A Peaceful Week for the Town of Salem - WON BY THE MAFIA AND THE WITCH

Status
Not open for further replies.
I said in discord but I will say it again I think you both played well for your first experience. Not getting scared of being proactive and managing the town claims I'd say its pretty solid, far better than my first time. You got unlucky with how the game ended up after n2 and things started going downhill after there but there is almost nothing you could do.

Also neon can do it if he tries. You need to play like this more frequently!
 

StupidFlandrs48

World’s sweatiest casual
is a Pre-Contributor
gg. Deferring postgame analysis to others as usual. I will admit that the win is less satisfying given scum’s massive luck factor and town’s stacked (in a bad way) composition, but that’s quite inherent to role madness setups with a lot of RNG. Looking forward to Ehmcee’s next crackhead project, this was still fun and I think he can refine it into something even better.
 
Good game all, I had a blast. Here's an account that I wrote of my thoughts and plays throughout the game, which I think would not be obvious to an outsider. I was a big contributer (intentionally) to town's messy and shitty play, which I would do again as it got me closer to acheiving my goals even though I got unlucky in the end.

So first things first, I was dealt wolf. Immediately I'm thinking about possible fakeclaims from there. Sheriff and Witch seem natural, since they are in the same bucket. I could use the Witch claim to rub shoulders with other evils in Day Off, I could use Sheriff to try and befriend town. One thing's for sure: Third party is my absolute favorite alignment to play, so I am going to be tryharding as much as I can.

I wake up after d1 and see that Mafia's existence is confirmed. Disaster. I really didn't want to have to go head to head with them. I think that Gun Game is very hard to win with Neutral Killing. I am going to have to take massive risks to succeed here. Even if I make it to final three it's really easy for me to get voted out from there since there's just one of me. I desperately need people to trust me, and to trust me a LOT.

I see that Jalmont claims a witch tried to control him and also claims that someone tried to kill him (from which he was saved). The second one is extremely suspicious. Unless a town killing role randed him night 1 (which is almost certainly a misplay) this is false. The only other way he can say it and be town is if he was Hypnotized. I don't think there's any reason for mafia to hypnotize someone night 1: it doesn't make any sense to me because if a lookout targetted that person they would know the hypnotist, and if that person just claimed like Jalmont did, town would know there WAS a hypnotist at the very least. So there is no upside to a hypnotist using their ability this recklessly, and Jalmont is almost certainly lying. I realize this might sound insane in retrospect. But I was completely sure that a competent mafia wouldn't use the hypnotist in this way. I assumed that at least one person on scum would veto this use of hypnotist. I didn't know why a scum Jalmont would claim what he did, but I suspected it was a dogwhistle to the witch or an attempt to set up some sort of long con where Jalmont was seen to have helped town. Maybe he did it to make it seem like a Hypnotist existed in a world where it didn't, in order to set up further lies down the line.

This fits in nicely with my Sheriff fakeclaim. If I successfully ID Jalmont as suspicious early on and in a documented way, it makes my Sheriff claim into a certainty and I'll possibly be able to skate through the entire game off of it, with no one suspecting I'm the wolf. I believe this type of play is necessary since the odds are stacked against me. If I was Sheriff and inspected Jalmont, I'd claim it as early as possible to a townfirm in order to make myself look as credible as possible. I do this first thing in the morning to Lechen who is almost certainly the retributionist.

The rest of the day, I just act kind of low key. Some people claim to me, such as DBD who claimed lookout, flanders who claimed escort, sunny who claimed transporter. I got these claims because Sunny transported myself and psypsy, while Flandrs escorted me and DBD looked out for me, which lead to them having a bit of a run-in in the thread. As the day goes on I become less and less sure Jalmont is scum. I have this impending sense of dread that I might get outed and it's too late now.

I start coming up with contingency plans for if I am wrong about Jalmont. I give Sunny my role as sheriff because that's what I would do if I actually was Sheriff, and I think he is almost certainly telling the truth about being transporter. I tell Sunny and Lechen that they both know my role and can talk about it with each other. The probability that I'm going to have to try to macgyver a kill on both of them rises every second.

