Resource USM LC Viability Rankings (VR Update @ #249)

Merritt

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there was a key point i feel like you missed out on, being the prevalence of snivy in the meta. simply put, deerling is the only really viable sap sipper pokemon in the tier and being able to flat out stop snivy from setting up and cheese it with headbutt flinches makes for a pretty nice niche, and snivy's skyrocketed usage only helps deerling out. now i suppose snivy can hp ice deerling on the switch, and if its lo deerling like normal it can just end up being koed if it doesnt get two headbutt flinches. and as you mentioned earlier, deerling is pretty weak and relies on its haxing to get past bulky threats, which doesnt make it very reliable, not to mention i havent seen anyone use it to successfully check snivy or hax opponents, so i dont think its fit for b- just yet, c+ seems fine though.
You cannot use both Sap Sipper and Serene Grace for Deerling on the same set. You only get one ability.

That being said, Deerling's ability to outpace Snivy until it gets Glared is quite helpful, but it's certainly not a long term counter without running Sap Sipper - and Sap Sipper Deerling is almost certainly a C rank Pokemon.
 

jake

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unfortunately, that replay shows pretty much nothing pertaining to deerling's viability after its buff (headbutt). that's just old deerling with the flyinium bounce set you see on foo and such
 

Shrug

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I've played around with a few pokemon and am poised to stand in judgement of them for this thread

Dewpider to B-. Seems like an odd nom given how it was initially overhyped as a webs setter. Even if it was as effective as people claimed, webs is worse in this meta thanks to the rise of snivy. But webs is still powerful and Dewpider is a quality setter. More than that, it's a hard pokemon to take down - surprisingly bulky, with Leech Life to hammer switchins that expect the Water Bubble-boosted Liquidation. It's a good mon, and holds down a place on what I think of as "semi-webs" teams, ones that dont need to set but often like to for the endgame with abra.

Amaura to B. I've used this, as has Heysup, and it's a good pokemon for this meta. Blizzard is a good offensive move in a metagame with Snivys and Mudbrays on a lot of teams, and Hail really does a lot to chip at its "soft" checks - your mienfoos and the like.

Taillow to B. The Flame Orb set is better than Bunnelby. Sorry. Facade does a billion to normal mons, and having Brave Bird to get OHKOs means you can force more switches than youd expect. Having 19 speed means you get a ton of opportunites to fire off Facades, which is nice. I'd advise protect, which lets you burn fake outs and scout for Scarf moves and also get the Flame Orb on the first turn.

Drilbur to B. Donkey getting rocks now means u need to do gymnastic contortions to justify adding this mon to a team. There's perhaps a fruitful groundspam build waiting to be discovered, but that's niche and deserving of a B ranking.

I havent used it so im not going to do this formally but one of you ought to nom Wingull for a raise. You people just fucking love that shit huh. Using wingull gets you apes going. I dont get it but y'all seem insistent on forcing me into speed ties with an actually good mon, Staryu, and your Oldale town trash.
 

Merritt

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Drilbur to B. Donkey getting rocks now means u need to do gymnastic contortions to justify adding this mon to a team. There's perhaps a fruitful groundspam build waiting to be discovered, but that's niche and deserving of a B ranking.
Going to second this one and say Drilbur should honestly go all the way down to B-. Drilbur is just so mediocre right now, what with Mudbray being better in basically everything except hazard removal, but even then there's so many options for hazard removal that are all really good that condensing the role isn't as valuable as it used to be. Basically the only reason I'd really consider using Drilbur in the current meta is for its LO set, since that actually can take out BJ Snivy if you run Poison Jab. Drilbur honestly fits in better down in B- than B.

Similarly, Hippopotas should probably drop down to at least C+, possibly lower. With Mudbray getting rocks, suddenly our hippo friend's only things are recovery not named rest or berry juice and sand - and I'm not sure how much of a positive sand really is. Slack Off is helpful enough that it shouldn't be unranked or anything, but a drop is definitely deserved.

Meanwhile I'm going to nominate something a little strange but I swear it's better than a meme. Krabby should be put into C. With the addition of Liquidation, Krabby finally has its niche over Corphish - namely finally being stronger. With its boosting moves and pretty good physical bulk it's a surprising threat, especially lategame. The lack of Aqua Jet still means I'd say Corphish is a better mon, but even so with Krabby's workable movepool and immediate strength (protip: LO isn't really all that good, eviolite is better), it deserves a ranking.

Meanwhile re: Deerling, yeah it should rise, it's really annoying but also very effective, minor lack of power is annoying but it's still a monster to everything slower not a ghost or named Timburr.
 

Shrug

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Snivy to A+. I spent some time quietly contemplating teambuilding today and concluded Snivy is the lynchpin of the current meta. This is indisputable. Raise it.

Torchic to A. Fuck this mon, if you use it get shot. But it's good as hell, especially with the new tactics oafs desperately thirsty for the Tough Points (1520-1640) on the ladder have developed - bulky SD pass, anyone? @council fuck this thing.

Pawniard to A+. Defog supercharges this man's hands like he's a non-racist Iron Fist. I didnt watch that show and apparently it sucked, but Pawniard doesn't. Good Snivy check, sucker punch is always useful in an offensive metagame, gets Rocks pretty well. It's central to the meta in a way its A-rank peers are not.

Snubbull to A-. Hurr Durr i got dunked on and now pawniard can Zidane something with absolute freedom. Here i go not checking most mons for any period of time, sucking, and getting blasted by special attacks. I dont like this mon, i dont think it's good in this meta; sprtizee trbe forever.
 
alright nerds, ladder hero trash here. After looking at this subpar vr, I—a honorable Little Cup Forum contributor—have decided to waste my not-so precious time to contribute to the best community on smogon.com as well as my favorite one too!
Note: my English sucks and poor word choices

Staryu: S -> A+

There has been some discussion on dropping Staryu. As an avid Staryu spammer since XY, I agree with dropping Staryu to A+. Currently Staryu is one of the most splashable mon due to its ability to support the team. It is able to remove hazards effectively, check fire-, water-, and ground-types, and act as a fast offensive mon (defensive sets is really bad btw). Staryu has many sets: LO, offensive spinner, defensive spinner and two of the best sets aren't even that good. The LO and offensive sets aren't that bad because it has a large range of coverages to choose from, but are outclassed by other offensive water types. This is the same with the defensive sets. I believe that the only reason to use Staryu is to compress multiple roles in one slot at a subpar level.

As stated before, I only see Staryu as a mon to compress multiple roles at a sub-par level. However, this does not mean that Staryu is a horrible mon because it is by far the most reliable spinner/hazard remover. Being a fire-, water-, and ground-type check is great, but it is usually 2hkod after sr from those mons. Staryu barely switches in and is forced to recover most of the time, which means losing momentum or not being able to spin. Another positive attribute that Staryu has is being a 19 speed mon, this means that it is able to outspeed a majority of the meta. Its splashability and being able to be on all archetypes allows it to become one of the most used mon, but its checks also being popular and splashable hinders its utility because of it being so weak and frail.

The main reason people use Staryu is to remove hazards, yet people don't realize that there are better hazard removers that isn't dead weight. Its competition against Vullaby, Snivy, Wingull, and Kabuto makes it even worse because these hazard removers have something in common, and that is that they fulfill Staryu's role at the same level or even better in addition to having another purpose.

Vullaby acts as an offensive hazard removal and is very difficult to check, compared to Staryu--who has many mons that checks it. Its typing is far superior than Staryu, thus being a better hazard removal. Snivy is also another offensive hazard removal. Also, it is able to switch into most SR mon and freely defog it away, check water- and ground-types like Staryu, and is one of the best sweeper/cleaner. As for the other two, Wingull and Kabuto, you can already see the benefits over Staryu, but to sum it up:
Wingull: offensive defogger, provides momentum or knock off support, hits hard (I'll go over Wingull more in-depth later in my post)
Kabuto: spinner and sr, bird & fire check, decent priority with ajet
I am not saying that Staryu is weak (it indeed is strong with Analytic), but it is easier to check and other mons listed above provides a greater benefit for the team.

Water is a great defensive type, but Staryu does not utilize it well because of it being frail. Sure, Staryu is able to avoid most 2hkos with eviolite still intact. Once you knock off a Staryu, it becomes one of the most useless mon besides hitting hard. An evioless Staryu pretty much dies to everything, unable to check its checks/counters or loses momentum by using recover, which makes it become an unreliable spinner. Some examples of this are popular stealth rocker Onix, Mudbray, Pawniard, and Kabuto.
Note: this does not apply to LO and z-move Staryu

If it wasn't clear I am not saying that Staryu is a bad mon because it does fulfill its roles efficiently and is clearly an A+ rank mon. However, comparing it with the other two S-rank mons, I do not see it on par with Abra or Timburr which is why I think Staryu should drop as well as the reasons stated above.

Croagunk: A+ -> A/A-

This may be one of the most controversial nom. Croagunk does not favor the meta shifting at all. The rise of Mudbray, fire-types, and bird spam still being prevalent. Croagunk is also another mon, like Staryu, compress many roles into one and does a poor job at doing them too. Croagunk’s acts as a fighting-, dark-, water-, grass-, rock-type check, and a special sweeper. However, due to its poor bulk and lack of recovery, it often fails to check certain mons or switch-in and gets chunked easily. While Croagunk does have multiple sets, the only notable one is its nasty plot sweeper set. Basically a jack of all trades, master of none type of mon.

With the new addition of stealth rock toy, Mudbray, this increased Croagunk’s checks. Mudbray is able to switch into Croagunk then retaliate and ohko it, while outspeeding the standard spreads. Croagunk is forced to run 15 speed, which I believe is the best set in the metagame, to outspeed and ohko it most of the time. But by using 15 speed Croagunk, you lose your defensive capability to switch into your checks. Fire-types being on the rise due to its amazing offensive presence also hinders Croagunk’s relevance in the meta. Ponyta, Torchic, Larvesta, and Salandit—mainly the first two—becoming more relevant are able to ohko Croagunk due to it’s ability, dry skin, and able to take a +2 vacuum wave after stealth rock (Larvesta isn’t able to ohko, but the other three can with its z-move). Bird spam in the current metagame is practically the best archetype. Croagunk is unable to kill most of these mons due to its low speed and weak priority, unless the birds are weaken and Croagunk is boosted. Flying-types outspeed Croagunk and ohko it with its respective flying-type move.

Croagunk defensive capability may seem great on paper; however, due its poor bulk and lack of recovery, it gets weakened easily. Using Croagunk as a primary check to certain types leads teams to failure, so people are forced to run a secondary check to the other types. As a fighting-type check, it loses its eviolite or berry juice most of the time and isn’t able to switch into them after losing its eviolite or berry juice because Mienfoo 2hkos with hjk and offensive Timburr 2hkos with fire punch (this is somewhat better than ice punch). While its popular role compression of revenge killing Pawniard, Carvanha, smashers, and other rock-types is a bonus, Croagunk can’t switch into them safely most of the time which makes it a shakey check. Because its inability to switch-in safely, this leads Croagunk to become a hinderance to the team as you will need to sack a mon or somehow get it in safely. Also, there isn’t really a point to have a Croagunk as a revenge killer when Timburr is allowed. I have seen people using Croagunk as their switch-in to Snivy and this is a really bad check because Snivy is able to 2hko with leaf storm on evioless Croagunks and easily weakened if eviolite. Also, Snivy is able to knock off on the incoming Croagunk switch and making it lose its eviolite or berry juice. Water-types are checked by Croagunk due to its ability and most of them are also able to run a coverage to hit it neutrally or super effectively. To sum this part up, Croagunk is not a reliable defensive mon and requires significant amount of team support to succeed.

Having only one set and easily countered by popular mons used in the metagame is worthy enough to drop Croagunk from its A+ rank. Croagunk only relevant set is nasty plot sweeper and its last slot syndrome—focus blast, shadow ball, vacuum wave, knock off, and sucker punch—makes it worse because of being walled by different types of checks. At the moment, Croagunk’s last slot should be focus blast to ohko Mudbray most of the time and hit other mons really hard as well as be 15 speed. Croagunk attempts to sweep, but fails miserably most of the time because of its role compression. It tries to check several mons and gets weaken to the point where it can’t sweep comfortably, or they have a solid counter to it. The mixed set is really bad because of its low speed and being terribly weak, while its physical set is not preferred in the current metagame.

