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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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It. Has. 44. Base. Speed.
It gets recover, so you can't just poke it. And it has high defense, mitigating its weaknesses. There are plenty of physically bulky pokemon with terrible special defense in OU(or are used in OU). It gets what it needs to succeed in what it needs to do, in my opinion. I'm not calling OU, but it can certainly survive in the environment.
It's not very good, in my opinion. I'd rather use Togekiss when it goes on Showdown.
Oh, that brings me to my next point. Yes, it's powerful, but it can't switch in against ANYTHING physical, and it can't start attacking against much. Latios is nice because it spams Draco Meteor, but YOU CANNOT DO THAT. BOTH of its STAB options have a type immune to them, and Klefki is immune to both. You say you use Focus Blast? You REALLY want to be stuck in forced to use Focus Blast? That's a terrible idea, because so many pokemon can switch in and take severe advantage of Fail Blast.
Oh, and if you kill my wall with Draco Meteor, you have now given me a free turn to set up anything reasonably powerful. So thanks, I guess.
That's such a tenous remark. How many Pokemon are there that are faster and can heal up instantly and can actually take a single Draco Meteor in the UU tier? There's Cresselia, Mew aaand that's about it. The latter isn't even sure to live a Meteor, especially if you have more than SR up. I'll grant you there may be some new additions to UU that join that club, but whatever way you look at it it's a pretty short list.
252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 83-99 (24.92 - 29.72%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 67-80 (20.12 - 24.02%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 32-38 (9.6 - 11.41%) -- 9HKO at best
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 33-40 (9.9 - 12.01%) -- 9HKO at best
252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 78-94 (23.42 - 28.22%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-H Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 84-99 (25.22 - 29.72%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock
"can't start attacking against much". There's 6 very easy examples. There are many, many more Pokemon that can't hit you for 50% - those are also pretty viable candidates since you're going to be OHKOing in return... if my opponent wants to leave Heracross in so he can hit me for 40% while I OHKO it in return that's cool with me.
And Latios does not suffer from this problem because..?
Oh, and you should have said reasonably powerful and pretty bulky, because unless you want to lose most of your sweeper's health before you can get an attack in you better be at LEAST Virizion durable... even then 20HP Virizion is taking 65% minimum from Draco Meteor... I would exactly call that a free setup - god forbid you have a Life Orb. On top of that, if you are running the type of team that really can't afford to give the opponent a single turn of setup you are also running the type of team that really ought to be carrying the priority to dispose of a badly weakened setup sweeper.
Is that a -2 (or a -4) Draco Meteor? Because that's what I was referring too.
Latios DOES suffer from that problem. Except that only Steel types resisted Draco Meteor last gen.
And the thing about priority: IT DOESN'T ALWAYS KILL. You're now using a weakened Draco Meteor on me, which I may resist or be immune to. I will set up and take piddly damage, and you may not get me into range for your priority revenge killer. And if you're only running one? GG no re.
Came to this thread because it is quite interesting in fact.
Well, has anyone mentioned Hawlucha? It is at LEAST RU. With stats somewhat similar to Weavile.....
Weavile
Hp:344
Atk: 372
Def: 251
SpAtk: 207
SpDef: 295
Spd: 383
Hawlucha
Hp:360
Atk:311
Def:273
SpAtk:271
SpDef: 247
Spd: 368
(Keep in mind that these are the maximum stats possible, EV training and Assisting Nature, and that you can only max EV Train 2 Stats.)
Also, with Rock, Bug, and Poison type moves, It can counter its weaknesses. It's only problem is its harshly low SpDef stat. Just give it Flying Press, Poison Jab, X-Scissor, and Rock Slide and train it in Atk and Spd and a little SpAtk, and you've got a perfect glass cannon.
I would also like to mention that Dragon Types are becoming usless thanks to Fairy, Ice, and Dragon weaknesses, and the only one who can stand up against that is possibly Dragalge. The use of Dragon types may decrease due to the over usage of Fairy types. Steel and Poison will most definitely increase, because there are barely any non-Fairy Types that can learn moves like Dazzling Gleam.
Well, has anyone mentioned Hawlucha? It is at LEAST RU. With stats somewhat similar to Weavile.....