This entire time, Psy has been bothering me about giving him info. I first tell him I was transported, and tell him to give me some info in return if he wants me to claim to him or whatever. He doesn't, he keeps asking for more information from me and then bitches about how uncooperative I'm being when I don't. The entire time he gives me NONE of his information, NOR does he give me any reason to trust him. I don't know the guy from Adam. But that's no problem because he also has no power over me.

Then comes the first big upset to my carefully laid plan. For some reason, Lechen thought that a HAMMER was needed to secure a lynch, instead of a simple majority. So he told Psy that I was the Sheriff and that I had found Jalmont guilty. This would have been a massive info leak and throw from Lechen, if I was in fact the Sheriff. I would be fucked if I were Sheriff and Psy was Mafia. I do not support or condone this play from Lechen, I think it was a big mistake.

HOWEVER, in this case it paid off for Lechen bigtime. I am no longer able to kill one of the two people I've claimed to and then he-said-she-said the other one. Because now there are three people who know my role. Disaster.

As I'm at the peak of my despair, I realize something. If mafia and I both kill town, then town won't be able to lynch me or even expose me without losing on the spot. I prepare the following to send to Lechen and Psy as soon as the day starts, hoping to preempt them outing me in the thread:

We are at 5 town, 4 mafia, one wolf, and one witch.

I am explicitly claiming werewolf. You cannot afford to lynch me today, because mafia checkmates town if you do this. You also cannot afford to make my status as a werewolf known to the mafia. The reason for this is that town has no numbers advantage so you need me to kill mafia members for town to have a chance to win. The witch will see how close mafia is to winning on numbers alone, and she will ally with them by claiming publicly if she thinks she can guarantee her win by doing so. The witch can control my night action indefinitely; I am her puppet. So we (meaning town and wolf) lose if the witch learns that I am the werewolf. By extension, we lose if the mafia learns that I am the werewolf. Therefore you should be very cautious with who you reveal my identity to. If you cast suspicion on me and I am lynched then town will lose. If you pass my identity to an untrusted party who turns out to be mafia or the witch then town will lose. If the mafia learns that I claimed to have inspected Jalmont, they'll deduce I'm the wolf and town will lose.

I am excited to explore the possibility of a fruitful and mutually beneficial cooperative relationship with you and your friends in the town. Let's work together to take down the mafia : )
I was also going to try to force Psy to claim Mafia publicly (lmao):

I was thinking it might make sense for you to publicly and loudly claim that you are mafia and that you know who the werewolf is, and solicit a claim from the witch because you have a way to checkmate town. This way we can trick the witch into claiming to you. After you do this, I will back you up and say that actually I know you aren't scum because I was the sheriff and checked you last night. We can get Lechen to back us up too if that makes you feel better.

Once we lynch the witch, you can make it public knowledge that I'm the werewolf because the mafia will no longer be able to checkmate us based on this information alone. Then I'll have no reason to kill you. What do you think of this plan?
Unfortunately for me, Psy correctly called that I was a killer and sent HH to protect Sunny. Unfortunately for town, he didn't account for the fact that if I was 3p and not mafia, then town loses the game on the spot if he does this. Sad!

I want to apologize to Jalmont. I am really sorry I instantly jumped on you like that. I just felt your d1 claim was so unlikely to have been hypnotized and I needed a scapegoat so I could have the most credible claim possible. Nothing personal and I stand by my strategy as proper for someone playing to win, but I realize it must've been confusing and annoying to see everyone go after you for seemingly no reason. That said, I should've remembered that Neon could be the hypnotist! I find it absolutely hilarious that his random targetting had the effect that it did, basically singlehandedly winning the game for his team, at least from my perspective. gg and well played to everyone : ) but especially him.
 
neon wasnt on at DL and i dont know where saber was or if he was just lurking
i was doing other stuff. sorry. also i never really got to use my roll. like both targets were uncontrollable. after n2 i was supprised no one had immedietly whispered to me. after a while mafia finally reached out to me so that was good. also i'm supprised i won, i played really badly. the vig death was amazing though and the double werewolf kill too. gg
 