Compared to the other A+ rank, Gastly, Onix, and Foongus, who can perform well in the meta and do their specific role proficiently. Croagunk is not an A+ rank worthy mon due to its inability to perform well in the current metagame. As stated before, this mon is a jack of all trades, master of none meaning it attempts to compress multiple of roles but can’t do them effectively.

My take on Croagunk’s set and role in the metagame is a fast sweeper (15 speed) that switches into its checks when necessary to set up and sweep.
Also, dig is broken so bop.

Doduo: A -> A+

Look at your team and tell me your Doduo switch-in. Doduo gained an amazing coverage in SM, being jump kick. The prominent set, berry juice aoa, and its moveset: brave bird, knock off, jump kick, and quick attack or return allows it to hit everything in the meta either neutrally and super effectively as well as hitting really hard due to its high base attack. The downfall of Doduo is that it has poor bulk and can’t switch into things; however, due to the metagame shift being geared towards offense, Doduo performs amazingly because of being able to deal a large amount of damage every time it comes in. Doduo not only has one incredible set, but two sets that perform effectively in the metagame. Its checks often lose to Doduo because of its excellent attack stat, high speed, and coverage, thus making it an important physical threat in the meta.

After realizing that you don’t have a reliable switch-in because all of them gets 2hkod anyways, you now have to guess if the Doduo’s set is either scarf or berry juice. Doduo demolishes all types of teams from semi-stall to hyper offense. SM giving jump kick is a blessing because it doesn’t need to rely on hp fighting to hit Pawniard and is able to hit other steel- and rock-types. The prominent set, berry juice, allows it to switch-in even when sr are up, spam brave bird without the fear of dying to recoil and switch into some attacks. The reason why berry juice is superior to scarf in the meta is because its ability to switch moves rather than being locked into one.

Comparing Doduo with the current A+ rank and A rank, Doduo easily outperforms the majority of A ranks and performs evenly or even better than the A+ rank. Doduo acts as an offensive physical attacker or revenge killer (with scarf), which is similar to A+ rank—Gastly—also being an offensive special attacker or revenge killer. Gastly and Doduo share many similarities and both are low risk high reward mons, but have some drawbacks which makes it an A+ mon and not S.

Not being able to switch into attacks is huge drawback as an offensive mon because this loses momentum. Doduo is able to switch into some attacks, mainly when rocks are off the field, and fire off a brave bird. While Doduo’s fallback of its inability to switch-in, the metagame is currently geared towards offense making a menacing mon.

With the metagame shifting towards offense, Doduo can break through teams with ease. Since the meta is geared towards offense, a bunch of frail mons are floating around waiting to be eaten by Doduo. Doduo can ohko or 2hko the majority of S or A rank mons, which are all relevant in the meta. Offense being on the rise means that less people are running bulky mons, which allows Doduo to rampage in the meta. There are some reliable switch-ins like Onix, Ferroseed, Mudbray, Snubbull, and Kabuto, but they are easily weakened after repetitively switching in.
Doduo’s main set: berry juice aoa is incredible in the current meta, but its choice scarf set also should be recognized. Choice scarf doduo allows it to revenge kill many set up sweepers, slower scarf mons, weakened mons, and flying weak. Because of Doduo’s great speed tier: 18 speed it allows it to run a choice scarf set and revenge kill many mons. It is able to outspeed and revenge kill set up sweepers like ice shardless Shellder, Omanyte, Scraggy, and Snivy then hit it with a strong attack. Another bonus to scarf Doduo over bj is that it is able to trap Gastly and Abra with pursuit, or just break the sash to let your sweepers clean up.

Doduo fairs outstandingly in the offensive bird competition. Vullaby and Doduo are very similar, but Vullaby has more competitive sets which is why Vullaby is usually better unless you want a faster mon. While comparing Doduo with Rufflet or Wingull, Doduo is a more consistent and reliable offensive mon that can provide knock off support and deal with its own counters or checks with jump kick by outspeeding it.
This two-headed bird is arguably one of the best physical attacker in LC. Doduo barely requires any support and synergizes with other offensive mons. Doduo and Gastly are basically counterparts of each other, one being a physical offensive attack and the other special. Doduo should rise to A+ because of its offensive capability.

Grimer-Alola: A -> A-

Similar to Croagunk, Grimer-A does not favor the meta trends. One of the main pursuit trapper and its only role is a trapper. It doesn’t enjoy competition against other pursuit trappers, Pawniard and scarf Doduo, who perform better in the meta. However, it is fairly strong with its 18 attack and spammable move, knock off, and its fantastic stats and typing. This allows Grimer-A to consistently trap Abra and Gastly, but due to its poor speed it is unable to trap other ghost types. Grimer-A has one of the worse mss in LC and really wants both a fire-type move and priority—shadow sneak.

Although Grimer-A can weaken its check, it does not have reliable recover outside of berry juice and has limited times it can switch into stuff. Mudbray and Onix are the main switch-ins and abuses its ground weakness by setting up rocks or firing off a strong eq. Grimer-A is also a matchup reliant mon, as if there is no Abra or Gastly, it basically dies to everything or clicks knock off a few times. Grimer-A is also trapped by Diglett or Trapinch, which is very common on Abra/Gastly teams. However, it can check other offensive mons due to its typing, but can be easily weakened.
Grimer-A’s competition as a pursuit trapper is the main reason why it should be dropped. Pawniard and Doduo performs better as a trapper and an offensive physical attacker. Both of these mons also are fast and can cover the same checks that Grimer-A covers.

Pawniard: A -> A+

With Snivy and Wingull being more prominent as a hazard remover, Pawniard can abuse or prevent them from defogging because of its ability—defiant. Pawniard compresses many roles being a knock off spammer, stealth rocker, pursuiter, bird check, Snivy check, Shellder check, and basically a strong physical attacker. It also has two viable sets, offensive stealth rock and scarf, which both perform effectively in the meta. Pawniard’s typing is one of the best typing competitively and spammable.

Due to the rise of defog Snivy and Wingull, Pawniard is now back to being an offensive presence who prevents defog. A +2 Pawniard is not something you can laugh about and is able to ohko a majority of the meta. Pawniard is also able to check both of the current relevant defoggers due to its typing and natural bulk.

Pawniard also compresses many roles and does them well. Due to its high natural attack, it can spam strong knock offs to cripple other mons every time it switches in. The eviolite set allows it to become one of the best offensive stealth rocker. While its typing lets it become a defensive monster. Pawniard is able to check birds, Snivy, and Shellder. Birds are currently relevant, so is Snivy and Shellder being one of the best sweepers. Pawniard is able to check to an extent, but has to be careful because of not having a reliable recovery. And its scarf set lets it trap or weaken threats like Abra, Gastly, Doduo, Wingull, and Snivy. It basically is a strong physical attacker than can check many mons and provide support with stealth rock or pursuit. Overall Pawniard improved dramatically in the metagame shifts and deserves a rise.

Snubbull: A -> A-

I never really got why Snubbull is ranked higher than Spritzee. Snubbull is an excellent physical defensive mon, but is not really that good because every team naturally has a switch-in. It is effective as a defensive mon, but does not deserve to be higher than Spritzee. Compared to Spritzee, Snubbull isn’t as reliant as a fighting check

The main sets being fast sub and fully defensive are decent. Sub Snubbull allows it to pop its berry juice and take another item or mind games with Foongus, while the fully defensive set allows it to deal with physical mons more effectively. There really isn’t that much to say about this mon, but I feel like Spritzee is the better fairy.

Ponyta: A- -> A

Offensive fire-types is ridiculously broken right now. Physical Ponyta with z-flare blitz and high horse power gives is a tremendous amount of pressure against most teams. This allows it to break through its checks that it couldn’t before without burning a z-move. Ponyta’s versatility and speed are main factors to why this mon is great. With the rise of better hazard removers, Ponyta does not fear stealth rock. Also, flame charge allows it to bypass being trapped by Diglett. Ponyta is able to check several key mons and threaten them.

The set user: star posted is the best pony set at the moment (physical offensive z-move Ponyta with flash fire). Ponyta already has a high base speed and to top it off it has a high base attack too, 18 attack and 19 speed are something that you can’t really deal with. Z-flare blitz hits like a truck and is able to ohko many mons that are full or chipped and high horse power gives it coverage to deal with Onix, opposing Ponyta, Torchic, Chinchou, Kabuto, and Mareanie super effectively and neutrally against Staryu, Shellder, and Slowpoke. The two last moves, flame charge and morning sun, lets it support itself by either boosting with speed or recovering becoming a reliable check to Snivy, etc.

Ponyta is very versatile. It has 3 other sets that are also effective in the metagame. Physically defensive, z-solar beam, and z-sunny day/fire blast. Physically defensive allows it to deal with fighters, Pawniard, other physical attackers, and grass-types properly due to flame body, will o wisp, reliable recovery, and being fast. Or it can use other offensive sets: z-solar beam lets it bypass its checks, mainly Slowpoke, Staryu, Onix, and Kabuto and z-sunny day is similar as it has solar beam as its coverage and able to sweep after receiving the +1 speed boost or you can nuke a mon with z-fire blast. From team preview, you usually can’t tell what set Ponyta is due to have 4 good sets. This makes it really difficult on telling whether or not your “check” can check it or not.

Stealth rock was a main issue for Ponyta in XY; however, with better hazard removers introduced or recently used in SM, Ponyta is currently on the rise. Snivy or Wingull and Ponyta complement each other really well. First off, Snivy and Ponyta covers each other checks. Ponyta has a rock, ground, water weakness and Snivy covers them all, while Snivy has a fire, ice, bug weakness and Ponyta covers them all. As for Wingull and Ponyta, Wingull can deal with the Ponyta’s rock and ground weakness, while both mons help break for each other as they both are fast and strong.
Ponyta’s fast speed and resistance allow it to check Snivy, Foongus, non-choice scarf Gastly, Pawniard, Ferroseed, Torchic, etc. It is able to switch into most of these mons and threaten them with either flare blitz, fire blast, or high horse power. Being of the only offensive Torchic answer is also a great thing because Torchic is busted. Overall Ponyta’s versatilely and immense offensive pressure pushes it from an A- to an A.

Spritzee: A- -> A

Yea not many people would agree on this, but with Torchic being broken af and Spritzee gaining a new set, it is by far the superior defensive and offensive fairy-type. Nasty plot Spritzee is a fire set, but requires support from either Torchic or sticky webs. However, its defensive set is one of the most reliable fighting check and practically eats any hit.

Nasty plot Spritzee. I have been using this since USM introduced it because of its great typing and decent coverage—psychic and hidden power. This allows Spritzee to hit anything and ohko them at +2. The set I have been using on my Torchic and webs team is nasty plot, draining kiss, moonblast, and psychic with berry juice. I believe that this is the best np Spritzee set because using hp fire makes it lose a point in its special attack and speed and draining kiss is amazing. Draining kiss is really underrated on offensive Spritzee for some reason, and its ability to recover health after taking some damage is very beneficial since it helps it sweep with ease. I can go on with this set, but the defensive one also warrants it to raise to A.

The defensive annoying wish set is one of the most reliable fighting check and mon that can take any hit. The common set: moonblast, wish, protect, and filler—filler being either covet (this allows it take be a better knock off sponge and take other mon’s item), hp fire (lures ferro), psychic (helps with poison switch-ins, mainly Gastly and Foonugs), and aromatherapy/heal bell (not a really good filler, but viable). 27 hp with 16 def, 14 spdef. And reliable recovery makes it very hard to kill. However, many people say that Spritzee loses momentum and is deadweight, but I feel that it applies to Snubbull too. Spritzee provides better team support with passing wish and having reliable recovery to check fighters, while Snubbull only supports with the occasional twave and only berry juice, which always gets knocked off, as its recovery.
Overall the benefits of Spritzee outweighs Snubbull’s. Spritzee has 2 good sets that are both viable in the current metagame. I honestly don’t understand why people wanted Spritzee to be lower than Snubbull, they should have always been at an equal rank. But with the new set Spritzee acquired, I feel that this pushed the edge and helped it become the superior fairy.

