a great move to spam on offensive teams, since its still really strong without a boost, and if you can get Super Luck to kick in, even better! Sucker Punch is cool but it can be a real pain in the ass if you have to get yourself locked into it, while Psycho Cut lets you 2HKO Weezing on the switchin, as well as Sawk / Throh / Gurdurr for heavy damage, letting you cripple them for the rest of the match.

name: Choice Band
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Night Slash
item: Choice Band
ability: Super Luck
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Again, not a clue but 591 Attack straight up? Yes please! Night Slash has plenty of power, and definitely enough to 2HKO what it needs to, while Sucker Punch is a great killing move vs. a lot of setup mons. Pursuit is and always will be a great trapping move especially when you put STAB into it, and Superpower 2HKOes normal-types and rocks.

Yeah, that's it basically. Aside from this, I've been testing out Tanga Berry so you can set up on most SR Mesprit easier as they U-turn out. You take ~35% from U-turn now iirc, which can be a lifesaver. It's also really neat to beat BP Ninjask 1v1 by spamming Night Slash as you live the X-Scissor. So, discuss!

 

[Steamroll]

Read counters: BULK UP GURRDURP

Gurrdurr with eviolite just has insane physical bulk without any boosts. It can switch in without fear on absol at +2 and kindly set up in its face. Absol's Psycho Cut at +2 on durp switching in fails to do 50% more than three quarters of the time. So you can freely Drain Punch the next turn without fear. Beyond the minimal chance Absol is carrying Psycho Cut, Night Slash and Superpower fail to 3hko Gurrdurp. So if your opponent is keeping Absol in he's pretty much going to lose.

Beyond this flaw Absol really goes uncountered and very, very shakily checked. While each set Absol runs is totally different in terms of use and purpose (SD and SubSd being the closest in comparison) Gurrdurp, strong priority and high physical defense pokemon will fair the best in shutting down Absol. Swellow's guts boosted Quick Attack not only negates Absol's sucker punch, but also 2hko's Absol without a sub up. Tangela can safely wall Absol to an extent, failing to be 3hko'd by all of absol's attacks and can either sleep powder or toxic Absol. Sadly your opponent will catch on to this and just swords dance in your face if he gets a sub up (this is why I reccomended HP fighting tennisace!) and you already slept another mon before absol came in. Another way of answering to Absol is if you have a sub up already when it comes in. Mons who fear Sucker Punch like Mesprit can safely attack once without fear of Sucker Punch; your opponent HAS to break your sub or else you can get a free turn of set up and then KO back with Ice Beam (+1 Mesprit does 96.7% - 114% to Absol, so that's a clean KO with rocks damage).

 

[MegaKick]

I'v had some success running dread plate over CB - while the lack of power can be a bit disappointing, it can feel's awesome when you pursuit a fleeing pokemon and they go to their steel type believing you to be choice locked.

But yeah defensive fighting types really ruin his day even when he runs psycho cut (and he can't really afford to run psycho cut) so something that can lure out and weaken fighting types (offensive steels/other dark types) are greatly appreciated.

 

[Sabinfrost]

I've commonly been running a Scarf variant, the set I use is Night Slash/Psycho Cut/Stone Edge and Superpower for maximum coverage, all of those moves bar Superpower also have improved crit rating to go with super luck.

If you wanted Pursuit or even Perish Song to remove boosted threats in the last spot, I'd drop Psycho Cut, Night Slash is the obvious STAB for any choiced variant and Stone Edge/Superpower provides really good coverage with the well known fighting/rock combination.

I'm going to claim that Stone Edge is the most under-used moved at Absol's disposal.

I'd say it would be worth opening a discussion on the viability of Baton Pass Absol as well, as he is one of the few Pokemon that can pass Hone Claws or SD and has o.k utility in Taunt/Perish song which could potentially help him find opportunities to use it. Perhaps not his best set, but what do you guys think?

 

[tennisace]

I'm going to claim that Stone Edge is the most under-used moved at Absol's disposal.

I'd say it would be worth opening a discussion on the viability of Baton Pass Absol as well, as he is one of the few Pokemon that can pass Hone Claws or SD and has o.k utility in Taunt/Perish song which could potentially help him find opportunities to use it. Perhaps not his best set, but what do you guys think?

First: Stone Edge is horrible on Absol since you gain basically zero coverage and leave yourself open to not only Fighting-types but misses. At least when Sawk switches in on a Night Slash, it's taking a good chunk of damage. Stone Edge does not give you any significant additional coverage at all; I can't think of a single Pokemon you would hit with Stone Edge that you can't with a Dark move, Superpower, Psycho Cut, or even Megahorn. Everything that is weak to Rock is physically frail enough to take loads of damage from Absol's other moves.

