Is it really necessary to blacklist the banned megas? This is a OU thread after all so naturally we won't discuss something like Mega Mewtwo XY or Mega Gengar.
A lot of things are easily revenge killed. Off the top of my head are Bisharp, Landorus, Landorus T, Non Boosted Megados, Offensive Mega Venusaur, Kyubes, etc. And Chomp only needs sand. Everything else is what should be on a normal team lol.MegaChomp is definitely not deserving of an A. As mentioned, it is very easy to revenge kill, requires quite a bit of team support (i.e. sticky web, fairies, ice resist, etc.), and is just not as good as other Chomp sets.
Again, the speed isnt an issue. You dont see people complaining about Mega Heracrosses base 75 speed or Lando-Ts base 91 speed. Pick a speed tier and outspeed it. You dont need a base 102 speed with his bulk and great offenses.Personally, I've never had to prepare for a Mega Garchomp whilst team building and have not had any problems. Just seems a bit outclassed, mainly for it's lack of speed.
All Kyurem B has over Megachomp is the ability to run an item and more bulk. Everything else is the same. Also chomp doesnt have a SR weakness, not does he cower in the face of steels, as well as a much better movepool and typing. And the ability to 6-0 stall just by switching in and out every once in a while is well worth a mega slot if the team needs it.Mega Garchomp for B. It faces competition from Kyurem-B and it takes up the mega slot.
SR Exca needs sand support. No one complains about that. Having either an A+ or A rank Poke on a team isnt restrictive at all. Idk why people think thats a problem. Also, he still nukes things with Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, which dont require sand support. The one set is all he needs because literally nothing outside of Cresselia and SpDef Gliscor can wall it. Nothing else in OU can boast that. Every other Pokemon has to pick a coverage move to beat what it wants, which is giving up another coverage move that leaves you walled by something else.Not to mention that it only has one set worth using and it needs sand support on top of that.
Again, pick a speed tier and outspeed it. He doesnt need a blazing speed. Mawile has a base speed of 50, Azu as well. Bisharp is base 70. No one complains about that and theyre all top tier threats. Hes a wallbreaker, not a sweeper.The speed tier isnt great and it has no way of boosting its speed to make up for this.
If I dont have a mega slot used and I want a wallbreaker, Id choose Chomp over all those any day. If I want a sweeper Ill choose Gyara or Pinsir. If I want a wall/bulky attacker, Ill choose Venu. It depends on the team.And you're kidding me if you think it belongs in the same rank as Mega Venusar, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Gyarados.
Zard Y dropped like half a month ago because it needs too much support to be considered S Rank. It needs a Pursuit Trapper, possible Hippodown to reset weather, and hazard removal, which is half of your team.I'm still sticking with my original claim that there are better Garchomp sets out there and MegaChomp is not a top-tier sweeper.
Also, I'm nominating Zard Y for S-Rank.
"but m-muh stealth rock"
I think this mega's pros outweigh this one con by far. XY brought reliable hazard removal in the form of Defog which makes Charizard's job a lot easier. In fact, hazard removal is the only support Zard needs (apart from hazards of it's own which any poke would enjoy). I know S-Rank is generally reserved for mons that need basically no support, but the same case could be made for Zard X.
Zard Y has exactly what Zard X has going for it, which is the unpredictability. Of course you can make an educated guess on which Zard your opponent is running, but there is and never will be a 100% foolproof method of determining that. Even after it mega-evolves, there is an additional layer of unpredictability. Can I switch in my Tran or will it be running EQ? Can I switch in Chansey, or does it have Flare Blitz (which can be a 2HKO after rocks)?
This thing can break stall and weather all the while giving sun support for other teammates. The list goes on. In my eyes, there is no reason Zard Y shouldn't be S as long as it's brother is.
Edit: Forgot to mention that he can 2HKO the majority of the meta, so there's that.
Right, just noticed that it was a "conclusion reached" mon on the main thread.Zard Y dropped like half a month ago because it needs too much support to be considered S Rank. It needs a Pursuit Trapper, possible Hippodown to reset weather, and hazard removal, which is half of your team.
He doesn't need sand to be worth it, but his wall breaking potential skyrockets with it. Sand Rush Exca requires this "significant" support, yet you don't see his viability questioned. And having an A+ threat on your team that can do multiple things to support the entire team is in no way a bad thing.Mega Chomp needs sand support to be worth it, which requires you use the support T-Tar set and is considered "significant" support.