Torchic: A- -> A+/A

Absurdly broken mon. This mon is single-handedly changed the current meta. Torchic provides support by speed boost and great base stats. Passing speed is the main reason why Torchic should raise.

Torchic has been relevant since XY, but ever since z-moves was introduced Torchic became an offensive monster. Offensive Torchic is devastating with its coverage, fire blast and hp grass, being able to hit everything. While z-fire blast is the preferred set, LO provides immediate damage unlike z-move Torchic. Since USM introduced a strong stealth rocker, Mudbray, and a new sweeper, np Spritzee, Torchic immediately gained recognition, and speed pass became a more common archetype since it gained better receivers. Torchic changed the meta by being able to pass speed and its ability to threaten many teams with its high special attack. This mon led to the rise of flash fire Ponyta, evio Mudbray, Slowpoke, Mareanie, and Frillish in the meta. Besides Ponyta, Slowpoke, and Mareanie 99% of LC are unable to switch into Torchic because it is either ohkod or 2hkod. Choice scarf dig became more recognized and used because of its ability to trap a +2 Torchic. There are other checks like Corphish, Onix, and Kabuto, but don’t necessarily enjoy taking a hp grass.

Torchic boasts a 17 spatt when invested and 21/11/12 defensively. This allows Torchic to fire off strong hits, take hits and priorities easier, and gain the opportunity to pass to another mon that can take advantage from their switch. As noted before Torchic struggles with other fire-types because its coverage and one of the best mon currently paired with Torchic is Mudbray. Mudbray provides stealth rock and can check/switch into fire-type mons. Many mons (Croagunk, Mubray, Snivy, Vullaby, Spritzee, you should get the point) benefit significantly after receiving a speed boost. This allows them to become a slow bulky mon into a fast offensive menace. Anything that received a speed boost from Torchic becomes a threat immediately due to outspeeding a majority of the meta and threatening opposing teams.

Without the ability to baton pass its speed boost, Torchic fails to have a significant role in the meta. The main reason to use Torchic is because of passing speed and ability to synergize with other offensive mons. Passing speed allows it to support its team and let them either clean up or sweep. While I have emphasized on offensive Torchic, swords dance and curse are also great sets as it can set up and pass to an abuser. The main reason Torchic is better than Ponyta as an offensive fire-type, in my opinion, is the ability to support its team better. Torchic is on par with many of the offensive threats in A and A+ rank, like Gastly, Doduo, Snivy, Croagunk, and Pawniard. All of these offensive mons are able to support their teams with its resistances and fire off strong hits, which Torchic usually does better and provides speed boost to the team.

Carvanha: B+ -> A-

Speed boost mon #2. Carvanha is a great mon in the meta since it is able to check offensive fire-types, enjoys the rise of Diglett and Mudbray, and the drop in Croagunk. Carvanha is one of the best offensive water-type in LC due to its high base attack and spatt. I don’t see why this mon is underappreciated because its combination of speed, power, and versatility is far superior to many of the B+ rank mons and equally matched with A- rank mons.

Carvanha enjoys the current meta trend. It is able to ohko the offensive fire-types and Diglett most of the time with aqua jet. Mudbray being more popular lets it abuse its water-type weakness and threaten the opposing team with a strong physical or special attack. With the drop in usage for Croagunk, Carvanha can swiftly sweep/clean up teams as the only other reliable revenge killer being Timburr. Carvanha possess two strong sets being physical attacker and special attacker, both sets have its benefits and everything that can switch into its physical set is destroyed by the special set and vice versa. Without knowing Carvanha’s set, many teams will struggle because of it boasting a high base attack or spatt. There are variations for each set; special can run hp to lure mons to support the team, while physical can either run ajet or psychic fangs or even both, and both sets can run d bond to lure a threat instead of sweeping.

Like Torchic, Carvanha is an offensive threat that easily synergizes with other offensive mons. It can punch holes early in the game while having no drawback, revenge kill, or sweep later in the game. Carvanha requires very little support and supports other offensive mons by breaking down bulkier mons. This mon appreciates knock off support, voltturn mons, and benefits from water- or dark-type partners which are not needed but Carvanha can sweep easier when given support. One main reason why Carvanha is better than Corphish is because of it has a variety of coverage moves, high amount of pressure when it gets in, and requires less team support to perform well.

Pumkaboo-Super: B+ -> B

If you are looking for a spin blocker in this meta, Pumpkaboo-Super seems good on paper as it beats common spinner: Staryu, but most of the time it is deadweight. Pumpkaboo is very passive and can be taken advantage of easily, very predictable, and struggles checking its check due to its low PP on Snythesis. Also, defoggers are becoming more common than spinners, which diminishes Pumpkaboo’s role.

Comapred with spin blocker: Gastly and Frillish, Pumpkaboo does not have a noticeable difference between those two. Gastly and Pumpkaboo can’t really be compared as it fulfill different roles. Frillish can check the current meta trends: Wingull, offensive fire mons and not being weak to birds is significantly better than Pumpkaboo. Pumpkaboo does have its advantage over Frillish, but isn’t significant enough to the point that it is a rank higher.

Overall, I don't see a point or purpose in choosing Pumpkaboo in the meta since Frillish does everything better and spin blockers becoming worse due to the rise of defog mons.

Surksit: B+ -> B

Webs is still a great playstyle, but it now has a competition with Dewpider on being the best web setter. There are clear advantages and disadvantages for both setters. Surskit is just a faster and weaker Dewpider, but is more reliable on setting up webs. Webs also suffers from the rise of defog Snivy and Wingull.

Surskit’s competition with Dewpider is one of the main reason it should drop. This mon is more known to be a suicide lead or a scarfer to reliably set up webs. It also is able to speed tie with semi-common taunt user: Mienfoo and Onix rather than being too slow and not able set up webs. But compared to Dewpider, who can abuse webs effectively, Surskit feels underwhelming. Comapred to Dewpider, it doesn’t rely completely on webs as it can do things outside of setting up due to its ability, water bubble.

Archen: B -> B-/C+

Archen is a bad stealth rocker and defogger (hazard remover). Like Croagunk, Archen compresses multiple roles and fails to do them effectively. It acts as a flying and fire resist, stealth rocker or defogger, and a physical attacker. However, it does appreciate the meta trend of fire-types being on the rise and bird spam being relevant. Archen just underperforms in all of its role. It isn’t as splashable like it was in XY, but still has its strengths of utility, power, and versatility.

Compared to common stealth rock mons: Onix, Pawniard, and Mudbray, Archen is far worse than those three as they are more consistent, better typing, and bulkier. Onix covers everything Archen checks to a greater extent; it takes physical attacks better, able to switch into birds better, and its ability are actually useful in battles. While Onix is a weaker mon, it is a better supportive mon than Archen and does its role at a high level. If you are looking for an offensive stealth rocker, Pawniard and Mudbray does it better than Archen. Pawniard, like Archen, acts as a flying check and is able to take hits easier. Pawniard supports the team with knock off and stealth rock as well as defensively, checking birds, Snivy, and Shellder. Lastly, Mudbray is one of the best offensive rocker and is a blanket check to many of the threats in the meta. Having a high base attack and hammering off eq and heavy slam makes it incredibly hard to wall, but like Archen it doesn’t have a great defensive stat and if evio, it doesn’t have a reliable recover bar rest.

If we compare this to the common hazard removers: Snivy, Wingull, Staryu, Archen doesn’t provide a consistent way to remove hazards and is usually deadweight. Rising star: Snivy can switch-in common stealth rockers and remove than reliably as well as sweep with leaf storm. Wingull is a fast mon that can defog whenever it wants to and fire off strong hurricanes and scalds or a z-hurricane, and check fighting-, ground-, and fire-types. While Staryu is one of the most consistent spinners, it also can check fire-types effectively as it has reliable recovery and is faster than most of the meta.

While Archen still possess its utility, power, and versatility, it isn’t as prominent as it was in XY for a reason. Archen faces competition as a srer and defogger and falls short compared to them. I find no reason to use Archen over the mons listed above, which is why Archen should drop to B- or C+ as it doesn’t have a notable niche in the meta anymore.

Pancham: B -> B-

I really don’t see a reason to ever use Pancham, sure it can break fairies or poison with gunk shot and zen headbutt, respectively, but it is rarely able to set up and do things due to its low speed. Pancham’s stat are average with 18 atk when invested. However, Pancham lacks a good speed tier and is easily worn down because it takes a hit before attacking. In addition, Pancham is unable to switch-in repeatedly because it lacks recovery. Both of Pancham’s set is subpar compared to the other fighters.

Parting shot pivot is outclassed by pivot Mienfoo. The only niche to use Pancham over Mienfoo as a pivot is because of parting shot. Parting shot supports the team by lowering the enemy’s attack and spat then switching, this helps your sweeper have a free switch and chance to set up. Although parting shot is good on paper, many of the sweepers don’t require support to set up. Pancham rarely pulls this off because it usually gets chunked early in the game and won’t be able to parting shot when your setup sweeper’s check is weakened. Memento and aurora veil also outclasses the niche of helping a sweeper setup. While Pancham’s sd wallbreaker/sweeper set is heavily outclassed by offensive Timburr as a wallbreaker and np Croagunk as a sweeper. The chances of Pancham setting up safely is near impossible because of its average bulk and lack of recovery and often finds itself being revenge killed after setting up. Overall, Pancham niche of supporting setup sweepers is outclassed by memento users and auroa veil and lacks a purpose compared to the more popular fighters.

Wingull: B -> A+/A

I’ve been a Wingull hater since early SM, but recently started using it and discovered how useful it is (if it doesn’t miss hurricanes all the time). Wingull possess a great speed tier and above average spatt stat with a spammable stabs. While Wingull has poor bulk, it is still one of the best hazard remover because it bypasses speed drop from webs due to it being a flying-type and is able to defog freely on most mons due to its speed tier. In my opinion Wingull is a more reliable hazard remover than Staryu and Snivy, but those two do have advantages over Wingull. Wingull is predictable as it only has 3 sets—LO, z-hurricane, and berry juice—that all use the same moves: hurricane, scald, defog/sub/knock/tw, u turn/knock/hp/tw; however, this doesn’t make Wingull a bad mon because hurricane and scald is spammable since it covers a majority of the meta neutrally.

Wingull’s offensive is a huge reason why it should jump a whole rank. It is able to reach 15 spatt and 19 speed, meaning it outspeeds most of the unboosted meta and freely fire offs a strong hurricane. Flying-type is one of the best offensive typing in LC since not many mons are able to resist it, and with the common mons: Onix and Pawniard being the primary flying resist, Wingull is able to ohko Onix and either scald or u turn on the incoming switch for Pawniard.

Its ability to defog webs with ease due to its flying-type and can’t be blocked. Wingull possess 19 speed, meaning it can freely defog as it outspeeds most of the unboosted meta. Staryu has a similar spatt, same speed, and better bulk, but why is Wingull better than it or on an equal level? Wingull’s offensive type, mainly flying, is difficult to resist compared to Staryu’s single type. Although Staryu can run coverage to hit its check, Wingull is more consistent (if it doesn’t miss all the time) as a special attacker.
Some calcs:
Evio fat mon
236 SpA Wingull Hurricane vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236 SpA Wingull Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 15-18 (55.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
116 SpA Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
116 SpA Analytic Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
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Evioless fat mon
236 SpA Wingull Hurricane vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
236 SpA Wingull Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Spritzee: 21-25 (77.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
116 SpA Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
116 SpA Analytic Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Spritzee: 16-21 (59.2 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The difference between Staryu and Wingull is not that far off offensively (flying stab is generally better than water stab), but defensively Staryu has better bulky and Wingull is able to switch into more resistances due to a secondary typing.

Defog vs rapid spin is generally geared towards defog since spinblockers are relevant, but defog only fallback is Pawniard becoming popular and can take advantage of getting defogged on. Staryu vs Wingull, as stated before, depends on the team and is typically favored Wingull due to having a better offensive presence. While Snivy vs Wingull, also depends on what resistances and checks the team needs. Snivy is able to switch into mostly any stealth rocker and freely defog, but if it has defog it loses on knock off or glare. And Wingull is a faster mon and doesn’t lose much from having defog in its moveset.

