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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]
- Thread starter bb skarm
- Start date
- Status
Braviary + Extremespeed
Honorable Mention: Bug/Ground Mega Beedrill
Honorable Mention: Bug/Ground Mega Beedrill
I just realised that this link at the end of the OP still goes to the old thread run by Sun King (which has been closed), rather than Unfixable's version.
May wanna update that, as it may be a slight contributor as to why the OU Theorymon Metagame thread is practically dead.
Unfixable's is currently floating somewhere on the 2nd page of OMs
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-theorymon.3536615/
AIGHT
WINNER:
+ GOTTA GO FAST
HONORABLE MENTION WINNERS:
+ Sand Rush
+ Bug / Ground Typing
VOTES:
Desolate Land Camerupt: 12 (Joins Cast of Honorable Mentions)
Ghost/Fighting Banette + Drain Punch: 16 (Joins Cast of Honorable Mentions)
Extreme Speed Braviary: 36
Fiery Dance Noivern: 4
NEW SLATE:
+ Weak Armor
+ Gale Wings
+ Thick Fat
+ Mono Steel typing + King's Shield
A few words from Sun King [PLEASE READ]:
WINNER:
HONORABLE MENTION WINNERS:
VOTES:
Desolate Land Camerupt: 12 (Joins Cast of Honorable Mentions)
Ghost/Fighting Banette + Drain Punch: 16 (Joins Cast of Honorable Mentions)
Extreme Speed Braviary: 36
Fiery Dance Noivern: 4
NEW SLATE:
A few words from Sun King [PLEASE READ]:
[rant]I literally wrote this up early so nobody would niNJA ME[/rant]
First time in a long time that I've actually written a huge essay for this thread thanks to how busy I've been with other projects, so here we go.
King's Shield + Steel-type Bastiodon is certainly an interesting one. Having similar bulk to Aegislash overall, plus a defensive typing that, unlike said Aegislash, isn't weak to Pursuit or Knock Off, will definitely increase its viability tenfold. Having great support options such as Stealth Rock, Magic Coat, Metal Burst and now King's Shield will make it hard to break. It even offers a last second check to physical sweepers such as Gyarados and Mega Scizor as well as bring a decent check to Mega Altaria all in one (loses to Fire Blast versions if it tries to switch in I:). However, this is where the positives unfortunately end. Bastiodon has little to no offensive presence and, combine that with no reliable recovery, it can be easily taken advantage of. And, this is a bit of a unique complaint, but I seriously hate King's Shield as a move. It creates a terrible game of stop and go and causes even offensive games to slow to a crawl. So yeah, overall, decent, but I'm not a huge fan of this and it certainly won't be my first choice on this slate.
Weak Armor Mega Garchomp is, uh, actually a monster. At +1 Speed, Mega Garchomp outspeeds pretty much the entire metagame (non-Scarf Pokemon, of course). Combine that with a massive attacking stats, good dual STABs and Swords Dance, and you've got yourself an unstopable force of nature. This seriously punishes U-Turn users, as U-turn from Pokemon such as Landorus-T does next to nothing and Mega Garchomp just gets a Speed boost from that and prepares to wreck souls. Thanks to its massive defenses, even at -1, this thing's gonna be damn hard to revenge kill. You know what, I'm just gonna leave this here...
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 160-189 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO
That's at -1 Defense. Yeah. Take that into perspecive.
I mean, it does take up a Mega slot, but that's probably the biggest problem with it. This thing will absolutely tear though so many teams. I know it likes having Sand Force to beak down walls a lot easier, but unlike Sand Force, Garchomp won't be dependent on Sand anymore.
Gale Wings Swanna is super adorable. Having two great dual STABs that few things actually resist, as well as priority Hurricane, Defog, Brave Bird, Tailwind, Roost, and hell, even Feather Dance, makes this pretty viable. Sadly, it doesn't get Waterfall (why ;___;), but going mixed with Scald, or purely special if you want that, is nice. It can even abuse Rain really, really well, teaming up with Mega Swampert in being able to take on bulky Grass-type Pokemon such as Celebi and Mega Venusaur, as well as 100% accurate, undodgeable Hurricanes. I mean, it's super frail, and a weakness to Stealth Rock isn't helping that, and unlike Talonflame, it's pretty weak offensively and has no way of boosting that, but it's still going to be a decent option. Torn between this and Garchomp.
Thick Fat Gogoat... Man Pato, not gonna lie but you have some really good suggestions here. Thick Fat makes Gogoat actually, like, really good. Specially Defencive with Bulk Up is going to be extremely hard to break after a few boost. Just an example on how bulky it is, Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the Sun does just barely over half. That's literally one of the most powerful special wallbreakers in the tier, and it just barely does half. This leaves Gogoat's sole weaknesses as Bug and Flying. Sadly, Talonflame is everywhere these days, and U-Turn users such as Scizor and Landorus-T are getting a whole lot more common. Still, Gogoat is a really nice option thanks to Bulk Up and reliable recovery in Milk Drink, and I can see this getting some usage, honestly there isn't a lot to say for this one.
Not only an I really excited for the honorable mentions (I love Bug / Ground Beedril), but this another really good slate, honestly, I like where this is going. I want to give a personal thanks to two people who have been really dedicated in submitting things (Looking at you, Dratios and JJJr. , you've had some nice stuff recently, don't think it's going unnoticed), and we're getting some nice submissions from the whole community and I want to thank everyone who votes constantly and keeps participation up. Ily guys n_n
Edit: get wrecked sun king
First time in a long time that I've actually written a huge essay for this thread thanks to how busy I've been with other projects, so here we go.
King's Shield + Steel-type Bastiodon is certainly an interesting one. Having similar bulk to Aegislash overall, plus a defensive typing that, unlike said Aegislash, isn't weak to Pursuit or Knock Off, will definitely increase its viability tenfold. Having great support options such as Stealth Rock, Magic Coat, Metal Burst and now King's Shield will make it hard to break. It even offers a last second check to physical sweepers such as Gyarados and Mega Scizor as well as bring a decent check to Mega Altaria all in one (loses to Fire Blast versions if it tries to switch in I:). However, this is where the positives unfortunately end. Bastiodon has little to no offensive presence and, combine that with no reliable recovery, it can be easily taken advantage of. And, this is a bit of a unique complaint, but I seriously hate King's Shield as a move. It creates a terrible game of stop and go and causes even offensive games to slow to a crawl. So yeah, overall, decent, but I'm not a huge fan of this and it certainly won't be my first choice on this slate.
Weak Armor Mega Garchomp is, uh, actually a monster. At +1 Speed, Mega Garchomp outspeeds pretty much the entire metagame (non-Scarf Pokemon, of course). Combine that with a massive attacking stats, good dual STABs and Swords Dance, and you've got yourself an unstopable force of nature. This seriously punishes U-Turn users, as U-turn from Pokemon such as Landorus-T does next to nothing and Mega Garchomp just gets a Speed boost from that and prepares to wreck souls. Thanks to its massive defenses, even at -1, this thing's gonna be damn hard to revenge kill. You know what, I'm just gonna leave this here...
