DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
Thank you. I had no idea how to do it anyway
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Look at my gouging check, tera dragon Rillaboom.
How does it check gouging? I won't explain.
I thought you already had Daschbun!
Yeah, but I can at the very least hit it for good damage with stabs, rather than lick.
Enjoyment: 4
Competitiveness: 2
I really dislike how many absurdly powerful mons there are right now in this meta, I believe that it very much constricts the number of possible options there are in teambuilding and forces players into far too many coinflips and mindgames for a consistently fun and competitive experience. Entire archetypes are either unviable or forced into a selection of 6 required mons to answer broken threats.
5
This mon is absurdly bulky, can use a large variety of sets, can tera to take advantage of its checks, and even often breaks through dondozo, the obvious check to any physical setup sweeper. This dog is blatantly broken, and I believe that we need to send a third sun abusing fire type to ubers this generation.
5
Roaring moon is a very similar case to gouging, with its sun abuse and set variety, but is also faster and hits harder outside of sun, but isn't as bulky. This mon abuses a million tera types and every one can and will sweep you if you happen to get its tera wrong.
4
A third physically offensive late-game sweeper that abuses tera and can break through would-be counters seemingly out of nowhere? This is getting repetitive. Gambit has the special bonus of being the mon that punishes you for winning the game. I think that the top 2 are more unbalanced, but this guy is also difficult to deal with consistently.
3
Waterpon hits very hard and can break through teams with ease, and can be even more of a pain if your answer for it is the same as your answer for the previous 3. However, its sets are not as varied and it relies on an offensive tera a lot of the time to buy turns, so you know what you're getting on team preview. I still believe this mon is unhealthy, there are just bigger fish to fry.
3
Volc can set up on a large portion of the tier and ruin teams when it has the right coverage. It continues its legacy as the matchup moth, as its set can vary from useless to oppressive in any given game. It is, however, not as bulky as gouging, not as fast as RM, and suffers greatly when knocked off, even if its sets are very strong. It's not as problematic as some of the other stuff, maybe it will be looked at or be broken if something else is banned.
2
It can get out of control with body press, sure. Zama doesn't really strike me as something that's especially difficult to check, though, especially since ghost and flying types usually switch in very well and can threaten it out, particularly zapdos and gholdengo. Coverage on banded sets can do a fair chunk, but it's kinda just a decent offensive mon.
2
Ghold is not really a problem in my eyes. It does make hazard removal much more difficult, but the Ghold can be threatened and isn't especially oppressive offensively, so switching into it isn't a big issue a lot of the time. The problem is usually guessing its set, but after you know that it can be handled by most teams.
2
Raging bolt can take good advantage of tera to set up, but its lack of good coverage without weather ball and its inability to deal with ground types make it easy to take advantage of. This mon is balanced.
1
Who invited my man blud? Bro thinks he's getting suspected
Competitiveness: 2
I really dislike how many absurdly powerful mons there are right now in this meta, I believe that it very much constricts the number of possible options there are in teambuilding and forces players into far too many coinflips and mindgames for a consistently fun and competitive experience. Entire archetypes are either unviable or forced into a selection of 6 required mons to answer broken threats.
This mon is absurdly bulky, can use a large variety of sets, can tera to take advantage of its checks, and even often breaks through dondozo, the obvious check to any physical setup sweeper. This dog is blatantly broken, and I believe that we need to send a third sun abusing fire type to ubers this generation.
Roaring moon is a very similar case to gouging, with its sun abuse and set variety, but is also faster and hits harder outside of sun, but isn't as bulky. This mon abuses a million tera types and every one can and will sweep you if you happen to get its tera wrong.
A third physically offensive late-game sweeper that abuses tera and can break through would-be counters seemingly out of nowhere? This is getting repetitive. Gambit has the special bonus of being the mon that punishes you for winning the game. I think that the top 2 are more unbalanced, but this guy is also difficult to deal with consistently.
Waterpon hits very hard and can break through teams with ease, and can be even more of a pain if your answer for it is the same as your answer for the previous 3. However, its sets are not as varied and it relies on an offensive tera a lot of the time to buy turns, so you know what you're getting on team preview. I still believe this mon is unhealthy, there are just bigger fish to fry.
Volc can set up on a large portion of the tier and ruin teams when it has the right coverage. It continues its legacy as the matchup moth, as its set can vary from useless to oppressive in any given game. It is, however, not as bulky as gouging, not as fast as RM, and suffers greatly when knocked off, even if its sets are very strong. It's not as problematic as some of the other stuff, maybe it will be looked at or be broken if something else is banned.
It can get out of control with body press, sure. Zama doesn't really strike me as something that's especially difficult to check, though, especially since ghost and flying types usually switch in very well and can threaten it out, particularly zapdos and gholdengo. Coverage on banded sets can do a fair chunk, but it's kinda just a decent offensive mon.
