lost heros
Meme Master
Hey everyone, I want to start a conversation on Status Z-moves and if offensive Z-moves are banned will Status Z-Moves go with them.
When the ladder first went up, literally no one was using Status Z-moves, because let'a face it: they look like shit. The only one that was ever really considered was Z-conversion. However, as of recent they've become slightly more notable, although not by much. Strangely, Z-Celebrate, conversion, Forest's Curse, Geomancy, Happy Hour, Hold Hands, Purify, Sketch and Trick-or-treat are the least used Z-status moves. As the only notable pokemon that runs one of those is Porygon-Z which usually runs specs or scarf anyways.
The best Z-status moves are Charm and Reflect which work incredibly simply. Is there a physical attack? If so cut its power by 3, which is by god insane. XSTATIC COLD came up with Z-Reflect/psychic Tapu Lele, while I originally used Z-Charm Alolan-Persian. I've since moved on to Z-Charm Umbreon because of the increased special bulk and recovery option. (I'll make a post about that beast later). And those aren't the only potential Reflect/Charm users. Reflect, Charm, and Feather Dance which all do the same thing have a fairly nice distribution and there is a lot of potential for these physically bulky sets.
Unfortunately there's no really good special counterpart. Z-Eerie Impulse, which has the same affect specially, has no good users really. I have however used Z-Cosmic Power Deoxys-D which raises Sp. Def by one in addition to the one from regular Cosmic Power. Originally everyone I went up against said it was complete trash, but then I would usually beat them with it and trigger them.
Now outside the additional +1s (and the occasional +2s), what makes Status Z-moves so great (because let's face it they still don't seem that great)? They bypass typical Stall answers. Z-crystals can't be tricked. I've won tons of battles turn 1 when Porygon-Z, Jirachi, Victini, and Latios have all tried to trick my Deoxys-D. They bypass taunt. Even when taunted by Mega-Gyarados, Umbreon still neuters it. They also bypass encore/disable, which just ruins Mega-Alakazam's day. All of this means that what were once impossible match-ups for stall Pokemon like Deoxys-D become easy wins, which is insane. Gone are the days of simply putting Trick on your Choice threats to shut down stall pokemon. Gone are the days where simply Taunting Taunt-bait that just wants to use toxic (I lost earlier to a Z-Toxic Toxapex).
So, now the question is: are they as good as Z-Attacks and would they get banned together? My answer is that they're different than Z-Attacks, but probably worse. Z-Status moves, in my experience, make a Stall mon's match-up more favorable by adding a slight benefit or bypassing typical answers. Z-Attacks overwhelm the opposing pokemon with raw power, which in an offensive metagame like 1v1 is probably better. Since they are reasonably different, I'd argue they shouldn't be banned together, however, because they operate on the same mechanic, and I absolutely despise complex/in-game bans, I'll say they be treated as one.
So, what does anyone else have to say? Good Z-Status Users? Are Z-Status Moves broken? Should they be banned alongside Z-Attacks, if those get banned?
When the ladder first went up, literally no one was using Status Z-moves, because let'a face it: they look like shit. The only one that was ever really considered was Z-conversion. However, as of recent they've become slightly more notable, although not by much. Strangely, Z-Celebrate, conversion, Forest's Curse, Geomancy, Happy Hour, Hold Hands, Purify, Sketch and Trick-or-treat are the least used Z-status moves. As the only notable pokemon that runs one of those is Porygon-Z which usually runs specs or scarf anyways.
The best Z-status moves are Charm and Reflect which work incredibly simply. Is there a physical attack? If so cut its power by 3, which is by god insane. XSTATIC COLD came up with Z-Reflect/psychic Tapu Lele, while I originally used Z-Charm Alolan-Persian. I've since moved on to Z-Charm Umbreon because of the increased special bulk and recovery option. (I'll make a post about that beast later). And those aren't the only potential Reflect/Charm users. Reflect, Charm, and Feather Dance which all do the same thing have a fairly nice distribution and there is a lot of potential for these physically bulky sets.
Unfortunately there's no really good special counterpart. Z-Eerie Impulse, which has the same affect specially, has no good users really. I have however used Z-Cosmic Power Deoxys-D which raises Sp. Def by one in addition to the one from regular Cosmic Power. Originally everyone I went up against said it was complete trash, but then I would usually beat them with it and trigger them.
Now outside the additional +1s (and the occasional +2s), what makes Status Z-moves so great (because let's face it they still don't seem that great)? They bypass typical Stall answers. Z-crystals can't be tricked. I've won tons of battles turn 1 when Porygon-Z, Jirachi, Victini, and Latios have all tried to trick my Deoxys-D. They bypass taunt. Even when taunted by Mega-Gyarados, Umbreon still neuters it. They also bypass encore/disable, which just ruins Mega-Alakazam's day. All of this means that what were once impossible match-ups for stall Pokemon like Deoxys-D become easy wins, which is insane. Gone are the days of simply putting Trick on your Choice threats to shut down stall pokemon. Gone are the days where simply Taunting Taunt-bait that just wants to use toxic (I lost earlier to a Z-Toxic Toxapex).
So, now the question is: are they as good as Z-Attacks and would they get banned together? My answer is that they're different than Z-Attacks, but probably worse. Z-Status moves, in my experience, make a Stall mon's match-up more favorable by adding a slight benefit or bypassing typical answers. Z-Attacks overwhelm the opposing pokemon with raw power, which in an offensive metagame like 1v1 is probably better. Since they are reasonably different, I'd argue they shouldn't be banned together, however, because they operate on the same mechanic, and I absolutely despise complex/in-game bans, I'll say they be treated as one.
So, what does anyone else have to say? Good Z-Status Users? Are Z-Status Moves broken? Should they be banned alongside Z-Attacks, if those get banned?