Wingull is not that versatile because it always runs hurricane, scald, and two fillers; however, the two fillers are very beneficial. Having knock off, defog, u turn, hidden power, and tailwind lets it somewhat become an unpredictable mon. It also has 3 viable items being z-hurricane, berry juice, and lo; z-hurricane allows it to nuke a mon, berry juice makes it able to switch into resists and, also not worry about stealth rock damage, and lo gives it immediate damage. As I stated before, even though Wingull generally runs the same sets, it has the two most spammable moves: hurricane and scald. These two moves covers the entire metagame and is hard to switch into.

Overall Wingull provides support with either knock off and/or defog, fast speed, and being an offensive special attacker. Comparing Wingull with the current A-/=/+ rank mons, it outperforms more than 80% offensively and utility wise. I advise you to try out Wingull if you haven’t already.

Larvesta: B- -> B

With the increase of better hazard removers, Larvesta finds itself in a good position. Its typing is great offensively and defensively. Fire is a difficult type to switch into and if they do have a fire resist, Larvesta can u-turn out. Defensively it resists fairy, fighting, grass, ice, and steel, which means that Larvesta checks many of the meta mons. Its ability: flame body gives it a nice niche of being a physically defensive mon, and it has will o wisp to have a more consistent way to burn a mon.

Before USM, Larvesta found itself in a bad position due to the lack of reliable hazard removal. After the meta shift because of USM introducing new toys, defog became a popular way to remove hazards reliably. Both the popular defoggers: Wingull and Snivy synergizes well with Larvesta. Larvesta checks fat mons like Spritzee, Ferroseed, Pawniard, and Grimer-Alola for Wingull, while Wingull helps with Larvesta’s water weakness. Snivy also helps with its water weakness as well as checking rock-types, and Larvesta helps with Ferroseed, Foongus, Pawniard, and Grimer-Alola.

Offensively Larvesta is difficult to beat due to the fact that fire is a great type and it can just u-turn out on the resisted switch. Flare blitz + u-turn gives it a perfect coverage. Although it doesn’t invest into attack, flare blitz off a 15 attack Larvesta is not something you can mess around. While defensively Larvesta checks most of the physically offensive mons and weaker special mons.

Snivy and Pawniard becoming more popular, and walling the main fighters: acroless or non-z-bounce Mienfoo and Timburr brings out the best of Larvesta. Also, enjoys the decrease in Staryu usage—one of its best check. Larvesta checks the ones listed before and a few other defensive mons like Foongus, Ferroseed, Snubbull, and Spritzee. It is a perfect role compressor if your team has one or two reliable hazard remover(s). Larvesta reaches 23 hp, 16 def, and 14 spdef allowing it to avoid 2hkos from Pawniard and Foongus when knocked off. Flame body gives a semi-reliable way to burn physical attackers and wisp is a more reliable way to spread burns.

Larvesta is in a good spot in the meta and is the best defensive fire type. Defensive Ponyta isn’t that good because it lacks resistances and is better as an offensive mon. Compared to the other A ranks, Larvesta serves a better role in the meta as a physical wall and isn’t deadweight. Additionally, Diglett hasn’t been using rock slide that much and an evioless Larvesta lives a z-eq from full.

Magby: B- -> C+

I feel like Magby has very little opportunity to setup and requires a significant amount of support to reliably sweep. While its Life Orb set is not even worth considering because of how easily it is to force out and taking stealth rock damage + lo dmg repeatedly isn’t nice at all. Magby falls short against the other fire-types since Ponyta, Torchic, Houndour, and Salandit are better offensively. And with the meta geared towards offense, it even has a more difficult time setting up, but when it does it can be a destructive force. Even at +6 Magby it mostly relies on mach punch to sweep since it fails to ohko most scarfers. Compared to other sweepers, Scraggy and Zigzagoon are more consistent in sweeping and requires similar amount of support.

Salandit: B- -> B

People are underappreciating this mon. Although Salandit has poor bulk, it has a numerous amount of resistances. Also, its typing, fire/poison, is great offensively. Salandit also has an impressive speed tier, outspeeding the common 17 speed mons, and a great special attack stat with wonderful stabs. The reason why it is better than the other B rank mons is because of its speed tier and spammable stabs. And it is better than its fire counterparts because of its resistances and poison stab. Salandit is able to run a variety of set, ranging from sub berry juice to choice scarf.

Salandit’s typing gives it several key resistances such as Fairy, Fighting, Fire, and Grass. It is able to soft check and switch into most of the higher rank mons. Salandit reliably switches into Snivy if it doesn’t run glare or hp ground and threaten it with one of its stab. It can switch into fighters predicting its fighting stab and threaten them out with a strong stab or z move. Foongus and Ferroseed gets destroyed by this as it can only cripple it with a spore or thunder wave, respectively. While completely walling the two fairy-types unless they run a coverage to hit it, which is uncommon as psychic on Spritzee isn’t that good and fire punch is preferred over earthquake on Snubbull.

While offensively, not many mons is able to switch into it due to its high special attack and having a solid speed tier. Fire blast and sludge wave is very spammable since not many mons resist it and if they do (Onix and Kabuto), they are most likely killed with its popular coverage—hp grass. Compared to the B/B- rank mons, Salandit outclasses most of the offensive mons like Houndour, Skrelp, Snover, Taillow, and Bunnelby due to its unique speed tier, high special attack, solid resistances, and great offensive typing. And Salandit’s advantage over other offensive fire is like the ones listen above, it switches into the meta and a great secondary typing.

Salandit has a wide range of sets (basically item) that are all viable. Berry juice lets it reliably switch in more and stealth rock won’t be as annoying. Z-move, either fire blast or sludge wave, Salandit nukes a check or something. Life orb lets it have immediate damage. While choice scarf outspeeds the typical 17 speed or slower scarfers, not get revenged kill by non-scarf Diglett, and outspeed +2 netrual speed Shellder. The set non-scarf Salandit runs is fire blast, sludge wave/bomb, hp grass, and flame charge (to not get rk by dig), and this lets it hit everything neutrally.

Similar to Ponyta and Torchic, Salandit abuses the fact that not many teams run reliable fire checks and if they do, Salandit can hit it hard neutrally with its poison type move. Its niche in the meta of having a unique speed tier and great offensive typing makes it better than a majority of the B/B- ranks. People should stop sleeping on this mon cause its actually good.

Skrelp: B- -> C+ or lower/unranked

There isn’t a point in running Skrelp at all since Mareanie acts as a better water/poison mon defensively and offensively it sucks due to its slow speed. It had a niche of being a great wall breaker because of its ability, adaptability, and typing defensively. However, its niche isn’t important anymore because there are better offensive water mons and offensive poison mons. It also isn’t that good in speed pass teams because np Croagunk and Spritzee performs better as the fighting resist.

Mareanie is a better Skrelp because of its ability and having reliable recovery with recover. Although, it is weaker than Skrelp it isn’t served as an offensive attacker anyways. While offensively, Corphish, Wingull, Staryu, Chinchou are all better since they have a better speed tier or can set up and sweep. Skrelp doesn’t play a role in the meta at all and should be moved down or even unranked because there isn’t a point in using it in speed pass teams or webs teams.

Tyrunt: C+ -> C or lower/unranked

What does Tyrunt even do that other mons can’t do. Tyrunt is a bad rocker, set up sweeper, and bird check. Onix, Pawniard, Mudbray are all better offensive rockers. Sturdyjuice dd Tyrunt should never be used since Dwebble and Tirtouga are better. Bulky dd is worse than Omanyte, Shellder, and solid rock Tirtouga as a sweeper. In addition, common choice scarf (Mienfoo, Pawniard, Chinchou) users outspeed and ohko it after a dd, and priority is common. Tyrunt can’t switch-in more than twice against Vullaby or Wingull and straight up loses to Doduo and Rufflet. Every set is outclassed by other mons and I really don’t see a notable niche in this mon. Its typing is bad defensively since everything can hit it neutrally or runs coverage to hit it. And offensively rock-type isn’t good when the meta has so many fighting-, water-, grass-, and ground-types while dragon-type isn’t exactly bad, but has no advantage over other typings.

Trubbish: C -> C+

trashman. Spikes is a great move and Trubbish is one of the best spiker lc. Poison typing is great because it can check fighters and Snivy. Trubbish’s ability, sticky hold, lets it become the best knock off sponge in the game and it can check Pawniard consistently due to being faster and having drain punch. Compared with the C rank mons, its consistent, provides more utility, and more splashable than them. The only downside to Trubbish is that it is easily trapped and ohko’d by Diglett and Trapinch. Trubbish also can swap its filler from drain punch to giga drain. s/o pablo for innovating giga drain trubbish, this lets it ohko Onix and hit Kabuto, Omanyte, Mudbray without giving them a boost. I really like Trubbish since it can compress multiple roles, apply pressure with spikes, and isn’t that bad in the meta compared to other spikers.

Dewpider: C- -> B/B-

With the new move that Dewpider received in USM, it became as good as Surskit as a webs setter. Dewpider benefits from setting webs itself due to its average offensive stat and great ability. While Dewpider is slow, it hits hard and has decent bulk to take hits and set up webs or fire off a liquidation/surf (surf has better rolls than scald). Although people are beginning to use defoggers to reliably remove webs off the field, webs are still relevant in the metagame. Not every single team has a hazard remover, or Snivy and/or Pawniard to abuse the webs, which is why webs are still good and shouldn’t be looked down upon. Dewpider has “two” viable sets being physical and special, they both have their benefits over each other. Unlike Surskit, Dewpider is still useful without webs due to its ability: water bubble making it a strong attacker. Each web setters have their own advantage over the others.

Dewpider gaining webs changed the meta because it made webs offense a more serious threat to teams. The addition of webs Dewpider made defog a better option over rapid spin because the mons who has defog are immune to webs. Webs still is dominant in the current meta because of ways to prevent them from removing it off the field like a ghost-type to stop rapid spin and Pawniard to threaten defoggers. Dewpider abuses webs effectively after setting them up due to its offensive ability and typing. It reaches 13 speed when invested, which is able to outspeed 19 speed mons after the speed drop. While being a web setter, Dewpider is one of the best web abuser itself. Dewpider is as strong as LO Abra and LO Gastly, two common mons on webs due to it being fast and strong.

Some calcs to show the difference in damage:
196 Atk Water Bubble Dewpider Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 12-14 (44.4 - 51.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
196 SpA Water Bubble Dewpider Surf vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 14-18 (51.8 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 12-16 (44.4 - 59.2%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
200 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 12-16 (44.4 - 59.2%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO (non-fairy Spritzee to show the difference in power with a neutral attack)

While there is an increase in defog usage, webs still has a great mon, Pawniard, that threatens the common defoggers: Wingull and Snivy. Also, as I stated before not every single team carries a defogger or spinner and webs teams punishes those team heavily. Common rapid spinner: Staryu is walled by Pumpkaboo-Super and Frillish, which are two common defensive spinblockers; however, the more common spinblocker, Gastly, on webs team is unable to switch-in due to its low bulk.

Dewpider can run a special and physical set, which makes it more difficult to check. Special tends to be better because of having better coverage, not stuck to having only 2 viable moves. The standard special set runs surf or scald, ice beam or signal beam, sticky web, and either ice beam if signal beam was chosen, hp fire to hit Ferroseed, or magic coat. Special Dewpider benefits from the meta being heavily invested into defense. While the physical set runs liquidation, leech life, sticky web, and sub or magic coat. This is walled by a majority of the meta, but one of the main reason to having physical Dewpider over special is because leech life helps it have a form of recovery and a more reliably way to beat Snivy.

Water bubble increases water moves damage by 2. This allows Dewpider to be an offensive attacker and not just a web setter like Surskit. With its defensive typing, it can switch into attacks and fire off powerful water-type moves. Resisting fighting, water, ground, and fire—cause of water bubble—it is great because it switches into a majority of the meta. Water is also a great offensive typing since not many mons like to switch into it and not many reliable resists.

