Resource VGC 2018 Viability Rankings

It's B- for me. With Tapus everywhere, every team has poison types to kill it, it has a terrain that's not nice against it and Araquanid and Mega Swampert are better as physical water-types.

Solid B+. She has tons of different tools, can wreak havoc by attacking, by supporting, or by setting TR and then spamming Hyper Voice. Wide Guard was everywhere, but since it's been nerfed again by the patch, it can get back to HV everything. She's not as good as Mega Mence and Mega Kanga, but she's solid.

It's B for me. The fact that regular Gengar lost Levitate makes it harder for it to get free switches. It can still do some damage, and trapping is still good, but I don't feel Mega Gengar is going to be as strong as it was before.

I'd drop it to regular B as well. For me, it's the same level as Politoed, the difference is what kind of role you want your TR setter to have in your team. So either raise Politoed to B+ or leave Pelipper at B with it.

Also B. I've been toying with it a lot, since TR is my favorite playstyle, and it does hit really hard under TR, being a really good sweeper, even more so when it gets the first Beast Boost. But it is rendered useless by Landorus-T, since it really can't do a thing to it, and since almost every team has Lando-T, B+ is a little too high.

Bulu is good in this meta. Leave it at B+, as it is an awesome partner for anything that doesn't like to get Earthquakes to their face. If the 5-minute trainer timer is kept, then it becomes even better for stall teams (yeah, they do exist on this meta), since it'll keep everyone alive for longer.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Rankings Update
Azumarill: B+ -> B
Milotic: B+ -> B
Rotom-W: B+ -> B
Stakataka: B+ -> B

Let's talk about:
It's a big one but it's time to start going through the B rank.

For reference, here's everything in it at the moment:

Same deal as last time; nominate things to rise to/from B or drop from/into B.
 
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B -> B-. Burn nerf, nuff said. And too much competition in teamslot. Lando is arguably even more common than it used to be, and Fini completely fucks it over. Could see it dropping to C+ even but lets be not that harsh (yet).

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B- -> B. Tailwind, hits Tapus hard, has good coverage (fire moves or just general nuke with Draco Meteor), Snarl and things like that. And if it gets boosts it can be really dangerous. And against things that just outspeed it, like Scarf Lando and Lele, It can just use Sash and HP Ice and Sludge Bomb, respectively. It is frail and fairly predictable but considering the cool tools it has, it deserves B, IMO.

B -> B-. Move over, the true Duck is back again so GTFO. Jokes aside, it's offensive capability is lame compared to last year and it is much, much easier to kill as well this year. And unlike Cress it lacks support moves outside from TR. Twave also got nerfed which kinda sucks for it, so it has even less support move options. It got kinda similar changes as Cresselia with transition of 2015 to 2018, in form of being easier to kill with single hit. However, unlike Cresselia, it didn't get the major buff in form of 50% berries...because it cannot use them. I just feel like there are less and less reasons to use this over Cresselia than in past.

B -> B-. Main niche was Draco Meteor nuking, but that got nerfed with Misty Terrain and in general of Fairies being even more common. That being said , I feel like the choice between this and Ludicolo is most of time more obvious. It did gain tools like Z-moves which is kinda cool, though.
 
Vanilla Abomasnow is unranked btw, just pointing it out. No way that Mega Aboma would be better than it when it generally has been considered to be inferior overall to Sash Aboma in past.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Vanilla Abomasnow is unranked btw, just pointing it out. No way that Mega Aboma would be better than it when it generally has been considered to be inferior overall to Sash Aboma in past.
Ok I'll stick it next to regular aboma in the next update.
 
B -> B-. Burn nerf, nuff said. And too much competition in teamslot. Lando is arguably even more common than it used to be, and Fini completely fucks it over. Could see it dropping to C+ even but lets be not that harsh (yet).

View attachment 93486B- -> B. Tailwind, hits Tapus hard, has good coverage (fire moves or just general nuke with Draco Meteor), Snarl and things like that. And if it gets boosts it can be really dangerous. And against things that just outspeed it, like Scarf Lando and Lele, It can just use Sash and HP Ice and Sludge Bomb, respectively. It is frail and fairly predictable but considering the cool tools it has, it deserves B, IMO.

