3vs3 Sweepers Discussion: Sash or Life Orb?

[gabriel]

Yes, I could post this on Simples Questions/Answers Thread, however, I'd like people to post multiple opinions and experiences, so I decided to post it as a thread. May an admin think it was an uncorrect idea, feel free to close it.

You play 3vs3 mostly on PBR's Wi-Fi. When using powerful but frail sweepers like Persian, Cacturne, Honchkrow, Floatzel, which item do you prefer to use? Unusual stuff usually needs some setup in order to work, like a BP Agility, a scout, Paralysis support, nevertheless, do you rely on Life Orb with Scizor and Lucario around to Bullet Punch or ExtremeSpeed you? SR ain't commom in such metagame, doesn't Focus Sash seems more appeling? What about Sucker Punch?

Share thoughts and facts.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

I prefer Focus Sash to Life Orb in 3 vs 3. Both Battle Tower and PBR randoms.

 

[Zog]

Every offensive team needs a sash in 3v3/4v4, less so a life orb. The recoil can often be gamebreaking.

 

[darkseeker4]

Every offensive team needs a sash in 3v3/4v4, less so a life orb. The recoil can often be gamebreaking.

So can the 10% kick needed for the KO.

 

[gamer22]

i would rather use a sash

 

[Jumpman16]

sash is a lot better, especially when you realize that opposing 3v3 pokes are likely to have sash too

 

[gabriel]

As Sash seems far more popular, I have a few things to point:

1. And what if your opponent has a Weather Summoner? Do you use a weather cleaning move, or rely on different sweepers?

2. Also, how useful you think priority moves are? Would you give Floatzel/Azumarill Aqua Jet and Waterfall, Infernape/Lucario Vaccuum Wave and CC/Aura Sphere? Some spreads would be great examples.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Well, it really depends if it's PBR or the Battle Tower. It's much different going against lucky AI than a human.

I wouldn't bother carrying a weather clearer in 3 vs 3 just because a Pokemon on my team had a Sash. Maybe if both the clearer and Sashed Pokemon benefitted from the weather change.

As for priority, depends on the Pokemon. Lucario still likes his Extremespeed, Scizor loves his Bullet Punch and Azumarill still wants Aqua Jet.

 

[Xia]

I tend to use Focus Sash + Priority attacks a lot more often than Life Orb, simply because the recoil and fragility of my sweepers is not worth the damage increase.

 

[gabriel]

Well, it really depends if it's PBR or the Battle Tower. It's much different going against lucky AI than a human.

Having BF teams a thread for themselves, I'd focus on Wi-Fi 3vs3 metagame.

 

[Carl]

Funny that this is a thread when I just had a WiFi Tower battle in rank 10 that definitely applies: 55-41110-03806. This battle covers pretty much everything in action.

Focus Sash is a game breaker pretty much all the time. Turning what you as an opponent think is an easy OHKO into a 2HKO can have extremely dire consequences and will easily sway a match sometimes. Negating sash is also huge. As you'll see in the video, Sash helps way more than Life Orb. In retrospect there's a few things I should have done differently but hindsight is 20/20..

 

[VashTheStampede]

When it comes to Tower Style of play (3v3, whatever), somebody said something in the old topic about playing survivability is the smarter thing to do. Using things such as Sash, Damage-reduction berries, or hell, even Priority. I've seen some TR teams go the distance as well, leading with a common uber-bulk TR poke, and then going to slower, more powerful, things with massive attacking stats and moves, as well as great priority.

But yea, I would play it the safer way, with some Priority moves, Sashes, and damage reduction..

 

[gabriel]

It's clear that sash seems to be a better option, so, in order to improve the discussion, I'd like people to post a few movesets and strategies they once used. A successful LO user would also be a great contribuiton.

 

[Purg]

Funny that this is a thread when I just had a WiFi Tower battle in rank 10 that definitely applies: 55-41110-03806. This battle covers pretty much everything in action.

Focus Sash is a game breaker pretty much all the time. Turning what you as an opponent think is an easy OHKO into a 2HKO can have extremely dire consequences and will easily sway a match sometimes. Negating sash is also huge. As you'll see in the video, Sash helps way more than Life Orb. In retrospect there's a few things I should have done differently but hindsight is 20/20..

I really liked this battle video, but I don't think it demonstrates how Sash > LO. While it is true that your Weavile could indeed utilize an Orb over the Sash, it didn't make a difference in the end. His CounterTar, on the other hand, would never use a Life Orb - for plenty of obvious reasons.