A couple of final thoughts regarding setup:

I really enjoy the concept of 4 setups and a randomized selection, trying to figure out which one it was was a lot of fun. A really good mix of info+mystery. I think, however, in all of the setups (barring mafia day off) there could have been one less mafia and one more town. I think this both extends the game and gives town slightly more breathing room. I agree with that other guy (already forgot name RIP) in that a decent town had about a 20% chance of winning due to the relatively high evil count, and I think it gets closer to 50/50 with 1 extra RT and 1 less maf, even ignoring an early NK death.
 
why did we even play the last day lol town didn't have majority. mafia and witch didn't know each other?

look, the less said about this game the better. i tried to get my guy angypigeon to sub in and I'm sure he would've carried us to a victory. unfortunately the HOSTS stopped my master plan so we can blame this L on ehmcee. thank you next game please
 

genisu

I COULD BE BANNED!
why did we even play the last day lol town didn't have majority. mafia and witch didn't know each other?

look, the less said about this game the better. i tried to get my guy angypigeon to sub in and I'm sure he would've carried us to a victory. unfortunately the HOSTS stopped my master plan so we can blame this L on ehmcee. thank you next game please
im so sorry goatmont but i hope i made u proud in the end :((
 
why did we even play the last day lol town didn't have majority. mafia and witch didn't know each other?

look, the less said about this game the better. i tried to get my guy angypigeon to sub in and I'm sure he would've carried us to a victory. unfortunately the HOSTS stopped my master plan so we can blame this L on ehmcee. thank you next game please
i waited for like half the day cycle
 
Good game all, I had a blast. Here's an account that I wrote of my thoughts and plays throughout the game, which I think would not be obvious to an outsider. I was a big contributer (intentionally) to town's messy and shitty play, which I would do again as it got me closer to acheiving my goals even though I got unlucky in the end.

So first things first, I was dealt wolf. Immediately I'm thinking about possible fakeclaims from there. Sheriff and Witch seem natural, since they are in the same bucket. I could use the Witch claim to rub shoulders with other evils in Day Off, I could use Sheriff to try and befriend town. One thing's for sure: Third party is my absolute favorite alignment to play, so I am going to be tryharding as much as I can.

I wake up after d1 and see that Mafia's existence is confirmed. Disaster. I really didn't want to have to go head to head with them. I think that Gun Game is very hard to win with Neutral Killing. I am going to have to take massive risks to succeed here. Even if I make it to final three it's really easy for me to get voted out from there since there's just one of me. I desperately need people to trust me, and to trust me a LOT.

I see that Jalmont claims a witch tried to control him and also claims that someone tried to kill him (from which he was saved). The second one is extremely suspicious. Unless a town killing role randed him night 1 (which is almost certainly a misplay) this is false. The only other way he can say it and be town is if he was Hypnotized. I don't think there's any reason for mafia to hypnotize someone night 1: it doesn't make any sense to me because if a lookout targetted that person they would know the hypnotist, and if that person just claimed like Jalmont did, town would know there WAS a hypnotist at the very least. So there is no upside to a hypnotist using their ability this recklessly, and Jalmont is almost certainly lying. I realize this might sound insane in retrospect. But I was completely sure that a competent mafia wouldn't use the hypnotist in this way. I assumed that at least one person on scum would veto this use of hypnotist. I didn't know why a scum Jalmont would claim what he did, but I suspected it was a dogwhistle to the witch or an attempt to set up some sort of long con where Jalmont was seen to have helped town. Maybe he did it to make it seem like a Hypnotist existed in a world where it didn't, in order to set up further lies down the line.

This fits in nicely with my Sheriff fakeclaim. If I successfully ID Jalmont as suspicious early on and in a documented way, it makes my Sheriff claim into a certainty and I'll possibly be able to skate through the entire game off of it, with no one suspecting I'm the wolf. I believe this type of play is necessary since the odds are stacked against me. If I was Sheriff and inspected Jalmont, I'd claim it as early as possible to a townfirm in order to make myself look as credible as possible. I do this first thing in the morning to Lechen who is almost certainly the retributionist.