Second: Why? You have base 130 attack. You have Priority. You have STAB Pursuit. Why would you use Baton Pass when you can basically 2hko most things in the tier just by grabbing an SD boost? Leave the SD passing to Ninjask or Leafeon or even Leavanny.

 

[Brammi]

Absol can run baton pass. It is the best Trap Passer in their tier ahead of Ariados and gimmick teams are hella fun.

 

[Sabinfrost]

First: Stone Edge is horrible on Absol since you gain basically zero coverage and leave yourself open to not only Fighting-types but misses. At least when Sawk switches in on a Night Slash, it's taking a good chunk of damage. Stone Edge does not give you any significant additional coverage at all; I can't think of a single Pokemon you would hit with Stone Edge that you can't with a Dark move, Superpower, Psycho Cut, or even Megahorn. Everything that is weak to Rock is physically frail enough to take loads of damage from Absol's other moves.

Second: Why? You have base 130 attack. You have Priority. You have STAB Pursuit. Why would you use Baton Pass when you can basically 2hko most things in the tier just by grabbing an SD boost? Leave the SD passing to Ninjask or Leafeon or even Leavanny.

Absol could run it in the fourth slot on an SD set in case something that shuts it down like Gurdurr comes in, it seems like it could be worth mentioning on a boosting set so the boosts don't get wasted.

I disagree on Stone Edge, Fighting/Rock is excellent coverage alongside STAB, there are a fair few rock weak Pokemon in the tier and we are talking Scarf, not a set up/priority set. Pinsir would be one example of a Rock weak Pokemon that isn't weak to the other moves and has reasonable enough physical bulk to take an unboosted Scarfed hit barring a crit and Torkoal would be another one. Having extensively run Torkoal I know just how bulky he is on the physical side and how annoying he can be with burns/yawn. I wouldn't discount Stone Edge straight off the bat, Fighting/Rock has been proven to be an excellent coverage combination. Stone Edge would also be ideal over Superpower in some circumstances as you don't get the attack drop and it hits considerably harder than Psycho Cut. Lower accuracy albeit without Sawk/Gurdurr coverage but fighting types are hit neutrally by fighting moves and you're unlikely to want to stay in on those as a scarfer. Superpower is also higher BP than Psycho Cut, I'd consider it adequate if not superior for the other benefits.

 

[Brammi]

Sabin, the problem with Stone Edge isn't that it doesn't hit stuff, it's that the stuff that it hits doesn't need to be hit. Pinsir is OHKO'd by +2 Sucker Punch, Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't stone edge also a 2hko on physically defensive torkoal.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Absol could run it in the fourth slot on an SD set in case something that shuts it down like Gurdurr comes in, it seems like it could be worth mentioning on a boosting set so the boosts don't get wasted.

I disagree on Stone Edge, Fighting/Rock is excellent coverage alongside STAB, there are a fair few rock weak Pokemon in the tier and we are talking Scarf, not a set up/priority set. Pinsir would be one example of a Rock weak Pokemon that isn't weak to the other moves and has reasonable enough physical bulk to take an unboosted Scarfed hit barring a crit and Torkoal would be another one. Having extensively run Torkoal I know just how bulky he is on the physical side and how annoying he can be with burns/yawn. I wouldn't discount Stone Edge straight off the bat, Fighting/Rock has been proven to be an excellent coverage combination. Stone Edge would also be ideal over Superpower in some circumstances as you don't get the attack drop and it hits considerably harder than Psycho Cut. Lower accuracy albeit without Sawk/Gurdurr coverage but fighting types are hit neutrally by fighting moves and you're unlikely to want to stay in on those as a scarfer. Superpower is also higher BP than Psycho Cut, I'd consider it adequate if not superior for the other benefits.

I somewhat agree on the first statement about Baton Passing; it really would be cool to bring something in that could make use of those extra boosts while still being able to effectively handle the 'mon that was supposed to take out Absol. Possible mixed attackers would be able to raise the power of their physical moves and get rid of things like Bulk Up Gurrdurp with their special attacking options. Then again, I think switching to Mesprit would screw Gurrdurp just as much as switching to a mixed-attacking counter would.

I'm iffy on the second statement, and I'm leaning more with tennisace on the value of Stone Edge. My primary complaint about the move is that it misses a hell of a lot more than it should; in general it sucks but on Absol it's even worse. Absol's only way to fix Stone Edge is to run Hone Claws, and nobody does that (and for good reason: it's terrible). Stick with her other coverage options; Psycho Cut, Superpower, and (to a lesser extent) Megahorn are all better moves than Stone Edge.