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 160-189 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO
That's at -1 Defense. Yeah. Take that into perspecive.
I mean, it does take up a Mega slot, but that's probably the biggest problem with it. This thing will absolutely tear though so many teams. I know it likes having Sand Force to beak down walls a lot easier, but unlike Sand Force, Garchomp won't be dependent on Sand anymore.
Gale Wings Swanna is super adorable. Having two great dual STABs that few things actually resist, as well as priority Hurricane, Defog, Brave Bird, Tailwind, Roost, and hell, even Feather Dance, makes this pretty viable. Sadly, it doesn't get Waterfall (why ;___;), but going mixed with Scald, or purely special if you want that, is nice. It can even abuse Rain really, really well, teaming up with Mega Swampert in being able to take on bulky Grass-type Pokemon such as Celebi and Mega Venusaur, as well as 100% accurate, undodgeable Hurricanes. I mean, it's super frail, and a weakness to Stealth Rock isn't helping that, and unlike Talonflame, it's pretty weak offensively and has no way of boosting that, but it's still going to be a decent option. Torn between this and Garchomp.
Thick Fat Gogoat... Man Pato, not gonna lie but you have some really good suggestions here. Thick Fat makes Gogoat actually, like, really good. Specially Defencive with Bulk Up is going to be extremely hard to break after a few boost. Just an example on how bulky it is, Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the Sun does just barely over half. That's literally one of the most powerful special wallbreakers in the tier, and it just barely does half. This leaves Gogoat's sole weaknesses as Bug and Flying. Sadly, Talonflame is everywhere these days, and U-Turn users such as Scizor and Landorus-T are getting a whole lot more common. Still, Gogoat is a really nice option thanks to Bulk Up and reliable recovery in Milk Drink, and I can see this getting some usage, honestly there isn't a lot to say for this one.
Not only an I really excited for the honorable mentions (I love Bug / Ground Beedril), but this another really good slate, honestly, I like where this is going. I want to give a personal thanks to two people who have been really dedicated in submitting things (Looking at you, Dratios and JJJr. , you've had some nice stuff recently, don't think it's going unnoticed), and we're getting some nice submissions from the whole community and I want to thank everyone who votes constantly and keeps participation up. Ily guys n_n
Edit: get wrecked sun king
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Just a few words before y'all post…
First, I'm really happy to see everyone taking to the Honorable Mentions so naturally. I was convinced there'd be a few hiccups, but I was pleasantly surprised! I will be updating the list of things constantly, so you'll have to make sure you read the voting posts every slate to keep up with the Honorable mentions.
Second, I'm disappointed in the number of votes we had last slate. I was pretty sure we'd be able to snag a bunch more than before, but we actually went down again. I've noticed a bunch of people lurking and not voting/contributing at all, and I urge all lurkers to contribute! If you enjoy reading the stuff in this thread, the least you can do is spend the 5 seconds and 1 post voting. Hell--you might even get a like for your vote if you are patriotic enough.
To those of you lurking without an account: I'd love to see you make an account just to contribute here. I can understand your hesitation; I think we all lurked a bit before creating our accounts. I only hope that we can persuade you to join the ranks of Smogonites and Theorymonners!
Carry on y'all :)
EDIT: Mysteria , unfixable , Valmanway , Celticpride : Petition to remove Recreant from council?
First, I'm really happy to see everyone taking to the Honorable Mentions so naturally. I was convinced there'd be a few hiccups, but I was pleasantly surprised! I will be updating the list of things constantly, so you'll have to make sure you read the voting posts every slate to keep up with the Honorable mentions.
Second, I'm disappointed in the number of votes we had last slate. I was pretty sure we'd be able to snag a bunch more than before, but we actually went down again. I've noticed a bunch of people lurking and not voting/contributing at all, and I urge all lurkers to contribute! If you enjoy reading the stuff in this thread, the least you can do is spend the 5 seconds and 1 post voting. Hell--you might even get a like for your vote if you are patriotic enough.
To those of you lurking without an account: I'd love to see you make an account just to contribute here. I can understand your hesitation; I think we all lurked a bit before creating our accounts. I only hope that we can persuade you to join the ranks of Smogonites and Theorymonners!
Carry on y'all :)
EDIT: Mysteria , unfixable , Valmanway , Celticpride : Petition to remove Recreant from council?
OK, so this slate is looking solid af it's gonna be tough to select only one of these buggers n_n
Before all, I'd like to thank all of you who voted for my bby sand rush cacturneeven tho I wasn't among them.
Now onto the slate.
Weak Armor Mega Garchomp: Oh yes. This thing would be amazing. Its defenses are already awesome as is, so a -1 here or there isn't too bad, especially when you're abusing the +1 speed to destroy everything around you. This would be a major, major threat. At -1, I think the only unboosted priority that bops you is Talonflame's Banded Brave Bird. There's not really much else to say about it. It looks really solid, and probably has my vote atm.
EDIT: Due to a spectacularly idiotic oversight on my part, I failed to recognize Ice Shard as one of the priorities that bops Mega Garchomp at -1. So all you need to do is get rid of Mamo, Talonflame, and Weavile and sweep.
Gale Wings Swanna: fun fact: swanna has a higher attack than talonflame, and its level up movepool is entirely water and flying moves
OK, but enough nerd stuff. If anything needs Gale Wings, it's Swanna. Priority Defog is a total yes, and Talonflame already gets the other stuff lel. Mixed is probably the best option unless you're a fan of Dive and Steel Wing. Also, you could be really cheeky and have paralysis support and priority Air Slash >:)
LGI PRIORITY SKY ATTACK
Thick Fat Gogoat sounds really good. To me, at least, it seems like a bit of a poor man's Mega Venusaur. It does have Bulk Up and Horn Leech going for it though, which is nice, not to mention Milk Drink. I'll probably write more about this later.
Bastiodon with Mono-Steel and King's Shield is good... so good, in fact, that I don't think I'll be voting for it. Mono-Steel typing alleviates its massive pool of weaknesses, but King's Shield as a move is too broken imo. I mean, it turns battles into annoying mind games, and when its opponent is at -2 Attack Bastiodon is practically untouchable physically.While this is a great submission, I think it's a bit too broken for OU and I most likely won't be voting for it.
Also, a quick thanks to all of the council members for the effort they put in. Sorry if I just sound like an idiot here but the effort you guys put in to make this run smoothly is amazing. Thank you all for just being great n_n
also rip rektreant
Before all, I'd like to thank all of you who voted for my bby sand rush cacturne
Now onto the slate.
Weak Armor Mega Garchomp: Oh yes. This thing would be amazing. Its defenses are already awesome as is, so a -1 here or there isn't too bad, especially when you're abusing the +1 speed to destroy everything around you. This would be a major, major threat. At -1, I think the only unboosted priority that bops you is Talonflame's Banded Brave Bird. There's not really much else to say about it. It looks really solid, and probably has my vote atm.