Ghold is not really a problem in my eyes. It does make hazard removal much more difficult, but the Ghold can be threatened and isn't especially oppressive offensively, so switching into it isn't a big issue a lot of the time. The problem is usually guessing its set, but after you know that it can be handled by most teams.
Raging bolt can take good advantage of tera to set up, but its lack of good coverage without weather ball and its inability to deal with ground types make it easy to take advantage of. This mon is balanced.
Who invited my man blud? Bro thinks he's getting suspected
my personal metric for the survey:
1: what does he even do
2: i wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a suspect, it wouldn't be a grave misapplication of policy like it'd be for something i voted 1 on, but i'd vote dnb (as if i can get reqs lmao) and campaign for it not to be banned
3: definitely a suspect, but not a high-priority one, i could go either way on the vote
4: high-priority suspect and a firm ban vote from me, but not quickban-worthy
5: mr. electric, kill him
As always you have the most based takes.Enjoy/Compet = 1
Tera: Action and outright ban
5. So many people already nailed this. QB pls.
View attachment 609409 3. Trouble, questionable, not now.
5 Predicable and yet a bs.
5 Flexible and a bs.
and
4. But only due Tera. 1 without this.
5: Not priority now, but opressive until at teambuild, just to keep it in mind.
2: Could be 1, but no inocents here.
4: Necessary evil, but yet evil, not priority.
Others: Valiant/BE, QD/QC, Kyurem, Dondozo.
This is why scales are not a good way to handle surveys, everyone interprets a 1-5 differently, meaning its much harder to interpret results and take meaningfull actions. A QB/Supsect/Do Nothing, or even labels on the 1-5 would be much more effective, so we don't need "personal metrics."
Either QB's are off the table in this metagame or the lurkers swing even more no-ban heavy than I thought, because the forum poster average so far is Baxcalibur levels of damning.
Current average of the forum posters (22 posts +me):
| Gouging Fire | 4.57 |
| Ogerpon-W | 3.22 |
| Roaring Moon | 3.61 |
| Volcarona | 3.09 |
| Raging Bolt | 3.61 |
| Kingambit | 3.26 |
| Zamazenta | 2.09 |
| Gholdengo | 3 |
| Garganacl | 1.7 |
Given Finch said Gouging Fire is likely going to be suspected rather than quickbanned, and that its the only mon mentioned so far, we can assume it is the highest mon on the survey from qualified players, and that its average right now is less than or equal to the Sleep Quickban of 3.7
Remember, people posting here are likely going to be on ends of the extreme if they care enough to vote and post results. At the very least GF no way has above a 4.
Remember, people posting here are likely going to be on ends of the extreme if they care enough to vote and post results. At the very least GF no way has above a 4.
I know this isn't a good metric to see things getting banned, but lmao 1.7 on garg is funny, cause that shit ain't going to be on a survey again if the scores are like this.
That's actually demonstrably false. Finchinator said that as long as one OU Council member wants a mon included on a survey it will be included on the survey. I do not believe a low score disqualifies a mon from being on the survey.
Sure, but it would be a lot harder to justify it going on the survey. Garg could be on every survey to the end of this gen, but it would be weird for it to be.
But it is written right on the survey that 5 is banworthy, 3 is potentially banworthy, and 1 is fine…
Not true. Garg usage rises as more offensive threats get banned. It will get more attention over time.
Bookmark this post- Garg is a uncompetitive, toxic piece of shit. No it is not unbeatable.
you're 3 threads too late for this take bro
I mean, sure, something doesn't have to unbeatable to be ban worthy, but I don't think it's uncompetitive. Annoying to deal with? Absolutely. But not uncompetitive as it punishes passive teams, and in this meta you can't be passive, so I think it's sort of a skill check in a way. You can still lose to it, but if your team can't deal with it at all i.e. you lose to Garg at preview, then that's a team building problem.
Also, while Garg stocks may rise, it won't be to a ban worthy state in my opinion. But hey, if you think that it will then go for it.
Garg can feel oppressive when it gets it's shit going, but currently, I feel it needs to be paired with too many other honest mons like Corv, Tusk, and Clod in order to have a reasonably strong defensive backbone. While Garg can carry certain match-ups when supported well, it feels just as easy for it to thud against Spikes pressure & be overwhelmed by offensive pressure. It's not like Gouging Fire, where you need to manage other big dogs like Walking Wake and Raging Bolt on top of it. Imo it is similar to Kyurem and Gliscor. A strong and potentially oppressive mon held back by the structures it's locked to.
This could Moreso be a building problem, but this is currently how I feel after failing to make a ton of Garg teams over the past week.
