There is something really wrong with how continental teams work in the Smogon World Cup and this also ties in with the Qualification Format of World Cup as I will elaborte.
At the moment players from nations that have not qualified for the World Cup yet, are able to freely choose wheather to play for their nation or to play for their continent. For example: A player from an established team like Italy would not be able to sign up for Team Europe - this is because it would be unfair to give that player the opportunity to play for 2 teams. However a player from Team Austria can - with the justification that Austria is "not a real team" since they haven't qualified for the main tournament. Team Austria has existed for 5 years tho so that claim is absurd.
This rule is completely unfair for:
Nations who said that they are or have been affected by this are: Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Mexico, Argentinia, Venezuela, China, India, Pakistan and there might be more. Some of the teams mentioned here said that the situation negatively impacted them. From what I have heard, some teams would have been around much earlier if it wasn't for 1 or 2 players not wanting to leave the continental team. Or they have been around but simply got deleted because the team couldn't qualify and 1 or 2 players wanted to have a safe spot next year. The MOST ABSURD thing in fact is that there are currently 3 players who are on Team Europe who have FAILED TO QUALIFY to the tournament with their nation and then decided to GO BACK to play for Team Europe the next year.
And let's not kid ourselves - the players who can choose between Continental and National Team are usually the established key players. Now imagine you prepare for a year with your team and suddenly your two best players simply decide to switch team because they want to have better odds. Or why even try to form a team in the first place if it is just about the growth as an individual and to get accepted on your continental team?
Ofc I am not asking to force players from (for example) Netherlands to form their own team but as i said; as soon as someone signs up as a captain and has enough players, there should be no chance whatsoever for any NL players to be on Team Europe. Imagine if Germany, Italy and France just decided to not form any teams to unite under the banner of Team Europe. Ofc this would not be fair but this is basically what happened on a smaller scale with Team Benelux or am I wrong? And the current rules support this!
The line of reasoning for this was always: "hey its not that deep, its just a game, let people play with their friends" but then with the same argument you should allow teams like Afrabs, Alps, Middle East etc. as well no? If you want to keep your arbitrary group of friends together and play with them do so in SPL, SCL or basically any other tour but not World Cup. Thx. And don't forget: continental teams won't be dead as some will try to claim. This just gives a new opportunity for a fresh collective of European/Asian/Latam players that are not represented to unite under their continental banner.
Disclaimer: I am only posting this out of my own personal opinion. Not all teams quoted have voiced their distaste to the current situation (maybe in fear of creating unnecessary dramas). Which is also why I am making this post -> I don't want other growing teams to split and have beef like how it happened in our team.
I am coming back to my point from before where players who failed to qualify for the WCop have gone back to Team Europe to be able to play the main tournament. Why waste one entire year in prepartation - searching for new players, training them, building etc. just to lose in qualifiers when you could just as easily play the entire tournament by playing for the continental team? To be honest I don't even blame them and that's because the qualifying format is bs:
The slots were always too scarce and don't forget that relegated teams have it much easier to qualify again. They get to pick their seeds and have to play less rounds, they can scout your teams but you can't scout theirs + don't forget that rng also plays a role in mons. Then to face strong teams like last years' champion Champions US South. You could literally dedicate one long year to assamble a really strong team and easily lose in qualifiers because of the bad odds, completely losing your motivation for the next year. Also don't get me wrong - I am not crying about having to qualify or things being unfair but you can see that objectively the current format does not promote growth at all. Why would you even try to make a new team with your nation if the odds for qualifying are that low anyways?
Currently there are 28 teams with as I said 15 teams fighting for 3 slots and a qualifying format that once again favors these relegated teams. With 28 teams (+ NL and maybe even others that are dead because of continental teams) the main round could easily be expanded. There are multiple ways how to do it better and I am looking forward to hear some suggestions.
One thing I want to say for sure is that the Qualifiers should be treated as a main part of the tournament and there should be more relegation slots.