The rest of the day, I just act kind of low key. Some people claim to me, such as DBD who claimed lookout, flanders who claimed escort, sunny who claimed transporter. I got these claims because Sunny transported myself and psypsy, while Flandrs escorted me and DBD looked out for me, which lead to them having a bit of a run-in in the thread. As the day goes on I become less and less sure Jalmont is scum. I have this impending sense of dread that I might get outed and it's too late now.

I start coming up with contingency plans for if I am wrong about Jalmont. I give Sunny my role as sheriff because that's what I would do if I actually was Sheriff, and I think he is almost certainly telling the truth about being transporter. I tell Sunny and Lechen that they both know my role and can talk about it with each other. The probability that I'm going to have to try to macgyver a kill on both of them rises every second.

This entire time, Psy has been bothering me about giving him info. I first tell him I was transported, and tell him to give me some info in return if he wants me to claim to him or whatever. He doesn't, he keeps asking for more information from me and then bitches about how uncooperative I'm being when I don't. The entire time he gives me NONE of his information, NOR does he give me any reason to trust him. I don't know the guy from Adam. But that's no problem because he also has no power over me.

Then comes the first big upset to my carefully laid plan. For some reason, Lechen thought that a HAMMER was needed to secure a lynch, instead of a simple majority. So he told Psy that I was the Sheriff and that I had found Jalmont guilty. This would have been a massive info leak and throw from Lechen, if I was in fact the Sheriff. I would be fucked if I were Sheriff and Psy was Mafia. I do not support or condone this play from Lechen, I think it was a big mistake.

HOWEVER, in this case it paid off for Lechen bigtime. I am no longer able to kill one of the two people I've claimed to and then he-said-she-said the other one. Because now there are three people who know my role. Disaster.

As I'm at the peak of my despair, I realize something. If mafia and I both kill town, then town won't be able to lynch me or even expose me without losing on the spot. I prepare the following to send to Lechen and Psy as soon as the day starts, hoping to preempt them outing me in the thread:



I was also going to try to force Psy to claim Mafia publicly (lmao):



Unfortunately for me, Psy correctly called that I was a killer and sent HH to protect Sunny. Unfortunately for town, he didn't account for the fact that if I was 3p and not mafia, then town loses the game on the spot if he does this. Sad!

I want to apologize to Jalmont. I am really sorry I instantly jumped on you like that. I just felt your d1 claim was so unlikely to have been hypnotized and I needed a scapegoat so I could have the most credible claim possible. Nothing personal and I stand by my strategy as proper for someone playing to win, but I realize it must've been confusing and annoying to see everyone go after you for seemingly no reason. That said, I should've remembered that Neon could be the hypnotist! I find it absolutely hilarious that his random targetting had the effect that it did, basically singlehandedly winning the game for his team, at least from my perspective. gg and well played to everyone : ) but especially him.
it's okay that actually makes a lot of sense this whole time i thought you were trolling for no reason LOL so i was slightly ?_? but i get it now

you guys still trolled the fuck out of the day 1 vote. why the fuck would I lie about getting controlled? if I was mafia...i would keep that shit to myself???? hello???? am i missing something here??

whatever, this game was basically impossible anyways. nice try team. well done to the winners. gg all
 

Dead by Daylight

infinity repeating
is a Contributor to Smogon
it's okay that actually makes a lot of sense this whole time i thought you were trolling for no reason LOL so i was slightly ?_? but i get it now

you guys still trolled the fuck out of the day 1 vote. why the fuck would I lie about getting controlled? if I was mafia...i would keep that shit to myself???? hello???? am i missing something here??

whatever, this game was basically impossible anyways. nice try team. well done to the winners. gg all
at least on my end it was a combination of the wagon + saber's lack of defense + my complete inexperience. sorry goatmont.
 