In any case, it's a nice battle. Shame at the end there...

 

[Carl]

Oh, I didn't mean it in the sense that the pokemon with Focus Sash did better with it than Life Orb or vice versa lol. Probably should have clarified. I meant it in the sense that the Sash on Tyranitar was way more of a game changer than the Life Orb on Latios.

I was actually able to stall down Latios while it slowly removed 10% of its health each time it attacked. As an offensive pokemon, if you can't get the OHKO or 2HKO or whatever that you need, then you run the risk of being stalled out by a bulky pokemon with recovery. Meanwhile, Machamp has an easy OHKO against Tyranitar but because I don't expect the Sash, I end up losing my pokemon and my advantage in the match. If Machamp OHKOs, then I see the next pokemon (probably Latios still) and in this match can sacrifice her to bring in Weavile for an easy KO. Then Zapdos switches into Suicune and if the CH happens still well a) I would survive because Zapdos would be full health and not the 14HP or whatever down that it was and b) at least I had Weavile in reserve in theory.

All speculation, though, since had I used Fake Out on turn 1 Tyranitar could have had Leftovers instead and taken no damage while Weavile loses a bit of HP for no reason. I might start Fake Outting Tyranitar from now on, though.

Glad you enjoyed the battle.. the end is just "pokemon." sigh.

 

[Snorlaxe]

When using powerful but frail sweepers like Persian, Cacturne, Honchkrow, Floatzel, which item do you prefer to use?

lol, Since when is Persian a powerful sweeper? xD

I think that Sash is better overall for getting the kill and staying alive, but the extra kick from Life Orb is a bummer. I prefer Focus Sash, though, as long as there is no weather/entry hazards up.

 

[gabriel]

lol, Since when is Persian a powerful sweeper? xD

I prefer Focus Sash, though, as long as there is no weather/entry hazards up.

Well, Persian is fast, can put stuff to sleep, NP, and have acess to interesting boosted moves, like Water Pulse (Surf that can confuse), Icy Wind (a mix of TWave and IB lol), Charge Beam (mix of NP and TBolt - ok, I better stop with that) not to mention HP (unlikely, since we're talking about a in-game metagame, but anyway), the actual BoltBeam and Shadow Ball.

Since Persian is hard to pull off without Hypnosis, I'd never suggest it to hax BF, but he can be fun to use on PBR or Wi-Fi Tower. Other than Focus Sash, Wide Lens would be a cosiderable option if you use Charge or Icy.

If you're gonna use Focus Sash, either your sweeper don't mind losing it in an eventual Weather Disturbance, or your team will have to deal with it. I may post a team later to try to heaten up the subject. To post that using Focus Sash is preferencial if there's no weather around is just redundant.

 

[Purg]

Oh, I didn't mean it in the sense that the pokemon with Focus Sash did better with it than Life Orb or vice versa lol. Probably should have clarified. I meant it in the sense that the Sash on Tyranitar was way more of a game changer than the Life Orb on Latios.

I was actually able to stall down Latios while it slowly removed 10% of its health each time it attacked. As an offensive pokemon, if you can't get the OHKO or 2HKO or whatever that you need, then you run the risk of being stalled out by a bulky pokemon with recovery. Meanwhile, Machamp has an easy OHKO against Tyranitar but because I don't expect the Sash, I end up losing my pokemon and my advantage in the match. If Machamp OHKOs, then I see the next pokemon (probably Latios still) and in this match can sacrifice her to bring in Weavile for an easy KO. Then Zapdos switches into Suicune and if the CH happens still well a) I would survive because Zapdos would be full health and not the 14HP or whatever down that it was and b) at least I had Weavile in reserve in theory.

All speculation, though, since had I used Fake Out on turn 1 Tyranitar could have had Leftovers instead and taken no damage while Weavile loses a bit of HP for no reason. I might start Fake Outting Tyranitar from now on, though.

Glad you enjoyed the battle.. the end is just "pokemon." sigh.

Ah yes, then I fully understand your point. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have to say, after reading the topic and pondering over it, I can't really think of a good example of where a Life Orb might be preferable to a Focus Sash in 3 vs. 3. It's not like people will bother setting up any rocks or laying down spikes, when you're just racing to deal damage. Weather is really the only issue, but one could always use pokémon that are immune to weather (Tyranitar, Lucario and Mamoswine(!) comes to mind).