B -> B-. Move over, the true Duck is back again so GTFO. Jokes aside, it's offensive capability is lame compared to last year and it is much, much easier to kill as well this year. And unlike Cress it lacks support moves outside from TR. Twave also got nerfed which kinda sucks for it, so it has even less support move options. It got kinda similar changes as Cresselia with transition of 2015 to 2018, in form of being easier to kill with single hit. However, unlike Cresselia, it didn't get the major buff in form of 50% berries...because it cannot use them. I just feel like there are less and less reasons to use this over Cresselia than in past.

B -> B-. Main niche was Draco Meteor nuking, but that got nerfed with Misty Terrain and in general of Fairies being even more common. That being said , I feel like the choice between this and Ludicolo is most of time more obvious. It did gain tools like Z-moves which is kinda cool, though.
I actually think Entei SHOULD move to C+. Outside of Sacred Fire, it just doesn't have a lot of good moves. Stomping Tantrum is a neat new trick but unfortunately, and it learns Snarl, Bulldoze, and Stone Edge, but that's it. Other fire types like Incineroar and Arcanine are just as bulky but actually have a movepool that they can use. Give Entei some moves and maybe but it just doesn't have enough moves and faces too much competition.
 
One word: Bisharp
Counters Intimidate Landorus-T, Sucker Punch/Knock Off takes care of Aegislash, Cresselia and Mega-Metagross, and Iron Head takes care of all Tapus, Tyranitar and Mega-Gardevoir. If you add to that Swords Dance and a companion with Tailwind... god damn. Quite bulky in defense and good typing allows only 2 weakness x2 and 1 weakness x4. Even if he can be countered with a Heatran or a Mega Charizard Y or even with Landorus-T Superpower, a boosted Sucker Punch solves everything. I have a Mega Charizard Y in my team, battled like 5 or 10 of those and still haven't defeated one. Honestly put him up in B tier at least although he deserves being in B+ or even higher...
 
One word: Bisharp
Counters Intimidate Landorus-T, Sucker Punch/Knock Off takes care of Aegislash, Cresselia and Mega-Metagross, and Iron Head takes care of all Tapus, Tyranitar and Mega-Gardevoir. If you add to that Swords Dance and a companion with Tailwind... god damn. Quite bulky in defense and good typing allows only 2 weakness x2 and 1 weakness x4. Even if he can be countered with a Heatran or a Mega Charizard Y or even with Landorus-T Superpower, a boosted Sucker Punch solves everything. I have a Mega Charizard Y in my team, battled like 5 or 10 of those and still haven't defeated one. Honestly put him up in B tier at least although he deserves being in B+ or even higher...
Counters lando-t? Bisharp can't switch into it, so iirc it's a check. I have to do some calcs on this, but I don't think +1 sucker punch ohkoes lando either.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Counters lando-t? Bisharp can't switch into it, so iirc it's a check. I have to do some calcs on this, but I don't think +1 sucker punch ohkoes lando either.
That's right. In gen 6 a +1 sucker punch was close to ohkoing 0/0 lando, but since sucker punch got nerfed to 70 BP, it doesn't any more.
 
Counters lando-t? Bisharp can't switch into it, so iirc it's a check. I have to do some calcs on this, but I don't think +1 sucker punch ohkoes lando either.
Bisharp prevents lando from switching in. Let's say you're running a moveset with Sucker Punch, Iron Head, Swords Dance, Protect and a defensive object like Sash just in case. With good prediction you can put that swords dance up and that's already +2. Paired with a good partner like a Tailwind or Wide Guard user, makes sure that the Swords Dance is put up in the first turn and there you have a Sucker Punch sweeper. Even if both enemies use a fire or fight single target move, you have protect.
So basically as long as you can predict your opponent's moves, Bisharp is a beast. As I said, still haven't found a mon to completely counter it. If you did find one make sure you tell me, because right now I see him quite unstoppable if the player can predict his opponent...
 