really good idea for a game. wouldve been a little more fun if setup had randed differently + town that was left didnt have an extremely embarrassing showing that wound up making the game extremely annoying. this playerbase doesnt really understand how tos works and because of that town couldnt work together at all to get the information we needed to win. unfortunate but ty for hosting. sorry to jalmont. when i made that whisper with you i was about to tell you that you got redchecked but i backed out cause i thought it would be too messy. my mistake on that
 
okay i was probably a little harsh earlier. i think it's more frustrating the game ended early because i don't think we actually played that bad, we just basically didn't really get to play LOL. very bad luck on the nightkills removing all kill power and our opportunities to stay in the game i mean we literally had one vote with majority xd. i get why TOS is played live where you can play a bunch of games in a short period of time so the variance doesn't get to you.

i still think we were maybe a little naive to just believe redless but honestly i do understand what everyone was trying to do with that so you know, no hard feelings there.

neon and saber did a good job. oj did too i wish he would play more he's very funny! this would've shaped up to be a very interesting NOC game without the third parties. i blew off the PM system i suppose there's a big advantage in utilizing that system so oops.

gg. who is the next game btw
 

Duskfall98

Votecount Specialist
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Gg everyone, I did basically nothing and I think ehmcee did a great job running the game. It was interesting to see tos brought to forum mafia.

I agree with jalmont re: the variance stuff, I think there’s obviously a lot of luck in tos based on rand, but I do think it’s winnable from both sides the key thing is just it’s so snowbally.

Town have to vote mafia asap because of numbers, if they do then the mechanics overpowering probably happens and mafia find it very difficult to fake claim their way out in a longer game. It seems to be like the setup just completely relies on early game, and there’s very little chance to catch up either from town or mafia perspective if you don’t get the vote correct early. This isn’t impossible, especially when there like 40 percent chance to hit anti town first vote, just randomising, but it does require town to form up, find at least one mafia who’s just off and play completely on the reads. This setup, while role heavy, left no time for you to push off mechanical problems early since if you wait and vote town early, it’s probably too late to do anything because the anti town roles are now too stacked.
 
Good game everyone!

I felt like we, the mafia team, got away with a lot of things that shouldn't have happened. We were a bit chaotic with our N1 and when I tried to plan how the night actions goes we couldn't set up a plan together. Pulsar was the mvp of night actions because she decided to kill celever and implant the memory on jalmont. She killed a vig, set up the veteran mislynch and ended up outing the werewolf with that. The mislynch ended up happening and even though we couldn't kill anyone on N2 we found out the witch. Werewolf killed 2 towns and himself for us so we got half the votes already on D3. After that I decided to conveniently claim archer to lechen to steal info from town and well... 3 lookouts can't do much in the endgame can they? Since transporter couldn't be used I guess as long as the witch controls the bouncer the game is won for us.

Pulsar, flandrs and neon: A pleasure to team up with you guys, I had fun. Looking forward to see you in the next games. There was not much to do on d3 for most of you but I hope you had fun at least. Neon you were more involved, I knew you can do it! Isn't it funnier to play this way?

Saber: You were on the spotlight since D2 but managed to survive. Pretty good performance by you and you definitely improved since your first game that you were 3p. As I said, we got your back buddy :sphearical:

Lechen and dbd: Both of you were impressive for your first time playing as I said in a post earlier. I hope to see you guys around again. I might try diplo but I've never played it so I'd be the inexperienced one this time.

Psy: You were scary with your hyper agressive approach so I had to try to hide info from you using my position of archer. You played well but odds were stacked against you.

Genisu: You had great reads as usual. I feel like your issue is that you have a hard time making people trust you. You can definitely present your opinion in a better way and have more success.

Jalmont: D1 must have been extremely frustrating for you, I'm sorry about that. Thats the way this game works I guess? Last game it was my turn, looks like this one was yours. Since you asked, next game is a big mf by laurel and internet.

I didn't really interact much with the other players but I hope you guys enjoyed the game it was short but action packed.

On a personal note I feel like my performance if you ignore me trolling both deadlines with 2 mistimings was fine but things were going excellent for us so it was hard to look bad. Also I completely missed that retributionist can't pick up transporter, there were a lot of questions I asked to ehmcee but that wasn't one of them.

Ehmcee: Thank you for hosting the game, you did a great job and the game idea was fun and unique. I can't wait to see your next game!
Duskfall: Did you like evil Alice?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top