EDIT: Due to a spectacularly idiotic oversight on my part, I failed to recognize Ice Shard as one of the priorities that bops Mega Garchomp at -1. So all you need to do is get rid of Mamo, Talonflame, and Weavile and sweep.
Gale Wings Swanna: fun fact: swanna has a higher attack than talonflame, and its level up movepool is entirely water and flying moves
OK, but enough nerd stuff. If anything needs Gale Wings, it's Swanna. Priority Defog is a total yes, and Talonflame already gets the other stuff lel. Mixed is probably the best option unless you're a fan of Dive and Steel Wing. Also, you could be really cheeky and have paralysis support and priority Air Slash >:)
Thick Fat Gogoat sounds really good. To me, at least, it seems like a bit of a poor man's Mega Venusaur. It does have Bulk Up and Horn Leech going for it though, which is nice, not to mention Milk Drink. I'll probably write more about this later.
Bastiodon with Mono-Steel and King's Shield is good... so good, in fact, that I don't think I'll be voting for it. Mono-Steel typing alleviates its massive pool of weaknesses, but King's Shield as a move is too broken imo. I mean, it turns battles into annoying mind games, and when its opponent is at -2 Attack Bastiodon is practically untouchable physically.While this is a great submission, I think it's a bit too broken for OU and I most likely won't be voting for it.
Also, a quick thanks to all of the council members for the effort they put in. Sorry if I just sound like an idiot here but the effort you guys put in to make this run smoothly is amazing. Thank you all for just being great n_n
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first off, I'm surprised that there's not a storm of comments on here already with this awesome new slate, or the results of the last one!
Second, what a slate this is! I'll go mon by mon:
Swanna's going to be an amazing rain mon. I was plesently surprised to find that it can 2hko or ohko a surprising amount of the meta with rain, hurricane, and scald. it also has priority defog and roost, making it a great support mon.
Will post more tomorrow.
Second, what a slate this is! I'll go mon by mon:
Swanna's going to be an amazing rain mon. I was plesently surprised to find that it can 2hko or ohko a surprising amount of the meta with rain, hurricane, and scald. it also has priority defog and roost, making it a great support mon.
Will post more tomorrow.
I'm going to nip something in the bud early on…
King's Shield is not a broken move. Let's not let Aegislash cloud our judgment when looking at Bastiodon. King's Shield was a contributing factor as to why Aegislash was banned, but it certainly was not the sole reason. Bastiodon does not get Stance Change, so it's not going to be using God-tier stats like Aegi. King's Shield will be interesting and certainly frustrating when predicting, but the same goes for Protect and Sucker Punch. I don't want to hear people saying that Bastiodon will be broken because of King's Shield because that could not be further from the truth.
King's Shield is not a broken move. Let's not let Aegislash cloud our judgment when looking at Bastiodon. King's Shield was a contributing factor as to why Aegislash was banned, but it certainly was not the sole reason. Bastiodon does not get Stance Change, so it's not going to be using God-tier stats like Aegi. King's Shield will be interesting and certainly frustrating when predicting, but the same goes for Protect and Sucker Punch. I don't want to hear people saying that Bastiodon will be broken because of King's Shield because that could not be further from the truth.
sand cactus club has been realized. this is a good day.
might comment on rest slate more but probably not. either or, the shield mon getting the move kings shield is only fittong and Garchomp's bulk would seem to be compromised if going weak armor route but i get the idea as its at least balanced compared to the other tempts to give the guy speed.
also the nightmares of gen 5 swanna in mono tiershift still haunt me. at least that thing didnt have priority (course it with scarf still felt like it back then). stupid flying moves.
might comment on rest slate more but probably not. either or, the shield mon getting the move kings shield is only fittong and Garchomp's bulk would seem to be compromised if going weak armor route but i get the idea as its at least balanced compared to the other tempts to give the guy speed.
also the nightmares of gen 5 swanna in mono tiershift still haunt me. at least that thing didnt have priority (course it with scarf still felt like it back then). stupid flying moves.
I hate to be Dan the Downer, but...
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 452-536 (126.6 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 437-515 (122.4 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But other than that, I definitely agree. Gar's not going to be easy to stop once it gets going. It's like a runaway train in that regard.
My biggest problem with Bastiodon is that, as Recreant mentioned, it's kind of passive. Aside from Metal Burst, there's nothing in its arsenal that immediately threatens the other side, though I guess you could throw on some Leftovers and go for a Toxic stall set. Actually, now that I think about it, that's not such a bad idea...
Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Impish/Bold
- Magic Coat
- Toxic
- King's Shield
- Metal Burst
I'm not sure how I feel about the other two. Lemme get back to you on those.
Sample Core: M-Garchomp + Infernape + Jirachi
Regardless of M-Garchomps potential to clean offense after getting hit with a contact move it still needs to be covered from things like Weavile and Clefable. These partners are pretty basic, sort of just put it together with two things that I thought were really good with it for a bulky offense / balance build that pairs well with M-Chomp. Using Jolly M-Chomp cause Adamant with +1 gets outpaced by M-Alakazam and M-Aerodactyl and SD already compensates for power to begin with. Wisp Nape probably best set right now and M-Garchomp is going to want a legitimate counter to SD Bisharp, M-Scizor, and Weavile since playing wise you'll want some stuff to cover those when it loses some defense. Subrachi pretty much handles Clefable while wearing down defensive cores with SubToxic giving M-Garchomp more breathing room to still maintain its ability to remove defensive cores. So in retrorespect you have 3 stall-breakers, with two as potential pivots and M-Garchomp able to threaten offense to a degree. You can bump up Jirachis speed to hit 285 btw so that you can also hit Gardevoir before it mega evolves along with not having this core be too weak to the likes of Mamoswine and M-Altaria. 252 HP / 60 SpDef / 196 Speed Careful
I'll check out the others later when I'm more free and think of some stuff up.
Garchomp-Mega @ Garchompite
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / Low Kick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Taunt
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Punch
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / Low Kick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Taunt
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Punch
I'll check out the others later when I'm more free and think of some stuff up.
Swanna + Gale Wings is probably my favourite so far. A mixed set is highly viable and turns Swanna into a fucking great revenge killer. Water and Flying coverage is really great, and Swanna also has Ice Beam to capitalize on that, able to deal with Dragon-types such as Dragonite, Garchomp, and Mega Altaria. With Brave Bird, Swanna is capable of getting past specially bulky foes such as Life Orb Tornadus-T, Assault Vest Slowking, and Life Orb Latios. As seen from Talonflame, abilities really make a difference, and with Gale Wings Swanna becomes an extremely potent revenge killer. Oh and don't underestimate Swanna's offenses, it has higher offenses than Talonflame actually.