Feel like Togekiss should drop to B- or even C+ - after playing with it a fair bit it struggles to take hits from things like Mega Metagross and Naganadel which limits its ability to set up Tailwind, and with those being popular mons it makes it difficult for it to fulfil one of its best roles. It can spam Air slash vs things to play for flinches, but Zapdos is a better Tailwind setter and it's not the bulkiest of Pokemon so redirection isn't particularly good either
 

Adamant Zoroark

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If we're talking about what's in B, I'm not entirely certain Suicune deserves to occupy the same rank as Milotic - not that I agree with Milotic being as low as it is, but I'll hold off on that since it only just dropped. Suicune gets Tailwind (and Roar if you need some Trick Room prevention), and also has better overall bulk than Milotic (particularly on the physical side), but it's still giving up Competitive, which makes it a little less effective at beating Landorus-T and Mega Salamence (not to mention the fact that Milotic gets Icy Wind, making Tailwind a bit less of a selling point for Suicune).

The way I see it, Suicune might be able to beat Landorus-T and Mega Salamence, but Milotic can turn them into liabilities (given that Milotic is in before Salamence Mega Evolves), so having the two in the same rank is really iffy. Suicune should, at any given point, be at least one sub-rank below Milotic, so if we're going to have Milotic in B, Suicune should be no higher than B- in my opinion.
 
If we're talking about what's in B, I'm not entirely certain Suicune deserves to occupy the same rank as Milotic - not that I agree with Milotic being as low as it is, but I'll hold off on that since it only just dropped. Suicune gets Tailwind (and Roar if you need some Trick Room prevention), and also has better overall bulk than Milotic (particularly on the physical side), but it's still giving up Competitive, which makes it a little less effective at beating Landorus-T and Mega Salamence (not to mention the fact that Milotic gets Icy Wind, making Tailwind a bit less of a selling point for Suicune).

The way I see it, Suicune might be able to beat Landorus-T and Mega Salamence, but Milotic can turn them into liabilities (given that Milotic is in before Salamence Mega Evolves), so having the two in the same rank is really iffy. Suicune should, at any given point, be at least one sub-rank below Milotic, so if we're going to have Milotic in B, Suicune should be no higher than B- in my opinion.
Suicune also has access to Icy Wind so that argument is void. Also Suicune has access to Snarl, which, while not so good against Milotic and Bisharp, is still a fantastic support move. Still, Milotic has some benifits over Suicune as you said, but I think both can work in the same rank imo.
 

Adamant Zoroark

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Suicune also has access to Icy Wind so that argument is void. Also Suicune has access to Snarl, which, while not so good against Milotic and Bisharp, is still a fantastic support move. Still, Milotic has some benifits over Suicune as you said, but I think both can work in the same rank imo.
... Not really? Suicune really doesn't wanna drop Ice Beam (it needs it in order to OHKO Landorus-T and Mega Salamence), not to mention the redundancy with Tailwind. Meanwhile, Milotic could more easily excuse dropping Ice Beam for Icy Wind due to Competitive (Modest with 132 SpA EVs still OHKOes Mega Salamence at +2, but unfortunately misses out on Landorus-T). So, no, bringing up Icy Wind isn't really a moot argument at all.

I can give you the point on Snarl; while it is a good support move by any measure, Wide Guard is much more of a thing than it was in VGC 2017 thanks to Aegislash, which admittedly makes me a little hesitant to weigh it too heavily in Suicune's favor (I'm also not weighing Icy Wind too heavily in Milotic's favor for this reason)

I just think Milotic has more overall potential than Suicune - and this is coming from someone who's currently using Suicune. :shrug:
 
You can play cune with both! In 2015 I played actually both support moves and ice beam on my suicune! Icy wind scald ice beam tailwind was the set. Yes, snarl is a very good option but it slows your game. If you play a tailwind team with cune, you want to control the speed tiers the entire time and play very aggressive and set up with your partner potentially. Thats the reason why I never used snarl and dropped it for the second type of speed control which hits 4x weaknesses pretty hard.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Another thing about milotic is that if your opponent doesn't let it get a competitive boost, either by not bringing their intimidators or through careful play, it's mostly dead weight outside of icy wind spam and hits like a wet noodle. Suicine can at least be consistently useful in every matchup that you'd want tailwind for, and it can even be useful against TR teams since it has access to roar. (though I guess milotic also has dragon tail)
 