No, Kyubes doesn't need weather. What he does need is rocks off the field. Otherwise he's easily worn down by LO recoil for his most common set, and has limited switch in opportunities. And his only way to get past fairies is Iron Head. And steels laugh in his face if he lacks Earth Power (and Scizor does regardless of what moves he runs). I'd say that hazard removal +fairy and steel removal is more support than what Chomp needs, which is only technically sand.Kyurem-B does not need weather and can run more than one set, like (in no particular order) Sub, Scarf, Band, LO 3 Attacks + Roost, or LO 4 Attacks. Kyurem-B doesn't technically need Hazard removal but really appreciates it, but that's the most significant support it requires.
B+, and I'm making a push for A-, which has gotten a bit of support (though it got lost under the whole "offensive pivot" role thing).Also Chomp is B(+ or -?) on the normal Viability thread.
On the Porygon-2 thing:-Clone-
First off, you're wrong. Pokes like P2 will counter Gar-Mega... However, this short list also only exists in sand. Take away sand and suddenly obstacles like AV Slowbro stand in your way.... In fact, AV slowbro will probably stand in your way regardless as the 2hko in sand is not even guaranteed and he has awesome recovery powers.
However, if Chomp really did 6-0 stall in sand, yes we could say it was A rank viability. This isn't true. Stall can still play a checkdown game because chomp has to 2hko. With the rumored "Rise of ZardX" (What a joke, look at WCOP usage for stall), Gliscor is ZardX's most common partner. So... obviously not in chomp's favor.
And finally, you're going to be predicting switches with stall. Running a rash nature, you're losing a decent bit of special defense. You're NOT taking hits that well with uninvested 108/95- and no passive recovery.
Team support, Chomp needs sand. Obviously. One of the sand setters shares chomp's weakness and if you're going to use sand, you'll probably also run Excadrill. To not be a deadweight vs offense, you'll probably also need sticky web support. Even then, latis get by you, zardX on first switch does too. At least two mons of support, one mon that becomes mandatory on any dedicated sand team and a mega spot for one mon? That doesn't sound A rank.
I was referring to things that are threatening but ok. I only said Cresselia cuz it takes a Pokemon with 120 / 120 / 130 defenses to wall him. And the guy above showed that AV Bro dies. He cant switch in.-Clone-
First off, you're wrong. Pokes like P2 will counter Gar-Mega... However, this short list also only exists in sand. Take away sand and suddenly obstacles like AV Slowbro stand in your way.... In fact, AV slowbro will probably stand in your way regardless as the 2hko in sand is not even guaranteed and he has awesome recovery powers.
You misunderstood what I meant. i should have said he has the potential to 6-0 stall as stall has no safe switch in bar SpDef Gliscor, which is beaten by AV Azu or something. Beat that and its gg. The Zard X argument is crap cuz:However, if Chomp really did 6-0 stall in sand, yes we could say it was A rank viability. This isn't true. Stall can still play a checkdown game because chomp has to 2hko. With the rumored "Rise of ZardX" (What a joke, look at WCOP usage for stall), Gliscor is ZardX's most common partner. So... obviously not in chomp's favor.
Stall doesnt use special attacks bar scald, which idk why youd risk staying in on that. And with a wishpasser (which is really fucking good on balance), the recovery is a non issue cuz stall can barely hurt it acctively w/o passive damage.And finally, you're going to be predicting switches with stall. Running a rash nature, you're losing a decent bit of special defense. You're NOT taking hits that well with uninvested 108/95- and no passive recovery.
Sand is all he needs to do his job. Exca is nice but not even needed. And if you think hes deadweight against offense I seriously question the viability of your argument and I doubt youve ever used him. Like stall, he has no safe switch ins, and double switches arent the hardest thing in the world to do if you know what youre doing. And outspeeding things like base 80s is more than enough. Hes also able to take a few hits, including some SE ones. Also Sticky Web is shit. Dont use it.Team support, Chomp needs sand. Obviously. One of the sand setters shares chomp's weakness and if you're going to use sand, you'll probably also run Excadrill. To not be a deadweight vs offense, you'll probably also need sticky web support.
TTar traps the Latis and provides sand. One mon. Two jobs. Not a lot of support. The same cant be said for Zard Y, which is being proposed for S. He needs Hazard control + Pursuit support for the Latis. That takes more support than Megachomp.Even then, latis get by you, zardX on first switch does too. At least two mons of support, one mon that becomes mandatory on any dedicated sand team and a mega spot for one mon? That doesn't sound A rank.