Compared with the other sticky web users, Dewpider is better offensively and provides another role besides setting up webs. Surskit is the most consistent web setter due to having a higher speed tier, and Spinarak has a better defensive typing allowing it to check Foongus, fighters, and Snivy. Overall, I think that Dewpider is evenly matched with Surskit and better than Spinarak.

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My thoughts on previous nominations.

Onix: A+ -> A: Disagree

I don’t understand why people think Mudbray is an alternative to Onix. Onix and Mudbray both perform different roles, even though they both are stealth rockers. Onix with sturdyjuice lets it be a blanket check to basically everything and is the premier bird check. It is the most splashable mon since it checks key threats, sets up stealth rock reliably, has a decent speed tier, doesn’t require team support, and synergizes with everything. Its stats aren’t bad defensively and offensively, 14 attack eqs and rock blasts hurts. 3 lives Onix also has another set that isn’t even bad in this meta. Onix compresses multiple roles effectively compared to A rank mons and is equally good as the A+ rank mons, I might even say that its S worthy.

Mudbray recently received stealth rock in USM, and people are saying that it outclasses this 3 lives beast. Onix’s niche and utility is far more superior than Mudbray’s high base attack. I don’t really see why a person would use Mudbray over Onix besides on a webs team or speed pass team. Mudbray’s only niche is being able to take physical attacks decently and hit hard afterwards, while Onix can wall multiple mons due to its high base defense and has a better speed tier.

Onix main set is berry juice + sturdy. This set allows Onix to check many offensive mons that are weak to its stabs, reliably set up stealth rock, and due to its typing and defensive stats it is the best bird check in LC. Onix checks the superior birds: Vullaby and Doduo effectively and even sometimes Wingull, if sturdy is intact. Vullaby only beats Onix if it runs hp grass, which is somewhat uncommon since mix set tends to run bbird, knock, heat wave, and defog, while scarf doesn’t run it. Nasty plot runs hp grass, but this turns it into a mind game because most Onix runs endure to use its berry juice when needed. Doduo can’t kill Onix with knock + jump kick and this lets Onix set up sr for free unless you don’t have another reliable check or revenge killer. If you find out that the Doduo is the scarfer, it basically loses momentum because it lets the opposing team gain momentum by doubling or setting up rocks. Sturdyjuice also lets it beat Abra, Gastly,

Compared to other stealth rockers, Onix is by far the most splashable mon. Whenever I start off my team I usually end up with Onix as my rocker due to its advantages over Mudbray, Pawniard, and Kabuto. As stated before, Onix has a decent speed tier, requires no support and provides incredible utility, and synergizes with everything. Mudbray, Pawniard, and Kabuto does most of these things, but requires some support and subpar utility compared to Onix. People say that Onix is weak, but its physical attack isn’t even that bad. Onix has 14 attack, when invested, and firing off eqs and rock blasts, which gives it perfect coverage. Later in the game when things start getting knocked off, Onix becomes even better since it can 2hko most things that switches into it. For example, it 2hkos Mienfoo, Timburr, Foongus, and Staryu.

Onix isn’t bad at all in the current meta and has its advantages over other rockers, I don’t know why people want to drop this mon. Its able to check a majority of the meta, great bulk, decent speed tier, and the most consistent rocker. Compared with the other A ranks, Onix is more splashable and consistent.

Snivy: A -> A+: Disagree

Getting defog doesn’t warrant it to raise to A+ and it isn’t that great in the meta shift. Being an offensive hazard remover is great and all, but compared to Staryu and Wingull, Snivy is worse as an offensive hazard remover. Snivy is forced to lose a utility move that supports itself to sweep, if defog is being used on it. From previous posts, people are saying that Snivy benefitted from the meta shift; however, with bird spam being great, offensive fire- types on the rise, Foongus still being a broken, and Pawniard’s usage rising. Basically, the meta is geared towards offense and mainly mons that are faster than 17 speed. Snivy’s typing allows it to check a few things, but due to its poor bulk and decent speed tier it allows faster offensive mons to take advantage of Snivy.

Wingull and Staryu both are better offensive hazard removers because they can remove hazards safely due to a higher base speed/better speed tier. Snivy does have benefits over Wingull and Staryu, I basically covered this in Wingull’s nom and some in Staryu’s nom too. By running defog on Snivy, it loses its way to break through teams and requires more team support to clean. Knock off allows it to beat Foongus the next time it switches in and supports the team by removing opposing items, while glare helps it cripple incoming threats like Ponyta, Vullaby, and Torchic. The only “good” set in this meta is eviolite synthesis, leaf storm, hidden power, and filler (knock, glare, defog). Although defog supports the team by removing hazards, I feel that mainly knock is too good to give up. Knock is the best filler because it allows Snivy support itself to sweep or clean.

With the meta shifting from a more defensive state to an offensive meta, Snivy falls short. Snivy’s speed tier isn’t that good in an offensive meta and has poor bulk. It prefers slower and fat teams because it threatens and sweep defensive teams. While in an offensive meta, it rarely has a chance to “set up” and clean or sweep since the popular offensive mons outspeed and ohko it. Bird spam is one of the best playstyle in the meta and severally punishes Snivy teams and offensive fire-types becoming more popular also punishes teams with Snivy. Foongus and Pawniard are the main Snivy checks and with people switching their filler move to defog, it allows them to check Snivy repetitively. The offensive meta prefers mons that can hit hard and are faster than 17 speed.

Overall, I don’t think Snivy is a bad mon, but it definitely isn’t as splashable and consistent as the current A+ mons and some of the A mons. It falls short as an offensive hazard remover compared to Wingull and Staryu, has poor bulk and an average speed tier, and isn’t that good in the meta shift.

Mudbray: A- -> A: Disagree

Mudbray was/is overhyped when it received stealth rocks in USM. However, I don’t see why it should raise to A because there are better rockers and more splashable than this. Onix is a blanket check to everything and reliably sets up rocks. Pawniard supports the team with knock off and has a strong priority. Ferroseed checks offensive water types, Abra, Gastly, Snivy, and can run dual hazards. In addition, Mudbray has poor bulky without eviolite and lack of recovery if eviolite. Yea Mudbray is strong boasting itself with a base 100 attack stat, but it is outsped by everything in the meta and is usually ohkod if it doesn’t carry eviolite. Offensively Pawniard is better and as a blanket check Onix or Ferroseed is better. I don’t see a point in running Mudbray unless its on a webs team or speed pass team since everything that’s becoming popular or is popular destroys it: Staryu, Gastly, Snivy, Wingull, etc.

Drilbur: B+ -> B or lower: Agree

Drilbur used to have a niche of being an offensive rocker and spinner. Mudbray and Pawniard does a better job as an offensive rocker, while Onix and Ferroseed are more reliable. Kabuto outclasses it as a rocker and spinner due to having a better typing. Staryu, Snivy, and Wingull are better as an offensive hazard remover. The only niche that Drilbur has in this meta is serving as a “fast” scarfer. Like Mudbray, Drilbur isn’t really splashable as Onix, Staryu, Wingull, Pawniard, and Kabuto. There is no point in running Drilbur in this meta.

Hippopotas: B- -> C+ or lower: Agree

Fat ground mon: hippo. While Hippopotas is very fat, knock off is used on every team which hinders its ability to wall certain mons. The offensive nature of this meta doesn’t help it either because it barely walls anything. As a rocker it is outclassed by everything else and doesn’t serve a purpose in the meta.

Amaura: C+ -> B: Agree

Ice typing is one of the best offensive typing in the game due to lack of resists. Amaura also has a higher special attack and with blizzard, mostly everything gets 2hkod. Amaura partially benefits in the meta shift since Staryu isn’t as great, Snivy rise, offensive fire-types aren’t able to switch-in and are revenge killed by this, and basically the meta doesn’t appreciate its powerful blizzard.

Some calcs:
220+ SpA Amaura Blizzard vs. 156 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 10-13 (43.4 - 56.5%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
Note: defensive Mienfoo isn’t good in this meta
220+ SpA Amaura Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Staryu: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
220+ SpA Amaura Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Timburr: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
220+ SpA Amaura Blizzard vs. 36 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
220+ SpA Amaura Blizzard vs. 84 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 7-10 (31.8 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
220+ SpA Amaura Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ponyta: 8-9 (38 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage (2hkos w/ rocks up)
Yea Amaura is strong and pretty good in this meta.

tl;dr Staryu -> a+, Croagunk -> a/a-, Onix stay at a+, Doduo -> a+, Grimer-alola -> a-, Pawniard -> a+, Snivy stay at a, Snubbul -> a-, Mudbray stay at a-, Ponyta -> a, Torchic -> a/a+, Carvanha -> a-, Drilbur -> b or lower, Surskit -> b, Archen -> b-/c+, Pancham -> b-, Wingull -> a+/a, Hippopotas -> c+ or lower, Larvesta -> b, Magby -> c+, Salandit -> b, Skrelp -> c+, Amaura -> b, Tyrunt -> c, Trubbish -> c+

ladder hero trash out.
 
Hi i haven't posted in a long time but why the heckie is Diglett S tier? He should be A or I guess A+ tier at the most. I posted my thoughts on Diglett many years ago and I still think it stands today. Having played around with Diglett recently, he seems to be vastly underperforming in this meta compared to when I last played, and I can't feel the same niche he was filling before. Ponyta and Chinchou definitely are weaker than a few years ago which in turn makes Diglett far weaker.

Oct 7, 2014

I can however understand why Diglett is being discussed, even though I highly disagree. I can see that Diglett has the potential to give far too much value for a team, being able to trap+revenge something one or more times, and then being able to Memento on top of it whenever it's usefulness as a revenger has passed. However, I firmly believe that playing around Diglett with a well built team is within the capabilities of every remotely decent player. Keeping your mons healthy enough to keep Diglett from trapping and getting value is part of being a smart player. Keeping yourself healthy enough to not be one shot for free by the opposing laner in MOBAs, being aware of burst potential in Hearthstone, and understanding how pressuring pieces work in chess are all fairly analogous to understanding how to keep your opponent from getting free value from running Diglett.
On paper it may look like there's not much downside to running Diglett plus some sweepers that benefit from Diglett's trapping ability, but really you're creating a team that is heavily reliant on certain specific criteria. Your sweepers also now are partially dependent on Diglett to provide support, and Diglett is dependent on the 5 other Pokes to maintain momentum and force switches and trades that allow for Diglett to use its ability, and some of those 5 other Pokes may be highly dependent on Diglett (like a Zigazoon). It may sound like I'm talking out of my ass, but think about how little support a combination like Dig + Zig provides for the other 4 members of a team. Diglett isn't some magic penis head that sticks out of the ground, ensuring your sweepers have the time of their life.
If you have a specific sweeper that relies on Diglett, then that means a large portion of your win condition is using your other four mons to generate enough pressure for Diglett to create a set up for your sweeper. If your Diglett's primary purpose is to revenge kill, you're probably better off just running something that can revenge kill as well as 2HKO most of the meta. Diglett always feels stronger than he is because he always has the last say and reaps the rewards of the momentum and pressure created by the rest of your team.

I'm just pretty surprised to see Diglett being put on the same podium as Vullaby and Mienfoo. Put another way, a successful Diglett is successful as a result of a well oiled team. A successful Mienfoo or Vullaby are successful because they are strong, individual S tier Pokemon. A Mienfoo or Vullaby will almost always perform to some degree even if you lose, because they are just that strong. Diglett is far too reliant on his team to be called S tier.
 

jake

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diglett provides more support for a team than basically every other pokemon. it's unparalleled in its ability to establish end-game winning conditions for any team that it's on. diglett traps everything under the sun after a knock off, and even a ton of things before that thanks to z-earthquake. its set is also flexible enough to trap whatever your team needs trapping unless it's like a timburr or something. memento support is also insanely good when you can pick and choose exactly what you want to set up on.

if you're unimpressed by diglett then you're doing something wrong with it. i haven't ever played a game where i could say "diglett has done nothing for me", as implied by your last line
 
staryu doesn't need to drop. still a fantastic spinner + i'd argue it's even more annoying to teams now because water + ice coverage isn't very easy to deal with and it's not as much of a priority to prepare for. i still think it should be s but yeah

mudbray i think should go to A. sken used evio rocks vs me iirc which is incredibly interesting and gives it another range of possibilities. bj rocks is fantastic as always and scarf probably holds some promise. even with snivy being a defogger at the very least you get a somewhat free switch if it switches in on rocks or a coverage move.

wingull hasn't moved up yet?

torchic should move up indeed i think everyone agrees on this

spritzee should also probably move up, i haven't experimented with nasty plot but i hear it's decent? cm's good as always though.

i don't think snub should move down, it's less of a momentum sink than spritz and although it's just as easy if not easier to wear down, it's an important asset to teams.

move pump-super and ponyta up (though i'm not entirely sold on the latter), sure

and yeah i feel tired writing this up already wtf is wrong with both levi and trash

edit: and just lol at diglett not being s-rank material
 
Mudbray -> A Pretty good flying check also bc of rocks, plus it is a threat and checks/counters many thing. The only thing because why I won't move it to A+ is because it's quite predictable, since you barely see CS/RestTalk these days.

