Finals World Cup of Pokemon XI - Finals [Won by Team USA East]

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Hence: if they go to private channels and it's found out they get perma banned
I kind of like this idea because some of the complaints I've heard are that they were just discussing the game or w/e and that it shouldn't count as ghosting. However with a mod in the chat, there will be greater clarity as to what can or can not be said. If the players decide to make a separate chat without the mod and ghost there, then it shows a clear disregard for the rules which can be dealt with much more harshly than other cases, e.g. a permanent ban as you mentioned.
 

passion

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wht is this uninspired meme? is this what you are up to nowadays? is this what you consider QUALITY memeing? i remember back in 2007 when i was just a young meme upstart you were truly an inspiration to me, you were able to take smogon related CONTENT/drama and make it vry wacky with tactfully written paragraphs and skillful photoshop use. nowadays all im seein are random meme pics and one liners. what happened to the REAL tokyo tom? (i miss the old tokyo tom . . .) are u evn still from tokyo or are u now middle america tom? this drop in quality is disgusting. even in 2015 u were still runnin the game. i haven't seen a drop like this since lil WEEZY baby got 2 the year of 2010. do u evn love memes anymore?! have u been running the game for so long that u got lazy and just expect the likes 2 role in because of ur massive fanbase? when i opened this thread expecting 2 see another classic tokyo tom post and saw this picture i cried. i am not mad just disappointed. plz dm me on twitter mayb we can work something out.
 
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Vinc2612

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There's really only one way to ensure that this sticks: require any and all irc chats or skype convos to have a TD presence and permanently ban any offenders who contravene that dictate in addition to regular ghosting.
Except that we are also competitors... So either we give all the task to a single TD (the SPL host since he is not playing, yay, he'll be glad to have ten team chats to look upon all the time :D), or we separate it between TDs but it means you'll face the TD in your chatroom at some point in the tournament.
If we talk about wcop, it's even worse, since the host is playing and you'll face every TD at round 1, so not even possible to rotate us.

Even if I'd trust my fellow TDs to not use that kind of informations for the game, I can't ask you the same level of trust, since the past has shown that molemen sometimes go for their own advantage.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Then someone on the TD team has to make the sacrifice not to play and to take on that responsibility. Or have a proxy user do that (I.e. DJD) who isn't involved in competitive mons. Funny enough a recently resigned TD would have been a perfect fit for that position.

The point is that the TDs are not regular users, they volunteered to lead the tournament community. That means that they are the ones who must make the hard choices when dealing with major matters like this and they are the ones who must make necessary sacrifices should it be required.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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I'm sorry for not responding to things that don't matter?

It doesn't really matter if players create another skype group. If people want to cheat they will find a way to do so. However. The TDs will have said "this is the way you should be communicating. These are the approved methods. Only channels where TDs are present can be used to discuss team matters." If you make another skype, if you make another discord, if you whatever then you've shown that you don't care about the rules and that you will cheat no matter what.

If you get hacked. If you slip up. If someone snakes on you. You get permabanned. No second chances.
 

Bughouse

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Well, I think it would be pretty suspicious if no chatting (or substantially less chatting than usual) is happening in the "official" channel all of a sudden.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution and idk if I agree with it, but don't act like it's completely useless.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Precisely, moreover it gives the TDs leeway over specific cases where someone, as Jayde says, just blurts out a move and the TDs can say "hey, that fits our definition of ghosting, don't do it again" and can then give warnings or whatever for future cases. Or if someone is legit ghosting in front of them, come down hard. But the standard is in place that if you do team talk outside of your approved chat, you're permabanned.
 
Seriously why is this thread still open ? That's more or less total garbage, and that gives a poor image of the community to newcomers.
If you really want to talk about ghosting, please go into the Inside Scoop, just let TDs decide or something like that :(
It gives an ACCURATE image to them, to be fair. Ghosting has been an issue for as long as serious e-peen worthy Pokémon tournaments have been around. And remember: you only ever catch the stupid ones who do it.

Oh, and the ones who get hacked too, now.


There's really only one way to ensure that this sticks: require any and all irc chats or skype convos to have a TD presence and permanently ban any offenders who contravene that dictate in addition to regular ghosting.
How do you even plan to make TDs know about all communication means a player uses? Players could call or use any messaging app they want on their phone, for instance. Hell, on something like WCoP, they might even live close by and do some real life ghosting. Should we install cameras on every single player's houses and watch them while they play too? Seems reasonable!
 