Here's a set I'm working on:
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 104 Atk / 204 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam / Defog
Cool mixed revenge killer set I came up with. Has dual STABs, Scald for burn shenanigans, Brave Bird to get past specially bulky stuff like Tornadus-T, Hurricane as a spammable main STAB for the likes of Mega Charizard X, Ice Beam for Dragon-types. Defog is an option to provide priority support if Ice Beam coverage isn't needed.
The EV spread seems complicated, but what 104 Attack EVs do is guaranteeing an OHKO on Hasty Life Orb Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock damage with Brave Bird. 200 Speed with a beneficial nature means Swanna outspeeds Jolly max Speed Landorus-T, but it can be toned down for if Landorus-T isn't a necessary benchmark. Other benchmarks for a neutral nature include 212 Speed for beneficial natured Dragonite, Mega Altaria, Gardevoir, Togekiss, and Mamoswine, 196 Speed for Jolly Diggersby, and 188 Speed for Timid Heatran. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack to buff of Scald, Hurricane, and Ice Beam.
Cool partners include stuff that can take on the likes of Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, which wall Swanna. Examples include Serperior and Latios especially when carrying Hidden Power Fire, Toxic Heatran, and Breloom.
edit: fixed spread
Here's a set I'm working on:
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 104 Atk / 204 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam / Defog
Cool mixed revenge killer set I came up with. Has dual STABs, Scald for burn shenanigans, Brave Bird to get past specially bulky stuff like Tornadus-T, Hurricane as a spammable main STAB for the likes of Mega Charizard X, Ice Beam for Dragon-types. Defog is an option to provide priority support if Ice Beam coverage isn't needed.
The EV spread seems complicated, but what 104 Attack EVs do is guaranteeing an OHKO on Hasty Life Orb Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock damage with Brave Bird. 200 Speed with a beneficial nature means Swanna outspeeds Jolly max Speed Landorus-T, but it can be toned down for if Landorus-T isn't a necessary benchmark. Other benchmarks for a neutral nature include 212 Speed for beneficial natured Dragonite, Mega Altaria, Gardevoir, Togekiss, and Mamoswine, 196 Speed for Jolly Diggersby, and 188 Speed for Timid Heatran. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack to buff of Scald, Hurricane, and Ice Beam.
Cool partners include stuff that can take on the likes of Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, which wall Swanna. Examples include Serperior and Latios especially when carrying Hidden Power Fire, Toxic Heatran, and Breloom.
edit: fixed spread
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you have no idea how much it has failed for me ;-;Foolishly Optimistic Sun King said:
will post thoughts soon!
This slate is amazing.
Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
Yikes! Like as if Garchomp wasn't already lurking around like "Use a physical attack, I dare you," with its Rock Helmet + Rough Skin set. I for one would be extremely hesitant to risk giving a speed boost to a monster with 170/120 offences, great STABs, coverage, and SD. Also Garchomp's troll speed tier creeps Scarf Landorus-T. Honestly this concept of a viable Weak Armor abuser is seeming very threatening. Definitely a creative way to give Mega Garchomp speed without breaking it. With 108/115 physical bulk though this thing is by no means squishy at -1. It'll take a very high amount of power and speed to kill this thing once it gets going.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 313-369 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 216-255 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With those calcs though, bear in mind that Garchomp would have to have taken some prior damage in order for Weak Armor to kick in. So Talon is basically a guaranteed OHKO, and Scizor/Bisharp may have a chance depending on what kind of physical moves Garchomp is willing to take.
I don't think I need to post many offensive calcs given that I think we can assume STAB Earthquakes and Outrages will hurt coming off of 170 base atk. Also at a possible +2.
Honestly this thing is sounding super cool and I can see bucket loads of epic cores built around this thing. AM already posted one. I'm just picturing that one guy who pairs Mega Garchomp with Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and a Chansey. Making Chansey unbreakable cause the opposition is too afraid to use any physical moves xD.
There are a few things holding Mega Garchomp back of course. It is very vulnerable to being worn down and burned, without access to Lum. It also falls victim to the many stray Ice moves running around atm, and is weak to the Fairy spam. As well as numerous other things keeping it from being broken, but it'll still find a spot up beside its base form in A+ imo. Its like SD and ScarfChomp combined.
Oh, and if you go Dragon Claw > Outrage it struggles with both Unaware users. Unless you are hipster enough to do this:
4 SpA Mega Garchomp Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 288-340 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But yeah I'm super pumped for this one and am just loving the creativity of a viable Weak Armor user.
Swanna + Gale Wings
Could this be the rebirth of bird spam? 87/87 offences don't look the snazziest at first, but when you consider the facts that you are firing off mixed STAB Flying moves backed by 120 and 110 base power and a boosting item. With PRIORITY! Its pretty darn epic. As mentioned that is more attack than Talon, but also as mentioned it is a shame it lacks a physical water STAB. People said it would be good on rain but I just wanna emphasise that this thing would be EPIC on rain! If you opt for a Specs set, this things Hurricane hits just as hard (in fact slightly harder) than Mega Pidgeot's hurricane. And in rain, you ain't missing either.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh and apparently that Pidgeot is Modest vs Timid Swanna, which Swanna doesn't even need cause it has priority. So lets change Swanna to Modest and see what its rain boosted water STAB looks like. After all, you don't need the speed, you have priority and Swift Swimmers behind you.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swanna Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Rain: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'll take that.
Plus Swanna has some great synergy with multiple Swift Swimmers thanks to its flying typing allowing it to take on lots of grass types. So yeah Swanna would be great on rain. Struggles against Sun though ;) (mind you, it can OHKO either drought user after rocks...)
Then of course you have the epic utility of priority Defog, and priority Roost being a nice addition. I do wonder if Swanna could be a dedicated defensive defogger with Priority Feather Dance.
-2 252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 112-134 (31.6 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Switching in is a problem though. Idk, just a thought.
Also Priority Mirror Move may have its uses. Seems fairly niche though.
Gogoat + Thick Fat
There aren't many Grass types that wouldn't appreciate Thick Fat (If any), but Gogoat is a great user. With only 3 weaknesses, some great resistances to types like Ground, Water and Electric, and 123 HP with usable offences, there is a lot to love. Like anyone I am immediately drawn to the Bulk Up set. There aren't many pokemon in this game with good Bulk Up sets. There are plenty of CM users, but I'm struggling to pick a Bulk Up user. Great SpD (when factoring HP), usable attack, great typing (with new ability), and reliable recovery leaves little to be desired. I'm not sure which calcs I feel are most relevant for the bulk up set, but I can assure you that after just one boost it is very hard to break from either side. It does however generally need at least a couple more boosts before it can begin dishing out the pain.
I also wanna make a point that Thick Fat Gogoat is a great Electric check, as you'll generally be invested in SpD because of bulk up.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Thick Fat Gogoat: 132-156 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 7.3% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 149-177 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 108-128 (24 - 28.4%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
That is the most any of those can dish out. Also is you go Careful > Adamant you can check Magnezone and other special attackers quite well too.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 178-210 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Don't ask me why there is sandstorm damage I honestly don't know).