Can we move P2 down a rank or two? Probably B- works best. Cress is back, and does pretty much everything P2 does but better. Access to recovery moves, a stab that actually hurts things, TR of course, an immunity with levitate, still a lot of bulk with the added benefit of being able to run a pinch berry, and ice beam for lando. She can't trace intimidate, but she's still far better than Porygon2. We've also got Stak here as a different type of TR setter, a more offensive one that can actually carry it's own weight and hurt an ample part of the meta, minus Lando (and it could even 2hko that with gyroball) and a handful of waters. He even has access to wide guard. P2 was kind of a one trick pony as a solid TR setter in 17, but it's dead, boys and girls.
 
You can play cune with both! In 2015 I played actually both support moves and ice beam on my suicune! Icy wind scald ice beam tailwind was the set. Yes, snarl is a very good option but it slows your game. If you play a tailwind team with cune, you want to control the speed tiers the entire time and play very aggressive and set up with your partner potentially. Thats the reason why I never used snarl and dropped it for the second type of speed control which hits 4x weaknesses pretty hard.
I've been running Suicune on my VGC 2018 team and I never once thought of this idea. Thanks! :D
 

Adamant Zoroark

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Another thing about milotic is that if your opponent doesn't let it get a competitive boost, either by not bringing their intimidators or through careful play, it's mostly dead weight outside of icy wind spam and hits like a wet noodle. Suicine can at least be consistently useful in every matchup that you'd want tailwind for, and it can even be useful against TR teams since it has access to roar. (though I guess milotic also has dragon tail)
Suicune hits like a wet noodle all the time.

Also, it’s interesting that you bring up denying a Competitive boost - if the mere presence of Milotic is enough to make your opponent seriously consider benching Landorus-T (an S-rank ‘mon), that’s a pretty damn big success, honestly.
 
One word: Bisharp
Counters Intimidate Landorus-T, Sucker Punch/Knock Off takes care of Aegislash, Cresselia and Mega-Metagross, and Iron Head takes care of all Tapus, Tyranitar and Mega-Gardevoir. If you add to that Swords Dance and a companion with Tailwind... god damn. Quite bulky in defense and good typing allows only 2 weakness x2 and 1 weakness x4. Even if he can be countered with a Heatran or a Mega Charizard Y or even with Landorus-T Superpower, a boosted Sucker Punch solves everything. I have a Mega Charizard Y in my team, battled like 5 or 10 of those and still haven't defeated one. Honestly put him up in B tier at least although he deserves being in B+ or even higher...
kang ohkos you through sash with low kick, zard melts you with flamethrower, lele blocks your sucker and then does 84% min with a non-item boosted moonblast (meaning you just insta gib if it's life orb) and sucker doesn't do significant damage to anything without the defiant boost. i'm not sure where you have room for swords dance when bisharp is basically forced to run knock off/iron head/protect/sucker punch every set.

i also think milotic sucks but between the two if you have to play an intimidate deterrent i think milotic is at least a lot more functional in the realm of a team player than bisharp without one, and has much better stats and typing to be taking shit like landorus-t on

bisharp was really average in 2015 and now we have psychic terrain, more zard-y and sucker has been reduced to 70 BP, it's not a good look
 
triple post don't @ me

if you're considering using bisharp as a way to beat cresselia, aegislash, and landorus-t, why not just use z-move hydreigon which hits just as hard from the special side, has better speed, bulk, and better coverage
 
triple post don't @ me

if you're considering using bisharp as a way to beat cresselia, aegislash, and landorus-t, why not just use z-move hydreigon which hits just as hard from the special side, has better speed, bulk, and better coverage
They play different roles. Bisharp is a physical attacker that discourages intimidate, while Hydreigon is a Sp.Atk er that can set up tailwind. Bisharp also has better neutral coverage between STAB, with only Incineroar, Houndoom, Sharpedo, Gyarados-Mega, and Greninja, and opposing Bisharp resist, while Hydreigon gets hard walled by fairies. As someone who has been using it, I think B and B- rank is fine; it does it job well, but it’s tools have been nerfed, and its old enemies returning. But the niche of being the only with Pokémon with Defiant is good. Synral, next time edit your post than triple posting.
 

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