Weavile
Hp:344
Atk: 372
Def: 251
SpAtk: 207
SpDef: 295
Spd: 383
Hawlucha
Hp:360
Atk:311
Def:273
SpAtk:271
SpDef: 247
Spd: 368
(Keep in mind that these are the maximum stats possible, EV training and Assisting Nature, and that you can only max EV Train 2 Stats.)
Also, with Rock, Bug, and Poison type moves, It can counter its weaknesses. It's only problem is its harshly low SpDef stat. Just give it Flying Press, Poison Jab, X-Scissor, and Rock Slide and train it in Atk and Spd and a little SpAtk, and you've got a perfect glass cannon.
I would also like to mention that Dragon Types are becoming usless thanks to Fairy, Ice, and Dragon weaknesses, and the only one who can stand up against that is possibly Dragalge. The use of Dragon types may decrease due to the over usage of Fairy types. Steel and Poison will most definitely increase, because there are barely any non-Fairy Types that can learn moves like Dazzling Gleam.
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That's a -2 Draco Meteor. Pretty much anything with less special bulk than defensive Roserade is taking at least 50% from Draco Meteor. Really the only thing you'd have to worry about are Empoleon, since with the resist you only do like 30-35% to it with -2 Draco Meteor, and something like CM Virizion/Mew that can boost SDef before you can get a hit in on it. Those are things you would definitely want to have a solid answer to. Anything else, though, is probably taking a whole ton of damage.
I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers. Its ability, Unburden, could potentially make it one of the deadliest sweepers in the lower tiers. With passable Attack, Swords Dance, blazing Speed, and an incredible Fighting/Flying STAB combination, Hawlucha can take great advantage of all these traits to run a nasty Flying Gem set. I know it's been posted around this before, but it seems to be ignored over something like Talonflame, which gives Hawlucha a lot of competition.
Hawlucha @ Flying Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Hi Jump Kick
- Encore / Substitute
This set is any sweeper's dream. All Hawlucha has to do is get up a free SD, fire off an incredibly powerful Acrobatics, and it outspeeds everything in the game. The moveset is very self explanatory aside from the last slot, which is very expendable. Thankfully, GameFreak was kind to Hawlucha and gave it the best physical Fighting-type moves in the game, Hi Jump Kick, which packs incredible power after an SD boost. Because of Hawlucha's limited options, the last moveslot is completely up to you. Encore allows Hawlucha to use opposing setup sweepers as setup fodder and give it a free turn to setup a Swords Dance. Substitute on the other hand is a decent option for extra protection against Ice Shard or revenge killers that still threaten Hawlucha before it activates Unburden. Overall, I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers, and it could potentially be a top tier sweeper in a tier as high as UU. It's a very straightforward Pokemon, but it gets the job done.
Very well thought! I applaud you, sir! I would not have seen it using Substitute, however..... Encore seems very useful in certain times! It could also easily 2HKO with an Acrobatics, Trust me! I have used Hawlucha online (It wasnt even fully EV trained!) and I swept a Vaporeon, Meowstic, and Simisear before being lowered to 3HP. Also, I would like to mention it works very well in a Double Battle with Sky Drop, Encore, and Fly. (Not a good moveset at all tho)I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers. Its ability, Unburden, could potentially make it one of the deadliest sweepers in the lower tiers. With passable Attack, Swords Dance, blazing Speed, and an incredible Fighting/Flying STAB combination, Hawlucha can take great advantage of all these traits to run a nasty Flying Gem set. I know it's been posted around this before, but it seems to be ignored over something like Talonflame, which gives Hawlucha a lot of competition.
Hawlucha @ Flying Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Hi Jump Kick
- Encore / Substitute
This set is any sweeper's dream. All Hawlucha has to do is get up a free SD, fire off an incredibly powerful Acrobatics, and it outspeeds everything in the game. The moveset is very self explanatory aside from the last slot, which is very expendable. Thankfully, GameFreak was kind to Hawlucha and gave it the best physical Fighting-type moves in the game, Hi Jump Kick, which packs incredible power after an SD boost. Because of Hawlucha's limited options, the last moveslot is completely up to you. Encore allows Hawlucha to use opposing setup sweepers as setup fodder and give it a free turn to setup a Swords Dance. Substitute on the other hand is a decent option for extra protection against Ice Shard or revenge killers that still threaten Hawlucha before it activates Unburden. Overall, I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers, and it could potentially be a top tier sweeper in a tier as high as UU. It's a very straightforward Pokemon, but it gets the job done.