Of course Gogoat also has other options like Leach Seed and such, but Bulk Up is definitely a stand out.
Having a non-mega grass type without weaknesses to Ice and Fire will certainly help in team building for a lot of cases.
These 1st 3 Theorymons add a lot of positives to the meta and are rather unique. I'll try make cores for these 3 as they all have great niches to work with.
Bastiodon + Mono Steel typing + King's Shield
Probably the weakest of the slate. Giving King's Shield to the Shield Pokemon scores 10/10 for flavour, and mono Steel is undeniably better than Rock / Steel. I am curious though. Aren't we not allowed to change a pokemon's primary typing? It doesn't really bother me as we've opened up a few doors lately anyway with double buffs and such. I was just wondering if this was intentional or simply overlooked.
60/168/138 defences hold some pretty solid numbers to say the least. Invest heavily either way and Bastiodon is gonna be able to sponge a lot of hits. Plus if there is one move that has good synergy with taking hits from either side it is Metal Burst. King's Shield is a gods send as it makes the match up extremely hard for physical attackers to win.
Bastiodon's problem is that it is still unable to do anything to anything, other than Metal Burst and Toxic. It doesn't even get Thunder wave to cripple sweepers.
Someone mentioned Toxic Stalling as an option, and at a glance I think this is probably the only option. 52/47/30 offences and speed aren't going anywhere. Leaving Bastiodon stuck with not much more than moves like Metal Burst, King's Shield, Toxic, Taunt, Stealth Rock and Roar. It'll be a reliable SR setter I suppose, especially with Sturdy. But no recovery is still sucking, it doesn't even has Pain Split.
I wonder if utility attacking moves like Body Slam and Bulldoze would be good fillers to stop Bastiodon from being complete Taunt bait.
I don't know. I'm not feeling this one as much. Am I missing something important?
So yeah overall another great slate. Can't wait to start thinking about sets and partners for the 1st 3 I talked about.
EDIT: Mysteria I've revamped the OU Theorymon Metagame thread, as requested by The Immortal.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-challenge-format-on-ps.3541537/#post-6281165
You may wanna link to this in the OP.
Get involved people! Play the meta! :D
Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
Yikes! Like as if Garchomp wasn't already lurking around like "Use a physical attack, I dare you," with its Rock Helmet + Rough Skin set. I for one would be extremely hesitant to risk giving a speed boost to a monster with 170/120 offences, great STABs, coverage, and SD. Also Garchomp's troll speed tier creeps Scarf Landorus-T. Honestly this concept of a viable Weak Armor abuser is seeming very threatening. Definitely a creative way to give Mega Garchomp speed without breaking it. With 108/115 physical bulk though this thing is by no means squishy at -1. It'll take a very high amount of power and speed to kill this thing once it gets going.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 313-369 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 216-255 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With those calcs though, bear in mind that Garchomp would have to have taken some prior damage in order for Weak Armor to kick in. So Talon is basically a guaranteed OHKO, and Scizor/Bisharp may have a chance depending on what kind of physical moves Garchomp is willing to take.
I don't think I need to post many offensive calcs given that I think we can assume STAB Earthquakes and Outrages will hurt coming off of 170 base atk. Also at a possible +2.
Honestly this thing is sounding super cool and I can see bucket loads of epic cores built around this thing. AM already posted one. I'm just picturing that one guy who pairs Mega Garchomp with Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and a Chansey. Making Chansey unbreakable cause the opposition is too afraid to use any physical moves xD.
There are a few things holding Mega Garchomp back of course. It is very vulnerable to being worn down and burned, without access to Lum. It also falls victim to the many stray Ice moves running around atm, and is weak to the Fairy spam. As well as numerous other things keeping it from being broken, but it'll still find a spot up beside its base form in A+ imo. Its like SD and ScarfChomp combined.
Oh, and if you go Dragon Claw > Outrage it struggles with both Unaware users. Unless you are hipster enough to do this:
4 SpA Mega Garchomp Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 288-340 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But yeah I'm super pumped for this one and am just loving the creativity of a viable Weak Armor user.
Swanna + Gale Wings
Could this be the rebirth of bird spam? 87/87 offences don't look the snazziest at first, but when you consider the facts that you are firing off mixed STAB Flying moves backed by 120 and 110 base power and a boosting item. With PRIORITY! Its pretty darn epic. As mentioned that is more attack than Talon, but also as mentioned it is a shame it lacks a physical water STAB. People said it would be good on rain but I just wanna emphasise that this thing would be EPIC on rain! If you opt for a Specs set, this things Hurricane hits just as hard (in fact slightly harder) than Mega Pidgeot's hurricane. And in rain, you ain't missing either.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh and apparently that Pidgeot is Modest vs Timid Swanna, which Swanna doesn't even need cause it has priority. So lets change Swanna to Modest and see what its rain boosted water STAB looks like. After all, you don't need the speed, you have priority and Swift Swimmers behind you.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swanna Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Rain: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'll take that.
Plus Swanna has some great synergy with multiple Swift Swimmers thanks to its flying typing allowing it to take on lots of grass types. So yeah Swanna would be great on rain. Struggles against Sun though ;) (mind you, it can OHKO either drought user after rocks...)
Then of course you have the epic utility of priority Defog, and priority Roost being a nice addition. I do wonder if Swanna could be a dedicated defensive defogger with Priority Feather Dance.
-2 252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 112-134 (31.6 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Switching in is a problem though. Idk, just a thought.
Also Priority Mirror Move may have its uses. Seems fairly niche though.
Gogoat + Thick Fat
There aren't many Grass types that wouldn't appreciate Thick Fat (If any), but Gogoat is a great user. With only 3 weaknesses, some great resistances to types like Ground, Water and Electric, and 123 HP with usable offences, there is a lot to love. Like anyone I am immediately drawn to the Bulk Up set. There aren't many pokemon in this game with good Bulk Up sets. There are plenty of CM users, but I'm struggling to pick a Bulk Up user. Great SpD (when factoring HP), usable attack, great typing (with new ability), and reliable recovery leaves little to be desired. I'm not sure which calcs I feel are most relevant for the bulk up set, but I can assure you that after just one boost it is very hard to break from either side. It does however generally need at least a couple more boosts before it can begin dishing out the pain.
I also wanna make a point that Thick Fat Gogoat is a great Electric check, as you'll generally be invested in SpD because of bulk up.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Thick Fat Gogoat: 132-156 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 7.3% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 149-177 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 108-128 (24 - 28.4%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
That is the most any of those can dish out. Also is you go Careful > Adamant you can check Magnezone and other special attackers quite well too.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 178-210 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Don't ask me why there is sandstorm damage I honestly don't know).
Of course Gogoat also has other options like Leach Seed and such, but Bulk Up is definitely a stand out.
Having a non-mega grass type without weaknesses to Ice and Fire will certainly help in team building for a lot of cases.