 

[Sabinfrost]

I somewhat agree on the first statement about Baton Passing; it really would be cool to bring something in that could make use of those extra boosts while still being able to effectively handle the 'mon that was supposed to take out Absol. Possible mixed attackers would be able to raise the power of their physical moves and get rid of things like Bulk Up Gurrdurp with their special attacking options. Then again, I think switching to Mesprit would screw Gurrdurp just as much as switching to a mixed-attacking counter would.

I'm iffy on the second statement, and I'm leaning more with tennisace on the value of Stone Edge. My primary complaint about the move is that it misses a hell of a lot more than it should; in general it sucks but on Absol it's even worse. Absol's only way to fix Stone Edge is to run Hone Claws, and nobody does that (and for good reason: it's terrible). Stick with her other coverage options; Psycho Cut, Superpower, and (to a lesser extent) Megahorn are all better moves than Stone Edge.

I was with you until you brought up Megahorn, it's only 5% higher accuracy than Stone Edge and you get psychic coverage from Dark anyway so you're only really using it for grass, which are hit neutral by your STAB. Dark are easily checked by Superpower which you're going to want for Steels. From experience Stone Edge isn't bad, it does miss, which is annoying, but being scarfed I've found if I've made a good prediction, they've switched in and I've missed, the second attack has taken care of them or they've been forced straight out not wanting to take a Stone Edge.

Not saying you should drop Superpower by any means, it's the best attack to have alongside Night Slash on a choiced set, Stone Edge just compliments it pretty well. Another common enough Pokemon that sprung to mind where Stone Edge was ideal is Armaldo, you won't 2hko the standard defensive sets with any of your other moves without Stone Edge.

Sabin, the problem with Stone Edge isn't that it doesn't hit stuff, it's that the stuff that it hits doesn't need to be hit. Pinsir is OHKO'd by +2 Sucker Punch, Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't stone edge also a 2hko on physically defensive torkoal.

Talking Scarfed man, not a set that boosts and if you want to revenge kill Pinsir if you fail to OHKO it you're dead from X-Scissor. I'd say Stone Edge would be a 2hko on Torkoal but that's better than a 3hko as you outspeed it and without the 2hko if it switches in it gets a turn where it can burn you or spin out your hazards

 

[shnen]

What i have found to br amazing is lum sd absol, as it allows him to set up on things like regirock, and take burns that will inevitably be flying at him. Also, fighting/dark provides perfect neutrl coverage aside from lolcroagunk so I really don't think any additionaly coverage moves are needed
Edit: oh yes natgeo, you are right to be afraid of the deadly jolly samurott :D

 

[Sabinfrost]

What i have found to br amazing is lum sd absol, as it allows him to set up on things like regirock, and take burns that will inevitably be flying at him. Also, fighting/dark provides perfect neutrl coverage aside from lolcroagunk so I really don't think any additionaly coverage moves are needed
Edit: oh yes natgeo, you are right to be afraid of the deadly jolly samurott :D

That's true Shnen but as I've illustrated, neutral sometimes isn't enough, especially with the attack drop from Superpower, point in case - Armaldo.

 

[destinyunknown]

Trap-Pass absol could be the only reasonable reason to run bp absol, but sadly, trap moves are not passed anymore in 5 gen.

 

[Sabinfrost]

Trap-Pass absol could be the only reasonable reason to run bp absol, but sadly, trap moves are not passed anymore in 5 gen.

I don't really buy that as the only reason to take it, if you're bringing in Absol to counter an enemy Poke in the early-mid game you'll often get forced out. Having BP wont severely hurt your coverage if you're running SD/Sucker Punch/Super Power and it would allow you to hand out the boost to something that can actually deal with whatever threatens you out. Absol is pretty fast for the tier as well.

 

[Smith]

I'll just go ahead and say that out of Absol's multifarious options, sd + baton pass is not the reason to use him. It could be a good surprise move but at the cost of something actually useful, like Superpower, I don't think it would be worth it. It's exactly the sort of thing I'd use in BOTW or some bullshit like that.

 

[Sabinfrost]

I'll just go ahead and say that out of Absol's multifarious options, sd + baton pass is not the reason to use him. It could be a good surprise move but at the cost of something actually useful, like Superpower, I don't think it would be worth it. It's exactly the sort of thing I'd use in BOTW or some bullshit like that.

I don't think there is a point in using Absol over another Pokemon for the sole purpose of passing boosts, but if you're running SD/Sucker Punch, you could have Superpower for neutral coverage around the board and take Baton Pass so you don't waste boosts if you are forced out. It could also surprise someone trying to predict around the Sucker Punch, the main reason Absol generally carries Night Slash as well as Sucker Punch.

 

[Axa]

I don't think there is a point in using Absol over another Pokemon for the sole purpose of passing boosts, but if you're running SD/Sucker Punch, you could have Superpower for neutral coverage around the board and take Baton Pass so you don't waste boosts if you are forced out. It could also surprise someone trying to predict around the Sucker Punch, the main reason Absol generally carries Night Slash as well as Sucker Punch.