Snivy -> A+ This strong mon just got even stronger. Still has incredible offensive presence and it can now remove hazards.

Spritzee -> A Clearly best fairy type, and for a good reason. It always was great but now it can be a threat with proper support.

Snubbull -> A- Too much predictable, and every team should be ready for it. Still good, but not as much as before.

Torchic -> A/A+ Well.. this nigga changed the meta. It can work well as an offensive monster with a shit ton of speed, while also being a good bpass support. Just amazing.

Wingull -> A-/A Not really much to say about this one. Has few answers and can spam hurricane to do fuckloads of damage, while also be at a massive 19 speed. No A+ because it always uses the same moves :/.

Croagunk -> A Mudbray and Fire types going up in usage. Nuff said.

Ponyta -> A This pony is rising again and for a good reason. Like Vullaby, it's pretty unpredictable so you have to scout what set the thing is running. Speaking about the sets, they are all effective rn, making Ponyta a jack of all trades, depending of what your team needs.
 
A late nom which hopefully i can fit in before the rankings are updated:

Minccino to C+ (or C idk)
Say hello to the poor man's Aipom. What does this thing have going for it? It hits the decent 18 speed tier, has OK bulk with 55/40/40 defences, and most importantly has skill link tail slap - which means 20hp damage to just about everything (with life orb). It also has reasonable coverage with knock off, u-turn, seed bomb and aqua tail. So why only C+ ? Well, 18 speed means it gets koed by the decent 19/20 speed mons, it also has no priority (not even fake out) which means priority users can KO it or do chip damage. Annoyingly, its HP stat means it cannot reach 19hp, so it always loses 2hp per move.
Overall this means it can do a lot of damage with the right support such as hazards and/or knock off support.

Its most notable matchups are against (non scarf) mienfoo, snivy and WA Vullaby. It also does well against bulky pokemon with no reliable recovery such as alolan-Grimer
 

Fiend

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so the thing about minccino is it kinda just sucks at doing anything besides having a single strong attack. i understand wanting it ranked due to now not being a literal inferior aipom, but that's not the best of ideas considering the state of the meta and how normal types fair. in comparison, aipom has several things going for it that really gives it a massive advantage, namely the fact it hit 19 speed. it also had fake out which lets it rk anything [i think literally anything] slower than it with the appropriate move. at 19 speed, aipom is far harder to revenge kill itself without priority. aipom also had a substantial advantage with actually having some bulk. the biggest fault of aipom is having to pick its coverage move of choice. minccino is notable worse in these very impact ways, so much so using it is rather difficult [dare i say actually impossible] to justify.

even without [direct] competition, mincinno is still a pretty subpar pokemon. sure, it hits very hard but the metagame is rather unkind to it. it needs to predict to be effective, and that really blows when it takes an arm and a leg to get it in without already having the momentum advantage. one of the worst things about mincinno is how much of a glass cannon it is in a fairly offensive metagame, and just how little it truly offers outside of tail slap + knock off. it fails to even be rk answer for gastly, which almost means you might as well lose to it. this greatly reduces how freely you can click your only distinctly string attack.

doduo is not as much of a cannon, but it has actual positives and hits hard enough in this meta as is even without LO. similarly, scarf bunny hits less hard, and has a few rather problematic checks for it in the limelight, yet it can run a hard hitting scarf set which gives it a few positives as a normal-type attacker. even still, offensive normals don't exactly have a true niche in the meta so this fairly stiff competition is for a very unneeded spot, so the few things doduo/bunny/meowth/etc offer besides their power [meowth is kinda strong okay?] leave mincinno very much as a meme addition. it's almost impossible for me to think of a justification to have it on a team other than for the sheer value of using the cute furry eared attacker.

all that said, if we have teddi the wonder bear in c-, we can toss the chinchilla in the same rank since they are about as viable.
 

Altariel von Sweep

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Going to leave some opinions on some of the rises/drops that have been lately discussed.

Torchic -> A/A+ Agree, put it in A+
Just incredible. Fire/Grass coverage threatens a bunch of the tier, Baton Passing Speed Boosts and/or stats boost into bulky attacking Pokémon like Timburr and Mudbray, or setup sweepers like Rufflet (which I have been using lately) and Spritzee makes it already a big threat. Even their real counters can't do much against it, as it can escape them with Baton Pass, which also ignores Pursuit trapping due to not being a direct momentum-regaining attack. I'd put it in A+, but I believe it's not that broken and it can be still carefully played around. But knowing how popular it has become, I cannot refuse to give it A+.

Spritzee -> A Agree
Great Fighting-type check and best Vullaby answer out there, as Plasmagby said a long time ago. An essential member for the known defensive backbone that forms with Ferroseed, and with Nasty Plot addition, it's now a decent Speed Boost recipient from Torchic. Still, CM is better in my opinion, for a more solid wincon overall.

Wingull -> A-/A Agree, but rise it to A-
Wingull's typing blasts through almost all the metagame, and 19 Speed makes this more notable, outspeeding almost the whole unboosted metagame. Knock Off + U-turn is very solid utility to make its STAB combo even more threatening. Rising it higher than A- is an exageration, and mostly if it uses the same moves, though options such as Substitute Berry Juice exist.

Staryu -> A+ Disagree
Staryu hasn't become worse than Snivy after Defog's introduction to its arsenal. In fact, Staryu is a better answer to Stealth Rock users such as Onix and Ferroseed, being able to play around them more easily than Snivy, which loses against the latter. The shift of Staryu to an offensive version of it helps to threaten a lot of Pokemon thanks to its coverage, which is wider than Snivy's (Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and HP Fire). Staryu is still worthy of its place in S.

Mudbray -> A Agree
After Stealth Rock addition, Mudbray has improved its offensive pressure thanks to the residual damage of said attack, being an efficient check/counter to many common threats of the metagame. It can also act as a good Baton Pass recipient along with Torchic. Rise it.

Croagunk -> A Agree
Mudbray and Fire-types. Despite it can still act with the role compression it exerts since always, it does it in a worse way than before. Drop it.

Amaura -> B Agree
In a metagame where Snivy and Mudbray are rising in use, Ice as an offensive type can thrive, and Amaura is a clear example of it. Scarf Modest is a cool set to spam Snow Warning Blizzard, which can help to threaten them out, and with the fact of Hail breaking potential Sashes and Sturdy, it makes it an easily spammable STAB.

Snivy -> A+ Agree
Enough has been said.

Pumpkaboo-Super -> B+ Agree
Despite Defog Snivy is rising in use, Pumpkaboo-Super manages to keep as one of the best spinblockers in the tier, as well as a good Water and Ground-type check. Rise it up.

Ponyta -> A Agree
High Horsepower allows it now not only to counter Torchic but also to force it out. Despite that, its other sets have the same viability, making Ponyta able to adapt to whatever team is it in, as ThaRam pointed before.

Snubbull -> A- Disagree
Not a momentum sinker despite being easily worn down, and it's a decent check to physical stuff, mainly Fighting-types. In a more nicheish side, Eject Button helps to safely bring Diglett in, and knock out a threatening Pokémon for the team, but misses on the extra HP from Berry Juice, thus making it easier to chip away.

And now, a nomination of my own:

Mareanie -> A-
Solid Fighting-type and Fairy-type check, Haze hard stops any type of setup, from setup sweepers such as Shellder to the known Torchic, as well as countering it. Despite it doesn't like both Diglett and Mudbray running around, it still acts as a decent defensive pivot and it should be taken in mind.
 

LilyAC

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Staryu: Remain S-


There are definitely metagame trends that give Staryu a disadvantage -- namely the increased usage of Snivy and its newfound access to Defog. However, I don't believe this is enough to drop Staryu below the level of Abra and Timburr. While a few other options for hazard removal do exist, they have a variety of problems that make Staryu much better:

-Snivy may have recovery and a bit of bulk like Staryu, but it lacks Staryu's incredible Speed tier, which is key to reliable hazard removal. As a result, Snivy struggles to switch into Onix consistently, being 2HKOed by Rock Blast almost half of the time (I did the math). It is also flawed as a hazard remover in that it is pressured by Pawniard's Defiant; this is especially notable with Pawniard having become more common.

-Defog Vullaby is troubled by its Stealth Rock weakness along with its difficulty to find a moveslot. All of its moves are pretty valuable, so dropping one for Defog either makes it easily worn down (Roost), removes its ability to gain momentum (U-turn), or significantly hinders its offensive presence. To make matters worse, it often loses to common Stealth Rock users.

-It may be bulky, but Kabuto exerts very little offensive pressure, lacks recovery, and, being a prime example of role compression, doesn't fulfill its hazard removing duties reliably because it also wants to be setting Stealth Rock and killing birds.

-Wingull, being very frail, is unable to take almost any attacks, meaning it can't switch into anything and is forced to predict when using Defog. It also would rather be using Hurricane or Scald than Defog to actually make use of its great offensive potential, and, like Vullaby, Wingull loses to Stealth Rock users such as Ferroseed and Pawniard.

Staryu has none of these problems and clearly stands out as the best hazard remover. It's bulky enough to switch in when needed, beats most Stealth Rock users, has recovery to spin multiple times in a match, and is easy to fit on teams. It's not just a spinner though. The combination of its Water typing, its coverage options, and Analytic allow it to provide support in any match. It has almost zero guaranteed counters, so it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, even if it opts not to run Rapid Spin. Furthermore, it acts as a check to check to Mudbray and Fire-types, which have become more popular lately. The ability to beat Torchic is very valuable in this meta. Its Water typing is particularly valuable because there aren't many other good bulky Water-types -- in the A ranks, there are only two Water-types: Chinchou and Shellder, the former of which is slow without a Choice Scarf and vulnerable to Diglett, and the latter of which lacks special bulk and usually can't afford to switch into attacks.

Compared to the other two Pokemon ranked S-, I think Staryu is overall just as viable. Staryu is of somewhat similar offensive power to Abra, as it can choose to run a four-attack set, which makes it almost as difficult to switch into. The Life Orb variant of this has even more offensive power than Focus Sash Abra. However, it is easily trapped by Diglett, so it can opt for a four-attack Eviolite set to avoid this and still maintain decent power while notably acting as a great spinner and switch-in to many Pokemon. Abra, of course, has a higher Special Attack stat and access to Magic Guard with Focus Sash, but the additional roles that Staryu fulfils make up for this and in my opinion make Staryu just as viable as Abra. Timburr is less comparable to Staryu, but I think it is also about equally viable, mainly because it faces a huge amount of competition from Mienfoo, which most teams prefer thanks to its better Speed and momentum-generating potential.

Doduo: Remain A


On paper, Doduo seems amazing, having very few reliable switch-ins; in practice, I don't think it works so well and shouldn't rise. It has some major problems that aren't immediately obvious. For instance, it requires prediction to make full use of its offensive coverage. This is very risky for a frail Pokemon like Doduo, which can't afford to take a single hit. It can't freely spam Brave Bird because every team has at least one Flying resist, but it's risky to click Jump Kick or Knock Off because neither will safely KO the opposing Pokemon. This makes it slightly unreliable. Additionally, its Brave Bird recoil and Stealth Rock weakness is troublesome, as it's forced to run Berry Juice most of the time, which means its opportunities to come in to revenge kill are much more limited than if it were to run Life Orb. It's almost always unable to sweep because it's easily revenge killed by faster Pokemon, like Choice Scarf users, and almost any non-frail Pokemon. It's never going to be grabbing more than one KO at a time. It can run Choice Scarf to counteract this issue, but in turn, it misses out on Berry Juice recovery and fails to fully utilise its coverage even further.