These 1st 3 Theorymons add a lot of positives to the meta and are rather unique. I'll try make cores for these 3 as they all have great niches to work with.
Bastiodon + Mono Steel typing + King's Shield
Probably the weakest of the slate. Giving King's Shield to the Shield Pokemon scores 10/10 for flavour, and mono Steel is undeniably better than Rock / Steel. I am curious though. Aren't we not allowed to change a pokemon's primary typing? It doesn't really bother me as we've opened up a few doors lately anyway with double buffs and such. I was just wondering if this was intentional or simply overlooked.
60/168/138 defences hold some pretty solid numbers to say the least. Invest heavily either way and Bastiodon is gonna be able to sponge a lot of hits. Plus if there is one move that has good synergy with taking hits from either side it is Metal Burst. King's Shield is a gods send as it makes the match up extremely hard for physical attackers to win.
Bastiodon's problem is that it is still unable to do anything to anything, other than Metal Burst and Toxic. It doesn't even get Thunder wave to cripple sweepers.
Someone mentioned Toxic Stalling as an option, and at a glance I think this is probably the only option. 52/47/30 offences and speed aren't going anywhere. Leaving Bastiodon stuck with not much more than moves like Metal Burst, King's Shield, Toxic, Taunt, Stealth Rock and Roar. It'll be a reliable SR setter I suppose, especially with Sturdy. But no recovery is still sucking, it doesn't even has Pain Split.
I wonder if utility attacking moves like Body Slam and Bulldoze would be good fillers to stop Bastiodon from being complete Taunt bait.
I don't know. I'm not feeling this one as much. Am I missing something important?
So yeah overall another great slate. Can't wait to start thinking about sets and partners for the 1st 3 I talked about.
EDIT: Mysteria I've revamped the OU Theorymon Metagame thread, as requested by The Immortal.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-challenge-format-on-ps.3541537/#post-6281165
You may wanna link to this in the OP.
Get involved people! Play the meta! :D
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Congrats to all the winners for making it into OU Theorymon!
Now, onto the slate:
Garchomp + Weak Armor: oh boy is this gonna be hard to stop once it gets a boost. I mean, if it's fully invested in Speed with a Jolly nature (it already has a great Atk stat backed up by SD), it reaches a nice benchmark of 466 Speed, outspeeding everything up to boosted Volcarona and Scarfed Landorus-T. It's really great and all, but my main concern with it is that base Garchomp, before MegaEvolving, will have a hard time switching into certain moves as its efficiency will be greatly reduced due to the fact that M-Garchomp will be easier to KO before it gets any boost. Also, let us remind that Weak Armor will only activate if it's hit by physical moves, so it's still prone to Ice Beam/HP Ice shenanigans (not to mention Moonblast, Pixilated Hyper voice and Draco Meteor). But once it does get a boost, only some priority and even faster mons will be able to get past it (Mamoswine, Weavile (Moxie says hi), Bisharp, Scizor, Scarf Keldeo and Scarf Terrakion after some prior damage, MegaPert and Kingdra in the rain, Scarf Hydreigon, ScarfChomp (if that's even a thing now), Scarf Latios come to mind). In overall, it'll be a monster to face and a very hard one to stop once Weak Armor is activated, maybe even too hard to stop, or maybe not, we'll see.
Swanna + Gale Wings: RIP to the birdspam RIP. In all seriousness, it hits even harder than Talonflame, is just a bit less bulkier than it and has access to newfound priority moves in Roost, Tailwind, Feather Dance and DEFOG!!! I'm not sure if it's good or not, but while writing this, I got an idea for a set that would be absolute hell for physical attackers and would offer great utility with priority Defog:
Swanna @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Feather Dance
- Scald
Basically, come in on physical attackers, Feather Dance before it can do anything, Roost off the damage and fish for burns with Scald (and, of course, Defog if necessary). It can even directly switch into strong/powerful physical attackers if SR are not up:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 90-106 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 165-195 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 84-99 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 187-220 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 78-94 (22 - 26.5%) -- 12% chance to 4HKO
-2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 82-97 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 68.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 193-228 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 97-115 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Anyway, if you're not using this kind of set, an offensive mixed set with Brave Bird / Hurricane / Scald / filler could be fun to use with LO or Specs in the rain or not. In overall, it's quite an interesting nomination that would make birdspam viable once more (and now with Braviary around, it's probably already the case).
Gogoatsimulator + Thick Fat: having two of its weaknesses becoming neutralities is very good for Gogoat and makes its Bulk Up set shine more than ever. However, there's still lots of crippling flaws with it: its poor Speed stat (base 68, which makes 172 if uninvested) leaves it outsped by countless threats, be it defensive or offensive, and its horrid Defense stat (base 62, which makes 160 if uninvested) can easily be taken advantage of before it sets any Bulk Up. Furthermore, it becomes total dead weight if it becomes burned or badly poisoned, which can be easily done with the right circumstances. If we look at another defensive Grass-type with Thick Fat, namely Mega Venusaur, we can see that it's not as slow, permitting to outspeed certain mons Gogoat can't, it's naturally quite bulky on both sides, meaning it's a lot harder to take advantage of, and it's not as prone of being statused since it can't be poisoned. The only upside for Gogoat when we compare it to M-Venu is that it doesn't take a Mega slot. Don't get me wrong, it's a good nomination, but it won't get my vote.
Bastiodon + Mono Steel typing + King's Shield: well, what do we have here? The lamest fossil mon of them all comes back to life with a brand new weapon from the afterlife: King's Shield. It would be the ultimate support move for Bastiodon as it's already great mixed bulk would be almost impenetrable with a King's Shield drop or two. However, some mons like Bisharp or Excadrill are still able to set up in its face or hit it with powerful Earthquakes respectively (Excadrill can also set SDs) without having their Atk stat drop. Its lack of reliable recovery is another crippling downside for a defensive mon. Nevertheless, Bastiodon has a couple of other tools to help it out screw over physical mons and generally support its teammates like Stealth Rock, Toxic, Magic Coat, Taunt, Block, Metal Burst and a lot more. I'm not sure if it would be great addition to the metagame or not, but it surely is one interesting nomination to say the least.
For now, I'd be tempted to vote for Gale Wings Swanna, but I might reconsider.
As always, you've done an excellent job for this wonderful slate, coucil members! Ü
Now, onto the slate:
Garchomp + Weak Armor: oh boy is this gonna be hard to stop once it gets a boost. I mean, if it's fully invested in Speed with a Jolly nature (it already has a great Atk stat backed up by SD), it reaches a nice benchmark of 466 Speed, outspeeding everything up to boosted Volcarona and Scarfed Landorus-T. It's really great and all, but my main concern with it is that base Garchomp, before MegaEvolving, will have a hard time switching into certain moves as its efficiency will be greatly reduced due to the fact that M-Garchomp will be easier to KO before it gets any boost. Also, let us remind that Weak Armor will only activate if it's hit by physical moves, so it's still prone to Ice Beam/HP Ice shenanigans (not to mention Moonblast, Pixilated Hyper voice and Draco Meteor). But once it does get a boost, only some priority and even faster mons will be able to get past it (Mamoswine, Weavile (Moxie says hi), Bisharp, Scizor, Scarf Keldeo and Scarf Terrakion after some prior damage, MegaPert and Kingdra in the rain, Scarf Hydreigon, ScarfChomp (if that's even a thing now), Scarf Latios come to mind). In overall, it'll be a monster to face and a very hard one to stop once Weak Armor is activated, maybe even too hard to stop, or maybe not, we'll see.