Flexibility:
And this ties in with next point: "We will change something next year." But the thing is: NO YOU WON'T because you always say that but it always depends on the # of teams signed up. Maybe the situation next year will be completely different to the situation now so you need to be more flexibile and that might the most important thing you need to implement.
If the year before there were only 18 teams who wanted to play in WCop but the year after there are 30 teams you obviously need to change the number of relegation slots. I remember in 2018 there were 5 teams playing for 1 slot (with the relegated team only playing 1 round and the 4 new teams having to win 3 rounds to qualify) and they didn't want to change the number of slots because "hey last year they didn't know that they should win games in a tournment so we cant have the 14th and 15th have to fight for another slot" and they used the same shitty excuse again year after year. Well maybe it should be apparent that players should actually try to win their tournament games because the number of relegation slots could be changing for next year??? This goes hand in hand with format btw because next year it will be "last year we had x amount of teams but this year if we change the format we don't even know how many teams would signup for a new format so lets not change it" lmao.
Imagine how Smogon WCop could look like if this was implemented in 2018? We might have had a prospering World Cup with already established Teams as Netherlands, Chile, Venezuela, Argentinia, Belgium etc. much much earlier with those players being much more present in today's community as well. And don't make the same mistake this year because we have so many new teams, this could be the chance for something big. Chile, Venezuela, etc. all exist this year but if the circumstances don't change we might as well see the top players move back to team LA next year.
Question to the TDs: What would be wrong about expanding WCop to 20 slots right now and going with it for this year? I am not trying to push drastic changes like that this fast - I am just asking what speaks against it?
tl;dr: bs rules have artificially made it hard for teams to qualify -> made people stick to continental teams like Europe that gave them a pass -> made teams trying to qualify even weaker / stopped them from forming / made them disband -> made it even harder for new teams -> hearts were broken
Pinging the captians of the teams who are affected by this to give their input if they wish to do so:
Jordy Lets In The Sun Flamita So Noisy Mikaav luisin Chiles Habaneros raf fabwooloo Jaajgko elednb Roseybear Gingy One Last Kiss Lyster Enzonana. ACR1 Amir Alpha Rabbit DeepBlueC Charmflash Oshim MaswoodShaheb Eoward AxCypher Vileman Haru Separation ChickWayne
At the moment players from nations that have not qualified for the World Cup yet, are able to freely choose wheather to play for their nation or to play for their continent. For example: A player from an established team like Italy would not be able to sign up for Team Europe - this is because it would be unfair to give that player the opportunity to play for 2 teams. However a player from Team Austria can - with the justification that Austria is "not a real team" since they haven't qualified for the main tournament. Team Austria has existed for 5 years tho so that claim is absurd.
This rule is completely unfair for:
- new teams trying to qualify as it stops their growth or even worse their creation.
- all other teams in the tournament as certain players from multiple nations can just decide to unite under one banner instead of having to play for their country.
- all players from other nations who can only sign up and play for one team.
Nations who said that they are or have been affected by this are: Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Mexico, Argentinia, Venezuela, China, India, Pakistan and there might be more. Some of the teams mentioned here said that the situation negatively impacted them. From what I have heard, some teams would have been around much earlier if it wasn't for 1 or 2 players not wanting to leave the continental team. Or they have been around but simply got deleted because the team couldn't qualify and 1 or 2 players wanted to have a safe spot next year. The MOST ABSURD thing in fact is that there are currently 3 players who are on Team Europe who have FAILED TO QUALIFY to the tournament with their nation and then decided to GO BACK to play for Team Europe the next year.
And let's not kid ourselves - the players who can choose between Continental and National Team are usually the established key players. Now imagine you prepare for a year with your team and suddenly your two best players simply decide to switch team because they want to have better odds. Or why even try to form a team in the first place if it is just about the growth as an individual and to get accepted on your continental team?
Ofc I am not asking to force players from (for example) Netherlands to form their own team but as i said; as soon as someone signs up as a captain and has enough players, there should be no chance whatsoever for any NL players to be on Team Europe. Imagine if Germany, Italy and France just decided to not form any teams to unite under the banner of Team Europe. Ofc this would not be fair but this is basically what happened on a smaller scale with Team Benelux or am I wrong? And the current rules support this!