The problem is that Sucker Punch has limited PP and is easy to get around. Also consider that Superpower's negative drops get passed on as well- nothing likes recieving -1 Defense drops.

And without a third attacking move, things like Weezing and Misdreavus now have a much easier time switching in.

 

[Sabinfrost]

The problem is that Sucker Punch has limited PP and is easy to get around. Also consider that Superpower's negative drops get passed on as well- nothing likes recieving -1 Defense drops.

And without a third attacking move, things like Weezing and Misdreavus now have a much easier time switching in.

You've made some solid points, perhaps an SD/Night Slash/Psycho Cut/Baton Pass set would be more viable as an other options type deal. It has massive coverage holes but Absol is fast for the tier (anything that outspeeds Mespirit is considered quick) and the tier has a decisive lack of Steels.

The option to pass out would allow another Pokemon that could use the boosts but has a hard time getting them come in and do some big damage like a Scarf Emboar or Tauros for instance.

Keep in mind, the idea of the set would still be for Absol to boost up and use his boosts, not become a dedicated dedicated baton passer.

 

[Smith]

Using Baton Pass, unfortunately, compromises your ability to sweep no matter what moves you forgo. Sucker Punch + Superpower renders you walled by Misdreavus, Jumpluff, and a myriad of other stuff once they figure out you don't have Night Slash. You'll find your best attacking moves simultaneously lowers the stats you're trying to boost and pass (not to mention the obvious issues with passing negative defense boosts). Sucker Punch + Night Slash has obvious issues, and Night Slash + Superpower is probably your best option, but also stopped by anything faster. I just think that Absol needs all his moves no matter what.

Keep in mind, the idea of the set would still be for Absol to boost up and use his boosts, not become a dedicated dedicated baton passer.

Even so, he can't use his boosts effectively with Baton pass inhibiting him so.

 

[marilli]

I guess by the time that the opponent figures out that you don't have Night Slash, you can hope that probably sacked a few mons / let something important take irreparable damage / think they're swept and just forfeit prematurely. Misdreavus isn't exactly your primary switch-in for Absol, you see. I mean, Night Slash isn't even used that often, so it's worth a try, I guess. But Night Slash is really useful vs. defensive teams, and Absol can break defensive teams so easily, you're making some concession there. In a case of a rematch against competent players, you'll get beat, so it's ultimately a gimmick -- but not a bad one for a gimmick.

 

[Smith]

In a case of a rematch against competent players, you'll get beat, so it's ultimately a gimmick -- but not a bad one for a gimmick.

yeah this is exactly what I meant by "the kind of shit I'd use in BOTW", I just think he has better options. I'd really hate to be set up on by Sub Jynx, or something like that. Really I'm just paranoid of not being able to break subs in NU.

 

[Sabinfrost]

yeah this is exactly what I meant by "the kind of shit I'd use in BOTW", I just think he has better options. I'd really hate to be set up on by Sub Jynx, or something like that. Really I'm just paranoid of not being able to break subs in NU.

Anything with Baton Pass isn't going to pull it's weight just thrown randomly onto a team, you really need to build a team that's not only going to benefit from it, and cover the flaws. In that particular case, I'd probably have a specially defensive Curse Quagsire on the team so that if a Jynx does come in an sub predicting the sucker punch I can pass an SD boost to it so it's doing good damage with Earthquake/Waterfall before Cursing. Now I think about it, it would probably pair very well with Mawile who also has access to SD and Baton Pass.

 

[Smith]

Anything with Baton Pass isn't going to pull it's weight just thrown randomly onto a team, you really need to build a team that's not only going to benefit from it, and cover the flaws.

I'd disagree with this. Leafeon can be pretty haphazardly added to a team and most members can take advantage of his boosts. Even if they don't, the dry pass is better than switching. If you're baton passing something as accessible as SD boosts, I don't see what the downside is. Granted, to REALLY abuse these boosts can be difficult, but BP is something that I will always regard with the attitude of "well why the fuck not?"

 

[canno]

BP Leafeon > BP Absol in every way. There is literally nothng BP Absol can't do that BP Leafeon does better, except for passing hilarious -1 Def when it wants to use it's coverage. Leafeon has arguably better defensive typing, a much larger Def stat that Absol, and doesn't need to ruin it's movepool in order to do it (Superpower's -1 Atk -1 Def is hilarious. Pure Dark gets walled by every Rock-type ever. Leafeon has nothing better to put there in terms of coverage (lol return))

 

[shnen]

Um, return+leaf blade actually has great coverage for starters, and rocks types don't resist dark? ?.?