Swanna + Gale Wings: RIP to the birdspam RIP. In all seriousness, it hits even harder than Talonflame, is just a bit less bulkier than it and has access to newfound priority moves in Roost, Tailwind, Feather Dance and DEFOG!!! I'm not sure if it's good or not, but while writing this, I got an idea for a set that would be absolute hell for physical attackers and would offer great utility with priority Defog:
Swanna @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Feather Dance
- Scald
Basically, come in on physical attackers, Feather Dance before it can do anything, Roost off the damage and fish for burns with Scald (and, of course, Defog if necessary). It can even directly switch into strong/powerful physical attackers if SR are not up:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 90-106 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 165-195 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 84-99 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 187-220 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 78-94 (22 - 26.5%) -- 12% chance to 4HKO
-2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 82-97 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 68.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 193-228 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 97-115 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Anyway, if you're not using this kind of set, an offensive mixed set with Brave Bird / Hurricane / Scald / filler could be fun to use with LO or Specs in the rain or not. In overall, it's quite an interesting nomination that would make birdspam viable once more (and now with Braviary around, it's probably already the case).
Gogoat
Bastiodon + Mono Steel typing + King's Shield: well, what do we have here? The lamest fossil mon of them all comes back to life with a brand new weapon from the afterlife: King's Shield. It would be the ultimate support move for Bastiodon as it's already great mixed bulk would be almost impenetrable with a King's Shield drop or two. However, some mons like Bisharp or Excadrill are still able to set up in its face or hit it with powerful Earthquakes respectively (Excadrill can also set SDs) without having their Atk stat drop. Its lack of reliable recovery is another crippling downside for a defensive mon. Nevertheless, Bastiodon has a couple of other tools to help it out screw over physical mons and generally support its teammates like Stealth Rock, Toxic, Magic Coat, Taunt, Block, Metal Burst and a lot more. I'm not sure if it would be great addition to the metagame or not, but it surely is one interesting nomination to say the least.
For now, I'd be tempted to vote for Gale Wings Swanna, but I might reconsider.
As always, you've done an excellent job for this wonderful slate, coucil members! Ü
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Honestly the best Swanna set would probably just be its standard set in PU, which is:
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
I don't really see the point of Brave Bird because it does not really beat anything that Hurricane does not as far as I know and just gets you walled by bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Alomomola. Scald is Scald, Roost to consistently Defog Stealth Rock away and not die to Life Orb recoil and Defog because priority hazard removal!!! Hidden Power Grass is also an option for Rotom-W I guess, but the moment that thing gets burned you know it will faint eventually. Same with Hidden Power Fighting / Ground / Electric for Empoleon. Also Solar Beam Heatran would be a nice partner to lure Rotom-W. :]
Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor sounds broken lol. Mega Garchomp is almost impossible to wall, and even the possibility of a Speed boost is probably too much because it needs just one stray U-turn, Fake Out, Knock Off, etc to win vs offense without Ice Shard and stall obviously doesn't like it either.
Bastiodon still wouldn't even be good, way too passive and still loses to literally everything that does more damage than Bastiodon can recover with Leftovers.
Thick Fat Gogoat sounds nice, would probably make it viable at least. Bulk Up would be the first choice for a set but is really lacking in coverage, so things like 3 attacks + Milk Drink would most likely be good as well.
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
I don't really see the point of Brave Bird because it does not really beat anything that Hurricane does not as far as I know and just gets you walled by bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Alomomola. Scald is Scald, Roost to consistently Defog Stealth Rock away and not die to Life Orb recoil and Defog because priority hazard removal!!! Hidden Power Grass is also an option for Rotom-W I guess, but the moment that thing gets burned you know it will faint eventually. Same with Hidden Power Fighting / Ground / Electric for Empoleon. Also Solar Beam Heatran would be a nice partner to lure Rotom-W. :]
Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor sounds broken lol. Mega Garchomp is almost impossible to wall, and even the possibility of a Speed boost is probably too much because it needs just one stray U-turn, Fake Out, Knock Off, etc to win vs offense without Ice Shard and stall obviously doesn't like it either.
Bastiodon still wouldn't even be good, way too passive and still loses to literally everything that does more damage than Bastiodon can recover with Leftovers.
Thick Fat Gogoat sounds nice, would probably make it viable at least. Bulk Up would be the first choice for a set but is really lacking in coverage, so things like 3 attacks + Milk Drink would most likely be good as well.
I do believe we Theorymon for the OU metagame, not the OM one. As such, Entei and Braviary are completely irrelevant in this regard. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I've just checked the OP and I didn't see any mention of it (I might have missed it though), but since Sun King liked your comment, that means you're probably right. The post is now consequently edited.
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Right, I suggested the FAT Goat God, so I'm gonna explain what this change would do to increase its viability in OU. Please bear in mind that this wouldn't make it into a S-Rank beast, but it would make it viable in OU.
So what does Thick Fat give the grass goat? For one, it makes it a non-mega grass type that just isn't bothered by fire/ice coverage. Manaphy wrecking your day? Goat sees to it:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Thick Fat Gogoat: 186-220 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even after a tail glow. It's base 123/62/81 Defenses give it the Sp.Def of a god, while it's movepool includes Bulk Up and reliable recovery in the shape of Milk Drink. SnowCristal! has displayed how annoying it can be to take down in its current form, while Thick Fat would leave it being wrecked by birds and status but doing some serious damage in OU.
Other 'mons it can seriously damage include Heatran, Raikou, it sets up on special Altaria, Diancie, and Thundurus. Gliscor can't touch it without Ice Fang, and Serperior struggles to hurt it, and loses if it's life orb.
It can be a specially defensive tank, or a specially defensive set up sweeper once status is gone. With Thick Fat, it can tank a hit from Mega Char Y and kill it with Rock Slide;
4+ Atk Gogoat Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 292-344 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Or it can Bulk Up and slowly wreck.
Unboosted, its power sucks, but eventually it gets powerful, seriously bulky, and with Milk Drink+Lefties+Horn Leech, it's really hard to kill.
I reckon it would end up being pretty one-dimensional, but maybe having a surprise AV set. The bulk-up set is what will make it viable though - with EQ as coverage it absolutely hates status and Talonflame, but can do damage.