Josh

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It gives an ACCURATE image to them, to be fair. Ghosting has been an issue for as long as serious e-peen worthy Pokémon tournaments have been around. And remember: you only ever catch the stupid ones who do it.

Oh, and the ones who get hacked too, now.




How do you even plan to make TDs know about all communication means a player uses? Players could call or use any messaging app they want on their phone, for instance. Hell, on something like WCoP, they might even live close by and do some real life ghosting. Should we install cameras on every single player's houses and watch them while they play too? Seems reasonable!
He's already addressed that. Your shitty sarcasm is not helping anything.
I'm sorry for not responding to things that don't matter?

It doesn't really matter if players create another skype group. If people want to cheat they will find a way to do so. However. The TDs will have said "this is the way you should be communicating. These are the approved methods. Only channels where TDs are present can be used to discuss team matters." If you make another skype, if you make another discord, if you whatever then you've shown that you don't care about the rules and that you will cheat no matter what.

If you get hacked. If you slip up. If someone snakes on you. You get permabanned. No second chances.
Precisely, moreover it gives the TDs leeway over specific cases where someone, as Jayde says, just blurts out a move and the TDs can say "hey, that fits our definition of ghosting, don't do it again" and can then give warnings or whatever for future cases. Or if someone is legit ghosting in front of them, come down hard. But the standard is in place that if you do team talk outside of your approved chat, you're permabanned.
"People are always going to be able to ghost if they want to", while true, is a horrible argument. Just because we can't stop ghosting completely doesn't mean we can't make it more difficult.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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How do you even plan to make TDs know about all communication means a player uses? Players could call or use any messaging app they want on their phone, for instance. Hell, on something like WCoP, they might even live close by and do some real life ghosting. Should we install cameras on every single player's houses and watch them while they play too? Seems reasonable!
The point is never to make it impossible to ghost, that's obviously not feasible. The point is that if you do ghost and you're found out by any means, you get banned from ever competing again.
 

Teclis

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It gives an ACCURATE image to them, to be fair. Ghosting has been an issue for as long as serious e-peen worthy Pokémon tournaments have been around. And remember: you only ever catch the stupid ones who do it.

Oh, and the ones who get hacked too, now.




How do you even plan to make TDs know about all communication means a player uses? Players could call or use any messaging app they want on their phone, for instance. Hell, on something like WCoP, they might even live close by and do some real life ghosting. Should we install cameras on every single player's houses and watch them while they play too? Seems reasonable!
This is a Tournament thread, where we are supposed to support our favorite players, not to critisize them, even if it is needed, and it is definitly not a place where a discussion about ghosting should be host. But if it stays open, you can perhaps show us your ideas instead of flaming the other ones.

(guess i made a thousand of mistakes in my sentence, but you should understand the global idea)
 
How is that any different than just making the current punishment a permaban? You're still relying on the offenders being complete morons to get caught.


He's already addressed that. Your shitty sarcasm is not helping anything.
I'm not being sarcastic. Real life ghosting might just have happened at some point in Smogon history. Who knows? In some countries, most of the playerbase in here is from one or two cities. It's really plausible and leaves no evidence.

Making people create a second chat for it is hardly "making it more difficult". The simple nature of playing Pokémon online gives a huge leeway for this. It's a turn based game and tournament timers are incredibly long (5 minutes to click Stealth Rock, really?)... Also, the very same internet that allows for this also allows talking to other people instantly. It's a no-brainer that it's impossible to stop this. I also honestly think this sucks but such is the game.

Also, going by "playing on the cartridge" standards, aren't a lot of things taken for granted here almost like cheating ?_? You can't pull up a damage calculator mid-game, you can't scroll up logs to see the moves used previously if you forget them, you can't instantly see the PP left or opponent's type if you're stupid and don't know it by head, you can't have Sleep Powder simply "fail" on the second use rather than getting DQ'd... Just add "talking to other people mid-game" to that already sizeable list.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Before people respond to that post, please just link him areas where that discussion has previously taken place instead of derailing the current line of discussion.
 
Imagine if Smogon ran offline events. I could see quite a few good players getting exposed as soon as they dont have friends giving out "tips".
 
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