You gotta remember that Tornadus will be focusing on Sp.Attack and Speed normally. And Hammer Arm is UnSTAB'ed, and not exactly the strongest fighting move out there. Most Steels also have VERY high defense.Um, what? Tornadus can't spam Hurricane? Maybe you're forgetting that it has Prankster Rain Dance, making it one of the best Offensive Rain Dance set-up Pokemon. With shit like Vulpix gone, with Tyranitar and co. up in OU, the only thing Tornadus is worrying about is Hippopotas and Abomasnow. Hippopotas can't deal with shit like Rain Dance Mixed Kingdra, so Abomasnow is really the biggest threat to it.
Besides, I think that LO Tornadus has always been superior to Specs, especially in UU where it doesn't need to try and break through shit like 252/252 Ferrothorn. What are the Steel-types in UU? We've got Registeel (lol Taunt + Hammer Arm), Empoleon (Hammer Arm out the ass), Escavalier (neutral to Hurricane, might 2/3HKO, haven't run calcs), Bisharp (Hammer Arm), Magneton (lolhammers), Steelix (dem arms), Aggron (Hammer time), Cobalion (hammered). So, really, what's stopping Tornadus from throwing a big Hurricane party?
Let's assume that, for once, I didn't fuck up the calcs on a Gen V Pokemon. Taking that into account, a set of 40 Atk | 220 SpA | 252 Spe Tornadus with the moveset Rain Dance | Hurricane | Taunt | Hammer Arm does 42.3% - 50% to the standard Gen IV UU Tank Registeel. The retaliatory Iron Head that you mentioned does 31.1% - 36.5%. So, on average, you're going to be beating Registeel far quicker than it will be beating you, supposing you don't fuck up and Taunt an Iron Head by accident. I happen to like those odds since, with two layers of Spikes down, you can easily get the 2HKO on Registeel with two Hammer Arms, switch out to get rid of the -2 Speed, and come back later to wreck shit with STAB LO Hurricane.Although I can't say much about tornadus, I do know that breaking registeel is no easy task for it. Remember, it has higher defences than ferrothorn in the first place. I admit it has shittier attack, but iron head will still do a big chunk.
Very, but I'm betting that it'll get banned. Christ, we couldn't even handle Kyurem in UU without everyone shitting their pants, you think Latias is going to have a shot at staying?Does anyone else is worried that Latias is in the 3.6 mark?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3448775Can someone show me where the hell it says that Drought is banned? O.o
The standard Mixed/Wallbreaking Tornadus set from UU runs the EVs that I listed above, 40 Atk | 220 SpA | 252 Spe. Already mentioned all the points I had to say about Registeel above. Aggron can't switch in for dick, has to have the field cleared of entry hazards just to keep Sturdy active. Basically, it's a one time check, and even then, it isn't reliable. As for Azumarill, I obviously wouldn't be leaving Tornadus in on it knowing that every Azumarill carries Aqua Jet. Switch out to Kingdra (the other big hitter in Gen V UU for Rain) or Ludicolo, absorb that Aqua Jet, rampage for a few turns, set Rain back up later. Foresight + Rapid Spin Hitmontop fixes SR issues, and if LO is such a hindrance, run Expert Belt or something. Hell, even Damp Rock might not be such a bad idea, to increase Rain turns.You gotta remember that Tornadus will be focusing on Sp.Attack and Speed normally. And Hammer Arm is UnSTAB'ed, and not exactly the strongest fighting move out there. Most Steels also have VERY high defense.
Basically, none of those steels except the quad weak ones will be OHKO'ed.
And Aggron has Sturdy.
Azumarill also exists in UU, and a Rain-boosted Aqua Jet is a clean OHKO.
Hammer Arm lowers Tornadus's speed, meaning it must switch out, letting SR piles up with more Life Orb, or be revenged. It's also less than perfect accuracy.