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Now on to the rest of the slate (it looks like I'm losing my 100% suggestion slate/win record :[)
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Weak Armor Mega Chomp
What a beast. This would scare the pants of OU, as the very threat of it would make people wary of using contact moves. It hits pretty damn hard off the bat, with high mixed stats and high BP moves, as well as excellent coverage. As other people have already mentioned, it's not THAT bothered about the -1 defenses, as it has enough speed and power to obliterate most things brought in before it can be revenged. SD Chomp is definitely going to be a threat, but AoA can do just as well, taking better advantage of cautious play to wreck houses.
Basically, Volt-turn teams meet your nemesis.
Bastiodon + Real typing and Move
I'm not sure if the typing buff helps it enough to get into OU - it's REALLY passive. I can see it used on Stall teams to get a free turn's status damage, while also having the benefit of scouting and reducing attack. I don't normally do this, but I think a better buff would have been pain split instead of the typing change - Physical fighting moves are generally contact, and EQ can be scouted and taken advantage of. The only non-contact physical move it's getting hit by anyway is EQ. I'm really sorry to who suggested it, but outside of toxic-stalling, I'm not sure what shield beast does back :[
Swanna + Gale Wings
Beast. I love this so much - Talon has shown the usefulness of this ability for flying types, and with Gyarados' excellent typing, Swanna substitutes a slight lack of bulk (and a huge drop in speed) and a vulnerablility to Will-o-Wisp for slightly more attack and a better typing. A roosting Swanna isn't weak to random EQs, its neutral to Scarf tar's stone edge, and ain't gonna care about getting wet. This could fit on so many playstyles, just due to the convenience of priority defog - pair it with something that can manhandle Bisharp, and hey presto! Definitely getting my vote.
So what does Thick Fat give the grass goat? For one, it makes it a non-mega grass type that just isn't bothered by fire/ice coverage. Manaphy wrecking your day? Goat sees to it:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Thick Fat Gogoat: 186-220 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even after a tail glow. It's base 123/62/81 Defenses give it the Sp.Def of a god, while it's movepool includes Bulk Up and reliable recovery in the shape of Milk Drink. SnowCristal! has displayed how annoying it can be to take down in its current form, while Thick Fat would leave it being wrecked by birds and status but doing some serious damage in OU.
Other 'mons it can seriously damage include Heatran, Raikou, it sets up on special Altaria, Diancie, and Thundurus. Gliscor can't touch it without Ice Fang, and Serperior struggles to hurt it, and loses if it's life orb.
It can be a specially defensive tank, or a specially defensive set up sweeper once status is gone. With Thick Fat, it can tank a hit from Mega Char Y and kill it with Rock Slide;
4+ Atk Gogoat Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 292-344 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Or it can Bulk Up and slowly wreck.
Unboosted, its power sucks, but eventually it gets powerful, seriously bulky, and with Milk Drink+Lefties+Horn Leech, it's really hard to kill.
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 204-241 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 250-294 (55.5 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
After a bulk up:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 168-199 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 250-294 (55.5 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
After a bulk up:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 168-199 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I reckon it would end up being pretty one-dimensional, but maybe having a surprise AV set. The bulk-up set is what will make it viable though - with EQ as coverage it absolutely hates status and Talonflame, but can do damage.
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Now on to the rest of the slate (it looks like I'm losing my 100% suggestion slate/win record :[)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Weak Armor Mega Chomp
What a beast. This would scare the pants of OU, as the very threat of it would make people wary of using contact moves. It hits pretty damn hard off the bat, with high mixed stats and high BP moves, as well as excellent coverage. As other people have already mentioned, it's not THAT bothered about the -1 defenses, as it has enough speed and power to obliterate most things brought in before it can be revenged. SD Chomp is definitely going to be a threat, but AoA can do just as well, taking better advantage of cautious play to wreck houses.
Basically, Volt-turn teams meet your nemesis.
Bastiodon + Real typing and Move
I'm not sure if the typing buff helps it enough to get into OU - it's REALLY passive. I can see it used on Stall teams to get a free turn's status damage, while also having the benefit of scouting and reducing attack. I don't normally do this, but I think a better buff would have been pain split instead of the typing change - Physical fighting moves are generally contact, and EQ can be scouted and taken advantage of. The only non-contact physical move it's getting hit by anyway is EQ. I'm really sorry to who suggested it, but outside of toxic-stalling, I'm not sure what shield beast does back :[
Swanna + Gale Wings
Beast. I love this so much - Talon has shown the usefulness of this ability for flying types, and with Gyarados' excellent typing, Swanna substitutes a slight lack of bulk (and a huge drop in speed) and a vulnerablility to Will-o-Wisp for slightly more attack and a better typing. A roosting Swanna isn't weak to random EQs, its neutral to Scarf tar's stone edge, and ain't gonna care about getting wet. This could fit on so many playstyles, just due to the convenience of priority defog - pair it with something that can manhandle Bisharp, and hey presto! Definitely getting my vote.
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Garchomp + Weak Armor: Unfortunately im not familiar with any of the weak armor users(except battle factory) so idk how it plays. Late game sweeper maybe? Thing is tho, as it might have been pointed out in every post above mine, that one must be wary of contact moves around chomp now. Rough Skin(+probable Rocky Helmet) is a nice chunk, and Weak Armor is very deadly as imany have lamented over it's Speed. idk if it changes that much cos it's becoming faster wile becoming weak to priority. I think keldeo or banded azu would pair well with it to take on Weavile. Prolly will use same sets as now.
Swanna + Gale Wings: INTERESTING! Cool mon imo, sweet memories collecting wings on the bridge *.* Brave Bird | Waterfall | Roost | Natural Gift @ Watmel Berry/ Cheri Berry seems a nice set to me. Hippo or HP Fire Lati are cool defoggers to pair with. Not being quad-weak to rocks means it doesn't necessitate rock removal tho(you dont necessarily care about rocks when you choose thundy), which is something it has over Talon, but Fire STAB is nice as well, as well as WoW and Taunt are also niche so it certainly doesnt outclass Talon.
Gogoat + Thick Fat: Sub-Bulk up? will have to read a lot more about this one. Does have decent bulk, Milk Drink has more pp than synthesis and is not altered by weather. iirc it has an okay-ish movepool, but still i cant think much about this one.
Bastiodon + Mono Steel + King's Shield: This is a randbats nightmare-to face and to have. Tho it's fat af, it's just sooooooo damn passive that by the time it does anything recreant would've changed 23523523 avys. Metal Burst/Rock Blast/Iron Head/Toxic are its only way to be somewhat offensive(annoying?). Bronzong still looks more appealing with Levitate/Trick Room/Boom and screens if you're feeling real. King's Shield is obviously protect, but now no longer quad-weak to fighting, you'd be a fool to try to hit it on the physical side anyway so idk if King's Shield helps much. Except maybe against Lando when you dont know if it's gonna U-Turn or EQ, then it's a great asset, but still overall a non-factor imo. I guess it comes in on alt and clef? still easily worn down and spikes bait so meh. And lol King's Shield is not broke.
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