It fails to meet the viability of Gastly, which is A+. Gastly has useful resistances in Grass, Fairy, and Poison, which allow it to switch into the likes of Spritzee and Foongus, making it able to switch in more often than Doduo. Gastly lacks the Stealth Rock weakness and Brave Bird recoil of Doduo, so it is able to run Life Orb without trouble, making it more powerful. Most significantly, it is more versatile, being able to run a great Will-O-Wisp + Hex set, along with Choice Scarf and Fairium Z. In comparison, Doduo is one-dimensional, only ever using two sets with very similar movesets. Also, Gastly is very unique with a completely unmatched typing, whereas Doduo competes with many other Flying-types, particularly Vullaby.

Very little has changed for Doduo. The metagame has had plenty of time to adapt to it, and this is evident from the prevalence of Onix and counters to Flying-types in general. I don't think there is any reason for it to rise.
 

Fiend

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while i don't much care for staryu in the current meta, it is very good and it staying s- isn't a bad thing. however, i don't think it is really the level of the other s- pokemon, and it very much is comparable to the a+ group.


on the other hand, doduo is absurdly strong. berry juice is fantastic and simply hits hard enough as it is. frankly, i don't know why a wallbreaker having the ability to forgo lo is contrived to be a bad thing, but you seem to imply that you cannot run lo if you wanted to anyway. this is true if you rely on doduo to switch into leaf storm or soft check foongus, but really if that is your team i just don't get it. doduo almost never needs lo unless you have a feast-or-famine style ho where just hitting 2 things hard with knock off / brave bird is enough for you to edge out the rest of the meta (and i can somewhat think of how this team would be built!), so talking about items feels like a moot point, maybe even a point in favor of doduo's viability. based off of my (still diminished) lc team building finesse, i don't fully believe doduo's ability to hit neutral targets for only 52% with its stab (as opposed to 75% vs 21/14 defense mons) is a negative, considering quick attack allows it to pick off the few things faster than it that try to switch in. almost anything slower just is eaten alive by a brave bird, which is where having bj becomes so important since you take about 40% in recoil killing slowpoke.

ferroseed, kabuto, fat tirtouga, onix, chinchou, snubbull, mudbray, and like eviolte weak armor vullaby are about all that switches into doduo without too much of an issue but they all really don't enjoy it unless they resist the attack. most of what doduo does is simply click brave bird, and use its offensive pressure to force a switch since most important pokemon are weak to flying, or can conceivably die at 60% from bb (foongus, spritzee, timburr, ferroseed, mienfoo, etc are prime examples). this means that doduo can be played fairly brainlessly most of the time, since even onix is at 75% after switching in, making it only suffice for 3 switch ins if never predicted and sr is up. then when you consider how you can somewhat reliably see when your opponent will save what is facing the wrath of a brave bird, you can click knock off or jump kick and murder their (usually only) switch in.

now to further complicate how the hell you handle doduo, look at anything that sits at 18 speed or above. elekid and the unusable voltorb are obvious one-time switch ins that are heavily dented by quick attack and generally worn down easily anyway. pretty much anything else doesn't want to handle doduo and doesn't switch in with the exception of 100% 21/14 bulk eviolite staryu. you do have choice scarf options such as pawniard, chinchou, and possibly something like mienfoo but getting these in is a bit risky. getting anything in that is faster than doduo is risky, or ruins the general ability of the mon (abra loses sash no matter what, elekid probably dies switching in or takes 44% from qa at best). so the best way to handle doduo is to predict around it, pivot like a motherfucker, or find a way to limit switch-ins and have a one time switch in. part of why i love scarf pawn so much currently is it makes checking stupid good mons like wingull, doduo, gastly, and abra so much easier with offense.

let's compare how doduo stands compared to the vr; a+ has 4 pokemon, so this actually sucks by itself for comparison sake. onix is a mediocre comparison--very spashable, reliable sr, important resists, defensively oriented with a side of explosion. croagunk is in an awkward place considering mudbary, but it is still a strong pokemon with a few tricks. sucker punch and vacuum wave make good priority options for a lot of things, fighting resist, water immunity, somewhat strong stab options, knock off. it's a glue pokemon that might be ranked a little too high but nevertheless, it is strong. foongus is a slow ugly thing--accurate sleep, regen, moderate power all help carve it a solid niche in such a metagame.

gastly is the aptest comparison, looking at its wallbreaking prowess. gastly has a bit more flexibility with its offensive sets (hex, lo, i guess that z move set). it, however, has paper for bulk in every sense, and its middling ability to switch into ground-types (and middling ability to hurt them!) makes levitate circumstantial, but this is a small positive. it hits harder than doduo with slightly less amazing stabs, but two viable stab attacks are nice. we'll call it even though gastly doesn't murder itself using shadow ball so that's nice. doduo is immune to spikes but sr is a pain, gastly mostly ignores it. gastly has hard counters, and pursuit absolutely ruins it while doduo has a few less concrete answers and only scarf pawniard (and wynaut i guess) can trap it. the most distinct point is how gastly can handle fighting types, but this is a murky issue since it has to switch into a stab against a weakened/knocked fighting type. overall, gastly has a bit more flexibility, and a bit more defensive utility, for similar offensive prowess, though since gastly's stabs lack the ability to ohko as many things in a trade-off for not dying for using them. doduo has a distinct moveset, which helps it avoid being revenge killed as easily with quick attack. gastly can hardly afford to run sucker punch which then leaves it vulnerable to being outsped and koed without a fight. the mild difference all things considered, but the defensive utility makes gastly easy to include yet only a hair or so better.

i personally consider gastly to be the best a+ pokemon, so doduo being a bit worse than it is a good sign. as it happens i don't consider doduo the best middle a pokemon, but that's because pawniard should be a+. so ignoring pawniard--which is a decent wallbreaker and utility mon with a middling switch in chance--doduo must stack up against smasher shellder, a bunch of glue/patch up mons, snivy and a snub. of these, shellder is pretty much its own thing and incomparable in anything other than effectiveness, and i wager it should be considered less effective than doduo. the glue mons are their own thing, and don't have much to hold over doduo, snubs included. so let's focus on snivy who is slower, less immediately powerful, and has very limited coverage. glare in tandem with its typing, and of course defog, give sinvy a distinct utility advantage of doduo, yet they aren't comparable as wallbreakers. snivy almost never punches a hole in a team for me anymore. at best it gets rid of half something's health and hazards and quickly dies--that's fine because that is all i need. doduo just gets a minimum of 1 ko a game, on the other hand, pushes the pokemon advantage it creates further and frequently sets up itself or a partner for a clean win.

doduo has a really bizarre distinction in that it, by itself, almost sucks. it trades 1 for 1.5 a lot of the time, which is good but the requirements of getting it on the field or even on the team are somewhat troubling and make this in a vacuum lackluster. but when you include doduo as a wallbreaker for your vullaby, or ponyta, removing a pokemon very frequently wins the game. the real trick is making it so you efficiently use doduo to get the correct damage in and prepare for something else, but because of the raw power and threat doduo possesses, i don't find this to be a troubling fact. doduo should rise as credit to its sheer strength as the 2nd best wallbreaker in the tier, being notably above the rest in terms of capability and consistency.

tl;dr doduo is great, easy to use, and consistent. not exactly as good as gastly, but it isn't worse. also pawn for a+
 
Alolan Grimer A -> A+

Alolan Grimer in my opinion is the definition of anti-meta in USUM LC. Having the ability to pursuit trap preferred hazard removal such as Staryu and Snivy, something that Diglett is unable to do well. It also has the ability to deal with huge offensive threats such as Gastly and Abra, conditioning Gastly to use Twinkle Tackle to have a chance of beating it as well as forcing Abra to use Counter which is easily played around with Fire Blast.

The ability for it to deal so easily with Psychic, Fairy and Ghost-types as well as being able to go toe to toe with Poison-types such as Foongus and Mareanie, makes it easy to open the door for Fighting-types to easily pressure teams. Already great Pokemon such as Meinfoo, Timburr and Croagunk are made better with support from Alolan Grimer.

Alolan Grimer can also be a good check to Baton Pass teams as it is bulky enough to take hits as well as pursuit trap any outgoing Torchics. It is also a good check to a lot of Water-type Pokemon such as Chinchou, Surskit, Slowpoke and Wingull, forcing them to choose a 50/50 of dying to Knock Off or being heavily injured by pursuit whilst getting off no damage. The ability to check Grass and Water-type Pokemon is huge for teams using set up Pokemon such as Omanyte, Tirtouga, Dwebble and Cloyster. The fact that Alolan Grimer has the ability to be able to trap spin blockers and deal with the checks to shell smash users is pretty huge when you think about it.

Anything that can switch in to Alolan Grimer also has the risk of losing its item via Knock Off and being Poisoned by its ability Poison Touch as well.
 

Altariel von Sweep

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Alolan Grimer can also be a good check to Baton Pass teams as it is bulky enough to take hits as well as pursuit trap any outgoing Torchics.
If you didn't notice, Torchic doesn't receive any Pursuit trap damage while using Baton Pass, unless you mean by directly switching it out, which is not the play Torchic should do against Alolan Grimer.

Besides, I prefer Alolan Grimer to stay where it is. Sure, it might be a good check to some metagame trends, as well as giving support by Pursuit trapping checks for setup sweepers (talking bout this part, I think you meant Shellder, not Cloyster), but it has a severe 4MSS, as it wants to carry Fire Blast (or Fire Punch for the extra Speed point while not Brave), Shadow Sneak, Knock Off and Pursuit. Right now, it's still good, as it's a decent check to Snivy, and one of the best counters to Abra and Gastly. I don't see any need for raising or dropping it.
 

Merritt

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Alolan Grimer A -> A+

Alolan Grimer in my opinion is the definition of anti-meta in USUM LC. Having the ability to pursuit trap preferred hazard removal such as Staryu and Snivy, something that Diglett is unable to do well. It also has the ability to deal with huge offensive threats such as Gastly and Abra, conditioning Gastly to use Twinkle Tackle to have a chance of beating it as well as forcing Abra to use Counter which is easily played around with Fire Blast.

The ability for it to deal so easily with Psychic, Fairy and Ghost-types as well as being able to go toe to toe with Poison-types such as Foongus and Mareanie, makes it easy to open the door for Fighting-types to easily pressure teams. Already great Pokemon such as Meinfoo, Timburr and Croagunk are made better with support from Alolan Grimer.
I heavily disagree with this nomination. Everything you've stated has been the case ever since the beginning of SM or at least since virtual console transfers became possible, and Grimer-A sure as hell hasn't been underranked for all that time - there was a period of time where it was A+ before it dropped.

The current meta trends actually don't favor Grimer more than they favor it. The only role where Grimer-A really shines is in its role as a pursuit trapper, all other roles it does mediocrely at best. As Pawniard has risen in relevance and effectiveness, it's become harder to fit Grimer-A on teams, wearing down its niche and splashability. Grimer also has its problem of longevity - much like Foongus it often gets used as a blanket check to stuff but unlike Foongus, Grimer-A lacks useful recovery outside Berry Juice (which heavily reduces Grimer-A's ability to switch in on Dark-types). This means that while in theory Grimer-A can take on bulky poison types like Foongus or Mareanie, in practice it tends to get worn down unlike them.

Grimer-A also suffers from minor 4MSS due to the existence of Counter Abra. While Poison-type STAB, Knock Off, and Pursuit are basically mandatory for Grimer-A's most effective role it then has to choose between Fire Blast/Punch, Shadow Sneak, or even the move I've seen a couple people try to hype with Giga Drain.

Grimer-A also suffers from the prominence of Diglett still in the meta and also the rising use of Trapinch, both of whom trap and annihilate Grimer-A, often before it even does its job. While Diglett's been seeing heavy use for a while, Trapinch's use has spiked recently which makes the meta even less friendly to Grimer-A.