This could Moreso be a building problem, but this is currently how I feel after failing to make a ton of Garg teams over the past week.
There's a lot of pokemon that Force garg to tera, and they put way too much pressure on it. rillaboom, walking wake, ogerpon, skewda, meowscarada, serperior, primarina, Gholdengo. Previosly garg liiked to tera water but as we can see they are just too many offensive grass types in the tier, and theyre solidly ou no chance of them getting banned. Do you tera flying? because raging bolt can now OHKO you. tera fairy cops it from ghold. tera ghost is maybe the most solid right now? but when you see darkrai garg will be sweating. Theres more than it can reasonably cover
I’ve seen Tera Ghost Garg lately. It can sit on every single one of those mons with the right Tera. And spread its shit.
I listed Gliscor because it’s the same but even more Toxic. “But Ice Spinner!” Gliscor outlasts Tusk, bro. It opens the fridge, grabs a beer, and sits down on the couch. Toxic, Protect, Spikes, Protect, Switch, Protect, Spikes, Protect, Protect, Switch…zzzzzzz
If a Mon wants to pull up a chair and sit on the field forever that is its god given right, leave Gliscor alone. I Will say Ghost Garg is annoying af, whenever I face a ghost Garg dude they pop that shit instantly and I'm like "well I suppose there's absolutely nothing I can do about this"
I've only really been running stall this meta because I don't like HO which is too good rn, so that's informing my ratings.
I long for a world where I can run items other than HDB on mons not named Clefable or Gliscor. This thing does its job by existing in the meta. It doesn't even have to be on the opposing team to apply value. It's a little annoying how polarizing this thing is. It's either 5 or 2/1 depending on the person. Anybody who doesn't see this thing's influence is covering their eyes.
This thing's job vs stall is to force in and knock off Dozo. The real offender is but this thing can go too.
This thing is like Ursaluna vs stall. SD + Play Rough has no checks. Dozo is always tera fighting to stop fallen 5 tera dark gambit, so it's not running tera grass. It's good in general too, so please go bye bye
Also needs to go bye bye. I don't feel like I should have to even say how silly this thing is.
I didn't even realize this was good still. Match-up fish. Stall is not that match-up.
A little scary, but not too scary because they can be reliably walled
Might actually be annoying if anyone used it. Why is this here???
This thing is getting voted off the island next. The support is there for it overwhelmingly. Beats whatever it wants.
Tera tiering action could start with team preview like VGC
I long for a world where I can run items other than HDB on mons not named Clefable or Gliscor. This thing does its job by existing in the meta. It doesn't even have to be on the opposing team to apply value. It's a little annoying how polarizing this thing is. It's either 5 or 2/1 depending on the person. Anybody who doesn't see this thing's influence is covering their eyes. This thing's job vs stall is to force in and knock off Dozo. The real offender is but this thing can go too. This thing is like Ursaluna vs stall. SD + Play Rough has no checks. Dozo is always tera fighting to stop fallen 5 tera dark gambit, so it's not running tera grass. It's good in general too, so please go bye bye Also needs to go bye bye. I don't feel like I should have to even say how silly this thing is. I didn't even realize this was good still. Match-up fish. Stall is not that match-up. A little scary, but not too scary because they can be reliably walled Might actually be annoying if anyone used it. Why is this here??? This thing is getting voted off the island next. The support is there for it overwhelmingly. Beats whatever it wants.Tera tiering action could start with team preview like VGC
Being forced to tera isn't really good. That's just a tera sink, as you are forced to tera Garg if you don't want to lose to very common mons. That severely restricts your flexibility since now you can't tera anything else to deal with threats. Even a mon like dondozo can beat Garg, since Garg can't even do Id+bp shenanigans since unaware ignores the boosts and it can boost up itself. You do have to keep dondozo at full health, but it can beat it. And as they said, ghost is Garg's best tera type rn, but Darkrai destroys it. You just have to hit Garg hard, you can't dance around it passively, otherwise it will screw you over seven ways to Sunday.
Gliscor is a top mon for a reason, but not ban worthy. Even something like rilla can deal with it, as wood hammer can 2hit ko it. Gliscor is another mon that punishes passivity. Plus, it does have 4mss, as it needs protect and e-quake, but wants a combination of knock, toxic, spikes, SD, facade or even U-turn or poison jab. It can still function, but the counters are just hit it hard.
No, Tera Preview would make the meta markedly worse by telegraphing your counterplay, which would lead to more stomp matchups and true 50/50 situations. A Tera Blast ban is the only acceptable Tera restriction
I feel like if we had the gen 4 -> 5 team preview change happen today, people would be arguing against it for the exact same reason. In other words, I don't find that to be a good reason to dismiss the idea. It would objectively make tera blast worse, so I'll stand by it as a reasonable first step.