As much as I love Rain, the fact that there's no Politoed severely hinders Tornadus's sweep, especially since it will probably being the one setting up rain, forcing it to hold Damp Rock. And while 125 sp. atk is great, you're kidding yourself if you think you'll be able to take out tanks like Registeel, Gastrodon, or Chansey, or OHKO even some pokes that aren't heavily defensive, so what do you mean it kills the whole metagame?. Yes, in those 8 turns you will be able to bash a few skulls, but then another rain abuser (such as Azumarill or a Swift Swimmer) can come in and ruin your fun. Scarfed pokes as well can come in and do serious damage. While Rain is still great, it's not going to dominate that heavily.With Tornadus down here, rain will dominate. Tornadus with Rain Dance, HP Water, Hurricane, and anything (Water+Flying is only resisted by Lanturn and Empoleon, so I guess Grass Knot) literally kills the whole metagame. In addition, there are powerful swift swimmers (we're looking at you, Kingdra), priority abusers (Azumarill), sweepers (Speed Boost Sharpedo), Electric abusers (Zapdos and Jolteon), and unkillable pokemon (Escavalier won't die in the rain). Rain. Will. Kill. UU.
inb4 Rain gets banned from UU too. Apparently, we're all taking on a very strong "fuck weather" approach. I'm just waiting for all weather to be banned from all tiers but Uber, so we can essentially play Gen I with held items, abilities, and more Pokemon.With Tornadus down here, rain will dominate. Tornadus with Rain Dance, HP Water, Hurricane, and anything (Water+Flying is only resisted by Lanturn and Empoleon, so I guess Grass Knot) literally kills the whole metagame. In addition, there are powerful swift swimmers (we're looking at you, Kingdra), priority abusers (Azumarill), sweepers (Speed Boost Sharpedo), Electric abusers (Zapdos and Jolteon), and unkillable pokemon (Escavalier won't die in the rain). Rain. Will. Kill. UU.
Weather is disproportionately strong compared to every other strategy, massively centralizes the metagame, and creates support conditions that essentially turn the game into rock-paper-scissors. Why are you surprised it's getting so much attention from a balance perspective?inb4 Rain gets banned from UU too. Apparently, we're all taking on a very strong "fuck weather" approach. I'm just waiting for all weather to be banned from all tiers but Uber, so we can essentially play Gen I with held items, abilities, and more Pokemon.
Not massively surprised, really. If there's any surprise, it's probably leftover from when people were claiming that Gen IV Rain was broken in UU. I just think that we're jumping a bit too quick from ban to ban to ban. Just my opinion.Weather is disproportionately strong compared to every other strategy, massively centralizes the metagame, and creates support conditions that essentially turn the game into rock-paper-scissors. Why are you surprised it's getting so much attention from a balance perspective?
Well, if you're running Tornadus with max Speed and they're running Tornadus with max Speed then it comes down to a Speed-tie. And, considering that other Rain Dance Pokemon like Kingdra and Ludicolo beat Tornadus pretty handily (Hurricane isn't a OHKO on Ludicolo, IIRC), then it isn't that difficult to beat opposing Tornadus.Probably a glitch
And btw, Tornadus can counter rain teams too. Try setting up rain with priority taunt in your face.
But Tornadus is a terrible lead for RD, wasn't it? At least, that was the impression I got when I was looking through the thread.Well, if you're running Tornadus with max Speed and they're running Tornadus with max Speed then it comes down to a Speed-tie. And, considering that other Rain Dance Pokemon like Kingdra and Ludicolo beat Tornadus pretty handily (Hurricane isn't a OHKO on Ludicolo, IIRC), then it isn't that difficult to beat opposing Tornadus.
I'm dying for UU to be updated with Tornadus.
It got the boot, and so it dropped to UU again in terms of stats. Confusing, yes. I am confused, too.Straying from the rain topic for a moment, Blaziken is ranked at 214. I thought Blaziken got the boot to ubers?