Alolan Grimer can also be a good check to Baton Pass teams as it is bulky enough to take hits as well as pursuit trap any outgoing Torchics. It is also a good check to a lot of Water-type Pokemon such as Chinchou, Surskit, Slowpoke and Wingull, forcing them to choose a 50/50 of dying to Knock Off or being heavily injured by pursuit whilst getting off no damage. The ability to check Grass and Water-type Pokemon is huge for teams using set up Pokemon such as Omanyte, Tirtouga, Dwebble and Cloyster. The fact that Alolan Grimer has the ability to be able to trap spin blockers and deal with the checks to shell smash users is pretty huge when you think about it.

Anything that can switch in to Alolan Grimer also has the risk of losing its item via Knock Off and being Poisoned by its ability Poison Touch as well.
Pursuit does not trap pokemon using Baton Pass. I don't know how you don't know this if you've been using Grimer-A and using it vs Torchic.

Trapping Spinblockers isn't as relevant as it used to be, as the rising popularity of Defog once more renders them less useful.

Finally, that last bit is certainly true, but everything with Knock Off removes items from would-be checks and applying poison is only a tangential benefit at best most of the time.

I believe Grimer-A definitely should not rise, and in fact feel like it's closer to a drop to A-.
 

Shrug

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hello friends, im here with two proposals. they were both seen in my w1 quotetour game, which i lost, but that doesnt really matter for the purposes of this post. they're good pokemon.

Budew to B-. This may seem sudden or a joke, but it's neither. Budew is the best spiker in the metagame. Feel the heat of that take wash over you like you've just opened the oven. then waft in the smell of the delicious cookies that have been baking in there; those are the free spikes you get when u bring budew. it's not a pokemon that has been run a ton in high-level play, but i seriously considered bringing it to snake (a contemplation i never brought up to the lc council on my team, heh), and ive used it around in tests to good results. it has improved in this meta. the main form of hazard-clearing out rn is snivy, and that has no business switching in to budew for obvious reasons. vullaby is like fine, but it takes a ton (think like 43% with the poison chance) from sludge bomb and is pretty easily exploited when it defogs on a special attacker by allowing rocks to just pop up when the rock-type comes back in. budew is aided by its deceptive speed - run 13, everyone - allowing it to sleep timburrs aftwer coming in on the fight move, solid bulk on both sides (22/14/14) meaning you can live hella hits, and good typing meaning you can spike on the common answers to fighting types, spritzee and foongus in particular. it's better than all the dreck in C-rank, elevate my son immediately.

Tirtouga to B+. My tirt use was inspired by Fiend hound, who in his eternal quest to find a reliable torchic answer came to favor fossilized rock-types. Tyrunt sucks, but tirt is good, and im more likely to use it than kabuto for sure. The benefits to tirt are obvious: rocks, knock, and aqua jet, which threatens torchic, a mon that is broken and sucks and whose users should be sent to the gulag. i dont know how else to explain this, tirt us better than the other b rank mons and slots nicely into high-b
 
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spin is invaluable. kabuto also has an arguably more useful ability offensively as a, say, bj doduo will find it harder to deal with the threat of an impending knock than a 2HKO with what let's face is minimal chip (236 Atk Doduo Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Solid Rock Tirtouga: 7-10 (31.8 - 45.4%)). when you have something whose passivity is begging a mienfoo or timburr to come in and fire powerful attacks off at it, you wanna make sure you're getting all the utility that you can as well as an extra factor in weak armor punishing overambitious foos going for a u-turn or knock or what have you by being faster the next turn. in general, the speed boost from weak armor is useful in a lot of situations and the threat of a fast knock once you've activated it makes kabuto more difficult to play around. you could argue that tirtouga's a better bird check, but i don't even think that's true; vulla and wingull U-turn on you for days (which kabuto at least punishes harder in most situations) whereas doduo can still beat you down and you pretty much have to be at full to counter it sufficiently. you're also gonna have rocks on your side unless you invest in a defogger or spin (and staryu doesn't exactly have good synergy with tirt). while kabuto's kind of a free switch to stuff i feel like it at least gives the opponent less of a free hand than tirt does and provides more utility to the team. tirtouga is a niche meta choice and definitely not as good as kabuto RN in my opinion and it should be placed a rank below it
 
hey so when are these gonna be updated? is it just me or have these not changed since pom meta.

kabuto: b+ --> b-

kabuto is just bad. it wants to spin, set sr, and check birds all at the same time and what happens is it doesn't do any of those things well. people use it because they look at it and say hey, look how much role compression this mon offers. but there's no point compressing roles when the roles aren't even done well. also in an offensive meta like this one, kabuto is a total momentum sink. i mean i guess being able to knock things off is nice but outside of that you have zero offensive presence. it also just invites snivy in which is never good. i've heard people say you can use it without sr if you have those somewhere else on your team and i guess it can do that reasonably well but that's weak armor spin isn't a great niche considering there's stuff like star, offensive wa defog vulla, and snivy for fast hazard removal. it's just dead weight on offense, which is the best style in the meta and the only style it can really fit on (try using this thing on balance and see how fast it dies).

tirtouga: b --> b+

sorry kingler you're a cool dude but i really don't agree with you on these. tirt is good right now. first of all you've got a variety of sets which can be adapted to fit it onto any team. there's sturdy bj smash, solid rock evio smash, defensive, bj 4 attacks, etc. smash sets are really good at breaking thru teams atm, especially considering that you can choose 3 of zhb, edge, LIQUIDATION (which is a great move with a terrible name), jet, and eq which can be tailored to suit the team that its on. generally i run zhb edge jet smash. unboosted edge + jet koes snivy so that's pretty cool. defensive tirt isn't good right now, but it can fit on some teams that don't really care about grasses and appreciate the typing. it can also actually do some damage with edge unlike kabuto.

bj 4 attacks is a set i first saw used by some dude against star in a tour and it almost beat him partly due to surprise but also because it's really strong. it 2hkoes timburr on the switch and actually beats snivy with edge + knock if you still have your bj and it's not knock snivy (or glare and you don't get para'ed). there aren't a lot of rock resists in the current meta and those that there are take a lot from zhb. i usually use knock jet edge zhb but you can also go with liquidation over something, probably knock, to really threaten stuff like onix. one really nice thing that sturdy tirt sets can do is beat chic 1v1 which is really nice for teams with a major torchpass weakness. torchpass is a really threatening style in the current meta, which makes tirt all the better.

snivy: a --> s- (i'm fine with a+ too but really it's better than the a+ mons imo)

seriously this thing needs to rise asap. snivy is so good right now it's crazy. it's super splashable and with defog it can support a team while also wallbreaking/cleaning. every team needs at least two contingency plans for this mon. there's a reason why nobody's using webs and it's this mon. evio is the most common set because it's good and fits on basically any team but scarf is also really nice. now you don't have to run shit like scarf glare snivy because you can run defog storm a hidden power and knock. scarf is also really uncommon right now, i'm not sure why. once you break some sturdies and get rid of foongus and ferro you're basically good to go. the great thing about scarf is if they sack a mon you just get more boosts.

evio and bj do basically the same thing a little differently but they're also very effective. bj is better suited to more offensive teams, but it's probably a bit harder to use. also bj doesn't have the bulk to defog as reliably as evio. but overall snivy is SUPER DUPER in the current meta. it's so hard to check once it gets boosts. your best options in mid- to late-game are usually a sack and try and ko it with priority or a faster mon. you can also run this offensive pokemon with diglett to beat its checks.

staryu: s- --> a+

staryu is still really good but it's not great like it was in sm. there's not much to say that hasn't already been said so yeah this is what i think is best for it and i don't want to reinvent the wheel.

doduo: a --> a+ or s-

doduo is really easy to use and really good right now. the only real checks it has are its own recoil and onix. obviously there's bj which is super nice to minimize recoil (also sub is a really neat tech for this set to use on a switch, try it out) and can function as a cleaner/wallbreaker/pokemon that looks scary from the other side of the field (it has two fucking heads so it can probably like tear you apart even though it has no arms, wild shit). it's super splashable, it fits on just about any offense team and it's really threatening to almost any team. life orb hits insanely hard but taking all that recoil means the set is effectively limited to wallbreaking. still, it breaks basically any wall there is, so it's a very viable option for offense. scarf is a really cute set, it can pursuit trap if you really need a trapper, plus it outspeeds basically the entire meta except for +2 vulla/onix and like scarf diglett (unset). try drill peck on scarf cause it's supposed to be used as a cleaner so a lot of the time you don't really need the extra damage of brave bird as much as you need not to kill yourself hitting the opponent (everyone knows that the most skilled fighters win by breaking their opponent's hands on their face). there's also neat specialized sets like z jump kick (which doesn't really do much except ko armor onix 80% of the time after sr with z kick and quick attack--wait i forgot it also ohkoes bj ferro) or z brave bird (which is just a nuke and ohkoes bj ferro 75% of the time) if you're feeling like a wild child. you can also run this offensive pokemon with diglett to beat its checks.

gastly: a+ --> s-

gastly is basically like a special doduo but it doesn't have to worry about recoil so you can run life orb. grimer isn't really common right now and pawn loses to willohex and lo sub if you play it right. scarf gastly is also cute for the same reasons scarf duo is cute. willohex is still really good considering how much of the meta is physical right now. it's a bit more suited to balance than offense but bulky offense is really the only good playstyle in lc gens 5-7 so that's not a big deal. obviously you want to use it with stuff like glare snivy and twave snubbull and other mons that spread status for it to be maximally effective. you can use z thunder (my preferred choice) or dazzle if you want to hit grimer and pawn for really good damage. you can also run this offensive pokemon with diglett (or pinch if you're real) to beat its checks.

croagunk: a+ --> a-

look, i love lil gunk but it's just not good right now. there are too many birds and too many grounds and too many fires and it's just a bad time to be gunk. sure, there are still fighters around and pawn is good and it's a pseudocheck to snivy but that's not enough to keep gunk good. there's just too much that threatens it right now. if you are gonna use gunk though np is still probably the best set.

i would do more of these but i'm kinda burnt out and sleepy and also i can't reveal all my hot takes in one post. hope y'all have good days :]

edit: somehow pawn is a and i missed that so

pawniard: a --> a+

the rise of snivy has helped pawn a lot. but beyond that pawn's just a really nice pokemon to have. two really neat sets right now are scarf (which doesn't need much explaining but is the best pursuit user in the meta--also try low sweep on this because the calcs for everything you want to hit with brick break are basically the same, veil isn't common right now, and it's a cute tech for weak armor mons) and 14 speed max attack pawn. the idea for the latter is that you don't really need to hit 16 speed and you can run just as much bulk while doing significantly more damage. plus it means that you don't have to worry about speedties with opposing pawn which is nice. with 14 speed you also still outspeed slowfoo and easily 2hko it after you've knocked it off. basically every roll changes when you run max attack adamant, which is super nice in an offensive meta like this. yeah, there are still a bunch of fighters around, but pawn was really good in oras when there were a bunch of fighters around. it's also really nice to have priority in this meta and stab sucker punch is the strongest priority in the game.
 
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Camden

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Finally, a VR update! The VR council has tallied their votes, and here are your changes:


RISES:

A to A+
A to A+
A- to A+

A- to A
A- to A
A- to A
B to A
B- to B
B- to B

C- to B-
C to C+



DROPS:


A+ to A
A to A-
A to A-
B+ to B
B+ to B

B to B-
B+ to B-
B to B-
B- to C+

B- to C+
B- to C+
B- to C
C+ to C



Rejected Nominations:

Staryu: Staying S-
Onix: Staying A+
Doduo: Staying A
Carvanha: Staying B+
Salandit: Staying B-
Amaura: Staying C+
Deerling: Staying C


I'm a bit too drained to write explanations atm, so if you're desperate to know why something changed, you can read back in the thread, shoot us a message on PS or Discord, or include it in your next nomination/discussion post. Most of these changes should make sense based on recent trends, but people will always disagree.

As always, if I made a mistake somewhere lemme know if I'll fix it as soon as I can.
 

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