The line of reasoning for this was always: "hey its not that deep, its just a game, let people play with their friends" but then with the same argument you should allow teams like Afrabs, Alps, Middle East etc. as well no? If you want to keep your arbitrary group of friends together and play with them do so in SPL, SCL or basically any other tour but not World Cup. Thx. And don't forget: continental teams won't be dead as some will try to claim. This just gives a new opportunity for a fresh collective of European/Asian/Latam players that are not represented to unite under their continental banner.
Disclaimer: I am only posting this out of my own personal opinion. Not all teams quoted have voiced their distaste to the current situation (maybe in fear of creating unnecessary dramas). Which is also why I am making this post -> I don't want other growing teams to split and have beef like how it happened in our team.
Qualifying Format:I am coming back to my point from before where players who failed to qualify for the WCop have gone back to Team Europe to be able to play the main tournament. Why waste one entire year in prepartation - searching for new players, training them, building etc. just to lose in qualifiers when you could just as easily play the entire tournament by playing for the continental team? To be honest I don't even blame them and that's because the qualifying format is bs:
- 2018: 5 teams for 1 slot
- 2020 8 teams for 2 slots
- 2021: 10 teams for 3 slots
- 2022: 15 teams for 3 slots
Currently there are 28 teams with as I said 15 teams fighting for 3 slots and a qualifying format that once again favors these relegated teams. With 28 teams (+ NL and maybe even others that are dead because of continental teams) the main round could easily be expanded. There are multiple ways how to do it better and I am looking forward to hear some suggestions.
One thing I want to say for sure is that the Qualifiers should be treated as a main part of the tournament and there should be more relegation slots.
Flexibility:
And this ties in with next point: "We will change something next year." But the thing is: NO YOU WON'T because you always say that but it always depends on the # of teams signed up. Maybe the situation next year will be completely different to the situation now so you need to be more flexibile and that might the most important thing you need to implement.
If the year before there were only 18 teams who wanted to play in WCop but the year after there are 30 teams you obviously need to change the number of relegation slots. I remember in 2018 there were 5 teams playing for 1 slot (with the relegated team only playing 1 round and the 4 new teams having to win 3 rounds to qualify) and they didn't want to change the number of slots because "hey last year they didn't know that they should win games in a tournment so we cant have the 14th and 15th have to fight for another slot" and they used the same shitty excuse again year after year. Well maybe it should be apparent that players should actually try to win their tournament games because the number of relegation slots could be changing for next year??? This goes hand in hand with format btw because next year it will be "last year we had x amount of teams but this year if we change the format we don't even know how many teams would signup for a new format so lets not change it" lmao.
Imagine how Smogon WCop could look like if this was implemented in 2018? We might have had a prospering World Cup with already established Teams as Netherlands, Chile, Venezuela, Argentinia, Belgium etc. much much earlier with those players being much more present in today's community as well. And don't make the same mistake this year because we have so many new teams, this could be the chance for something big. Chile, Venezuela, etc. all exist this year but if the circumstances don't change we might as well see the top players move back to team LA next year.
Question to the TDs: What would be wrong about expanding WCop to 20 slots right now and going with it for this year? I am not trying to push drastic changes like that this fast - I am just asking what speaks against it?
tl;dr: bs rules have artificially made it hard for teams to qualify -> made people stick to continental teams like Europe that gave them a pass -> made teams trying to qualify even weaker / stopped them from forming / made them disband -> made it even harder for new teams -> hearts were broken
Pinging the captians of the teams who are affected by this to give their input if they wish to do so:
Jordy Lets In The Sun Flamita So Noisy Mikaav luisin Chiles Habaneros raf fabwooloo Jaajgko elednb Roseybear Gingy One Last Kiss Lyster Enzonana. ACR1 Amir Alpha Rabbit DeepBlueC Charmflash Oshim MaswoodShaheb Eoward AxCypher Vileman Haru Separation ChickWayne
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