I'd be really, really surprised if Hawlucha ended up any lower than UU. To be blunt, my experiences with it lead me to think it'll likely be OU. To my mind, its real strength lies in its ability to function both as a passer and a late game sweeper with equal efficacy. Those Pokemon that wall its STAB combo can't do jack to stop its pass; those pokemon that could stop its pass can't withstand its STAB combo. The most threatening priority users need to rely on revenge killing, since they can't safely switch due to the threat posed by HJK and Acrobatics.I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers. Its ability, Unburden, could potentially make it one of the deadliest sweepers in the lower tiers. With passable Attack, Swords Dance, blazing Speed, and an incredible Fighting/Flying STAB combination, Hawlucha can take great advantage of all these traits to run a nasty Flying Gem set. I know it's been posted around this before, but it seems to be ignored over something like Talonflame, which gives Hawlucha a lot of competition.
Hawlucha @ Flying Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Hi Jump Kick
- Encore / Substitute
This set is any sweeper's dream. All Hawlucha has to do is get up a free SD, fire off an incredibly powerful Acrobatics, and it outspeeds everything in the game. The moveset is very self explanatory aside from the last slot, which is very expendable. Thankfully, GameFreak was kind to Hawlucha and gave it the best physical Fighting-type moves in the game, Hi Jump Kick, which packs incredible power after an SD boost. Because of Hawlucha's limited options, the last moveslot is completely up to you. Encore allows Hawlucha to use opposing setup sweepers as setup fodder and give it a free turn to setup a Swords Dance. Substitute on the other hand is a decent option for extra protection against Ice Shard or revenge killers that still threaten Hawlucha before it activates Unburden. Overall, I think Hawlucha has a lot of potential in the lower tiers, and it could potentially be a top tier sweeper in a tier as high as UU. It's a very straightforward Pokemon, but it gets the job done.
It's typing can be a bit of a bother at times, like when facing Ice and Flying types. I don't under stand if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me on that bold part. Isn't that a good thing? XD
Meh, I can see UU possibly, but no higher. It's abnormally low SpDef and Weakness to Ice and Psychic types puts it at a real disadvantage sometimes. As I said, it is a glass cannon, meaning it can dish out the damage, but can't take it. When facing a 'mon with high Def, it really loses its usefulness unless it can manage to put in an Encore.
Draglage is way too susceptible to pivots to even be considered marginally useful. Your opponent sends out Draglage. Switch to your Fairy-type, Draco Meteor doesn't hit. Now switch to your Steel-type. Either Draglage has switched or you just dodged his Sludge Wave. If Draglage is still up, hit him with any physical move and he will die. Done.
I very much agree with you, In cases of facing Klefki (LOL) or Mega Mawile. Other than that, I don't see anyone putting a Steel type and a Fairy-type in the same team.
Speaking of Klefki, It's not half bad when you look at it! It wouldn't manage to reach UU, however. I mean, It's stats are pretty good (well, okay) and It has a weakness to, what, Fire and Ground? Not many use fire types IMO.
Maybe Mawile would be more suitable...
I disagree. Sylveon/Florges/Togekiss are all very decent special walls, with Togekiss even able to blast stuff with its high Sp. Atk and speed, and every OU team already has a Steel type on it.
Pretty much every dragon uses Fire-Type moves for coverage if they get them and have useable stats to back it up.
You have heard of MixMence, right?
Fairy+Steel is actually a great combination for cores. Azumarill+Ferrothorn and Togekiss+Heatran are a few examples that come to mind.
The Latis might not so much nowadays, ever since the Hidden Power nerf. M-Mawile is actually an excellent Lati check if they don't carry HP Fire.
Oh. Im an idiot. Thanks for that. :D But then again, what if your playing a Single Battle?
Yes, but The use of Fairy types will increase due to it only being weak to Steel and Poison, and having advantage against Fighting, Dragon, etc., plus I believe that Fairy types are faster.
Actually on average they're slower and bulkier.
...we're talking sbout Single Battles right now. You switch out to cover weaknesses.
Yes, but I only see this if your playing Double Battle.
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